This is Sooo interesting. I looked back at the Ezekiel Woolley Wooley lines in England. There are so many Ezekiels son of son of son that I'm sure this is where my line is connected. I only have about 90 years to figure out and connect the dots. Thank you so much for all your contributions to the list. My best, Jill J. Hernandez > On May 12, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Darrel Hockley via <woolley@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Avunculate marriage is the marriage of an uncle with his niece or an aunt with her nephew. These type of marriages were usually done to keep wealth and property within families. In England before the Reformation, a Papal Dispensation had to obtained for such a marriage to be legal. > In colonial New Jersey such marriages were declared void in 1682. However avunculate marriages were not made illegal in the neighbouring Province of New York until 1893. (Since 2014 they are once more legal in New York.) > Now knowing the above, various entries concerning the Woolley/Wooley families make sense as taken from the Trella May Hall Collection located in the Archives at the New England Historic Genealogical Society. > Edward Woolley, born 16 January 1691/62 at Shrewsbury, Monmouth County, New Jersey (some people said he was born in Rhode Island which I believe is wrong), was a son of Edward Woolley (1655 to 1729) and his wife Lydia Allen (1660 to 1742). His older sister was Elizabeth Woolley (1685 to 1723) the wife of Gabriel Stelle (de L'Estoile) (1685 to 1738) of Perth Amboy, Middlesex County, New Jersey. Elizabeth and Gabriel had a daughter named Lydia "Lida" Stelle who was born in 1709. > The younger Edward was mentioned in the Will of his father Edward Woolley dated 3 January 1728/29. However, he is not in the Will of his mother which was written on 3 November 1732. Daughter Lydia Stelle is also not named in the Will of her father Gabriel. I believe that sometime in 1729 Edward Woolley the Younger and his niece Lydia Stelle eloped (she was probably pregnant with their son Jehu/John), leaving New Jersey for Dutchess County, New York, where they married (legally) and settled there. Widow Lydia Allen Woolley and Gabriel Stelle did not approve of this marriage and that is why they cut off their respective children from any inheritance. > Children of Edward and Lydia were: > Jehu/John Woolley (1729 to 1812)William Woolley (1730 to 1817) married Elizabeth EvartsAbel Woolley (1734 to 1826) married Mary CarterLydia Valeria Woolley (1737 to 1813) married Zephaniah HowardPontius Woolley (1739 to 1814) married Content Palmer > William Woolley and his wife Elizabeth later moved to Middleton, New Jersey and I believe that it was his descendants that Dr. John E. Stillwell Avunculate marriage is the marriage of an uncle with his niece or an aunt with her nephew. These type of marriages were usually done to keep wealth and property within families. In England before the Reformation, a Papal Dispensation had to obtained for such a marriage to be legal. > In colonial New Jersey such marriages were declared void in 1682. However avunculate marriages were not made illegal in the neighbouring Province of New York until 1893. (Since 2014 they are once more legal in New York.) > Now knowing the above, various entries concerning the Woolley/Wooley families make sense as taken from the Trella May Hall Collection located in the Archives at the New England Historic Genealogical Society. > Edward Woolley, born 16 January 1691/62 at Shrewsbury, Monmouth County, New Jersey (some people said he was born in Rhode Island which I believe is wrong), was a son of Edward Woolley (1655 to 1729) and his wife Lydia Allen (1660 to 1742). His older sister was Elizabeth Woolley (1685 to 1723) the wife of Gabriel Stelle (de L'Estoile) (1685 to 1738) of Perth Amboy, Middlesex County, New Jersey. Elizabeth and Gabriel had a daughter named Lydia "Lida" Stelle who was born in 1709. > The younger Edward was mentioned in the Will of his father Edward Woolley dated 3 January 1728/29. However, he