Please help with a good descent from Magna Carta Baron Robert de Vere to Robert Abell. I found all his other Barons' descents with the help of the Royal Ancestry Volumes, but I think my brain is fried. I am getting ready to do a pedigree chart and an ahnentafel report for my son-in-law, plus descendancy charts for his Charlemagne, William Marshal (coolest ancestor ever), and Barons. Thank you and I appreciate this group and all of the great information. Valerie

On Tuesday, 6 June 2017 09:14:47 UTC+1, Andrew Lancaster wrote: > On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 1:46:02 AM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote: > > I would add John M Watson's blog. http://johnmwatson.blogspot.be Thank you Joe. Mostly the blog is stuff that I have posted here, sometimes amended or updated. However, there is a lot of information on the Hotham family of Scorborough for anyone who is researching the family - see the right side bar on the page. Regards, John

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 8:25:22 PM UTC+10, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote: > On 5/06/2017 11:22 PM, John Watson wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I now have a copy of the Feet of Fines for Gloucestershire, 1199-1299 (£5+p&p). The July 1227 fine mentioned by Doug does not seem to exist, however, there is another fine concerning the manor of Tetbury dated August 1221, which mentions Walter de Beauchamp and Bertha, daughter of William de Braose. > > > > There is a pdf scan of the relevant fine here, for those who are interested: - > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77946141/Genealogy%20Notes/CP%2025-1-73-4%20no%2020.pdf > > > > Here is an edited transcription: > > 16 August 1221, Gloucester. Morrow of the Assumption. Walter de Beauchamp (de Bello Campo) petitioner: Reynold de Braose (Breaus) tenant. Half of the manor of Tetbury (Tetebir'), Writ of mort d'ancestor. Reynold acknowledged and granted to Walter £15 of land in the said manor, that is [list of yardlands with tenants]. To hold to Walter in free marriage for the land which William de Braose his [i.e. Walter's] grandfather [avus] gave to Bertha his daughter in marriage, in land and rents in villeinage, with the villeins holding those villeinages with all their families (sequele), and in homage and services of free men, in meadows and common pastures and easements and in all other things belonging to the £15 of land. For this Walter remised and quitclaimed to Reynold the residue of half of the manor. Made in the presence of Robert de Charlton, Walter de Upton, Adam de Charlton, and Ellis le Tailor, who acknowledged that they owed the said services. Endorsed: Glouc' in the fifth year of H[enry III]. Thomasyn. Gloucestr' [Worn] > > CP 25/1/73/4, number 20. > > C. R. Elrington, ed., Abstracts of Feet of Fines relating to Gloucestershire 1199-1299, Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Gloucestershire Record Series, 16 (2003), 23, no. 124. > > > > At first sight it would appear that Bertha, daughter of William de Braose was the wife of Walter de Beauchamp, since he was holding half of Tetbury in free marriage, and in fact the editor of the volume has shown this in the index. However, the fine also states that Walter de Beauchamp was the grandson of William de Braose, so Walter must have been the son of Bertha de Braose. > > > From: Peter Stewart <[email protected]> > Sent: 06 June 2017 01:28 > >> > >> The original is here: > >> > >> http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/CP25(1)/CP25_1_73_4-16/IMG_0104.htm > >> > >> Someone with better eyesight than mine may be able to read exactly what > it says. > >> > >> Peter Stewart > > ------------------------------- > It says (in the fifth and fourth lines up from the bottom): > > ‘Habenda et Tenenda ip[s]i Walt[er]o et h[ere]dib[us] suis ut lib[eru]m > maritag[ium] p[ro] t[er]ra q[ua]m Will[elmu]s d[e] Breaus ...us suus dedit Berte > filie sue in maritag[iu]m' > > The crucial forename is a little unclear, but after comparing it to other > occurrences of Walter and William elsewhere in the document I'm confident it is > 'Will's', not 'Walt'. > > The crucial word describing the relationship between William de Breaus and Walter > isn't legible in the photo (save that it seems to end in 'us'), but can probably > be made out in the original document (especially with the aid of UV light) - I'd > be happy to accept Elrington's reading of it as 'auus'. > > It isn't absolutely clear whether the 'his' in 'filie sue' refers back to William > or Walter., though if I had to choose one way or the other I'd plump for William. Thanks, your eyes are far sharper than mine - pity they didn't opt for higher-definition images. My knowledge of English administratese is negligible. I can see that the scribe has written 'Habenda' with a capital letter but I assume this follows a medial stop and I can't make out where the sense begins, apparently much further back in the text - the question I have is whether 'suus' (after 'avus') refers to Walter de Beauchamp, as Elrington suggested, or to Reynold de Braose. If Walter held the land as Berta's husband then William de Braiose can't have been his grandfather, but he was Reynold's. Peter Stewart

