Hi John and Jason: from J E E S Sharp and A E Stamp, 'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Edward II, File 60', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Volume 6, Edward II (London, 1910), pp. 74-86. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol6/pp74-86 [accessed 9 May 2016]. PETER DE PERCY. Writ, 4 February, 11 Edward II. [YORK.] Inq. Wednesday 25 April, 11 Edward II. Kernetby. The manor, held in fee tail to the said Peter and Isabel his wife and the heirs of their bodies, of Sir Henry de Percy by homage and suit of court at the manor of Topclyf, rendering yearly to Sir Robert de Percy, father of the said Peter, 80l. for the life of the said Robert. Quarrom Percy. The manor, sometime held of the king in chief by service of finding an armed serjeant in the king's wars for forty days at his own costs, and doing suit at the county (court) of York; but by the king's licence the said Peter demised the same to the said Robert his father for life. And the said Peter died seised of no other lands in the East Riding. His daughters, Eustacia (Wstancia) aged 4, and Joan aged 2, are his next heirs. Writ of certiorari super vero valore, concerning lands &c., as well held in dower or otherwise for life of the inheritance of the said Peter's daughter and heir, as in the king's hand, 11 October, 14 Edward II. [YORK.] Extent. Thursday after St. Martin in the Winter, 14 Edward II. Kernetby. The manor is held by Isabel late the wife of the said Peter in villenage, of the inheritance of Eustacia his daughter and heir, of Henry son and heir of Henry de Perci by knight's service. Ilkele. The manor is held for life by the said Isabel, of the said inheritance, of the said Henry by knight's service. Wharrum Perci. The manor is held for life by Robert de Perci, of the said inheritance, of the king in chief by service of finding an armed serjeant in the king's wars in England at his own costs. Boulton Perci. The manor is held for life by Isabel late the wife of John de Vesci, of the said inheritance, service unspecified. Skoreby. The manor with certain lands &c. in Stamford Bridge (Ponte Bello), is held for life by the said Isabel, tenure unspecified. Sutton upon Derwent. The manor was held by the said Peter whose heiress is the said Eustacia, tenure unspecified. Writ of plenius certiorari to the escheator to enquire whether the said Peter died seised of other lands &c. not mentioned in the inquisition previously made, 16 August, 1 Edward III. YORK. Inq. Sunday the morrow of the Decollation of St. John the Baptist, 1 Edward III. (defaced.) Wharrom Percy. The manor with the advowson of the church was sometime held by Robert de Percy, who gave it to Peter his son and his heirs for ever, and he demised it to the said Robert for life with reversion to himself and his heirs. Ilkele. The manor and town, 12s. rent in Sutton upon Derwent from a messuage and 12a. land which Peter de Steynford sometime held for life, and 24s. rent in Stamford Bridge from lands which John le Clerc of Ponte Belli sometime held, were sometime held by Peter de Percy, who gave them to Isabel daughter of William de Ergham, knight, for life, who now holds them, with reversion to the said Peter and his heirs. Boulton Percy and Scorreby. The manors, with certain lands &c. in Stamford Bridge were sometime held by Robert de Percy, who demised them to Isabel de Vescy for her life, who still holds them, with reversion to the said Peter and his heirs. Sutton upon Derwent. The manor with certain tenements in Cathewait and Kyngeston upon Hull, and 10l. rent in the city of York, were held by the said Peter by the gift of Robert his father. The manor and town of Ilkele are held of Henry de Percy by service of 24s. yearly; the 12s. rent in Sutton are held of the said Henry and of Peter de Malo Lacu as parcel of the manor of Sutton by knight's service; and the 24s. rent in Stamford Bridge are held of the said Henry by knight's service. The manors of Boulton Percy and Scorreby, with the lands in Stamford Bridge, are held of the said Henry by knight's service. The manor of Sutton with tenements in Cathewait, is held of the said Henry and of Peter de Malo Lacu by knight's service. The tenements in Kyngeston upon Hull are held of Gilbert de Aton, service unknown. The 10l. rent in the city of York are held of the king in free burgage. After the death of the said Peter 12 years ago, Isabel late his wife and Eustacia his daughter and heir, then under age, entered upon the manor of Sutton and tenements in Cathewait, as the right of the said Eustacia and held them peacefully for a quarter of a year, and afterwards Robert de Percy intruded upon the said manor &c. and held them for six years, and after his death Beatrice late his wife held them for five years three quarters and still holds them. Joan, sometime the daughter of the said Peter and sister of the said Eustacia, died and was buried at Grymesby three years ago and more. The said Robert also intruded upon the tenements in Kyngeston upon Hull, held them for two years and then gave them for a debt to William Gra of York, who stills holds them, until he should have levied the debt. He also intruded upon the said rents in the city of York, received them for two years and similarly granted them to Thomas de Horneby and Katherine his wife for a debt, who received the same for six years, and after the death of the said Thomas the said Katherine received the same, and still receives them. C. Edw. II. File 60. (15.) Doug Smith

