On 14/05/2016 4:17 AM, Jason Quick via wrote: > Possible Ancestry of Main d’Aubigne > > Ralph the Large de Gahard and his Son Main d’Aubigne were the lords of Aubigne, which included a cluster of towns and mound fortifications centered around the Breton village of Saint-Aubin-d'Aubigné. The other villages included; Chauvigné, Gahard, Saint-Médard-sur-Ille, Saint-Germain and Montreuil-sur-Ille all located between Rennes and Vitré. In Chauvigné, the Lord’s Aubigne held land in fee to the Lords of Fougères (Ferns), and probably shared a close relationship with them through a matrimonial marriage do to similar naming patterns.(a) > > The first mention of Ralph the Large is c. 1040 in a charter chronicling the donation of Borne wood to the monks of of Gahard. (b) The citation given in your note (b) for this is incorrect - it is not in "Recueil des historiens des Gaules et de la France, Volume 10 edited by Martin Bouquet, Léopold Delisle pg 10" (that contains part of Radulf Glaber's chronicle) but in the first part of 'Recueil d'actes inédits des ducs et princes de Bretagne' edited by Arthur de la Borderie, p. 33, see https://books.google.com.au/books?id=XqswAQAAIAAJ. <snip> > Keats-Rohan, mentions a clue that might shed some light on the ancestry of Ralph the Large. She mentions a Euen de Saint-Germain, who was probably an uncle to Main d’Aubigne (m) that is named in a charter involving the Monastery of St Martin in Erbreé (B. N. lat. 5441.3, pp. 295-6) located in the French Archives(n). This charter loosely translated with help from accounts from Michel Brand'Honneur (o) and a separate text from the Abbey of Martimour (Rennes, AD Ille-et-Vilaine, 6 H 34 n° 3 Numéro 2168)(n) . There were three Soldiers; Norman, Frotgier, and Adam all sons of Tetbaud who were disputing Hervé the cannon of Tours of becoming a monk at the Monastery of Erbrée. One of the brothers became ill and while he was dying retracted his dispute with Hervé. Claritia, Adam’s aunt, wife of Eudon son of Almodius, protested and assaulted Hervé by hitting him on the head with a stick and in front of Rivallon the priest. The lord of the area, Andrew I of Vitre th! en imprisoned Clarice and called a council at the Hall of Dominus to settle the dispute with Hervé and all of Clarice’s relatives. They in turn had to claim that Herve could become a monk because Andrew needed to keep the peace because of violence and protest with the other monks. Clarice was henceforth whipped as a result of her insolence. Among the witnesses are Norman’s sons; Hamelin, Payen, Andrew, and his daughter ; and her Husband Ewen (Euen) Saint-Germain. Also in attendance are Frotgier’s sons Walter (Gualterio) and Botardo. Another online translation that was used that was translated by DuPaz (p). > If anyone would like to take a stab at translating further and or finding mistakes please do. I don't have time to go through this in detail, but the dispute was not over Hervé, a canon at Tours, becoming a monk at 'the Monastery of Erbrée', rather it was over his giving the church of Erbrée and its presbyterate to Marmoutier (not 'Martimour') when he became a monk there. Clarice struck him at the altar when he and Rivallon were saying mass, and she was whipped for this sacrilege rather than for insolence. The citation given by Keats-Rohan ('B. N. lat. 5441.3, pp. 295-6') is not to this charter at all but to to a 17th-century copy of a notice in the cartulary of Marmoutier that Ralph the Large had given them the church of Saint-Médard with the assent of his nine sons, as referenced in your note (f), see http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9077003n/f161.image.r=latin%205441. Peter Stewart

