I finally found citation for this marriage: Emmanuel-Auguste-Dieudonnâe, Count of Los Cases. Le Sage's Historical, Genealogical, Chronological and Geographical Atlas: Exhibiting All the Royal Families in Europe . . . (1813). I have been unable to find an edition accessible online. taf

John There is a Pedigree called, Treaunt, De Lay Hay & Neville of Brampton, in Bakers History of Northamptonshire. VOL 1 pg 83 The Phillip you are looking for shows. Sir Phillip Nevill, of Brampton, ob. 24 Aug. 1353 (48 Edw 3.) = Sarah d. of ....ob. 12 Aug 1344 (18 Edw 3) (Daughter) Maud, d. and h.;of Brampton; and Enderby,co. Leic Scotton and Malmeton, co. Linc. Parkhall and Moreton, co. Derb and Limethyft, co. Devon. = Sir John Bussy, of Houghton, co Linc. beheaded at Bristol, and attained Hen 4. (1399) Jason

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 3:36:34 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart via wrote: > On 5/05/2016 4:54 AM, taf via wrote: > > (By the way, I am not convinced that Gisla/Guisla found in the south > > is directly equivalent to Gisela and not the name often represented as > > Willa.) > > The name Guilia occurs - notably in the family of the lords of Lluca - > and is sometimes rendered as Gisla/Guisla. > > After they were separated for consanguinity Centule of Bearn's first > wife Gisla became a Cluniac nun in Burgundy, where the name Willa was > clearly different from Gisla. Thanks for this. > Do you know what she was called there? I do not - I had never looked at these individuals until the question was raised. It was the use by the Lluca with which I was familiar, notably a suggestion by Vajay, placed in a chart without explanation, that 'Gisla' de Lluca was mother of Countess Stephanie of Burgundy, apparently because the latter named a daughter Gisela, that left me unconvinced. taf

This was a speculation or possibility on which I posted some time ago: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2010-02/1266617375 I would just like to point out that the Scrope marriage (to Rochford) is accepted in the online thesis below (p. 312): http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/2492/1/DX210326.pdf "Little is known of Ralph [Rochford's] son, Henry, despite his father having secured a prestigious marriage to a daughter of Lord Scrope, but he had no sons [sic] and on his death in 1470, his lands passed to Henry Stanhope, the husband of his daughter and heiress, Joan." However, even if we can accept that link, we should verify a later connection in the chain if the whole is to be accepted. John Nichols' _History and Antiquities of the Town and County of Leicester_, vol. 4, pt. 2, p. 1025, was the basis for the claim that Catherine Ludford (d. 1633), who married Thomas Percivall, M.D., of London, was the daughter of Anthony Ludford of Rowington, Warwickshire (the Rochford-Stanhope descendant) by his wife Mary, daughter of Simon Pope of Oxfordshire. However, the London marriage licenses from 1560 showed Anthony Ludford marrying Mary Pope, WIDOW. https://books.google.com/books?id=i6wKAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA21&dq=%22anthony+ludford%22&lr=&cd=4#v=onepage&q=%22anthony%20ludford%22&f=false The Buckinghamshire Visitation of 1634 shows a Simon Pope of Oxfordshire with a daughter, ____, married to "Dr. Percivall." https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015039595502;view=1up;seq=31 Is it possible that the wife of Dr. Thomas Percival was a daughter of Mary Pope, widow of Simon Pope, by her first (i.e., Pope), rather than second (i.e., Ludford), husband? If so, the Scrope-Rochford-Stanhope-Skeffington-Ludford descent of Anthony Ludford would be irrelevant.

Hi John I show Maud's parents as a Sir Robert son of Sir Philip and Isabel de Beaumont. Sir Robert marrying Joan Deincourt heiress of Sir Roger D. and Maud Bugge. I only have secondary references: Rosie Bevan, A Study of A Medieval Knightly Family: The Longfords of Derbyshire, Part 1, Foundations, Vol. 1, Number 4, July 2004, pps 211-231. Robert Thoroton, History of Nottinghamshire, Volume 1, London, 1797, p 360. And some of the information conflicts. I have not looked for any primary doc. so what I currently have may well be wrong. Doug Smith The Sir Robert I have did have an older brother Philip (I think) Sorry I don't have more here.