 I have just found out that Sir George Howard, a member of the Courts of the Tudor rulers between roughly 1540 and his death, died in or after 1591 rather than in about 1580 as most historians have recorded. In the topic "Memorials of Kidbrooke, Co. Kent" by E.H.W. Dunk on page 216 in "The Reliquary Quarterly Archaeological Journal And Review. Edited by Llewellynn Jewitt, FSA. Vol. XIV, 1873-74. London, Bemose & Sons, is mention that the manor of Kidbrooke,  once was part of the Convent of St. Mary Overy until 1539 when it became Crown property. "In 4 and 5 Philip and Mary, a lease of the manor was granted to Thomas Newporte at the yearly rent of £10. In the following reign it was demised in reversion, with divers lands in other counties, to Sir George Howard, Knt., Master of the Armoury (Patent Roll, 13 Elizabeth, April 26), by whom it was held until 1591, when it was let to Bryan Annesley, of Lee, and his daughters Christian and Cordelia for theirs lives." So if there was a Will for Sir George Howard, it would have been proved in 1591 or 1592 I would think. Darrel Hockley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrel Hockley via" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> To: "Gen-medieval" <gen-medieval-l@rootsweb.com>; <howard-l@rootsweb.com> Cc: <lewgriffin@cox.net>; "David Jay Webber" <jaywebber@cox.net> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 7:42 AM Subject: My theory on the origins of various New England Howard families > In my research on my Howard ancestors, I have discovered that various > different Howard families who settled in New England and Virginia in the > 1600s have stories of their being descended from the Dukes of Norfolk. I > have a theory that they may have descended from Henry Howard of Lambeth > (c. 1510 to after 1542), eldest son of Lord Edmund Howard and Joyce > Culpepper, and his wife Ann. > From "The House of Howard", by Gerald Brenan & Edward Phillips Statham, > Vol.I, (1907) London, the Authors say thus concerning Henry and Ann Howard > on page 283: > "What eventually became of this pair, or whether they left any children, > is at present unknown, nor can we penetrate the reasons why Henry Howard's > marriage and career at Court should have been suppressed by Lilly, Mr. > Howard of Corby, and other chroniclers in the confidence of the heads of > the family. > "All great houses have their secrets; and there is something strangely > suspicious about the received accounts of Katharine Howard's brothers, all > of whom are said to have died without issue. It is by no means improbable > that the Howards, Earls of Wicklow, or some other line of Howards whose > ancestry is now in doubt, may spring from Henry Howard of Lambeth and his > wife Ann." > Henry Howard is thought to have married Ann (maiden name unknown) about > 1535 and so by the year 1542, when they disappeared from history, may have > had by then several young children. I believe they may have settled on > lands owned by Henry's mother's family the Culpeppers of Preston Hall, > near Aylesford in the County of Kent. > In "A Genealogical Record embracing all the known descendants in this > Country of Thomas and Susanna Howard..." by Jarvis Cutler Howard, A.M. > (1881) Hartford, Conn., USA, on page 5 I found the following: > Among the "Emigrants in the (ship) Hercules of Sandwich, John Wetherly, > master, bound for the plantation called New England, in America, with > certificates from the minister where they last dwelt of their conversion > and