In 1987 Eduard Hlawitschka quoted a source in which a daughter of count Liupold and Ida of Ottenberg was said to have married a king of Russians in 1072 (the year is probably misstated), through the good offices of Heinrich IV ("Rex Rittulorum filiam Livpaldi comitis et domine Ite de Oterisburc his temporibus rege Heinrico mediante uxorem duxit"). The source is an early 16th-century copy of annals compiled at St Gall abbey that had long been considered lost, thought to have been used ca 1100 by a continuator of another work written there. Hlawitschka said in 1987 that the text was soon to be published in an edition by Alois Schütz, but as far as I can tell this has not yet appeared in print. The entry quoted above has been taken to corroborate Albert of Stade's account that Oda, daughter of Ida of Elsdorf, married a Russian king. Hlawitschka identified "Oterisburc" as Ottersberg, ca 20kms south-west of Elsdorf (that is roughly half-way between Hamburg and Bremen). The 16th-century copy, in Augsburg, Staats- und Stadtbibliothek, 2 Cod. 254, has been digitised and the entry can be seen here (on folio 17v): http://nbn-resolving.de/urn:nbn:de:bvb:37-dtl-0000000099. Ida's husband count Liupold is often identified as the eldest son of Adalbert the Victorious, margrave of Austria, though this is questionable. Peter Stewart

Does anyone know Joanna's maiden name? On May 17, 2017, at 9:07 AM, [email protected] wrote: On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:14:45 AM UTC-4, Douglas Richardson wrote: > On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 2:36:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote: > > <Wouldn't this be a source for Caleb being both the son of Joanna Abell and her <first husband, Robert Abell, and step-son to William Hyde? > < > < Valerie > > Your source is correct. Caleb Abell was one of the eight children of the immigrant, Robert Abell, of Rehoboth, Massachusetts [died 1663], and his wife, Joanna. > > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah Thank you! I have really enjoyed reading all of your posts and it has helped me to be better at analyzing sources. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Newsgroup ~ Complete Peerage 5 (1926): 495-497 (sub Fitzwarin) has a good account of Sir Fulk Fitz Warin, 1st Lord Fitz Warin, who died in 1315. On page 495, the following information is given concerning Sir Fulk Fitz Warin, 1st Lord Fitz Warin, and his parentage: "Sir Fulk FitzWarin, of Whittington, Salop, Alveston, co. Gloucester, Wantage, Berks, and Stanton Fitzwarren, Wiltshire, only son and heir of Sir Fulk FitzWarin, of the same (who died 14 May 1264, being drowned in the Ouse, when endeavoring to escape, at the battle of Lewes), by Constance, daughter of Sir Ralph de Tony, of Castle Maud (now Painscastle), co. Radnor, South Tawton, Devon, and Flamstead, Herts." END OF QUOTE. In footnote d on the same page, we are given additional information regarding Sir Fulk Fitz Warin's mother, Constance de Tony: "The above named Constance had livery, 11 Feb. 1265/6, of the manor of Alveston and tenements in Stanton, which had been assigned to her as dower (Close Roll, 50 Hen. III, m. 7d)." END OF QUOTE. We are informed that Constance de Tony was living as a widow 11 Feb. 1265/6, but told nothing further. Nor does Complete Peerage mention her as a child in its account of her parents in Complete Peerage 12(1) (1953): 769–771 (sub Tony). Over the past several years, I've accumulated further traces of Constance de Tony in contemporary records. Below is a summary of my findings. In Michaelmas term 1266 Constance, widow of Fulk Fitz Warin, sued the tenant of the manor of Stanton, Berkshire for dower. Reference: Eyton, Antiqs. of Shropshire 7 (1858): 84; 11 (1860): 38. In 1267 she sued Fulk de Leyham [that is, Fulk Fitz Warin] for one-third of the manor of Alberbury, Shropshire. Reference: Eyton, Antiqs. of Shropshire 7 (1858): 84. In 1276–7 Constance late wife of Fulk FitzWarin arraigned an assize of novel disseisin against Hugh Poyntz