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 1:46:02 AM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote: I would add John M Watson's blog. http://johnmwatson.blogspot.be

On Monday, 5 June 2017 20:19:58 UTC+1, Douglas Richardson wrote: > Dear Newsgroup ~ > > Complete Peerage 11 (1949): 118–119 (sub Ros) has a good account of Sir William de Roos, of Ingmanthorpe (in Kirk Deighton), Yorkshire, who died in 1334. Regarding his marriage, the following information is given: > > "He married, in 1310, Isabel, daughter and co-heiress (eventually heiress) of Richard, son of Richard de Steeton, niece and heiress of Sir Thomas de Steeton, and widow of Robert de Ughtred (died 1310), by whom she was mother of Thomas, 1st Lord Ughtred. He [William de Roos] died before 12 Nov. 1334. His widow was living in 1347." END OF QUOTE. > > Elsewhere the online Discovery Catalogue lists two petitions by Isabel, then widow of William de Roos, of Ingmanthorpe to the king and council. The first one is dated by the archivist as being "between the death of the petitioner's husband in 1334 and the last recorded mention of her in 1348 (Complete Peerage)." Yet as we see above, Isabel is last mentioned by Complete Peerage as being alive in 1347, not 1348. > > Also the petitioner's name is given by an archivist as Isabella in the first Discovery entry, but Isabel in the other. However, when the originals are checked, I find that her name is spelled Isabelle in one original and Isabel in the other. We see here once again where an archivist has resorted to a Latin name form, Isabella, when the vernacular form, Isabel, would have been much more suitable to use. > > The second petition by Isabel is dated to 1348 "as the petition was transcribed by Matthew Hale who ascribed a date of 1348 to the group of petitions amongst which this belongs." Possibly this is how the other petition was dated c.1334-c.1348. > > To date, I've located three Common Pleas lawsuits for Isabel de Steeton as widow of William de Roos as follows: > > 1. In Trinity term 1335 Isabel, widow of William de Ros, of Ingmanthorp, sued Master Simon de Stanes, clerk, and Simon his son regarding the third part of lands in Cattall Magna (in Hunsingore), Yorkshire, which she claimed as her dower. > > Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/303, image 54f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no303/aCP40no303fronts/IMG_0054.htm). > > 2. In Hilary term 1336 Isabel, widow of William le Ros, of Ingmanthorpe, sued William son of John Gra, of York, regarding land in Steeton (in Bolton-Percy), Yorkshire. > > Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/305, image 572d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no305/bCP40no305dorses/IMG_0572.htm). > > See also Wrottesley, Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls (1905):29; Yorkshire Deeds 2 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Recs. 50) (1914): 121. > > 3. In Michaelmas term 1361 Thomas Ughtred, Knt. sued [?Amice] Ughtred and William Gryvell, executors of the will of Isabel, widow of William de Roos, of Ingmanthorpe, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £100. > > Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/407, image 31f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/E3/CP40no407/aCP40no407fronts/IMG_0031.htm). > > Reviewing the above, we see that Isabel de Steeton had lawsuits in 1335 and 1336. She was living as late as 1348 (date of her petition). Isabel died testate sometime before Michaelmas term 1361, when her son and heir, Sir Thomas Ughtred, sued her executors. > > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah > > + + + + + + + + > Source: Online Discovery catalogue > > 1. Reference: SC 8/138/6853 > > Description: > Petitioners: Isabella Roos (Ros), widow of William de Roos of Ingmanthorp. > Name(s): Roos (Ros), Isabella > Addressees: King and council. > Nature of request: Petition concerning rights to land. > Nature of endorsement: Let it be held over to the next parliament. > Places mentioned: Steeton, [West Riding of Yorkshire]; York. > People mentioned: William [Gra], son of John Gra of York; John Gra of York Thomas de Steneton (Steeton), uncle of the petitioner; William de Roos (Ros), husband of the petitioner. > Note: Datable between the death of the petitioner's husband in 1334 and the last recorded mention of her in 1348 (Complete Peerage). > Date: [c. 1334-c. 1348] > > > 2. Reference: SC 8/171/8521 > > Description: > Petitioners: Isabel de Roos (Ros), widow of William de Roos of Ingmanthorpe. > Name(s): de Roos (Ros), Isabel > Addressees: King and council. > Nature of request: [The petition is damaged and the full sense of the petition is not clear].Roos requests that the roll of her plea for certain lands and tenements in Steventon be brought and viewed and considering the statute of W. . . that the justices go to judgment according to the effect of the statute. She brought a writ of formdon in reverter against York but he claimed that her uncle had granted the same lands to his father and called her to warranty.1) > Nature of endorsement: The bishop of Chichester, the earl of Devon, the earl of Huntingdon, lord Wake, Thomas de Berkeley are to be assigned by commission to determine the pleas that are sent into parliament out of the Bench.2) The record is to be brought into parliament, and the parties if they wish, and their arguments are to be heard, and let discussion be made. > Places mentioned: Ingmanthorpe, [West Riding of Yorkshire]; Steeton, [West Riding of Yorkshire]. > People mentioned: William Deverwyk (York); Thomas de Steventon (Steeton), knight, uncle of the petitioner; John de Stonore (Stonor); [Robert Stratford], bishop of Chichester; [Hugh de Courtenay], Earl of Devon; [William de Clinton], Earl of Huntingdon; Lord Wake; Thomas de Berkeley. > Note: The petition is dated to 1348 as the petition was transcribed by Matthew Hale who ascribed a date of 1348 to the group of petitions amongst which this belongs (Rot. Parl., vol. II, p.195b (no.81)). > Date: [1348] > Related material: > For a related petition see SC 8/138/6853 > Held by: The National Archives, Kew > Legal status: Public Record(s) > Language: French > Closure status: Open Document, Open Description > Access conditions: Open on Transfer > Publication note: > Rotuli Parliamentorum; ut et Petitiones, et Placita in Parliamento, vol. II, Edw III p.195b (no.81) (full edition of later copy of original petition). Dear Douglas, Both petitions appear to have been made before May 1344: - 3 May 1344, To John de Stonore. Whereas a plea has long been pending before him and his fellows, justices of the Bench, by the king's writ, de forma donacionis, between Isabel late wife of William de Roos of Ingmanthorp, demandant, and William son of John Gra of York, tenant, concerning 16 messuages, 11 bovates, 8 acres of land and 3 acres of meadow in Steveton, and although the king several times ordered the justices to associate themselves with the chancellor, justiciary and others of the council, and after viewing the statute de formis donacionum to proceed to the final discussion of that affair without delay, yet for some insufficient causes, it is said, they have not cared to execute that order hitherto: the king therefore orders John to cause the tenor of the process of that affair held before him and his fellows to come before the king and his council in the next parliament at Westminster, so that after it has been examined what pertains to the law and custom of the realm may be ordained for the final discussion thereof without further prosecution. Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward III, vol. 7: 1343-1346 (1904), 365. Regards, John