conformity to the order and discipline of the Church, and that they > had taken the oath of allegiance, etc., > "Thomas Hayward (Howard) of Aylesford, tailor, > "Susanna his wife, and five children. > "Their certificate is signed by William Colpepper (Culpepper), Caleb > Bancks, Edw Duke, Han. Crispe, and Franc. Froiden, clerk, and was dated > March 14, 1634." > The youngest brother of Henry Howard was Sir George Howard (c. 1519 to c. > 1580) who obtained government appointments (and resulting income) from > King Edward VI, Queen Mary I, and Queen Elizabeth I. I believe that he > became the patron of his older brother Henry and his family. In January of > 1553 George rented several houses in London from the Crown and I believe > he may have installed Henry and Ann (if they were still alive) and their > children in at least one of those houses. Over the following years George > would have obtained positions in the trades or professions or other > favourable situations for any of his nephews/nieces whether in London or > Kent or elsewhere. There is no record of George leaving a Will which is > strange to say as he was a wealthy man at his death, but if it be > discovered, it should mention who his heirs were and I believe it would > mention nephews and nieces. > Dr. Len Howard of Hawaii had collected information on my ancestor Edward > Howard who settled in Boston, MA about 1642. Some of it is wrong such as > Edward being the son of Sir Francis Howard who was born in 1628 and was > baptised in St. Margaret's Westminster. However I do believe the > information that Edward being trained in Law in London before he moved to > New England is probably correct and I believe he actually was the Edward > Howard who was baptised in St. Margaret's Westminster in the year 1616 > which would have made him age 26 years or so when he left England for > America. > Darrel Hockley > Regina, SK, Canada > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Monday, 9 May 2016 01:14:36 UTC+1, Jason Quick wrote: > > > > Dear Jason, > > My previous post thanking you for these links to the Neville of Scotton pedigree seems to have got lost on the aether. Thank you again. > > > > Best regards, > > John > > Your Welcome John. > > Here are links to the Nevill pedigree from Baker's history that I took with my phone. > > Pg 82 > https://goo.gl/photos/3GsXR7TxgNMqw2xG7 > > Pg 83 Pedigree > https://goo.gl/photos/7fe5pqCwuq63nvMf7 > > Extra .. Christopher Hatton's Book of Seals. The small pedigree has Phillip(I)de Nevill as son to Ralph de Neville(Nephew to Phillip de Aubigny)in error Combo of page 17,18 charters and Pedigree https://goo.gl/photos/ADsbmLZBhMwnN65Z8 > > Combo of Pg 23,24 Neville charters > https://goo.gl/photos/4enHf58h9uqD75YB8 > > Regards Jason Dear Jason, Thanks for those photos, much appreciated. The charters from Christopher Hatton's Book of Seals confirm something which I have long suspected: the identity of Isabel wife of Philip de Neville (III). She was, I believe, Isabel daughter of William de Erghum and widow of Peter de Percy (II) of Wharram Percy, Yorkshire. Her seal which is described on page 18, shows: Seal on tag: round 1.12 inch: red. Within a traceried trefoil opening three shields of arms meeting in a point: (i) three water bougets (Ros); (ii) a chevron between three birds; a fess of five fusils (Neville of Scotton): SIGILLVM . ISABELLE . DE. NEVILE The arms which are not identified; a chevron between three birds, are the arms of Erghum. Best Regards, John