is not in the Will of his mother which was written on 3 November 1732. Daughter Lydia Stelle is also not named in the Will of her father Gabriel. I believe that sometime in 1729 Edward Woolley the Younger and his niece Lydia Stelle eloped (she was probably pregnant with their son Jehu/John), leaving New Jersey for Dutchess County, New York, where they married (legally) and settled there. Widow Lydia Allen Woolley and Gabriel Stelle did not approve of this marriage and that is why they cut off their respective children from any inheritance. > Children of Edward and Lydia were: > Jehu/John Woolley (1729 to 1812)William Woolley (1730 to 1817) married Elizabeth EvartsAbel Woolley (1734 to 1826) married Mary CarterLydia Valeria Woolley (1737 to 1813) married Zephaniah HowardPontius Woolley (1739 to 1814) married Content Palmer > William Woolley and his wife Elizabeth later moved to Middleton, New Jersey and I believe that it was his descendants that Dr. John E. Stillwell found living in New Bargain Mills, Howell township, Monmouth County, NJ in 1893. > I do not know what religion Edward Howard and his wife Lydia Steel followed. They were not Quakers as Edward's ancestors were. Lydia's branch of the Stelle/de L'Estoile family were Anglicans. Daughter Lydia Valeria and her husband Zephaniah Howard were Baptists. Son Pontius Woolley probably became a Quaker in order to marry Content Palmer who came from an Connecticut Quaker family. I do not know when Edward and Lydia died. > Some family historians say that Peter Woolley (born 1732; died unknown) whose wife was Hannah Potter, was also a son of Edward and Lydia (Stelle) Woolley. He was actually the son of Peter Woolley and his wife Mary Tilton. The elder Peter in turn was a son of William Woolley (1662 to 1718) and his wife Ann West of Shrewbury, NJ. Actually Peter Woolley (c.1695 to after 1732) was married three times. His first wife was Margaret Stelle (born 1705; died probably about 1725), the oldest sister of Lydia. His second and third wives were Martha Tilton and Mary Tilton. Young Peter moved to Dutchess County also and had a very close relationship with Abel and Pontius Woolley and with Zephaniah Howard so that made some to think he was a brother to Abel, Pontius, and Lydia Valeria. > Thus, with none of the Woolley historians knowing about Avunculate marriage - also the idea that an uncle marrying his blood niece would have filled those Victorians with dread about incest - that line of the Woolley family has not been recorded properly. > Darrel Hockley > Regina, SK, Canada > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WOOLLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone have any thoughts on Rupert Murdoch's ancestors #56 and 112, as presented by Reitwiesner and Michael Wood? 56. Nathaniel Parker Forth, b. 27 July 1744 at Ludlow, Shropshire, d. 28 April 1809 in Paris, Lord Chamberlain to King George III, Minister Plenipotentiary to the Courts of Versailles and Madrid m. (2) 25 Aug 1804 at Paris, France 57. Eliza Petrie ... and his father, 112. Capt. Samuel Forth, Sovereign of Langford, b. 1691, d. 1761 m. 113. ___________ [i.e., unknown] Searching "Captain Samuel Forth" in Google yields the following results page, with the fourth item down being a publication from the Royal Irish Academy mentioning "Photostats of two handwritten inscriptions to the memory of Captain Samuel Forth of Longford (d. 1706) and his wife Mary Forth, née Creichtoun ..." Thus, it seems Langford must really refer to Longford in Ireland. A pedigree of "Crichton of Aghalane" on p. 32 of this book shows numerous ancestors of "Maria Chreichtoun, married, 15th December 1720, to Samuel Forth, of the county of Longford." http://digital.nls.uk/histories-of-scottish-families/pageturner.cfm?id=95510909 That seems a bit early for the parents of a child born 1744, but definitely not impossible. Is there maybe an intervening generation? Maria Chreichtoun's ancestry includes two Chreichtoun/ Crichton lines, plus persons named Townley and Fairlie, at least as shown by this chart.