and William le Parker regarding common of pasture in Tockington, Gloucestershire. Reference: Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper 46 (1886): 303, which may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=YvwUAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA303 In 1277–8 William de Panes arraigned an assize of novel disseisin against Constance late wife of Fulk FitzWarin and others touching a tenement in Alveston and Erdcote, Gloucestershire. Reference: Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper 47 (1886): 143, which may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=bfwUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA143 Elsewhere I find the 2nd marriage of Constance de Tony recorded in the Episcopal Register of Bishop Godfrey Giffard: "Note of the proceedings in a suit before the official of Worcester as to the marriage of Contance de Thony and David, son of John de Wytenton, who it was declared were duly married in the face of the church of Staunton, in the diocese of Salisbury, on Wednesday before the feast of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist, 1278." END OF QUOTE. Reference: Giffard, Episc. Reg. Diocese of Worcester, Reg. of Bishop Godfrey Giffard 2 (Worcester Hist. Soc. 15) (1902): 486, which may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=G9dLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA486&lpg=PA486 The above record informs us that Constance de Tony married (2nd) 22 June 1278 at Stanton, Wiltshire (where she held her dower rights) to David ap John (or Fitz John), of Whittington, Shropshire. In 1286–7 Constance was summoned for holding view of frankpledge and waif in her manor of Alveston, Gloucestershire. She pleaded that she held the aforesaid view "in dower of the inheritance of Fulk Fitz Warine." Reference: Gloucestershire Notes and Queries 3 (1887): 295, which may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=50cQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA295 See also Athenæum (1885): 429–430, which may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=mro5AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA429 Lady Constance died before 11 August 1289, when her executors, Master Richard de Habyndon, Robert de Bytelescombe, and Sir William Serle, chaplain, were owed debts of £17 4s. and £40 by her son, Fulk Fitz Warin, Knt. This is indicated by the following two records found in the online Discovery catalogue: l. Reference: C 241/9/237 Debtor: Sir Fulk Fitz-Warin, knight [lord of Whittington, Glos.] Creditor: Master Richard de Habyndon', Robert de Bytelescombe, and Sir William Serle, chaplain, the executors of Constancia de Taney [deceased] Amount: £17 4s. Before whom: Peter de la Mare, Constable of Bristol Castle; Richard de Calne, Clerk. When taken: 11/08/1289 First term: 06/10/1289 Last term: 06/10/1289 Writ to: Sheriff of Glos Sent by: Peter de la Mare, Constable of Bristol Castle; Richard de Calne, Clerk. Date: 1289 2. Reference: C 241/3/12 Debtor: Sir Fulk Fitz-Warren [of Glos]. Creditor: Master Richard de Habyndon', Robert de Bittiscombe, and Sir William Merle, chaplain, executors of Constance Taney {Tanny} [deceased] Amount: £40. Before whom: Peter de la Mare, Constable of Bristol Castle; Richard de Calne, Clerk. When taken: 11/08/1289 First term: 02/02/1290 Last term: 25/03/1290 Writ to: Sheriff of Glos Sent by: Peter de la Mare, Constable of Bristol Castle; Richard de Calne, Clerk. Date: 1290 Reviewing the above, we see that Constance de Tony, widow of Sir Fulk Fitz Warin, occurs in the records as a widow in 1266, 1267, 1676-7, and 1277-8. Her second marriage to David ap John (or Fitz John), of Whittington, Shropshire took place in 1278. She is mentioned again in the records in 1286–7. She died testate before 11 August 1289. For the extended ancestry of Constance de Tony, please see my book, Royal Ancestry (5 volume set), available for purchase through Amazon or eBay. For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Constance de Tony [died c.1289] and her 1st husband, Sir Fitz Fitz Warin [died 1264]. Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Marmaduke Beckwith, Dorothy Beresford, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth Bosvile, George & Robert Brent, Nathaniel Burrough, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, William Clopton, Elizabeth Covert, William Crymes, James Cudworth, Humphrey Davie, Anne Derehaugh, Thomas Dudley, William Farrer, Henry Fleete, William Goddard, Muriel Gurdon, Katherine Hamby, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Anne Humphrey, Henry Isham, Edmund Jennings, Edmund, Edward, Richard & Matthew Kempe, Mary Launce, Thomas Lunsford, Agnes Mackworth, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Elizabeth Marshall, Richard More, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, Dorothea Scott, William Skepper, Anne Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Jemima Waldegrave, John & Lawrence Washington, Olive Welby, John West, Mary Wolseley, Hawte Wyatt. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:16:12 PM UTC-7, P J Evans wrote: > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 6:12:08 PM UTC-7, taf wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 11:12:02 AM UTC-7, P J Evans wrote: > > > > > Vital Record of Rehoboth, 1642-1896: Marriages, Intentions ..., Volumes 3-4 > > > P3: 1/44 Abell Joanna and William Hide of New Norwich, June 4, 1667 > > > > Yeah, I saw that, but it is an abstraction of the record. It would be great to see what, exactly, was written in the register (if the originals survive). > > > > taf > > FHL seems to have it on microfilm - #1311434 oops - that's Norwich, CT. Rehoboth - indexes from the town clerk, or Arnold's collection, seem to be all that's available.

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 6:12:08 PM UTC-7, taf wrote: > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 11:12:02 AM UTC-7, P J Evans wrote: > > > Vital Record of Rehoboth, 1642-1896: Marriages, Intentions ..., Volumes 3-4 > > P3: 1/44 Abell Joanna and William Hide of New Norwich, June 4, 1667 > > Yeah, I saw that, but it is an abstraction of the record. It would be great to see what, exactly, was written in the register (if the originals survive). > > taf FHL seems to have it on microfilm - #1311434

On 17/05/2017 11:52 AM, Peter Stewart wrote: > > > On 17/05/2017 10:47 AM, Chris Hampson wrote: >> In Walter Chetwynd's History of Pirehill Hundred, the primary text >> says that both a father and son married women named Maud (with >> details of their fathers). In parallel with this is the text from a >> earlier book where these two women are named Matilda (same fathers >> are named). Clearly the same people, but was it normal for Maud to be >> Matilda, or vice versa? > > Matilda is one (of many) Latinised forms of the compound Germanic name > Mahthild - Maud is one (of several) English forms of the same name, or > rather of the first element of the Germanic name. To be more precise, at least from the 12th century onwards Maud is usually not a representation of just Maht-, but rather a contraction of the French form Mahaud that represents both elements of the Germanic name. Peter Stewart

On 17/05/2017 10:47 AM, Chris Hampson wrote: > In Walter Chetwynd's History of Pirehill Hundred, the primary text says that both a father and son married women named Maud (with details of their fathers). In parallel with this is the text from a earlier book where these two women are named Matilda (same fathers are named). Clearly the same people, but was it normal for Maud to be Matilda, or vice versa? Matilda is one (of many) Latinised forms of the compound Germanic name Mahthild - Maud is one (of several) English forms of the same name, or rather of the first element of the Germanic name. Peter Stewart