Stewart, You can put me on your pre-publication orders list if you ever decide to publish this as a book. Best, Nathan On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Stewart Baldwin via < gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: > The Henry Project website has been experiencing more traffic than usual > this month, as I just got a message that 80% of the monthly quota has > been reached (and the month isn't even half over). I would like to > remind users of this newsgroup that the Henry Project has a mirror site > with exactly the same pages, located at the following URL: > > http://home.earthlink.net/~henryproject/hproject/henry.htm > > This site is currently receiving much less traffic, and I recommend that > those who use this material often consider using this URL instead. > If/when the other site reaches its quota, it will temporarily go > offline, and the above URL will be the only way to access the Henry > Project until the beginning of the next month. > > I know that a more permanent solution is going to be needed in the long > run, but it will require a significant investment of time on my part, > and it is not very near to the top of my (very long) to-do list. > > Stewart Baldwin > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Nathan W. Murphy, MA, Accredited Genealogist United States and Canada Research Consultant Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah

The Henry Project website has been experiencing more traffic than usual this month, as I just got a message that 80% of the monthly quota has been reached (and the month isn't even half over). I would like to remind users of this newsgroup that the Henry Project has a mirror site with exactly the same pages, located at the following URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~henryproject/hproject/henry.htm This site is currently receiving much less traffic, and I recommend that those who use this material often consider using this URL instead. If/when the other site reaches its quota, it will temporarily go offline, and the above URL will be the only way to access the Henry Project until the beginning of the next month. I know that a more permanent solution is going to be needed in the long run, but it will require a significant investment of time on my part, and it is not very near to the top of my (very long) to-do list. Stewart Baldwin

Margaret Stewart 1497 | | | George Gordon, Earl of Huntly 1513-1562 Margaret Drummond 1532-1590 | | Jean Gordon 1546-1629 Alexander, Baron Elphinstone 1552-1638 | | Jane Gordon 1574-1615 Margaret Elphinstone 1588 | | Donald Mackay, Lord Reay 1591-1649 Christian Bruce | | Anna MacKay John Innes +1726 | | Isabella Munro John Innes 1662-1719 | | Alexander MacKay Alexander Innes 1701-1761 | | Robert Mac Kay Katherine Innes +/1783 | | Ansus MacKay Catherine Gordon 1765-1811 | | Mary MacKay 1750 George Gordon, Baron Byron 1788-1824 | Donald MacLeod 1785 | Catherine MacLeod 1809 | Alexander MacLeod 1830 | Malcolm MacLeod 1866-1954 | Mary Ann MacLeod 1912-2000 | Donald Trump 1946-

On 14/05/2016 4:56 AM, Richard Smith via wrote: > Would someone mind taking a look at the inscription at the bottom this > brass effigy? > > https://archive.org/stream/manualofcostumea00drui_0#page/n435/mode/2up > > I think it reads "Hic jacet Willelmus Echyngham miles dominus de > Echingham qui obiit xx die mensis Martii Anno Domini millesimo cccc xij, > et Domina Johanna consors sua que obiit primo die mensis Septembris Anno > Domini millesimo cccc quarto, ac Thomas Echyngham miles dominus eciam de > Echingham filius eorum qui obiit xv die octobris anno domini m cccc > xliiii quorum animabus propitietur Deus." > > The bit I particularly want to check is the "filius eorum" in the middle > of the last line (the first word is damaged and the second abbreviated), > and that there's no peculiar mediaeval usage could cause this to mean > anything other than that Sir Thomas's mother is the Joan who died in 1404. > Your reading seems correct, except that at the start it says "Hic jacent" (plural) and the last word at the end is "Amen". In most written contexts "filius eorum" after naming a husband and wife would be good evidence that they were the son's parents, here indicating that Thomas was the son of both William and Joan. However, in a brass made for a common tomb after the last of several people had died the literal accuracy of the inscription may not be absolute. Brasses such as this were often not made locally but ordered in writing from London - if they were received with a small error (or even a large one, such as a wrong name) from misinterpreting instructions that might be couched in less than perfectly intelligible contractions, I doubt that the maker would invariably be asked to provide a new one. In this case, for instance, the order might have stated (with contraction marks) "fil ei" for filius eius, meaning that Thomas was the son of William, which was logically understood as "fil eor" meaning filius eorum because he came after both William and Joan. But for most purposes, without independent evidence, there is little value in splitting hypothetical hairs. Peter Stewart