On Friday, October 3, 2008 at 12:12:05 PM UTC-5, Tony Hoskins wrote: > For a "Royal Bastards" application, without a copy of (for example) the > original IPM, a secondary source quoting/ abstracting/ transcribing the > IPM would be individually evaluated. This source would then be found > sufficiently substantive and probative - or not. This is a key element > as to why the RB application process is on the one hand the most > demanding and difficult of hereditary societies, but also the most fun > (assuming one finds legalistic problem analysis and solving, and > skills-enlargement, fun.) > > It's important to remember that many lineages accepted by other > societies would not stand a chance of acceptance in the RBs. Also, it is > important to note that a number of lineages included in GBR's and DR's > fine books are as yet (from the standpoint of having undergone scrutiny > by the most rigorous genealogical standards) unproved - though a number > of them, certainly, are hopeful. They await the laser-beam investigation > of the RB's approving genealogist. > > One instance of this involves Elizabeth (Alsop) (Baldwin) Fowler's > extensive royal and Magna Carta ancestry [DR, _PA_, pp. 35-7; DR, > _MCA_, pp.4-6]. Using some of the sources cited by Mr. Richardson > (however, in the original, or else in highly proximate to the event > secondary sources) as well as others I have produced myself, I am in the > process of preparing a supplemental lineage to the RBs involving my > descent from this lady - a hitherto unexamined lineage by the RBs. I am > doing so largely for the enjoyment of 1) testing the validity of the > line on my own, and 2) seeking the objective expert opinion of the RB's > approving genealogist. Once a lineage is accepted by the RBs, one can be > as firmly convinced as humanly possible that it is "proved". This is > "well worth the cost of admittance"! > > Tony Hoskins > Santa Rosa, California How would I go about getting these references you mention on the ancestry of Elizabeth (Alsop) Baldwin? She is in my family tree and I would be very interested in seeing her ancestry. Thank you!

Dear Newsgroup ~ Recently I came across two sources which name Thomas Pellet, a Whitefriar at Cambridge in 1510, as a kinsman of King Henry VII's mother, Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Richmond: 1. Underwood, “The Lady Margaret & her Cambridge Connections,” in Sixteenth Century Journal 13 (1982): 67–82 (“Her [Margaret’s] kinsman, Thomas Pellet, was supported through the agency of members of three colleges from 1502 to 1510, when he made his profession as a whitefriar, leaving no further mark on the university.”). 2. Jones, King’s Mother (1992): 280 (“Pellet, Thomas: Scholar, kinsman of Lady Margaret, maintained at Cambridge in 1502, 1502 ... In 1510 he was professed as a Whitefriar of Cambridge, at the expense of her estate.”). Can anyone identify Thomas Pellet? Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 12:31:05 PM UTC-7, Michael OHearn via wrote: > Genealogists have discovered that likely presidential candidates Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton share common descent from Joan of Gaunt and Katherine Swinford. > > http://www.infowars.com/trump-hillary-distant-cousins-say-genealogists/ > > In view of past discussion regard Plantagenet Richard's Y-DNA not matching that of alleged Beaufort Somerset cousins, is the legitimacy question of John of Gaunt still an issue? If the DNA discrepancy arose from the circumstances of John's illegitimate parentage, then we could assume that both Trump and Clinton are of bastardized descent. > > > > Sent from my iPhone This subject has been mentioned before : https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.medieval/rodham/soc.genealogy.medieval/VLKsmq_SoDA/3_Ma9vinFgAJ It's interesting that unsourced, unverified information is called 'genealogy'. Leslie

Another point brought up concerning the DNA question is that the Royals' claim to legitimacy goes back to Henry Tudor's victory in the War of Roses. Henry has other royal lines to support a claim independent of the supposed questionable Beaufort lineage. Sent from my iPhone

Thanks for the information. I have record of the Nele family and the past generations of owners at Prestwold. They weren't relevant to me only that Francis Nele was married to his second wife Jane Hall who, by her second marriage to Sir Henry Skipwith, was my ancestor. However, Francis Nele's first wife Faith Kempe of Olantigh, Kent, was the great aunt of Amy Kempe who married Jane Hall Skipwith's grandson Sir Henry Skipwith, 1st Bt's wife. The family is quite intermingled irregardless. I'll see if I can find the breakdown on Prestwold and see if the information I have goes back to the Despensers you have presented. Steve > Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 04:41:28 -0700 > Subject: Re: A 2nd wife of Thomas Le Despenser found ?? > To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com > From: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com > > Thomas le Despenser who died c. 12107, was presumably the donor to [Garendon] abbey of 10 bovates in Burton on the Wolds, Leics., of the fee of > Asketil de Berges,...' [Farrer, HKF II:58, citing