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 9:26:55 PM UTC-4, Vivienne Caldwell wrote: > On Thursday, 11 May 2017 14:39:04 UTC+10, Vance Mead wrote: > > Was Simon Elryngton of Hackney originally from Newcastle on Tyne? I am seeing quite a few cases where he is suing people from Northumberland. For example, there are these two entries in Common Pleas from 1458: > > Elrington: The ending of the surname (considering for both "ing" and "ton") suggests a place name. The suffix 'ing' (or ling) means being from a place, i.e. Earthling; and ton meaning town. These account for places such as Reading, Woking, Hastings, Nottingham etc., and also Milton, Brighton, Boston, etc. Many places combine both suffixes as is seen in Wellington, Washington, Durrington, Babington, Farlington, etc. A good explanation for place names in England can be heard on The History of English Podcast, Ep. 30 "The Celtic Legacy". During this timeframe, I tend to think of England as three main tribes: Welsh, southern England (Anglo-Saxon), and northern England (Danelaw). Broadly speaking, these groups tend to marry with other families of their country. There is a town in Yorkshire called Elvington, which is probably the etymology of the surname for this particular group of Elringtons. Also, note the marriages: Robert Elrington married Kateryn Browne (a family from the north) Their children: Dorothy, married John Darnall, Baron of the Exchequer (a family from the north) Elizabeth, married Bartholomew Jekyll of Newington, Middx. (a family from Lincolnshire) Anne, married (1st) ... Vaughan and (2nd) William Lego of London (1. Welsh, 2. unknown) Ursula, married Martin Massingberd (a family from Lincolnshire) Margaret, married Augustin Massingberd (same family from Lincolnshire)

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 9:07:54 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:14:45 AM UTC-4, Douglas Richardson wrote: > > On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 2:36:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote: > > > > <Wouldn't this be a source for Caleb being both the son of Joanna Abell and her <first husband, Robert Abell, and step-son to William Hyde? > > < > > < Valerie > > > > Your source is correct. Caleb Abell was one of the eight children of the immigrant, Robert Abell, of Rehoboth, Massachusetts [died 1663], and his wife, Joanna. > > > > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah > > Thank you! I have really enjoyed reading all of your posts and it has helped me to be better at analyzing sources.

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 1:31:34 PM UTC-4, James Wester wrote: > What about Samuel Hyde son of Joanna and her second husband William? > Is that provable? > > > James Wester > [email protected] > > I have not seen any source that cites any children born of William Hyde's second wife, Joanna. In the Hyde Genealogy of William Hyde of Norwich it gives two children by his unknown first wife: Samuel, born about 1637, who married Jane Lee, and Hester, who married John Post. The Hyde Genealogy states that this Samuel was the only son of William Hyde of Norwich. This makes for an interesting family because Samuel's son John Hyde married Experience Abell, the daughter of Margaret Post (daughter of Hester Hyde and John Post) and Caleb Abell, so he married his first cousin's daughter. If you have more information on this family, please share. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: taf <[email protected]> > To: gen-medieval <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, May 16, 2017 11:00 am > Subject: Re: Caleb Abell, possible child of Robert Abell, gateway immigrant > > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 6:44:47 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote: > > > US New England Marriages Prior to 1700 for Robert Abell, p.2: Abell, Robert > > (-June 1663) & Joanna__(-1682+), m/2 William Hyde of Norwich, Ct 1667; by > > 1639 Weymouth/Rehoboth. > > > > New England Great Migration Begins, p.3 for Robert Abell:Joanna married > > second at Rehoboth 4 June 1667 William Hyde of "New Norwich" [ReVR 3, citing > > original 1:44]; she removed to Norwich with her new husband, and outlived > > him