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 5:51:16 PM UTC+12, John Watson wrote: > On Sunday, 8 May 2016 04:26:10 UTC+1, rbe...@fernside.co.nz wrote: > > On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 10:14:50 PM UTC+12, al...@mindspring.com wrote: > > > The applicable part of Rosie Bevan's article I cited earlier in this thread is: > > > > > > "In 1371 Sir Nicholas and Alice arranged to lease for 40 years, to their niece Maud Neville, sole heir of her parents, and her ill-fated first husband Sir William de Cantelupe 32 , "their purparty of Le Parkhall manor with appurtenances; saving all manner of rents, advowsons, profits of courts, their purparty of mills and the woods and pastures of their parks, and their purparty of Colebotirley, Asshouere, Chestirfeld, Aluy Wod, Grayhirstmore, Brampton Wode, and Molotgroue, of lands and tenements, rents and services in le Peek and of the reversion of Boythorp manor with appurtenances; rent, 66s. 8d. p.a., payable at the two terms of the year " 33 > > > > > > 32. Maud and her lover are said to have murdered Sir William Cantelupe in 1375 (Roskell, 1992, > > > Vol.2, pp.449-450). > > > 33. Manchester University: Crutchley Muniments CRU/18." > > > > > > She had earlier stated that Alice's sister Joan was married to Robert Neville of Scotton. > > > > > > Doug Smith > > > > I've been asked whether I can throw some light on the information about Maud de Neville in my article on the Longfords. I had reservations about the traditional pedigree and came to the conclusion that Maud de Neville must have been a daughter of Joan Deincourt. > > > > Joan Deincourt and Robert de Neville married in 1343 and Maud de Neville was married to William de Cantilupe by 1371. In the intervening 28 years it seemed chronologically unlikely that a son could have been born early enough to father a daughter married by 1371. Joan's mother, Maud Bugge, was under age in 1325 i.e. under the age of 14/15, so unlikely to have had Joan, (who I believe was the elder daughter since her sister Alice's marriage was not arranged until 1346), until around 1330-1331. This is consistent with Joan being around 12-13 upon her marriage to Robert de Neville and not likely to bear children for another few years. So any child would probably be born no earlier than 1345 and certainly no later than 1353 when Robert died. For a son Philip to have a married daughter in 1371, he would have had to father her at the age of 14, which seemed too much of a stretch. I think Philip must have been an elder brother of Robert de Neville in the light that Philip's wife Sarah died in 1344 according to Baker. If that is the case Philip certainly wasn't son of Joan Deincourt. > > > > Incidentally, the mother of the unfortunate Nicholas and William de Cantilupe was Joan, eldest daughter of Adam, Lord Welles (d. 1344/45). I didn't see this mentioned in Pederson's article. > > > > Cheers > > Rosie > > Dear Rosie, > > Nice to hear from you. What sources are you using for Robert de Neville of Scotton and Joan Deincourt? I am unable to find any contemporary references to them in any of the published calendars or feet of fines, etc. > > The exact dates of death given in Nichols' pedigree of the family seem to be derived from inquisitions, but I have been unable to find any. > > Best regards, > John Dear John The pedigrees of Neville of Brampton and Scotton seem very conflicted and the information I have comes from a variety of sources - but the dates pertaining to Robert Neville come from Baker who seemed precisely informed. Robert's date of death is consistent with his widow Joan's remarriage to Sir John Ryvel by 1356, for example. Having said that, I've not seen a contemporary reference to Robert. I'm wondering if the Lansdowne document was the source of all the information, though looking at the BL catalogue the reference number does not look quite right. The focus of my paper was on the Longfords so I did not pursue the Nevilles to any great extent. Cheers Rosie