Pipe Roll 12 Hen II (1166), p. 70; 22 Hen II, p. 185; and Cal. Chart. Rolls iv. 475]. > > Again, this Asketil de Berges held the Advowson of the church of Prestwold,and his alias was Anketil de Prestwald, who Farmham states the family of that name in that exact time period, bore "fretty gules" as part on said arms and as I have shown he is also the son of Hugh de Berges who was amerced a fine along with his kin Thomas Despenser in 1166 for trespass, who in the record was referred to as "Hugh de Berc"). > > Anketil de Prestwald /Berges was the father of Thomas de Prestwold who was presented in 1238 by Hugh Despenser II, to the church of Cossington. > > Robert > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is another family in Cornwall. Arundel/Arundell. Shield has 6 birds Martletts/Swallows. Still used in Sussex. Reinfred de Arundel (d. circa 1280.) Kind regards

On 11/05/2016 11:30 PM, PDeloriol via wrote: > Ahem! Titles are accepted in Republican countries. Some Republics have even > given hereditary titles to its citizens. A Republic, grosso modo, is the > negation of an absolute monarch. hereditary titles, for instance, have not > been abolished in France, nor in Germany or Austria, they just do not have > any privileges, but the State does have a specific department that > regulates them and ensures they are not mis-used or mis-appropriated. Titles of > Knighthood abound in modern Republics. > In Germany hereditary titles are not officially recognised - some people have resorted to changing their names to incorporate obsolete titles so they can go on advertising their aristocratic brand. Vulgarity is not the exclusive preserve of the common. You are carefully missing the point about Rupert Murdoch. He would be most unlikely to accept a title of honour (not that he would be offered a knighthood, much less the Garter) from a sovereign whose hereditary role as fount of honour he does not respect. Peter Stewart

Steve, further this post, I should note that Hugh de Berges is shown to be the father of Anketin de Berges who holds the church of Prestwold. Elias de Prestwald (aka: Helias de Prestwald) = Sibyl 'Elias filius Anketilli ' of Prestwald "Helias ,son of Anketil de Prestwald" Elias, the son of the aforesaid Anketin, confirmed his father's gift of the said church, together with its chapels, and 30 acres of land, in pure and perpetual alms, to the priory. Elias de Prestwold had issue two daughters who were his coheirs,Alice, the wife of John Poutrel, and Isabel, the wife of Thomas Hotoft. In the year 1254, (Elias being apparently dead) the aforesaid co-heirs and their husbands acknowledged, by a fine levied at Easter in that year, that the advowson of Prestwold church, as well as the chapels of Hoton, Cotes and Burton, was the right of the prior of Bullington, by the gift of Anketin, son of Hugh de Prestwold, the ancestor of the said Alice and Isabel, whose heirs they are. An Ivo de Prestwald, a son of Hugh de Berges II, also appears demonstrating that this family also carried some of this same names of the Despenser's (such as Elias and Ivo) who should be well known to other researches of the Despenser fmaily.

Thomas le Despenser who died c. 12107, was presumably the donor to [Garendon] abbey of 10 bovates in Burton on the Wolds, Leics., of the fee of Asketil de Berges,...' [Farrer, HKF II:58, citing Pipe Roll 12 Hen II (1166), p. 70; 22 Hen II, p. 185; and Cal. Chart. Rolls iv. 475]. Again, this Asketil de Berges held the Advowson of the church of Prestwold,and his alias was Anketil de Prestwald, who Farmham states the family of that name in that exact time period, bore "fretty gules" as part on said arms and as I have shown he is also the son of Hugh de Berges who was amerced a fine along with his kin Thomas Despenser in 1166 for trespass, who in the record was referred to as "Hugh de Berc"). Anketil de Prestwald /Berges was the father of Thomas de Prestwold who was presented in 1238 by Hugh Despenser II, to the church of Cossington. Robert

In relation to your post: I will refer you to "Prestwold and it's Hamlets in Medieval Times" By George F. Farnham, F.S.A. The Skipworths and Neles are both somewhat detailed there. Steve, you mention the Neles in your post: Extract from same above: "The family who bore the name " of Prestwold " appear to have held the manor of Prestwold in the latter part at latest of the twelfth century.arms—Sable, a chevron Or, fretty Gules, between three garbs Argent—which arms are depicted on the monument in Tugby church, erected in 1574, to the memory of Richard Nele and his son Francis Nele, leading us to infer that the Neles were descended from the family of Prestwold." The Despenser arms also bore the "fretty Gules" and we should consider them to probable kin to them. In fact, Thomas Despenser names his "Lord" of part of his land as [Ansketil de Berges, who I have identified as the Ansketil who held the Advowson of the Church of Prestwold, and this same Ansketil, who was father of the Thomas de Prestwold, who Hugh Despenser II in 1238 presented to the church of Cossington. See my other recent post re: William le Despenser and Matilda, wife of Thomas Le Despenser found in Cossington, Leisc., which bears reference to this post.