as well. > > > > American Marriages before 1699: Joanna Abell and William Hide 4 June 1667 > > Rehoboth, Massachusetts. > > > > The Abell Family in America by Horace A. Abell and Lewis P. Abell (The > > Tuttle Publishing Co., Inc) p.46: Joanna, after the death of Robert Abell; > > m2nd in Rehoboth June 4, 1667, William Hyde, who probably came to America in > > 1633 with the Reverend Thomas Hooker...William Hyde was one of the original > > proprietors of Norwich, Connecticut in 1660. He d. at Norwich, January 6, > > 1681. > > > > Hope these are good sources. Thank you for looking at my post. > > Yes, I hope they are too, but hope is not a very sound basis. It is important to undertand why they say this. > > Of the two marriage books, I am familiar with one of them, but don't recall which - it is generally good, but it does contain some speculative material, and most importantly, its format does not permit the reported marriages to be supported by documentation or explanation. > > The Great Migration project works are top of the line, so the question is, what exactly do the Rehoboth VR say about Hyde and his wife - are they explicit that she was Robert's widow? Is there any further support, such as probate or land records that make it clear (although if it names her as Joanna Abell, and there are no other documented Abells in Rehoboth, and the one we know of, Robert, had a known wife Joanna and died a few years before this marriage, then it is solid enough, but it would be good to know). > > The Abell book (p. 52) simply makes a bold statement that Robert's widow married William Hyde. > > One thing you want to be careful of is making a circular argument. The Abell book quotes the document in which Caleb called William Hyde his father, so that may be the basis for their conclusion that Hyde married Robert's widow. > Caleb's land document naming Hyde as his 'Father' can be used to prove one additional relationship, but only if the other is documented elsewhere - it proves Caleb was son of Robert if you can separately show that Hyde married Robert's widow, or it can prove Hyde married Robert's widow if you can independently show Caleb was son of Robert, but it can't at the same time prove both that Caleb was son of Robert and that Robert's widow married Hyde. > > taf > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dugdale said that Lewis was son of Roger however Sir H.Nicholas analysed and said he was probably his brother not his son.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:14:45 AM UTC-4, Douglas Richardson wrote: > On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 2:36:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote: > > <Wouldn't this be a source for Caleb being both the son of Joanna Abell and her <first husband, Robert Abell, and step-son to William Hyde? > < > < Valerie > > Your source is correct. Caleb Abell was one of the eight children of the immigrant, Robert Abell, of Rehoboth, Massachusetts [died 1663], and his wife, Joanna. > > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah Thank you! I have really enjoyed reading all of your posts and it has helped me to be better at analyzing sources.

An angel was a gold coin. It was issued at various times and had various values from 6 shillings eight pence (half a mark) up to 11 shillings. Vance On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 11:15:00 AM UTC+3, Vivienne Caldwell wrote: > On Friday, 12 May 2017 14:36:13 UTC+10, Vance Mead wrote: > > Vivienne, > > > > Here are some earlier cases involving Elryngtons. There are three: Simon, John, and Robert. Simon is identified only as "of Middlesex" in these, but he is probably of Hackney, as in 1458. John is identified only as esquire, but could be the same as in in 1458, of Newcastle. And Robert is of Elryngton, Northumberland, esquire. > > > > > > Simon Elryngton, of Middx, esquire or gentleman > > 1440 Easter > > d 1596 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no717/bCP40no717dorses/IMG_1596.htm > > London. Anne or