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 10:54:36 PM UTC-3, Kathy Becker wrote: > Thank you, Taf, for the information. I clicked on the link that Bronwen supplied and it looks like that domain is for sale. The right link is: http://genealogics.org/index.php Cheers,

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 6:54:36 PM UTC-7, Kathy Becker wrote: > Thank you, Taf, for the information. I clicked on the link that Bronwen supplied and it looks like that domain is for sale. That's because it should have been genealogics.org rather than .com. taf

Thank you, Taf, for the information. I clicked on the link that Bronwen supplied and it looks like that domain is for sale.

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 3:19:29 PM UTC-7, Kathy Becker wrote: > Greetings, > As a neophyte to the wonderful world of genealogy, I am constantly > confronted with various spellings of a surname and I'm curious as > to how important the spelling actually is. Depends on whom you ask. Given that different spellings were used for the same individuals during their own lives, there is rarely a single 'right' spelling, but a failure to employ the commonly-used versions leads to internet search chaos. SOmetimes a form that is not historically correct may still be the best to use in a search, because it has become standard. > I'm asking the experts in this group if there are websites (free or > otherwise) that can be trusted (with documentation) for information > provided. Unfortunately, the level of expertise needed to provide thorough trustworthy information across the breadth of medieval Europe makes it nearly impossible that a site would be accurate for everything it tries to cover, meaning the best sites have their weak areas. I would suggest that a site with limited scope that cites original documents is most likely to be trustworthy. Bronwen suggested the Genealogics site, and you could certainly do worse, but bear in mind that it is based on secondary material - on published books, etc., rather than direct research for the most part, and so it is not free from error primarily because the cited sources themselves were incorrect. Still it is superior to the average collection of names found on most internet genealogy sites. taf

> An excellent site is genealogics.com. Thank you, Bronwen. I appreciate the help.

> > Dear Jason, > My previous post thanking you for these links to the Neville of Scotton pedigree seems to have got lost on the aether. Thank you again. > > Best regards, > John Your Welcome John. Here are links to the Nevill pedigree from Baker's history that I took with my phone. Pg 82 https://goo.gl/photos/3GsXR7TxgNMqw2xG7 Pg 83 Pedigree https://goo.gl/photos/7fe5pqCwuq63nvMf7 Extra .. Christopher Hatton's Book of Seals. The small pedigree has Phillip(I)de Nevill as son to Ralph de Neville(Nephew to Phillip de Aubigny)in error Combo of page 17,18 charters and Pedigree https://goo.gl/photos/ADsbmLZBhMwnN65Z8 Combo of Pg 23,24 Neville charters https://goo.gl/photos/4enHf58h9uqD75YB8 Regards Jason

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 3:19:29 PM UTC-7, Kathy Becker wrote: > I'm asking the experts in this group if there are websites (free or otherwise) that can be trusted (with documentation) for information provided. An excellent site is genealogics.com.

Greetings, As a neophyte to the wonderful world of genealogy, I am constantly confronted with various spellings of a surname and I'm curious as to how important the spelling actually is. Such as, Emma Meinill/Meynell/de Meynell c 1180-c 1218, dau of Robert, wife of Matthew de Hathersage. Searching the various spellings via Google often sends me down a rabbit hole, which is very annoying, and searching Ancestry dot com results in a headache. I'm trying to find out who her mother was and all I've found so far is "Isabel", last name unknown. I'm asking the experts in this group if there are websites (free or otherwise) that can be trusted (with documentation) for information provided. Thanks for any help. Kathy