Thanks John and Matt.. Matt..Thanks to your kind link to George F. Farnham, Quorndon Records 1912) These may be of some interest. Three finds relevant to the Despensers. In searching the Quorndon records, in the first detailed charter, seems to confirm that Geoffrey was indeed the Dispensator to the Earl of Chester [probably Ranulf,the 4th earl of Chester]in this time period. In addition it appears to name a brother Simon, who in my records is a new find, not mentioned by anyone previously. Extract: "QUORNDON RECORDS: SUPPLEMENT. Hastings MSS. Date between 1123 and 1147. Ranulph, Earl of Chester, to the Constables, Stewards, Ministers, Sheriffs and all his bailiffs, French and English,greeting. Know ye that I have given and granted to Robert, Earl of Leicester, in fee and by hereditary right to him and to his heirs from me and ray heirs Cernelea and all the woods adjoining his forest of Leycester, as well my own woods as those of my fee, except my Park of Barrow, To hold those in the forest of me as well, freely and fully as he holds the Forest of Leycester of the King, excepting this only, that I retain in those woods the easements of the adjoining manors,without waste and without sale. And besides this I have given to him by inheritance whatever I have in the town of Leycester in demesne and fee. And for this tenure he has done fealty to me as to the lord from whom he holds. Therefore I will and command that he hold well, in peace and freely. And I prohibit that anyone cause him to forfeit any of the above things. [Witnesses] : Alexander bishop of Lincoln, Roger bishop of Chester, Earl William of Lincoln, Earl Symon of Norharapton, Ralph de Haia, Hugh Waac, William Colevill, Symon son of William, Thurstan Banaster, Hugh Bird, Hugh Ostricher, Richard Pincerna, Geoffrey Dispensator, Simon his brother, Roger de Turribus, Hugh Maleb,Robert son of Nigell, John de Sentevill, William Burdet, Robert de Crest, Geoffrey Abbot, Ralph Normanvill, Fulco Trussell, Robert Puher and those of the fields of Leycester and Mountsorell. William de Seis to all his men and friends, French and English, present and to come, greeting. Know ye that I have given, granted and by this my present Charter have confirmed to Hugh my son for his homage and service all my jand of Brockesby, together with the advowson of the church, and the mill, meadows, feedings and all the .appurtenances, within and without the town, to him and to his heirs, to hold of me and of my heirs freely, honorably and quietly, free of all except foreign service. Rendering therefor annually to me and to my heirs a gilt spur at the feast of St. James. These being witnesses : Bertreia countess of Chester, Agnes countess of Ferrers, Simon de Kimba, Thomas Dispensator, William the Mareschal, Hugh Dispensator, Thomas and Henry his brothers, Richard son of Robert, Robert de Sutton, Robert son of Picot, Gilbert his son, Robert Putrell, Richard de Folia, John chaplain of Barwa, Henry the clerk and many others. Ranulph, Earl of Chester, to all present and to come, greeting. Know ye that I have given, granted and by this fliy present Charter have confirmed to William son of Gerard for his homage and service six times twenty and eight ,(128) acres in my assarts beyond Querendon measured by the perch of i6 feet ; to wit, all my land of Sumehag which .lies between Stanwasbroc and the land of Peter son of Nicholas in Littlehag, and between the said Stanwasbroc and my j;learing which I have in S according as the metes appear, which my men make when they perambulate that land between me and him, and between Monefalgate and my hedge of my Park of Querendon in length (saving to me 2 acres which lie next to my hedge of my Park measured by the perch of 16 feet, which I retain to my own use) and all my land which I had in Haverwic, which land comprises 128 acres. Further, I have given to the same William, son of Gerard, 2 virgates of land in Querendon, to wit, those which Hervisius, son of Cecily, and Roger Dod, hold of me—Hervisius one and Roger the other—together with their men and their offspring, and further, i acre by Stanwath to build him a house. To have and to hold to him and his heirs of me and of my heirs freely, quietly and wholly with all appurtenances within and without the town which ought to pertain thereto. Rendering therefor yearly to me and to my heirs one pair of gilt spurs or 6d. at the feast of St. Martin for all services and secular demands. With witnesses Philip de Orreby, justice of Chester, Hugh Dispensator, William Picot, Thomas and Henry, Robert, Geoffrey Dispensator, Norman Pantuf, Master of Chester, Hugh Martel and many others. N.B.—Philip de Orreby was justice of Chester from 1209 to 1228; therefore the above Charter may be assigned to a year not later -ithan 1228. In summary the children of Anschetill Despenser updated: Geoffrey Despenser, fls. 1126 ,when he confirmed his father's gift of Waterfal, Stafforshire to Burton abbey. Ivo de Alspath - Constable of Skipton and later Coventry. Ivo son of Aschetil appears twice in the witness lists of charters of Cecily de Rumilly , wife of William Meschines , and mother of Ranulf, Earl of Chester (CB, nos. 411,446) Notification to the archbishop of York, Thurstan, by Cecily de Rumilly of her gift in free, pure and perpetual alms to the canons of Saint Mary and Saint Cuthbert,Embsay, of the mill of Silsden, with multure of the said vill and the workings of the same mill, with all liberties and free customs, setting down rules for the use of the mill, including forfeiture of corn, sack and horses. [Michaelmas 1130x25 Jan. 40.] Witness: Ivone constabulario (k.) In Early Yorkshire Charters: Being a Collection of Documents byWilliam Farrer, Sir Charles Travis Clay. editor, 1947 - Yorkshire (England) states that Iivo the Constable who witnessed notifications to Thurstan, archbishop of York ( 1131-1140) (no's 4 and 6) was probably the brother of William Aschetil. Gift in free, [pure] and perpetual alms by Cecily de Rumilly to the canons of Embsay of her mills at Harewood with all its multure, with provision that no other mill will be had in the land which pertains to the church of Harewood, excepting Brandon and Wigton, without the assent of the canons, with all suit and free customs, with toft and croft in Harewood, one assart outside called Parvum Angrum, with meadow, another assart called Benecroft and free common of the Harewood, with forfeiture for those who go to another mill. [Michaelmas 1130AI481 Witness: "Ivone filio Aschetilli" , is likely to be the same person as Ivo the constable who witnessed the charters of Cecily and her daughter Alice (CB, nos. 8,106,107,28 1). William , seen in a charter of Cecily de Rummily (Honour of Skipton) Simon as seen above Agnes - conjectured Hugh fls. 1130 at Coventry - conjectured