Dear all, I have been searching in vain for a pedigree of the Nevilles of Scotton in the 14th century. The account in Complete Peerage, vol. 9, pp. 476-8 ends with Robert de Neville who founded a chantry in Scotton in 1294. Robert de Neville died about 1316 and was succeeded by his son Philip, and he by his son Philip. Was there another Philip after these? The last male heir if the Nevilles was a Philip de Neville who left a daughter and heiress Maud, successively wife of Sir William Cantelou (murdered at Scotton, 31 March 1375), Sir Thomas de Kydale (died before 30 November 1381) and Sir John Bussy (executed at Bristol on 29 July 1399). Maud died before June 1386 when Sir John Bussy was married to Mary, widow of John de Multon of Frampton (died in Prussia, 18 August 1368), and Ralph Daubeney of South Ingleby, South Petherton, etc. [this marriage is not shown in Complete Peerage] who died after December 1378. Does anyone know when the last Philip Neville died and who he married? Regards, John

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 5:05:28 AM UTC-7, Peter Jenkins wrote: > > Gisela de Béarn (1225-1278) daughter of Count Centulle of Bearn and > Beatrix of Carcassone I don't think this person existed, as described. In the 13th century there were viscounts of Bearn, but not counts. They did sometimes call themselves counts, but the name Centule was not used by the viscounts at this time, the title having passed to a different family. I wonder if this isn't a false rendering of the 11th century viscount Centule (V), who married first Gisla (? of Gascony) and second, Beatrix, granddaughter of Roger, Count of Carcasonne, heiress of Bigorre. (By the way, I am not convinced that Gisla/Guisla found in the south is directly equivalent to Gisela and not the name often represented as Willa.) Indeed, one version I have found online follows the Viscounts down to Gaston IV, son of this Centule V. In reality, the son of this Gaston IV was Centule VI, who died without issue, and the title passed through the younger Centule's sister to a different family. The pedigree, though, rechristens this son Count Centule III, making him father of Gaston III, father of Centule (called IV), father of Gisela. Gaston III, though, was the name of the father of the above Viscount Centule (V). It looks like someone needed to fill in some space and so just duplicated several generations to span the gap, introducing the same Centule V of the 11th century back into the pedigree as this father of Gisela. > I have found numerous pages where it is stated she married Diwisch II of > STERNBERG in Bohemia. But only web pages. I have not found them in all of Google Books, not even in sloppy pseudo-genealogies there. I failed to find anything that would lead to a real source as opposed to the internet genealogy echo chamber. > This seems unlikely to me on the basis of geography and no affiliation > between her region of Bearn in the Pyrenees Mountains in far Southern > France and his of Bohemia. There are plenty of reasons to reject this, but such long-distance connections did occasionally happen. In the 12th century the daughter of Polish duke married the king of Leon/Castile and the Count of Provence and was then engaged to the Count of Toulouse. taf

First post so be gentle ! Gisela de Béarn (1225-1278) daughter of Count Centulle of Bearn and Beatrix of Carcassone I have found numerous pages where it is stated she married Diwisch II of STERNBERG in Bohemia. This seems unlikely to me on the basis of geography and no affiliation between her region of Bearn in the Pyrenees Mountains in far Southern France and his of Bohemia. Is this an error or can someone point me to proof. Thanks in advance.

Hello all. My ancestor John Weaver married Anne Starkey in 1754 in Bromyard, Herefordshire. My Weaver ancestors lived in the parishes of Ocle Pychard, Little Cowarne, and Weobley in that county. Would they be mentioned in the Visitation of Herefordshire, 1569, mentioned in the below posting? Darrel Hockley From: alden via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Gilbert Bohun and Marguerite Wastneys of Shropshire On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 5:34:43 PM UTC-4, brotherly...@gmail.com wrote: > Robert Cooke's "Visitation of London" (1568) makes reference (page 35) in its genealogy of the Weaver family to "Joane da. and heyre of Gilbert Bohun of Shropshier & of Margaret his wife da. & heyre of Tho. Wastneys of Shropshier Esq." > > A search of the Visitation of Shropshire turned up no mention of these Bohuns or Wastneys.  Does anyone know who they were -- genealogically speaking? I believe they are also in the Visitation of Herefordshire, 1569, ed. F. W. Weaver, (1886), p 99. I have not seen proof of Gilbert's ancestry... Doug Smith ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter, Many thanks for your time and valuable insight. It have learned a considerable amount and it has clarified the issues discussed. Your contribution and assistance is certainly appreciated. Cheers, Pete