Aune, Alexander, executor of; (Elryngton, Simon) versus Estfeld, William, of London, knight & former mayor. Debt. > > > > 1442 Hilary > > f 679 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no724/aCP40no724fronts/IMG_0679.htm > > Northumb. Elryngton, Simon, esq; Proctour, Thomas, clerk, versus Wales, John, of Newcastle on Tyne, merchant; Anbell or Aubell, John, of Newcastle on Tyne, merchant. Debt. > > > > 1448 Hilary > > f 698 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no748/aCP40no748fronts/IMG_0698.htm > > Middx. Elryngton, Simon versus Drayton, John, of Tottenham, gent. Debt. > > > > 1450 Trinity > > d 728 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no758/bCP40no758dorses/IMG_0728.htm > > Northumb. Elryngton, Simon, of Middx, gent; Prottour or Proctour, Thomas, chaplain, versus Stevenson, Hugh, of Alwentdale, yeoman; Cottysford, Alwentdale, yeoman; Stevenson, John, of Alwentdale, yeoman; Barker, Roger, of Hexham, tanner. Debt. > > > > 1453 Hilary > > d 1335 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no768/bCP40no768dorses/IMG_1335.htm > > Middx. Elryngton, Simon, gent versus Smallage, John, of Hakeney, husbandman; Wetwange, Robert, of Dunstan, Northumb, gent; Heron, John, of Forde, Notts, knight; Botell, John, of Greys Inn, Holburn St Andrew, gent; Warde, Thomas, clerk, executor of; (Durant, William, of London, notary). Debt. > > > > > > John Elryngton, esquire > > 1440 Easter > > d 1596 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no717/bCP40no717dorses/IMG_1596.htm > > Middx. Elryngton, John, esq, on his own account, versus Hepehill, Richard, of Etton, Yorks, clerk; Briggefeld, Richard, of North Cave, Yorks, gent; Alverd, William, of Hakeney, Middx, husbandman; Girlyngton, Edmund, of Hakeney, husbandman. Debt. > > > > > > Robert Elryngton, of Elryngton, Northumb, esquire > > 1448 Hilary > > d 1741 > > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no748/bCP40no748dorses/IMG_1741.htm > > Northumb. Langley, Thomas, Bishop of Durham, executors of; (Alnwick, William, Bishop of Lincoln; Neville, Richard, Earl of Salisbury; Hulme, Nicholas, canon of Derlyngton; Strother, Robert, esq; Corston, Richard, chaplain) versus Wodryngton, Roger, of Wordryngton, esq; Elryngton, Robert, of Elryngton, esq; Bartram, John, of Bottale, knight. Debt. > > Thank you Vance for all of these, there are some related names which are also of interest to me, eg Girlyngton. > > I have also found some wills of Elringtons in Northumberland which are at a different social level. > > Surtees Society. 1906. Wills and inventories from the registry of Durham. P. 3. > https://archive.org/stream/willsinvregdupt200surtuoft/willsinvregdupt200surtuoft_djvu.txt > > This probably should be posted as a new thread, but the will of Simon Elryngton p. 61 of the above document is all about leaving 'olde angell/s". Althought I have been looking into the past for many years I have only recently jumped into the pre 17C period and do not know what is meant by this term. Any info welcomed. > > Regards > Vivienne

On Friday, 12 May 2017 14:36:13 UTC+10, Vance Mead wrote: > Vivienne, > > Here are some earlier cases involving Elryngtons. There are three: Simon, John, and Robert. Simon is identified only as "of Middlesex" in these, but he is probably of Hackney, as in 1458. John is identified only as esquire, but could be the same as in in 1458, of Newcastle. And Robert is of Elryngton, Northumberland, esquire. > > > Simon Elryngton, of Middx, esquire or gentleman > 1440 Easter > d 1596 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no717/bCP40no717dorses/IMG_1596.htm > London. Anne or Aune, Alexander, executor of; (Elryngton, Simon) versus Estfeld, William, of London, knight & former mayor. Debt. > > 1442 Hilary > f 679 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no724/aCP40no724fronts/IMG_0679.htm > Northumb. Elryngton, Simon, esq; Proctour, Thomas, clerk, versus Wales, John, of Newcastle on Tyne, merchant; Anbell or Aubell, John, of Newcastle on Tyne, merchant. Debt. > > 