Please send. Thanks. R.DeRoos

Yes, it was a great time, Ken and Matt. I have to say this news group has brought some great people into my life and on coming to England I was very happy to meet Ken Rolston and Matt Tompkins personally and spend a good part of the day last week in Leicester with both of them. I also got to spend time with Ken at Horncastle and Scrivelsby viewing the terms of my Dymoke ancestors and meeting Gail Dymoke herself, the wife of the current Queen's Champion. I also had the great opportunity today to visit Westminster Abbey and to see the tombs of the Plantagenet kings who are ancestral it to a good majority of us in this news group. It makes me very grateful for the hard work you all do and the submissions that you make to this group. I have learned a lot and coming to England has brought it all around full circle!! Steve Riggan Sent from my iPhone >> On Jun 5, 2017, at 11:45 PM, Ken Rolston <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On Saturday, 30 April 2016 15:49:03 UTC+1, Ken Rolston wrote: >> Back in March 2014 we were discussing in this forum the rather intricate complexities of the Rowlstons of Tanshelf branch in Yorkshire and their marriages with Copleys and Bosviles and Cressy, etc. Following Terry Booth's excellent proposal of 3 x Edward Rowlstons in succession for the family at Cridling Stubbs in Womersley parish, I posted a lot of detail in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 1" and more about the connections to Goodrickes at their moiety of Nether Toynton in Lincolnshire, in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 2". We discussed our interpretations of the Rowlston marriage to Anne Goodricke, by which Nether Toynton first came to the Rowlstons. >> >> Since then I have been concentrating on refining the details and have hopefully resolved many of the questions that concerned us at that time. I agree now with Terry that Edward Rowlston who married Anne Goodricke was not of the Watnall branch, but was son of Edward (I) Rowlston and Mabel Anne at Cridling Stubbs. >> There was also discussion about Edward Rowlston of Nether Toynton who received all of the Watnall estates by bequest from Lancelot Rolleston of Watnall in 1685, through whom the Toynton and Watnall branches combined. The identity of that Edward of Toynton was questionable, Burke, following errors in Visitations, defined him as son of Philip Rolleston of Watnall and Frances Pierrepont. I have now proved that to be wrong. I have identified a number of errors in the family's previous pedigrees and have pinned down the identity of Edward of Toynton. I have tentatively integrated Vance Meade's data from the Close Rolls about John & Isabell Roulston at Pontefract who might provide the connection between Swarkeston manor and Tanshelf around 1483. >> As I feared at the time, this has radically changed the generally accepted lineage of the Rollestons at Watnall, of whom the post-1687 family have a different ancestry to those at Watnall pre-1685. >> I have to confess that much of the interpretation about individuals and family lineages in the Part 2 post of March 2014 is superseded and I strongly recommend that conclusions derived from that post should be scrapped. >> >> I have written all of this into a research paper that I would like to present to any on this forum who may be interested to follow through with the story. The paper runs to 59 pages including 6 pedigree charts and cannot be posted here. I have placed it into DropBox and provide the link here for anyone to access it to view or download. The paper is titled: "The Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall, a Re-Evaluation - 2nd Draft". It remains in draft form until I have found supporting data for the Swarkeston-Tanshelf connection and for the proof of identity of Thomas Rowlston who received the conveyance of Nether Toynton from Anne Goodricke in 1606 and thus became ancestral to Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall. The charts define the revised lineage from around 1370 when Rollestons branched off to Swarkeston and from there to Tanshelf, then onward to Nether Toynton and finally Watnall. As this is still a draft, there are likely to be further changes