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:08:42 PM UTC-7, Darrel Hockley via wrote: > Hello all. My ancestor John Weaver married Anne Starkey in 1754 in > Bromyard, Herefordshire. My Weaver ancestors lived in the parishes > of Ocle Pychard, Little Cowarne, and Weobley in that county. > > Would they be mentioned in the Visitation of Herefordshire, 1569, > mentioned in the below posting? In a curious coincidence, the pedigree cited in the 1569 visitation in the earlier post is of a Weaver family (of Presteign), but given that it was prepared in 1569, it does not have information on a couple that married almost 200 years later. taf

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 1:56:22 PM UTC-7, D. Spencer Hines wrote: > So, George Gordon BYRON 6th Lord Byron & Jane AUSTEN are allegedly 6th > cousins, once removed [as well as 8th, 10th, 12th, 13th, 14th, etc., > cousins, by other common ancestors]: Not 6th cousins, Spencer, as Jane Austen doesn't descend from Sir Andrew Noel - see below. > * Sir Andrew Noel MP > (Cir 1558-1607) > * Mabel Harington > (Cir 1560-1603) > | > ---------------------------------------- > | | > | | > * Edward Noel 2nd Viscount Campden William Eure 4th Baron Eure > (1582-1643) (Cir 1579-1646) > Honourable Juliana Hicks * Lucy Noel > ( -1680) (Cir 1580-1615) > | | > | | > Sir John Chaworth 2nd Viscount Chaworth Sir William Howard of Naworth > (Cir 1608-1644) (Cir 1603-1644) > * Elizabeth Noel * Mary Eure > (1610-1633) (Cir 1602-1638) > | | > | | > William Byron 3rd Lord Byron of Rochdale Jonathan Atkins of Brightling, > Sussex > (1636-1695) (1631- ) > * Elizabeth Penelope Chaworth Baroness Rochdale * Mary Howard > (Cir 1632-1683) ( -1660) > Married 1660 The Byron line thru Chaworth to Noel is correct. Mary Howard, b. c.1622/3 (her parents were married in 1621), eldest daughter of Sir William Howard of Naworth Castle and Mary Eure, married (settlement 17 Nov.) 1642, as his 1st wife, Sir Jonathan Atkins of Grimthorpe Park, Great Givendale, Yorkshire. Mary was bur. 9 Apr. 1660 St Ethelburga Church, Great Givendale. Sir Jonathan d. 8 Jan. 1702 Grimthorpe Park, at the age of 99, per his M.I. in Great Givendale Church. Sir Jonathan and Mary had issue, and are ancestors of the Atkins family of Firville, co. Cork. It's chronologically impossible for this couple to have been the grandparents of John Austen b. 1665. > | | > * William Byron 4th Baron Byron of Rochdale John Austen III of Broadford and > Grovehurst > (1670-1736) (Cir 1629-1705) > Honourable Frances Berkeley * Jane Atkins > (1704-1757) (1638-1686) > Married 1720 Doug Smith pointed out upthread the discrepancy with Jane Atkins born in 1638. Jane, dau. of John Atkins of Brightling, Sussex, was bap. 22 Jan. 1638 St Thomas Church, Brightling. The attempt to make John Atkins of Brightling into Sir Jonathan Atkins of Grimthorpe Park seems to have originated with Jane Austen's nephews, as genealogist Ronald Dunning explains: "Jonathan Atkins and Mary Howard were categorically not the parents of Jane Austen's ancestor Jane Atkins, although many would have it. Jane Austen's nephews the Austen-Leighs made this claim, but it is incorrect. Her gravestone styles her as daughter of John Atkins of Brightling, Sussex, and her baptismal record is in the parish register for Brighling, listing her father John (but not naming her mother). The Sussex County archivists insist that there is no record that associates Sir Jonathan Atkins with Brightling." http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=janeausten&id=I63 > | | > * Vice Admiral John Byron * John Austen IV > (1723-1786) (1665-1704) > Sophia Trevannion Elizabeth Weller > (Cir 1729-1790) (1671-1721) > Married 8 Sep 1748 > | | > | | > * Captain John Byron British Army * William Austen of Tonbridge > (1756-1791) (1701-1737) > Katherine Gordon 13th Laird of Gight Rebecca Hampson > (Cir 1765-1811) (Cir 1696-1733) > Married 13 May 1785 > | | > | | > * George Gordon Byron 6th Lord Byron * The Reverend George Austen of > Steventon > (1788-1824) (1731-1805) > Cassandra Leigh > (1739-1827) > Married 26 Apr 1764 > | > | > * Jane Austen > (1775-1817) The subsequent generations for both lines are correct. Hope this helps! Cheers, -----Brad