Le samedi 14 mai 2016 08:56:55 UTC+2, D. Spencer Hines a écrit : > Bon Jour, > > Is this what you wanted? I can't vouch for the accuracy of each and every > link but here is what I've cobbled together from various sources. > > Will send next post. > > A closer link is allegedly to Christian I of Denmark and Dorothea v. > Brandenburg. 11th cousins, seven times removed. Sounds fishy. > > Vive La France! > > Spencer > You're great. Thank you. John Stewart, Earl of Lennox ca 1495-1526 &1511 Elizabeth Stewart ca 1491-1529/ | Helen Stewart ca 1521-/1564 &1549 John Gordon, Earl of Sutherland 1525-1567 | Alexander Gordon, Earl of Sutherland 1552-1594 &1573 Jean Gordon 1546-1629 | Jane Gordon 1574-1615 &1589 Hugh Mackay 1550-1614 | Donald Mackay, Lord Reay 1591-1649 &1632 Elizabeth Thomson +1637 | Anna MacKay & Hugh Munro 1639-1698 | Isabella Munro & Robert MacKay | Alexander MacKay & Margaret Fearn | Robert Mac Kay & ? ? | Ansus MacKay & ? ? | Mary MacKay 1750 & Angus MacLeod 1757 | Donald MacLeod 1785 &1805 Margaret Cameron 1785 | Catherine MacLeod 1809 &1828 William MacLeod 1806-1869 | Alexander MacLeod 1830 & Ann MacLeod | Malcolm MacLeod 1866-1954 &1891 Mary Smith 1867-1963 | Mary Ann MacLeod 1912-2000 &1936 Frederick Christ Trump 1905-1999 | Donald John Trump 1946-