1448 Hilary > f 698 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no748/aCP40no748fronts/IMG_0698.htm > Middx. Elryngton, Simon versus Drayton, John, of Tottenham, gent. Debt. > > 1450 Trinity > d 728 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no758/bCP40no758dorses/IMG_0728.htm > Northumb. Elryngton, Simon, of Middx, gent; Prottour or Proctour, Thomas, chaplain, versus Stevenson, Hugh, of Alwentdale, yeoman; Cottysford, Alwentdale, yeoman; Stevenson, John, of Alwentdale, yeoman; Barker, Roger, of Hexham, tanner. Debt. > > 1453 Hilary > d 1335 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no768/bCP40no768dorses/IMG_1335.htm > Middx. Elryngton, Simon, gent versus Smallage, John, of Hakeney, husbandman; Wetwange, Robert, of Dunstan, Northumb, gent; Heron, John, of Forde, Notts, knight; Botell, John, of Greys Inn, Holburn St Andrew, gent; Warde, Thomas, clerk, executor of; (Durant, William, of London, notary). Debt. > > > John Elryngton, esquire > 1440 Easter > d 1596 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no717/bCP40no717dorses/IMG_1596.htm > Middx. Elryngton, John, esq, on his own account, versus Hepehill, Richard, of Etton, Yorks, clerk; Briggefeld, Richard, of North Cave, Yorks, gent; Alverd, William, of Hakeney, Middx, husbandman; Girlyngton, Edmund, of Hakeney, husbandman. Debt. > > > Robert Elryngton, of Elryngton, Northumb, esquire > 1448 Hilary > d 1741 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no748/bCP40no748dorses/IMG_1741.htm > Northumb. Langley, Thomas, Bishop of Durham, executors of; (Alnwick, William, Bishop of Lincoln; Neville, Richard, Earl of Salisbury; Hulme, Nicholas, canon of Derlyngton; Strother, Robert, esq; Corston, Richard, chaplain) versus Wodryngton, Roger, of Wordryngton, esq; Elryngton, Robert, of Elryngton, esq; Bartram, John, of Bottale, knight. Debt. Thank you Vance for all of these, there are some related names which are also of interest to me, eg Girlyngton. I have also found some wills of Elringtons in Northumberland which are at a different social level. Surtees Society. 1906. Wills and inventories from the registry of Durham. P. 3. https://archive.org/stream/willsinvregdupt200surtuoft/willsinvregdupt200surtuoft_djvu.txt This probably should be posted as a new thread, but the will of Simon Elryngton p. 61 of the above document is all about leaving 'olde angell/s". Althought I have been looking into the past for many years I have only recently jumped into the pre 17C period and do not know what is meant by this term. Any info welcomed. Regards Vivienne

On Thursday, April 5, 2007 at 1:25:53 AM UTC+1, Brad Verity wrote: > Paul Beilby Lawley Thompson, 1st Baron Wenlock (1784-1852) has several > descents from Edward I through his paternal line, the Lawleys, > Baronets of Spoonhill, Shropshire. The paternal line of his mother > Jane Thompson goes back to Sir Henry Thompson (c.1625-1683), a wealthy > wine merchant from York who served as Lord Mayor of that city in 1663 > and 1672. But through his Beilby ancestry he has some descents from > Edward III. Three of them from Joan Beaufort are given below. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Thompson%2C_1st_Baron_Wenlock > > Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland (c.1379-1440) had a son (C1) > and 2 daughters (A1 & B1) > > A1) Elizabeth Ferrers, Lady Greystoke (1393-1434), who had > A2) Ralph, 5th Lord Greystoke (c.1414-1487), who had > A3) Sir Robert Greystoke (d. 1483) m. 1) Elizabeth Grey (see B3 > below), and had > A4) Elizabeth Greystoke (1471-1516) m. Thomas, 3rd Lord Dacre > (1467-1525), and had > A5) Elizabeth Dacre m. Thomas Musgrave of Hayton Castle (d. 1532), and > had > A6) William Musgrave of Hayton (c.1521-1597) m. Isabel Martindale, and > had > A7) Eleanor Musgrave (c.1560-1597) m. 1576 Sir Christopher Lowther of > Lowther (1557-1617, descended from Edward III but not thru Joan > Beaufort), and had > A8) Sir John Lowther of Lowther (1582-1637) m. Eleanor Fleming (see C7 > below), and had > A9) Sir John Lowther, 