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 3:34:23 AM UTC+10, Bronwen Edwards wrote: > Could we...uh...please...revise Rupert Murdoch's line...I do not want to > be related to him. If you are related to him you are also related to his three sisters, fine people. before disowning the entire kindred you might be interested to read a bit about his late sister Helen: http://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/956607/tributes-flow-for-helen-handbury/ https://www.rmit.edu.au/research/research-institutes-centres-and-groups/research-centres/centre-for-global-research/opportunities/handbury-fellowship-program/about/ > Ditto Trump. Please... I understand he too has an admired sister, though if true I wonder how pleased she can be at present... Blood is thicker than water, but many voters are even thicker. Peter Stewart

This is an incredible find. My 11th great grandfather was Sir Henry Skipwith, 1st Bart. of Prestwold, Leicestershire and the estate came into the family by purchase of his father Sir William Skipwith from his half sister Lady Mary Digby (nee Nele) who inherited with her half sister Eleanor Nele, wife of Henry Hall of Gretford, after their childless brother Thomas Nele's death, I believe, in 1672? I have this information in my files, but not remembering off the top of my head. Mary and Thomas were the children of Francis Nele, lord of the manor of Prestwold, by his second wife Jane Hall (also Sir William Skipwith's mother by her second marriage to Sir Henry Skipwith). From records I have on the Nele family, Prestwold had been in that family for centuries so I am guessing that the Neles descend somehow from Thomas of Prestwald as indicated in Robert's message below. Can anyone else elaborate on this? Steve Riggan > Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 13:54:05 -0700 > Subject: Re: A 2nd wife of Thomas Le Despenser found ?? > To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com > From: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com > > In regards to history of the church of Cossington, we know the Hugh Despenser who died in 1238, was the Patron of the Church, and his son or brother William Despenser was the parson. > > I think it cannot be overlooked any longer that Hugh Despenser II also presents Thomas de Prestwald, from the same family I have long suspected previous to even seeing this record of being closely related to the Despenser's male line. > > "Thomas de Prestewalde is presented to the church of > Cusinton by Hugh, son of Hugh Despenser, letters of the king > having been received containing that the said Hugh in the king's > court before the justices had recovered seisin of the advowson of > the said church against Hugh, earl of Arundel, W. earl Ferrers, > the abbot of St. Severus, Roger de Sumervill and William de > Meisham by an assize of last presentation (A.D. 1239)". > > Thomas de Prestwald is the brother of Hugh de Prestwald / > Berges. > > I will provide the details for any of those interested in the line: > > Aschetill (Dispensator) alias "Aschetill of the Castle" De hiis habet Aschetillis de Castello -ii- bovatas pro . pg. 218 THE BURTON ABBEY TWELFTH CENTURY SURVEYS. He was(b. bef. 1072 d. between 1120-1126) held 2 bovates at Church-Stretton, Staffordshire in 1114, and 2 bovates at Waterfala, Staff., found in the later parts of the 2nd survey of the Burton Abbey's chartulary (1114 -1116 and 1118-1120). Also Held land at Pegsden from Ramsey Abbey in 1114 and in Coventry of the Earl of Chester. > > Hugh,son of Anschetil (Haschat), who accounted for his father's land in 1130 at Coventry (Pipe Roll, 31 Henr. I, p. 59) His brother Ivo de Alspathe was the Constable of the Honour of Skipton, and appears so in charters of [Cecily de Rumilly, the mother of Ranulf, who would later become the Earl of Chester, and who promotes Ivo to Constable of Coventry]. > > Hugh de Berges m. sister of Thurstan of Quineborough > Hugo de