On 13/05/16 23:54, Stewart Baldwin via wrote: > It certainly looks like the symbol following "eo" is the usual > abbreviation mark that would stand for "rum" in this context. Thanks. > Are there other copies of the book that can be easily checked to see > if the damage is due to printing? After a bit of googling I can do better. Here's a modern photo: http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/03/01/04/3010404_7f6140a4.jpg The right hand side is slightly cropped and out of focus, but the word 'filius' seems much clearer than in the book. Richard

On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 3:40:08 PM UTC+10, Jason Quick wrote: > As for the mention of, (B. N. lat. 5441.3, pp. 295-6) in that final > paragraph, yes that should be eliminated entirely. You wouldn’t happen > to know if there is a full translation of that charter anywhere? I don't think the actual charter has come down to us - as far as I know all we have is this notice as copied by Roger de Gaignières (in the early-18th century, not in the 17th as I mistakenly wrote before). The notice is as follows: Rad[ulfus] Largus dedit nobis ecclesiam Sancti Medardi cum &c. annuentibus filiis suis, Manio Ivano Guill[elm]o Steph[an]o Alfr[edo] Rotb[erto] Herv[eo] Juhali Herberto. Testes Rad. de Meso Germundi. &c. (Radulf le Large gave us the church of Saint-Médard with etc. [its appurtenances], his sons assenting, Main, Iwan, William, Stephen, Alfred, Robert, Hervé, Juhail, Herbert. Witnesses Rad[ulf] de Meso Germund, et al.) Peter Stewart

Copy > > I don't have time to go through this in detail, but the dispute was not > over Hervé, a canon at Tours, becoming a monk at 'the Monastery of > Erbrée', rather it was over his giving the church of Erbrée and its > presbyterate to Marmoutier (not 'Martimour') when he became a monk > there. Clarice struck him at the altar when he and Rivallon were saying > mass, and she was whipped for this sacrilege rather than for insolence. > The citation given by Keats-Rohan ('B. N. lat. 5441.3, pp. 295-6') is > not to this charter at all but to to a 17th-century copy of a notice in > the cartulary of Marmoutier that Ralph the Large had given them the > church of Saint-Médard with the assent of his nine sons, as referenced > in your note (f), see > http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9077003n/f161.image.r=latin%205441. > > Peter Stewart Peter, I took another look at this and I think Keats Rohan meant to say 294-6 not 295-6 for (B. N. lat. 5441.3). Pages 294-95 has a shorter copied charter about Hervé and the Monstary of Erbrée mentioning Euen de St Germain which is a modified copy of Rennes, AD Ille-et-Vilaine, 6 H 34 n° 3. The bottom of page 295 has the Charter of Saint-Médard with Ralph the large mentioned with his 9 sons and continues onto page 296. You can disregard my last post about needing another source. Thanks

Le vendredi 13 mai 2016 22:27:24 UTC+2, D. Spencer Hines a écrit : > The Donald also appears to be at least a 13th cousin, twice removed of The > Queen -- as both allegedly descend from John Stewart [ca 1490-1526], 3rd > Earl of Lennox and Lady Elizabeth Stewart [herself a Stewart]. > > There are undoubtedly closer relationships. > > DSH > > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do > nothing." - Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797] > > "Ignorance-Arrogance-Dishonesty-Goodwill-Fortitude-Guile-And Zeal -- > Absolutely The Worst Possible Combination Of Human Traits." > > R. Bannister Chandos Byron [1836-1903] Dear Sir, did you have the link between Donald Trump and the 3rd Earl of Lennox ? Regards, Olivier