in future as I gathe! r more detail, and some of the charts will be revised, but I believe I am now much closer to a correct definition of these family lines. >> >> In 7 chapters, the paper discusses: >> History of Nether Toynton and how it came to the Rollestons. >> Rolleston of Watnall Chaworth, the direct family line. >> Rolleston of Swarkeston manor in Derbs. >> Rowlston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Yorks. >> The transfer of Nether Toynton manor to Thomas Rowlston. >> Rowlston of Toynton, inheritors of Watnall and progenitors of the post-1687 Watnall branch. >> Conclusions regarding the re-evaluated Watnall branch. >> There is also an Appendix providing a summary description of each of the 11 x Thomas, 10 x Edward and 6 x Lancelot that come into the story. >> >> Please note that this paper is only about the Rolstons of Tanshelf descended from Lyonell (II), mercer of Pontefract, and is not concerned with the other Rolstons descended from his father Lyonell (I) who were involved with Copleys, Cressys, etc. That substantial other half of the Tanshelf branch will be discussed in a future research paper. >> >> Here is the link to the pdf file in DropBox: >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgs41be16c5wc37/Toynton%20%26%20Watnall%20re-evaluation.pdf?dl=0 >> >> Happy reading..... >> Ken Rolston. > > Yes, I have a note of that marriage settlement, ref DD/1355/65, to be viewed and copied. > There are quite a number of Rolleston of Watnall documents at Notts Archives, many of which I have investigated. > > During this past week I have been in the Midlands, at Lincoln and Leicester, met up with and greatly enjoyed the company of Steve Riggan and Matt Tompkins. > > At Lincs Archives I found the will of Henry Sapcote 1553. The reference under "Various Wills" was unknown to the archivist but he found it after a lengthy search. It is quite a long will and I expect shall take quite some time to transcribe. I shall post it to sgm in response to your earlier query, but give me time to work on it. > The same volume had the will of Edward Sapcote 1578, Henry's eldest son and George Chippingdale 1579, Alice's brother. > > At Lincoln castle I was fortunate to view the Domesday Book, on loan there until September, also Lincoln's original of Magna Carta and the Charter of the Forest. In Lincoln cathedral I was surprised to find the beautiful tomb and effigy of Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I, her effigy carved in black stone. > > At Leicester, the 3 of us saw the excellent exhibition of the discovery and recovery of the remains of Richard III and in the cathedral his marvellous tomb of fossiliferous limestone. These are all very much worth visiting for any sgm readers who may get the opportunity, highly recommended. > > Ken. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tuesday, 6 June 2017 06:11:55 UTC+1, The Hoorn wrote: > Correction: I meant to ask: > > Speaking of Beauchamp marriages, has anyone found anyexplicit evidence that Em(m)eline was the daughter of Urse d'Abitot? William de Beauchamp (died 1170) confirmed Walter his father's grant of land and tithes to Worcester Cathedral priory, including a virgate of land held by Alfred, chaplain of Urse d'Abetot, his grandfather. William's mother was a daughter of Urse d'Abetot, but I have not seen any contemporary evidence that her name was Emmeline. Dugdale identified her from a register of the dean and chapter of Worcester which is now lost. Willelmus de Bello campo omnibus ministris suis et ballivis de Wirecestre scira salutem, Sciatis me concessise et confirmasse donationem illam, quam pater meus Walterus fecit Priori et Monachis de Wirecestria de una virgata terrae quam Elfredus capellanus Ursonis de Abbetot avi mei tenuit. Et volo, ut teneant eam liberam et quietam de geldis et omnibus secularibus exactionibus, sicut elemosinam patris mei et matris meae. T. Isnardo, Rogero de Lenz &c.' William Hale Hale, Registrum sive Liber Irrotularius et Consuetudinarius Prioratus Beatae Mariae Wigorniensis (London, 1865), 92a. Regards, John

Correction: I meant to ask: Speaking of Beauchamp marriages, has anyone found anyexplicit evidence that Em(m)eline was the daughter of Urse d'Abitot?