Thanks, John Has anyone run into Simon Peverel before? I don't seem to have him on my radar. Best, Monica On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 4:14 PM, John Watson via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 14:09:16 UTC+1, mk via wrote: > > Does anyone know who Eleanor was? She is supposed to have married Robert > de > > Brus ca 1296 and Sir Richard Waleys ca 1306. > > > > BHO says Eleanor had a daughter named Alice (not indicated by which > > husband) who married Edmund Peverel and this same daughter was sister of > > Walter Langton, Bishop of Coventry (son of Simon Peverel?) > > > > Is this correct and if so, what connection are they to the Offords of > > Huntingdonshire? Why did John Offord have custody of the heir of Edmund > > Peverel, John ca 1331? > > > > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hunts/vol2/pp322-327 > > > > best > > > > Monica > > Hi Monica, > > The VCH article on Offard Darcy is confused. Walter Langton, bishop of > Coventry and Lichfield (d. 1321) was, by his own account, the son of Simon > Peverel (d. in or before 1304) and Amicia (d. in or before 1297); he was > the elder brother of Sir Robert Peverel [ODNB]. Sir Robert Peverel married > Alice and was the father of Edmund Peverel. > > Eleanor, second wife of Robert Brus VI, had a daughter named Alice by her > second husband Richard le Waleys. Alice wife of Robert Peverel and Alice > daughter of Richard le Waleys were different people. > > Regards. > John > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 5:34:43 PM UTC-4, brotherly...@gmail.com wrote: > Robert Cooke's "Visitation of London" (1568) makes reference (page 35) in its genealogy of the Weaver family to "Joane da. and heyre of Gilbert Bohun of Shropshier & of Margaret his wife da. & heyre of Tho. Wastneys of Shropshier Esq." > > A search of the Visitation of Shropshire turned up no mention of these Bohuns or Wastneys. Does anyone know who they were -- genealogically speaking? I believe they are also in the Visitation of Herefordshire, 1569, ed. F. W. Weaver, (1886), p 99. I have not seen proof of Gilbert's ancestry... Doug Smith

Robert Cooke's "Visitation of London" (1568) makes reference (page 35) in its genealogy of the Weaver family to "Joane da. and heyre of Gilbert Bohun of Shropshier & of Margaret his wife da. & heyre of Tho. Wastneys of Shropshier Esq." A search of the Visitation of Shropshire turned up no mention of these Bohuns or Wastneys. Does anyone know who they were -- genealogically speaking?

On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 14:09:16 UTC+1, mk via wrote: > Does anyone know who Eleanor was? She is supposed to have married Robert de > Brus ca 1296 and Sir Richard Waleys ca 1306. > > BHO says Eleanor had a daughter named Alice (not indicated by which > husband) who married Edmund Peverel and this same daughter was sister of > Walter Langton, Bishop of Coventry (son of Simon Peverel?) > > Is this correct and if so, what connection are they to the Offords of > Huntingdonshire? Why did John Offord have custody of the heir of Edmund > Peverel, John ca 1331? > > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hunts/vol2/pp322-327 > > best > > Monica Hi Monica, The VCH article on Offard Darcy is confused. Walter Langton, bishop of Coventry and Lichfield (d. 1321) was, by his own account, the son of Simon Peverel (d. in or before 1304) and Amicia (d. in or before 1297); he was the elder brother of Sir Robert Peverel [ODNB]. Sir Robert Peverel married Alice and was the father of Edmund Peverel. Eleanor, second wife of Robert Brus VI, had a daughter named Alice by her second husband Richard le Waleys. Alice wife of Robert Peverel and Alice daughter of Richard le Waleys were different people. Regards. John