Thanks for the keen eye Peter on my sources and clarifying the translations from Rennes, AD Ille-et-Vilaine, 6 H 34 n° 3. I think my copy paste from my notes got the best of me. Yes you are 100% correct the reference for (b) should be (b). Recueil d'actes inédits des ducs et princes de Bretagne' edited by Arthur de la Borderie, pg. 33. Donation of Raoul Le Large to the priory of Gahrad (1040-1066). “Radulfus cognomento Largus donat Sancto Exupcrio silvam Bornus, monachis qui in Gahardo commorantur. Signum ejus et Mainonis, Heweni et Guillelmi filiorum ejus. Signum Albrici filii ejus bastardi. A la marge Signum comitis Conani Signum comitis Heudonis” https://books.google.com.au/books?id=XqswAQAAIAAJ As for the mention of, (B. N. lat. 5441.3, pp. 295-6) in that final paragraph, yes that should be eliminated entirely. You wouldn’t happen to know if there is a full translation of that charter anywhere? Thanks Again Jason

On Friday, 13 May 2016 19:18:00 UTC+1, Jason Quick wrote: > Possible Ancestry of Main d’Aubigne > > Ralph the Large de Gahard Is "the Large" a correct translation of Largus? Ralph "the Generous" seems more correct. Regards, John

Would someone mind taking a look at the inscription at the bottom this brass effigy? https://archive.org/stream/manualofcostumea00drui_0#page/n435/mode/2up I think it reads "Hic jacet Willelmus Echyngham miles dominus de Echingham qui obiit xx die mensis Martii Anno Domini millesimo cccc xij, et Domina Johanna consors sua que obiit primo die mensis Septembris Anno Domini millesimo cccc quarto, ac Thomas Echyngham miles dominus eciam de Echingham filius eorum qui obiit xv die octobris anno domini m cccc xliiii quorum animabus propitietur Deus." The bit I particularly want to check is the "filius eorum" in the middle of the last line (the first word is damaged and the second abbreviated), and that there's no peculiar mediaeval usage could cause this to mean anything other than that Sir Thomas's mother is the Joan who died in 1404. Richard

On 5/13/2016 1:56 PM, Richard Smith via wrote: > Would someone mind taking a look at the inscription at the bottom this > brass effigy? > > https://archive.org/stream/manualofcostumea00drui_0#page/n435/mode/2up > > I think it reads "Hic jacet Willelmus Echyngham miles dominus de > Echingham qui obiit xx die mensis Martii Anno Domini millesimo cccc xij, > et Domina Johanna consors sua que obiit primo die mensis Septembris Anno > Domini millesimo cccc quarto, ac Thomas Echyngham miles dominus eciam de > Echingham filius eorum qui obiit xv die octobris anno domini m cccc > xliiii quorum animabus propitietur Deus." > > The bit I particularly want to check is the "filius eorum" in the middle > of the last line (the first word is damaged and the second abbreviated), > and that there's no peculiar mediaeval usage could cause this to mean > anything other than that Sir Thomas's mother is the Joan who died in 1404. It certainly looks like the symbol following "eo" is the usual abbreviation mark that would stand for "rum" in this context. Are there other copies of the book that can be easily checked to see if the damage is due to printing? Stewart Baldwin