Speaking of Beauchamp marriages, has anyone found no explicit evidence that Em(m)eline was the daughter of Urse d'Abitot?

Dear Newsgroup ~ Here's an additional legal action for Isabel de Steeton, widow of Sir William de Roos: In Michaelmas 1341 Isabel, widow of William [de] Ros, of Ingmanthorpe, brought a writ of formedon in the reverter against W. Graa, of York, on which was pleaded in bar the feoffment of one Thomas, the demandant’s ancestor, with warranty. Reference: Pike, Year Books of Edward III: Year XV 6 (Rolls Ser. 31b) (1891): 388–395, which may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=VL9KAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA388 Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

It is great to hear that the three of you from the forum were able to get together and enjoy each others company, and it sounds like you were able to visit a number of fantastic sites. Ken, that is great that you were able to view and photograph a copy of the will of Henry Sapcote, and it is very kind of you to post it to SGM when you have transcribed it. Jordan. On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 10:49:03 AM UTC-4, Ken Rolston wrote: > Back in March 2014 we were discussing in this forum the rather intricate complexities of the Rowlstons of Tanshelf branch in Yorkshire and their marriages with Copleys and Bosviles and Cressy, etc. Following Terry Booth's excellent proposal of 3 x Edward Rowlstons in succession for the family at Cridling Stubbs in Womersley parish, I posted a lot of detail in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 1" and more about the connections to Goodrickes at their moiety of Nether Toynton in Lincolnshire, in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 2". We discussed our interpretations of the Rowlston marriage to Anne Goodricke, by which Nether Toynton first came to the Rowlstons. > > Since then I have been concentrating on refining the details and have hopefully resolved many of the questions that concerned us at that time. I agree now with Terry that Edward Rowlston who married Anne Goodricke was not of the Watnall branch, but was son of Edward (I) Rowlston and Mabel Anne at Cridling Stubbs. > There was also discussion about Edward Rowlston of Nether Toynton who received all of the Watnall estates by bequest from Lancelot Rolleston of Watnall in 1685, through whom the Toynton and Watnall branches combined. The identity of that Edward of Toynton was questionable, Burke, following errors in Visitations, defined him as son of Philip Rolleston of Watnall and Frances Pierrepont. I have now proved that to be wrong. I have identified a number of errors in the family's previous pedigrees and have pinned down the identity of Edward of Toynton. I have tentatively integrated Vance Meade's data from the Close Rolls about John & Isabell Roulston at Pontefract who might provide the connection between Swarkeston manor and Tanshelf around 1483. > As I feared at the time, this has radically changed the generally accepted lineage of the Rollestons at Watnall, of whom the post-1687 family have a different ancestry to those at Watnall pre-1685. > I have to confess that much of the interpretation about individuals and family lineages in the Part 2 post of March 2014 is superseded and I strongly recommend that conclusions derived from that post should be scrapped. > > I have written all of this into a research paper that I would like to present to any on this forum who may be interested to follow through with the story. The paper runs to 59 pages including 6 pedigree charts and cannot be posted here. I have placed it into DropBox and provide the link here for anyone to access it to view or download. The paper is titled: "The Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall, a Re-Evaluation - 2nd Draft". It remains in draft form until I have found supporting data for the Swarkeston-Tanshelf connection and for the proof of identity of Thomas Rowlston who received the conveyance of Nether Toynton from Anne Goodricke in 1606 and thus became ancestral to Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall. The charts define the revised lineage from around 1370 when Rollestons branched off to Swarkeston and from there to Tanshelf, then onward to Nether Toynton and finally Watnall. As this is still a draft, there are likely to be further changes in future as I gather more detail, and some of the charts will be revised, but I believe I am now much closer to a correct definition of these family lines. > > In 7 chapters, the paper discusses: > History of Nether Toynton and how it came to the Rollestons. > Rolleston of Watnall Chaworth, the direct family line. > Rolleston of Swarkeston manor in Derbs. > Rowlston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Yorks. > The transfer of Nether Toynton manor to Thomas Rowlston. > Rowlston of Toynton, inheritors of Watnall and progenitors of the post-1687 Watnall branch. > Conclusions regarding the re-evaluated Watnall branch. > There is also an Appendix providing a summary description of each of the 11 x Thomas, 10 x Edward and 6 x Lancelot that come into the story. > > Please note that this paper is only about the Rolstons of Tanshelf descended from Lyonell (II), mercer of Pontefract, and is not concerned with the other Rolstons descended from his father Lyonell (I) who were involved with Copleys, Cressys, etc. That substantial other half of the Tanshelf branch will be discussed in a future research paper. > > Here is the link to the pdf file in DropBox: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgs41be16c5wc37/Toynton%20%26%20Watnall%20re-evaluation.pdf?dl=0 > > Happy reading..... > Ken Rolston.