one of them I meant.. Doug Smith

I believe this is her ipm: MARY WIDOW OF JOHN BUSSYE, KNIGHT 138 Writ 6 May 1406. LINCOLN. Inquisition. Boston 2 June She held in her demesne as of fee: South Ingleby, the manor, with its appurtenances in Kirkby la Thorpe, Marton, Willingham by Stow and elsewhere, of Thomas earl of Kent, by knight service, annual value £21. It was taken into the earl's hands owing to the minority of John son and heir of Maud, daughter of Mary. He held it from her death until the day of his forfeiture; then it was taken into the king's hands and held by the escheators who answered for the profits. Frampton, the manor called 'Multon Hall', with its appurtenances in Frampton, Wyberton, Kirton and Boston, of the lord of the earldom of Richmond by knight service, annual value £22. At her death it was in the hands of the keeper of the lands of Queen Anne, and he took the manor of Frampton and its profits owing to the death and the minority until the day of the king's coronation. Since then it has been held by Thomas Graa of York and his executors, by the king's grant, paying £22 at the exchequer by equal parts at Easter and Michaelmas. Miningsby and Stretton, the manors, of the honour of Bolingbroke of the duchy of Lancaster by knight service, annual value £8. The ministers of the duchy have held and taken the profits since her death. Miningsby, lands and tenements, of Lord Harrington and of Lord Fitzwalter of his manor of Skirbeck by knight service, annual value 40s. They have been in the hands of the lords since her death. Coningsby and Wood Enderby, lands and tenements, of the bishop of Carlisle in socage of his soke of Horncastle, annual value 10 marks, occupied and held until the present by Thomas Graa of York as next friend of the heir for his support. Hemingby and Goulceby, various lands, of Lord Fitzwalter by knight service of his manor of Skirbeck, annual value £8, in the hands of the lord since her death owing to the minority. Saltfleetby, lands, tenements and rents, of the earl of Richmond, service unknown, annual value £9, occupied by Thomas Graa as above. Bassingham, the manor, of the lady of Bassingham by knight service, annual value 4 marks, occupied by the lady and her executors owing to the minority. Heapham, 1 messuage and 2 bovates, of Walter Cokesey, knight, of his manor of Lea by knight service, annual value 26s.8d., occupied by him and his heirs owing to the minority. She died on 6 Feb. 1399. John, son of her daughter Maud, her next heir, is aged 21 years and more. C 137/56, no.53 Doug Smith

Hello: I recently came upon a source suggesting that a georgian queen, xosrovanush b. around 915 was of tabaristan ancestry. the site mentions a post on soc.gen.medieval as the location of this information, but provides nothing further. I am looking for when and by whom that original post was made as well as the title of the thread thank-you

Thanks for sharing your sources John. Much appreciated. I can add one additional snippet of information regarding the much married Mary. Foster, History of the Villages of Aisthorpe and Thorpe-le-Fallows (1927): 99-101 indicates that Mary Daubeney, as "lady of North Ingleby," presented to a mediety of the church of St. Denis at Kirkby by Laythorpe, Lincolnshire in 1380. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 10:10:03 PM UTC-6, John Watson wrote: > On Saturday, 7 May 2016 04:27:15 UTC+1, Douglas Richardson wrote: > > Dear John ~ > > > > Thank you for your good post. Much appreciated. > > > > I see you have identified Mary, wife of Sir Ralph Daubeney and Sir John Bussy, as previously being the wife of John de Multon, who died in Prussia, 18 August 1368. Can I ask your source for the marriage of Mary and John de Multon? > > > > Recently I located two Common Pleas lawsuits which involve Sir Ralph Daubeney and his wife, Mary. The first lawsuit establishes that Ralph and Mary were married before Trinity term 1376. > > > > l. In 1376 Ralph and his wife, Mary, sued Robert Blades in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of 10 marks. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/463, image 62f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/E3/CP40no463/aCP40no463fronts/IMG_0062.htm). > > > > 2. In 1377 Ralph and his wife, Mary, sued John del More, of Asgarby, Lincolnshire and Robert Carter in the Court of Common Pleas regarding their fee at Kirkby la Thorpe, Lincolnshire. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/466, image 63 (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT6/R2/CP40no466/466_0063.htm). > > > > I believe the fee at Kirkby la Thorpe, Lincolnshire was part of Mary's dower from her first marriage to John de Multon. If so, this information helps confirm Mary's marriage to John de Multon. > > > > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah > > Dear Douglas. > > The information on Mary's first marriage to John de Multon of Frampton comes from her inquisition post mortem. > "Mary wife of John Bussy, knight. Writ, 8 July, 22 Richard II [8 July 1398]. Lincoln, Inquisition taken at Lincoln, Tuesday before St Mark, 22 Richard II [22 April 1399]. She held the under-mentioned lands for life by the gift of John de Multon, knight, deceased, formerly her husband, ... " > Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 17, Richard II (1988), No. 1127. > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol17/pp402-417 > > The information that she was married secondly to Sir Ralph Daubney comes from another inquisition: > 28 June 1386, Inquisition post mortem of Giles Daubenay, knight. Lincoln, "South Ingelby. The manor, in Saxilby and Broxholm, with the advowson of the church of Broxholm and all other its appurtenances, held of the lord de Roos, as of his honor of his castle of Bewer, by service of 2 1/2 knight's fees and 21s. 4d. rent yearly. The manor renders to Mary wife of John Bossy, knight, formerly the wife of Ralph Daubeney, knight, Giles's father £33 6s. 8d. yearly, with a clause of entry in default of payment." > Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, vol. 16, Richard II (1974), No. 367. > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol16/pp132-135 > > Any ideas on who Mary was? > > Best regards, > John