1st Baronet (1606-1675) m. 1) 1626 Mary Fletcher > (d. 1648), and had > A10) Barbara Lowther (1634-1705) m. 1661 John Beilby of Micklethwaite > Grange, Yorks. (1637-1702), and had > A11) Mary Beilby of Micklethwaite Grange (1662-17--) m. 1685 Henry > Thompson of Escrick Hall, Yorks. (1659-1700), and had > A12) Beilby Thompson of Escrick (1686-1750) m. 2) 17-Sarah Roundell > (d. 1773), and had > A13) Jane Thompson (1743-1816) m. 1764 Sir Robert Lawley, 5th Baronet > (1736-1793), and had > A14) Paul Beilby Lawley Thompson, 1st Baron Wenlock (1784-1852) > > B1) Eleanor Nevill, Countess of Northumberland (d. 1473), who had > B2) Katherine Percy , Countess of Kent (1423-1504), who had > B3) Elizabeth Grey (d. 1472) m. Sir Robert Greystoke (see A3 above) > > C1) Richard Nevill, Earl of Salisbury (1400-1460), who had > C2) Richard Nevill 'The Kingmaker' (1428-1471), who had > C3) Margaret Nevill (illeg.) (d.1498) m. 1) 1465 Sir Richard > Huddleston (c.1440-1485), and had > C4) Joan Huddleston (c.1480-1538) m. Hugh Fleming of Rydal (d. 1558), > and had > C5) Anthony Fleming of Rydal (d. 1537/8) m. 2) 1532 Elizabeth Hutton > (d.c.1534), and had > C6) William Fleming of Rydal (c.1534-1598) m. 2) by 1575 Agnes > Bindloss (d. 1631), and had > C7) Eleanor Fleming (c.1583-1659) m. 1602 Sir John Lowther of Lowther > (see A8 above) > > Cheers, ------Brad

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 2:36:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote: <Wouldn't this be a source for Caleb being both the son of Joanna Abell and her <first husband, Robert Abell, and step-son to William Hyde? < < Valerie Your source is correct. Caleb Abell was one of the eight children of the immigrant, Robert Abell, of Rehoboth, Massachusetts [died 1663], and his wife, Joanna. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Hello all. I've hit a little bit of a brick wall in my research, and it seems like this individual has been a brick wall for quite a few people. Helen (or Ellen, I've seen both) Burgoyne, married John Leete, according to the Visitation pedigree on the Leetes, probably around 1526, in Cambridgeshire, England. She died May 18, 1564 in the same place, and on October 10, 1539, Helen/Ellen was described as a "gentlewoman" when she was named as godmother in the baptismal record of Alice Sutton at Toft. Administration on the estate of Helen Leete, widow, of Eversden, was granted to her son Thomas Leete on 2 May 1564. I assume she must have been part of the Burgoyne family in Cambridgeshire, who are also mentioned in a few visitation pedigrees, but her exact parentage is unknown. I've seen it posited by some people that she *may* have been a daughter of Christopher Burgoyne and Thomasine Freville, also of Cambridgeshire, but I don't know what evidence that theory has. I wondered if possibly anyone more familiar with the Visitation pedigrees, or just other branches of the Burgoyne family in the area know of any branch of the family with any Helens in it. I know Helen isn't a very rare name, but it seems uncommon enough at the time that if there were another branch of the Burgoyne family that used it, her parentage may be easier to track down. Anyway, thanks for reading- Nick

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 11:25:26 AM UTC-6, Brian Hessick wrote: > Is there any open source project of transcribing the entirety of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury or an established database of abstracts which can be built upon? That would be a good idea. I know Leslie Mahler added many of his will abstracts from local courts to the GENUKI website. Nathan

Thanks, chaps!

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 11:12:02 AM UTC-7, P J Evans wrote: > Vital Record of Rehoboth, 1642-1896: Marriages, Intentions ..., Volumes 3-4 > P3: 1/44 Abell Joanna and William Hide of New Norwich, June 4, 1667 Yeah, I saw that, but it is an abstraction of the record. It would be great to see what, exactly, was written in the register (if the originals survive). taf