I was wondering if anyone had a list of favorite genealogy and especially medieval genealogy bloggers online. I liked to read Martin Hollick, Brad Verity, and Nat Taylor's blog, but all three are now on hiatus. Most of the online blogs are either think veiled advertisements or mostly uninteresting fluff. Vita-brevis is a bright spot for New England genealogy, and I peruse Dick Eastmans site from time to time,but that's all that is on my radar and I wanted to hear from the group. Thanks, Joe c

On Saturday, 30 April 2016 15:49:03 UTC+1, Ken Rolston wrote: > Back in March 2014 we were discussing in this forum the rather intricate complexities of the Rowlstons of Tanshelf branch in Yorkshire and their marriages with Copleys and Bosviles and Cressy, etc. Following Terry Booth's excellent proposal of 3 x Edward Rowlstons in succession for the family at Cridling Stubbs in Womersley parish, I posted a lot of detail in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 1" and more about the connections to Goodrickes at their moiety of Nether Toynton in Lincolnshire, in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 2". We discussed our interpretations of the Rowlston marriage to Anne Goodricke, by which Nether Toynton first came to the Rowlstons. > > Since then I have been concentrating on refining the details and have hopefully resolved many of the questions that concerned us at that time. I agree now with Terry that Edward Rowlston who married Anne Goodricke was not of the Watnall branch, but was son of Edward (I) Rowlston and Mabel Anne at Cridling Stubbs. > There was also discussion about Edward Rowlston of Nether Toynton who received all of the Watnall estates by bequest from Lancelot Rolleston of Watnall in 1685, through whom the Toynton and Watnall branches combined. The identity of that Edward of Toynton was questionable, Burke, following errors in Visitations, defined him as son of Philip Rolleston of Watnall and Frances Pierrepont. I have now proved that to be wrong. I have identified a number of errors in the family's previous pedigrees and have pinned down the identity of Edward of Toynton. I have tentatively integrated Vance Meade's data from the Close Rolls about John & Isabell Roulston at Pontefract who might provide the connection between Swarkeston manor and Tanshelf around 1483. > As I feared at the time, this has radically changed the generally accepted lineage of the Rollestons at Watnall, of whom the post-1687 family have a different ancestry to those at Watnall pre-1685. > I have to confess that much of the interpretation about individuals and family lineages in the Part 2 post of March 2014 is superseded and I strongly recommend that conclusions derived from that post should be scrapped. > > I have written all of this into a research paper that I would like to present to any on this forum who may be interested to follow through with the story. The paper runs to 59 pages including 6 pedigree charts and cannot be posted here. I have placed it into DropBox and provide the link here for anyone to access it to view or download. The paper is titled: "The Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall, a Re-Evaluation - 2nd Draft". It remains in draft form until I have found supporting data for the Swarkeston-Tanshelf connection and for the proof of identity of Thomas Rowlston who received the conveyance of Nether Toynton from Anne Goodricke in 1606 and thus became ancestral to Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall. The charts define the revised lineage from around 1370 when Rollestons branched off to Swarkeston and from there to Tanshelf, then onward to Nether Toynton and finally Watnall. As this is still a draft, there are likely to be further changes in future as I gather more detail, and some of the charts will be revised, but I believe I am now much closer to a correct definition of these family lines. > > In 7 chapters, the paper discusses: > History of Nether Toynton and how it came to the Rollestons. > Rolleston of Watnall Chaworth, the direct family line. > Rolleston of Swarkeston manor in Derbs. > Rowlston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Yorks. > The transfer of Nether Toynton manor to Thomas Rowlston. > Rowlston of Toynton, inheritors of Watnall and progenitors of the post-1687 Watnall branch. > Conclusions regarding the re-evaluated Watnall branch. > There is also an Appendix providing a summary description of each of the 11 x Thomas, 10 x Edward and 6 x Lancelot that come into the story. > > Please note that this paper is only about the Rolstons of Tanshelf descended from Lyonell (II), mercer of Pontefract, and is not concerned with the other Rolstons descended from his father Lyonell (I) who were involved with Copleys, Cressys, etc. That substantial other half of the Tanshelf branch will be discussed in a future research paper. > > Here is the link to the pdf file in DropBox: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgs41be16c5wc37/Toynton%20%26%20Watnall%20re-evaluation.pdf?dl=0 > > Happy reading..... > Ken Rolston. Yes, I have a note of that marriage settlement, ref DD/1355/65, to be viewed and copied. There are quite a number of Rolleston of Watnall documents at Notts Archives, many of which I have investigated. During this past week I have been in the Midlands, at Lincoln and Leicester, met up with and greatly enjoyed the company of Steve Riggan and Matt Tompkins. At Lincs Archives I found the will of Henry Sapcote 1553. The reference under "Various Wills" was unknown to the archivist but he found it after a lengthy search. It is quite a long will and I expect shall take quite some time to transcribe. I shall post it to sgm in response to your earlier query, but give me time to work on it. The same volume had the will of Edward Sapcote 1578, Henry's eldest son and George Chippingdale 1579, Alice's brother. At Lincoln castle I was fortunate to view the Domesday Book, on loan there until September, also Lincoln's original of Magna Carta and the Charter of the Forest. In Lincoln cathedral I was surprised to find the beautiful tomb and effigy of Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I, her effigy carved in black stone. At Leicester, the 3 of us saw the excellent exhibition of the discovery and recovery of the remains of Richard III and in the cathedral his marvellous tomb of fossiliferous limestone. These are all very much worth visiting for any sgm readers who may get the opportunity, highly recommended. Ken.