On 08/05/2016, Ian Goddard via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: > On 08/05/16 07:04, Richard Carruthers via wrote: >> How much can one expect to learn about the family that held a manor >> from the surviving manorial rolls of its manor(s)? > > As Matt says in his reply, not much. In addition the manor may not > necessarily remain in the same family. > > Where the rolls are published the editors may, however, have done the > work for you and included such details in the introduction. > ------------------------------- Thank you for the additional pointer, Ian. Richard

On 08/05/2016, Tompkins@lists2.rootsweb.com <Tompkins@lists2.rootsweb.com> wrote: > From: Richard Carruthers via [gen-medieval@rootsweb.com] > Sent: 08 May 2016 07:04 >> >> How much can one expect to learn about the family that held a manor > from the surviving manorial rolls of its manor(s)? ________________________________________ > I'm afraid manor court rolls won't be much use for this purpose, from any > period or region. Being concerned solely with regulating the affairs of the > You would stand a slightly better chance of getting genealogical information > from the rolls of adjoining or neighbouring manors where the lord owned > smaller properties as a sub-tenant of the local manor. Here the death of > Matt Tompkins Thank you for this information Matt. I wondered why I couldn't find anything for a manor called Ernle or Earnley in the Manorial Documents Register. I had suspected this answer was the reason, but you have now confirmed it. Richard

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol4/pp208-210 Richard Andrews married Katherine Welsh. https://archive.org/stream/historyandantiq00kerrgoog#page/n55/mode/2up Ursula Andrews (their daughter) married Henry Norris of Bray Could this be your Welsh family. Kind regards

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 10:17:50 AM UTC-7, griffjo...@gmail.com wrote: > Wondering if someone can help point me in the right direction? > > The homepage for the project is http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/handle/2160/4026 > > I was looking at Marchudd 6 (D1) here http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5234/MARCHUDD%206%28D1%29_1270.png?sequence=9&isAllowed=y > > At the bottom I'm wanting to find the children of: > 15 Huw = Alice f. John Owen of Abergeie > > I tried following to the Iarddur 3 but can't seem to find them anywhere. The reference in Marchudd 6(D1) is to Iarddur 3(B1). If you enter "Iarddur 3" in the search box at the home page for the Bartrum files, you'll get this page: http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/handle/2160/4026/discover Click on "Iarddur 3" and you'll get this list of table Iarddur 3 and all its subordinate tables: http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/handle/2160/5292 The entry for Iarddur 3(B1) is at the very bottom of the list and links to this table: http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5292/IARDDUR%203%28B1%29_1029.png?sequence=6&isAllowed=y Note that Alice ferch John Owen of Abergele [sic] whom you're looking for does not actually appear on this latter table, but her parents do (check the generation numbers indicated by Bartrum in both tables).