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 9:52:32 AM UTC-4, Matt A wrote: > On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:58:07 AM UTC-4, al...@mindspring.com wrote: > > One hypothesis to investigate would be that son Thomas is the Thomas Reade of Wisbech who m. Anne Yelverton and had a daughter Katherine married to Thomas Hatcher (Metcalfe, Visitation of Lincolnshire, 1562/4, p 61.) > > > > Just an idea.. > > > > Doug Smith > > Isn't this couple ancestral to Col. George Reade, the emigrant to Virginia and ancestor of George Washington? If I recall correctly, then at least Col. George's ancestors came from Norfolk. > > -Matt A As far as i know that George Reade is from a Hampshire family, ref: AAP, p 274. Leo van de Pas at http://www.genealogics.org. TAG 51 (1975): 167-171. Meyer & Dorman, Adventurers of Purse and Person (1987): 417-431. FMG Vol. V, pps 65-76. 'Parishes: Linkenholt', A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 4 (1911), pp. 324-325. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=56820 Date accessed: 14 June 2013. Doug Smith

Does anyone know who Eleanor was? She is supposed to have married Robert de Brus ca 1296 and Sir Richard Waleys ca 1306. BHO says Eleanor had a daughter named Alice (not indicated by which husband) who married Edmund Peverel and this same daughter was sister of Walter Langton, Bishop of Coventry (son of Simon Peverel?) Is this correct and if so, what connection are they to the Offords of Huntingdonshire? Why did John Offord have custody of the heir of Edmund Peverel, John ca 1331? http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hunts/vol2/pp322-327 best Monica

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 5:58:07 AM UTC-7, al...@mindspring.com wrote: > One hypothesis to investigate would be that son Thomas is the Thomas Reade of Wisbech who m. Anne Yelverton and had a daughter Katherine married to Thomas Hatcher (Metcalfe, Visitation of Lincolnshire, 1562/4, p 61.) > > Just an idea.. > > Doug Smith Thanks, Doug. This sounds promising. I had looked at this Thomas who married Ann Yelverton before, but could not find any evidence that could connect him to my ancestor Katherine.

In alt.talk.royalty D. Spencer Hines <d_spencerhines@america.com> wrote: > Again, just bald assertions -- no proof. The FACT that appointments were NOT made is more than a "bald assertion" and demands for "proof" are ridiculous. > The more important issue -- if, as a hypothetical, what you say were to be > scrupulously accurate -- is WHY the Queen is supposedly leaving the Garter > positions vacant. That's something to discuss. It was alleged elsewhere that appointments will be made later, according to one of the Pursuivants Extraordinary...perhaps the 90th birthday year will be an excuse for the appointments to be made in the Birthday Honours,though that would cut very close to the traditional investiture of the year's new Companions. > Get Real... > > ...And learn how to make a newsworthy post. > > Who, What, When, Where, Why & How. > > Elementary, My Dear Epstein... > > DSH > > Exitus Acta Probat > > "Louis Epstein" wrote in message news:ng5gps$kgm$1@reader1.panix.com... > > In alt.talk.royalty D. Spencer Hines <d_spencerhines@america.com> wrote: > >> Let's see some scholarly proof for your sack of unsubstantiated >> assertions - or substitute a more earthy word of your choice. >> >> Facts, quotations, sources and citations -- and hypothetical rationales. >> >> ...Otherwise you are just bloviating. >> >> DSH > > You're being ridiculous. > It is clearly documented that the announcements of new Companions > of the Garter have as a rule been made on April 23rd since the 1960s, > and no such announcement was made this year or last. > There are three vacancies in the Order,the most recent by the > death of the late Duke of Wellington at the end of 2014. > >> "Louis Epstein" wrote in message news:nfm3l5$1dv$2@reader1.panix.com... >> >> In alt.talk.royalty D. Spencer Hines <d_spencerhines@america.com> wrote: >> >>> Interesting... >>> >>> ...If indeed true. >> >> And how would it not be true? >> No announcement of new Knights was made on the 23rd. >> >>> DSH >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: Louis Epstein >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 5:51 AM >>> Newsgroups: alt.talk.royalty >>> >>> Subject: Days Without Knights! >>> >>> Since the 1960s the vacancies among the Companions of the Most Noble >>> Order >>> of the Garter have been filled by announcements made on St. George's Day, >>> April 23rd. >>> >>> Since 2014 there have been three vacancies. >>> >>> In 2015 and now again in 2016...no announcements! >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>-=-=- >>>The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, >>>at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. > >