Dear Scott ~ The fine below indicates that John Lingen and his wife, Margaret Englefield, were married on or about 25 November 1507/20 January 1508. As such, they appear to have been contemporaries of Robert Blake (died 1515), of Calne, Wiltshire, and his wife, Margaret Englefield. Given what you have posted regarding the two couples, it seems likely to me that the two Margaret Englefield's were separate and distinct people. This does not, however, preclude them from being sisters, even full siblings. For your information, I might add that the Englefield family of Berkshire traces their descent from Sir Alan de Englefield (or Englefeld, Engelfeld), Knt., living 1226, of Englefield and Sheffield (in Burghfield), Berkshire, Edgcott, Buckinghamshire, Cranford, Middlesex, Himley, Staffordshire, etc., Justice in Berkshire, and his wife, Isabel, daughter of Roger de Somery, Knt., of Dudley (in Sedgley), Staffordshire. Isabel de Somery's mother, Margaret (or Margery) le Gras, was the niece of Sir William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah + + + + + + + + + + + Source: http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_83_58.shtml#26 CP 25/1/83/58, number 26. Link: Image of document at AALT County: Herefordshire. Place: Westminster. Date: Two weeks from St Martin, 23 Henry VII [25 November 1507]. And afterwards one week from St Hilary in the same year [20 January 1508]. Parties: Thomas Leyghton', knight, John Danuers, knight, Robert White, esquire, William Rudhale, Henry Lauain, esquire, Richard Vaughan', esquire, Thomas Englefeld', esquire, Thomas Bodenham, Richard Tyler, clerk, and Thomas Latham, clerk, querents, and John Lyngan', knight, and Eleanor, his wife, deforciants. Property: The manor of Weston', and 12 messuages, 1 mill, 1 dove-cot, 12 gardens, 600 acres of land, 50 acres of meadow, 300 acres of pasture, 200 acres of wood and 4 pounds of rent in Weston'. Action: Plea of covenant. Agreement: John and Eleanor have acknowledged the manor and tenements to be the right of Richard Tyler, as those which the same Richard, Thomas, John Danuers, Robert, William, Henry, Richard, Thomas, Thomas, Richard and Thomas have of their gift, and have remised and quitclaimed them from themselves and the heirs of Eleanor to Thomas, John Danuers, Robert, William, Henry, Richard, Thomas, Thomas, Richard and Thomas and the heirs of Richard Tyler for ever. Warranty: Warranty. For this: Thomas, John Danuers, Robert, William, Henry, Richard, Thomas, Thomas, Richard and Thomas have granted to John Lyngan' and Eleanor the manor and tenements and have rendered them to them in the court, to hold to John and Eleanor for their lives, without impeachment of waste, of the chief lords. After the decease of John Lyngan' and Eleanor, the manor and tenements shall remain to John Lyngan', esquire, and Margaret, the daughter of Thomas Englefeld', knight, and the heirs of their bodies, to hold of the chief lords for ever. In default of such heirs, successive remainders (1) to the heirs of the body of Eleanor, (2) to the heirs of John Milewater, uncle of Eleanor, namely the brother of Thomas, the father of Eleanor, and the heirs of his body, (3) to the right heirs of Roger Dodenham of Reytherwes and his heirs [sic]. Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.) Persons: Thomas Leighton, John Danvers, Robert White, William Rudhall, Henry Lovain, Richard Vaughan, Thomas Englefield, Thomas Bodenham, Richard Tyler, Thomas Latham, John Lingen, Eleanor Lingen, Margaret Englefield, John Milewater, Thomas Milewater, Roger Dodenham Places: Weston, Rotherwas

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 4:19:40 PM UTC-7, Richard Smith wrote: > After a bit of googling I can do better. Here's a modern photo: > > http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/03/01/04/3010404_7f6140a4.jpg > > The right hand side is slightly cropped and out of focus, but the word > 'filius' seems much clearer than in the book. Here is one with the full inscription visible: http://photos.geni.com/p13/a3/fc/ea/7b/5344483d3b546642/t_echingham_original.jpg taf