Berges', made a gift of 3 carucates to Garendon abbey in Burton on the Wolds, later confirmed by his son Ansketil together with his (Ansketil's) uncles Thurstan de Queniborough and Radulf[2]. This gift occurred in 1133 (year of the foundation of Garendon) or later. > In 11 Henry II (1166) Thomas Despenser was amerced a fine for trespass with his kin "Hugh de Berc"(Berges) > Hugh de Prestwald alias Hugh de Berges fls. 1176 > > Anketil de Berges, alias Anketil de Prestwald, held the advowson of the church of Prestwald. > > The name Berges probably stems from Wet-Berges, part of which lies in Barrow, Leisc. It is also corrupted to Berwes, as Hugh de Berges is also found as Hugh de Berwes in deeds. > > > Note: Ivo's de Alspathe's brother [William, son of Anschetil] is also noted in the charters of Cecily de Rumilly. > > Robert > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In regards to history of the church of Cossington, we know the Hugh Despenser who died in 1238, was the Patron of the Church, and his son or brother William Despenser was the parson. I think it cannot be overlooked any longer that Hugh Despenser II also presents Thomas de Prestwald, from the same family I have long suspected previous to even seeing this record of being closely related to the Despenser's male line. "Thomas de Prestewalde is presented to the church of Cusinton by Hugh, son of Hugh Despenser, letters of the king having been received containing that the said Hugh in the king's court before the justices had recovered seisin of the advowson of the said church against Hugh, earl of Arundel, W. earl Ferrers, the abbot of St. Severus, Roger de Sumervill and William de Meisham by an assize of last presentation (A.D. 1239)". Thomas de Prestwald is the brother of Hugh de Prestwald / Berges. I will provide the details for any of those interested in the line: Aschetill (Dispensator) alias "Aschetill of the Castle" De hiis habet Aschetillis de Castello -ii- bovatas pro . pg. 218 THE BURTON ABBEY TWELFTH CENTURY SURVEYS. He was(b. bef. 1072 d. between 1120-1126) held 2 bovates at Church-Stretton, Staffordshire in 1114, and 2 bovates at Waterfala, Staff., found in the later parts of the 2nd survey of the Burton Abbey's chartulary (1114 -1116 and 1118-1120). Also Held land at Pegsden from Ramsey Abbey in 1114 and in Coventry of the Earl of Chester. Hugh,son of Anschetil (Haschat), who accounted for his father's land in 1130 at Coventry (Pipe Roll, 31 Henr. I, p. 59) His brother Ivo de Alspathe was the Constable of the Honour of Skipton, and appears so in charters of [Cecily de Rumilly, the mother of Ranulf, who would later become the Earl of Chester, and who promotes Ivo to Constable of Coventry]. Hugh de Berges m. sister of Thurstan of Quineborough Hugo de Berges', made a gift of 3 carucates to Garendon abbey in Burton on the Wolds, later confirmed by his son Ansketil together with his (Ansketil's) uncles Thurstan de Queniborough and Radulf[2]. This gift occurred in 1133 (year of the foundation of Garendon) or later. In 11 Henry II (1166) Thomas Despenser was amerced a fine for trespass with his kin "Hugh de Berc"(Berges) Hugh de Prestwald alias Hugh de Berges fls. 1176 Anketil de Berges, alias Anketil de Prestwald, held the advowson of the church of Prestwald. The name Berges probably stems from Wet-Berges, part of which lies in Barrow, Leisc. It is also corrupted to Berwes, as Hugh de Berges is also found as Hugh de Berwes in deeds. Note: Ivo's de Alspathe's brother [William, son of Anschetil] is also noted in the charters of Cecily de Rumilly. Robert

Since I posted this querry re: William Despenser , I have found this same William Despenser to be the parson of the church of Cossington, to which Hugh Despenser was the patron. Source: From: Honours and Kt's fees Vol. 1 pg. 215, MEDIEVAL COSSINGTON , mentions the Matriculus of Hugh Welles, Cant. & York Soc., i,259 "In the Matriculus of Hugh Welles, Cant. & York Soc., i, 259, "Hugh Despenser is patron of the church of Cosington, the parson is W. Despenser. Robert

On 11/05/2016 10:37 AM, John Higgins via wrote: > A 20th-century member, Robert Heber-Percy (d. 1987) was noted (or > notorious) as the "protegé" (wink, wink) of the eccentric 14th Lord > Berners. The two of them were covered in a 2014 book by his > granddaughter Sofka Zinovieff titled "The Mad Boy, Lord Berners, My Or even as his "protégé" (sic) without the winks, though I doubt there was very much protéging involved as Robert Heber Percy (he didn't like the hyphen) was a law unto himself. Their house at Faringdon is currently on the market if any Heber relative wants to spring the many millions needed to keep it in the family. Lord Berners wrote a satirical book, *The Girls of Radcliff Hall*, about life there, making Robert one of the girls in a boarding school with himself as headmistress. Robert's wife Dorothy tried to join in the fun but was soon exiled to a cottage in the grounds. Rupert Murdoch's home life has not been nearly as amusing, though he has also been a law unto himself. Peter Stewart

As my grandmother used to say: "God gave us our relatives. Thank God we can choose our friends." On 11/05/2016, Bronwen Edwards via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Could we...uh...please...revise Rupert Murdoch's line...I do not want to be > related to him. Ditto Trump. Please... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Not the accolade of knighthood in the U.S. republic of which Mr Murdoch is a citizen, nor, I expect, in any republic that would be established in Australia the country of his former citizenship. On 11/05/2016, PDeloriol@aol.com <PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote: > Ahem! Titles are accepted in Republican countries. Some Republics have even > > given hereditary titles to its citizens. A Republic, grosso modo, is the > negation of an absolute monarch. hereditary titles, for instance, have not > been abolished in France, nor in Germany or Austria, they just do not have > > any privileges, but the State does have a specific department that > regulates them and ensures they are not mis-used or mis-appropriated. > Titles of > Knighthood abound in modern Republics. > Peter > > > In a message dated 10/05/2016 22:06:38 GMT Daylight Time, > gen-medieval@rootsweb.com writes: > > Rupert Murdoch is an American citizen. Even as an Australian (which he > ceased to be on becoming an American in 1985), he was not Sir Rupert. > He is a Companion of the Order of Australia, and a papal knight, but > that does not confer the accolade. It would be absurd for him to use > such a title given that he supports the republican movement in > Australia, and elsewhere. > > Richard > > On 10/05/2016, ravinmaven2001 via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> It seems possible there is a royal descent for Sir Rupert Murdoch, the >> billionaire businessman. >> >> I have used Reitwiesner and Wood's tracing of his ancestry back to > ancestor >> #116, Robert Sherson, "b. 1736/7, buried 13 Jan 1821 at Fetcham, Surrey > aged >> 84, apothecary, doctor of medicine and botanist. Will dated 2 Feb 1819, >> proved with 3 codicils at London 22 Mar 1821." The next entry is for >> his >> wife, Mary ___, and mentions the location of "Bridge House, Fetcham, >> Surrey." >> >> http://www.wargs.com/other/murdoch.html >> >> These details given for Robert Sherson and his wife Mary tie in nicely > to a >> big pedigree chart in Whitaker's _An History of the Original Parish of >> Whalley_, where a footnote to the chart shows Alexander Sherson, husband >> > of >> Bridget Nowell, serving as "Town Clerk of Lancaster, died Nov. 21, >> 1737, >> leaving a numerous issue. His son Robert Sherson, M.D., late of Great >> Ormond Street, now (1809) of Bridge House, Surrey, has also a numerous >> progeny." As this statement was made in the lifetime of Robert Sherson > (d. >> 1821) of Bridge