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 12:02:54 PM UTC-7, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote: > There may be a K. James V descent, if this website "is to be believed" ... > > James V > > James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray, Regent of Scotland = Anne Keith > > Elizabeth Stewart, Countess of Moray = James Stewart, kinsman, known as the "Bonnie" 2nd Earl of Moray > > Grizell Stewart = Sir Robert Innes, 1st Bart. > > Sir Robert Innes, 2nd Bart. = Jean Ross > > Elizabeth Innes = Arthur Forbes of Echt (contract matrimonial dated 1681) > > Thomas Forbes, last of Echt = Mary Maitland > > Arthur Forbes Maitland = Judith Mieumecks [also called "Minnoch" or "Minoch," see link below] > > etc. > > http://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getperson.php?personID=I42916&tree=CC > > Apparently, some of these are ancestors of Princess Diana: > > https://books.google.com/books?id=0W1pAAAAMAAJ&q=%22elizabeth+innes%22+echt&dq=%22elizabeth+innes%22+echt&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi34cXV3dfMAhUHKyYKHXuSCJsQ6AEIRTAI See here in Leo's Genealogics database for the descent of Elizabeth Innes from James V: http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00439470&tree=LEO&parentset=0&display=standard&generations=6 And yes, Elizabeth Innes and Arthur Forbes, 12th of Echt are ancestors of Princess Diana.

Le vendredi 13 mai 2016 21:02:54 UTC+2, ravinma...@yahoo.com a écrit : > There may be a K. James V descent, if this website "is to be believed" ... > > James V > > James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray, Regent of Scotland = Anne Keith > > Elizabeth Stewart, Countess of Moray = James Stewart, kinsman, known as the "Bonnie" 2nd Earl of Moray > > Grizell Stewart = Sir Robert Innes, 1st Bart. > > Sir Robert Innes, 2nd Bart. = Jean Ross > > Elizabeth Innes = Arthur Forbes of Echt (contract matrimonial dated 1681) > > Thomas Forbes, last of Echt = Mary Maitland > > Arthur Forbes Maitland = Judith Mieumecks [also called "Minnoch" or "Minoch," see link below] > > etc. > > http://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getperson.php?personID=I42916&tree=CC > > Apparently, some of these are ancestors of Princess Diana: > > https://books.google.com/books?id=0W1pAAAAMAAJ&q=%22elizabeth+innes%22+echt&dq=%22elizabeth+innes%22+echt&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi34cXV3dfMAhUHKyYKHXuSCJsQ6AEIRTAI Elizabeth Innes &1681 Arthur Forbes +1726 | William Forbes +1743 & Elspeth Pyper | Katherine Forbes & David Douglas | Margaret Douglas 1749-1818 &1769 James Chalmers 1742-1810 | Jean Chalmers +1859 &1802 James Littlejohn +1819 | William Littlejohn 1803-1888 &1830 Janet Bentley 1811-1848 | David Littlejohn 1841-1924 &1872 Jane Crombie 1843-1917 | Ruth Littlejohn 1879-1964 &1898 William Gill 1865-1957 | Ruth Gill 1908-1993 &1931 Edmund Roche, Baron Fermoy 1885-1955 | Frances Burke Roche 1936-2004 &1954 Edward John, Earl Spencer 1924-1992 | Diana Spencer, Princess of Wales 1961-1997

There may be a K. James V descent, if this website "is to be believed" ... James V James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray, Regent of Scotland = Anne Keith Elizabeth Stewart, Countess of Moray = James Stewart, kinsman, known as the "Bonnie" 2nd Earl of Moray Grizell Stewart = Sir Robert Innes, 1st Bart. Sir Robert Innes, 2nd Bart. = Jean Ross Elizabeth Innes = Arthur Forbes of Echt (contract matrimonial dated 1681) Thomas Forbes, last of Echt = Mary Maitland Arthur Forbes Maitland = Judith Mieumecks [also called "Minnoch" or "Minoch," see link below] etc. http://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getperson.php?personID=I42916&tree=CC Apparently, some of these are ancestors of Princess Diana: https://books.google.com/books?id=0W1pAAAAMAAJ&q=%22elizabeth+innes%22+echt&dq=%22elizabeth+innes%22+echt&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi34cXV3dfMAhUHKyYKHXuSCJsQ6AEIRTAI