House, Fetcham, Surrey, doctor of medicine, I see no >> real >> reason to doubt its accuracy (though please inform me if this connection >> > is >> wrong). >> >> https://books.google.com > /books?id=EO1EAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA264&dq=%22son+robert+sherson%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0m7Cr-8_MAhUE2SYKHZHsD1gQ6AEIHTAA#v=on > epage&q=%22son%20robert%20sherson%22&f=false >> >> Bridget Nowell, shown by Whitaker to be mother of Robert Sherson, M.D., >> > was >> a daughter of Roger Nowell, Esq., of Whalley, by his wife, Rebecca, > relict >> of Cuthbert Wade (possibly born Rebecca Heber, first cousin to her own > 2nd >> husband). This seems to lead to at least one royal descent from King > Edward >> III, and probably more (the Heber lines should be checked in >> particular). >> >> 1. Edward III, King of England = Philippa of Hainault >> >> 2. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster = (3) with legitimated issue, > Katherine >> (Roet) Swynford >> >> 3. Joan Beaufort = Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland >> >> 4. Richard Neville, 1st Earl of Salisbury = Alice Montagu >> >> 5. Eleanor Neville = Thomas Stanley, 1st Earl of Derby >> >> 6. Edward Stanley, Lord Monteagle = Elizabeth Harington & Anne >> Vaughan >> >> 7. (? possibly illegitimate) Elizabeth Stanley = Sir Thomas Langton >> >> 8. Joan Langton = John Fleetwood >> >> 9. Elizabeth Fleetwood = Roger Nowell >> >> 10. Roger Nowell = Dorothy Holt >> >> 11. Alexander Nowell = Eleanor Heber >> >> 12. Roger Nowell = Rebecca (? Heber), widow of Cuthbert Wade >> >> 13. Bridget Nowell = Alexander Sherson >> >> 14. Robert Sherson = Mary____ >> >> 15. Robert Sherson = Catherine Taylor >> >> 16. Caroline Jemima Sherson = Frederick Henry Alexander Forth >> >> 17. Robert de Lancey Forth = Anne Thomson Ware >> >> 18. Marie Grace de Lancey Forth = Rupert Greene >> >> 19. Elisabeth Joy Greene = Sir Keith Arthur Murdoch >> >> 20. Sir (Keith) Rupert Murdoch >> >> >> The H.O.P. biography of Sir Thomas Langton of Newton confirms his > marriage >> to a daughter, perhaps illegit., of Edward, Lord Monteagle. >> >> > http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/langton-sir-thomas-149697-1569 >> >> Sir Thomas Langton had another wife who should be ruled out as the > mother of >> Joan Langton, who married John Fleetwood. >> >> The _Visitation of Cumberland_ shows the marriage of Joan, daughter of > Sir >> Thomas and Elizabeth (Stanley) Langton, to John Fleetwood. >> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=4nO5MJva0IYC&pg=PA32&dq=%22thomas+langton%22+newton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_q5mqkc7MAhUFxSYKHZSKB_wQ6AEIHTAA#v=onep > age&q=%22thomas%20langton%22%20newton&f=false >> >> _Documents Relating to the Priory of Penwortham_ deals with the > Fleetwood >> and Nowell connections in detail, though again we should rule out John >> Fleetwood's other wife, Catherine Christmas, as ancestral. >> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=MmJVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR56&dq=%22married+roger+nowell+of+read%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiunvC4_c_MAhUB3yYKHWsCBHAQ6AEIMzAE > #v=onepage&q=%22married%20roger%20nowell%20of%20read%22&f=false >> >> I imagine there are in fact several royal descents, as the wife of >> generation 15, Robert Sherson, Jr., appears to have been a granddaughter >> > of >> Thomas Forbes, who was the son of Arthur Forbes Maitland of Pitrichie. >> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=uZlNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA454&dq=sherson+nowell+fetcham&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw6cmC-s_MAhUK7yYKHRDTDn0Q6AEIHTAA#v=onepage& > q=sherson%20nowell%20fetcham&f=false >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > >

Could we...uh...please...revise Rupert Murdoch's line...I do not want to be related to him. Ditto Trump. Please...