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:56:05 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote: > On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 8:17:37 PM UTC+1, taf wrote: > > Just to be clear, the text you ask about are sources, so GX 385 is > > presumably p. 385 in Harley 1969 (which Barton abbreviated as GX). > > What is Harley 1969? This is Harleian ms. 1969, which is described here: https://books.google.com/books?id=jWVoAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA35 taf

Dear Newsgroup ~ Complete Peerage 11 (1949): 118–119 (sub Ros) has a good account of Sir William de Roos, of Ingmanthorpe (in Kirk Deighton), Yorkshire, who died in 1334. Regarding his marriage, the following information is given: "He married, in 1310, Isabel, daughter and co-heiress (eventually heiress) of Richard, son of Richard de Steeton, niece and heiress of Sir Thomas de Steeton, and widow of Robert de Ughtred (died 1310), by whom she was mother of Thomas, 1st Lord Ughtred. He [William de Roos] died before 12 Nov. 1334. His widow was living in 1347." END OF QUOTE. Elsewhere the online Discovery Catalogue lists two petitions by Isabel, then widow of William de Roos, of Ingmanthorpe to the king and council. The first one is dated by the archivist as being "between the death of the petitioner's husband in 1334 and the last recorded mention of her in 1348 (Complete Peerage)." Yet as we see above, Isabel is last mentioned by Complete Peerage as being alive in 1347, not 1348. Also the petitioner's name is given by an archivist as Isabella in the first Discovery entry, but Isabel in the other. However, when the originals are checked, I find that her name is spelled Isabelle in one original and Isabel in the other. We see here once again where an archivist has resorted to a Latin name form, Isabella, when the vernacular form, Isabel, would have been much more suitable to use. The second petition by Isabel is dated to 1348 "as the petition was transcribed by Matthew Hale who ascribed a date of 1348 to the group of petitions amongst which this belongs." Possibly this is how the other petition was dated c.1334-c.1348. To date, I've located three Common Pleas lawsuits for Isabel de Steeton as widow of William de Roos as follows: 1. In Trinity term 1335 Isabel, widow of William de Ros, of Ingmanthorp, sued Master Simon de Stanes, clerk, and Simon his son regarding the third part of lands in Cattall Magna (in Hunsingore), Yorkshire, which she claimed as her dower. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/303, image 54f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no303/aCP40no303fronts/IMG_0054.htm). 2. In Hilary term 1336 Isabel, widow of William le Ros, of Ingmanthorpe, sued William son of John Gra, of York, regarding land in Steeton (in Bolton-Percy), Yorkshire. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/305, image 572d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no305/bCP40no305dorses/IMG_0572.htm). See also Wrottesley, Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls (1905):29; Yorkshire Deeds 2 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Recs. 50) (1914): 121. 3. In Michaelmas term 1361 Thomas Ughtred, Knt. sued [?Amice] Ughtred and William Gryvell, executors of the will of Isabel, widow of William de Roos, of Ingmanthorpe, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £100. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/407, image 31f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/E3/CP40no407/aCP40no407fronts/IMG_0031.htm). Reviewing the above, we see that Isabel de Steeton had lawsuits in 1335 and 1336. She was living as late as 1348 (date of her petition). Isabel died testate sometime before Michaelmas term 1361, when her son and heir, Sir Thomas Ughtred, sued her executors. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah + + + + + + + + Source: Online Discovery catalogue 1. Reference: SC 8/138/6853 Description: Petitioners: Isabella Roos (Ros), widow of William de Roos of Ingmanthorp. Name(s): Roos (Ros), Isabella Addressees: King and council. Nature of request: Petition concerning rights to land. Nature of endorsement: Let it be held over to the next parliament. Places mentioned: Steeton, [West Riding of Yorkshire]; York. People mentioned: William [Gra], son of John Gra of York; John Gra of York Thomas de Steneton (Steeton), uncle of the petitioner; William de Roos (Ros), husband of the petitioner. Note: Datable between the death of the petitioner's husband in 1334 and the last recorded mention of her in 1348 (Complete Peerage). Date: [c. 1334-c. 1348] 2. Reference: SC 8/171/8521 Description: Petitioners: Isabel de Roos (Ros), widow of William de Roos of Ingmanthorpe. Name(s): de Roos (Ros), Isabel Addressees: King and council. Nature of request: [The petition is damaged and the full sense of the petition is not clear].Roos requests that the roll of her plea for certain lands and tenements in Steventon be brought and viewed and considering the statute of W. . . that the justices go to judgment according to the effect of the statute. She brought a writ of formdon in reverter against York but he claimed that her uncle had granted the same lands to his father and called her to warranty.1) Nature of endorsement: The bishop of Chichester, the earl of Devon, the earl of Huntingdon, lord Wake, Thomas de Berkeley are to be assigned by commission to determine the pleas that are sent into parliament out of the Bench.2) The record is to be brought into parliament, and the parties if they wish, and their arguments are to be heard, and let discussion be made. Places mentioned: Ingmanthorpe, [West Riding of Yorkshire]; Steeton, [West Riding of Yorkshire]. People mentioned: William Deverwyk (York); Thomas de Steventon (Steeton), knight, uncle of the petitioner; John de Stonore (Stonor); [Robert Stratford], bishop of Chichester; [Hugh de Courtenay], Earl of Devon; [William de Clinton], Earl of Huntingdon; Lord Wake; Thomas de Berkeley. Note: The petition is dated to 1348 as the petition was transcribed by Matthew Hale who ascribed a date of 1348 to the group of petitions amongst which this belongs (Rot. Parl., vol. II, p.195b (no.81)). Date: [1348] Related material: For a related petition see SC 8/138/6853 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Language: French Closure status: Open Document, Open Description Access conditions: Open on Transfer Publication note: Rotuli Parliamentorum; ut et Petitiones, et Placita in Parliamento, vol. II, Edw III p.195b (no.81) (full edition of later copy of original petition).

Sorry, within the last post it should have read: Alice Sapcote's first husband Henry Sapcote not "Alice Sapcote which revealed that she was the first wife of Henry Sapcote." Henry was previously married to Jane Smyth. Jordan. On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 2:57:12 PM UTC-4, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > Ken, > > Within the same collection at the Nottingham archives was also the marriage settlement between William Goodrick and Alice Sapcote which revealed that she was the first wife of Henry Sapcote. Poking around the catalogue entries for the contents of the collection to see if there was any other Sapcote or Goodrick related documents is how I stumbled across these, so there may others relevant to you there as well. I just posted the entries in the Rolleston folder and the one that referred to Nether Toynton outside of the Rolleston folder. > > Cheers, > Jordan. > > > On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 10:49:03 AM UTC-4, Ken Rolston wrote: > > Back in March 2014 we were discussing in this forum the rather intricate complexities of the Rowlstons of Tanshelf branch in Yorkshire and their marriages with Copleys and Bosviles and Cressy, etc. Following Terry Booth's excellent proposal of 3 x Edward Rowlstons in succession for the family at Cridling Stubbs in Womersley parish, I posted a lot of detail in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 1" and more about the connections to Goodrickes at their moiety of Nether Toynton in Lincolnshire, in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 2". We discussed our interpretations of the Rowlston marriage to Anne Goodricke, by which Nether Toynton first came to the Rowlstons. > > > > Since then I have been concentrating on refining the details and have hopefully resolved many of the questions that concerned us at that time. I agree now with Terry that Edward Rowlston who married Anne Goodricke was not of the Watnall branch, but was son of Edward (I) Rowlston and Mabel Anne at Cridling Stubbs. > > There was also discussion about Edward Rowlston of Nether Toynton who received all of the Watnall estates by bequest from Lancelot Rolleston of Watnall in 1685, through whom the Toynton and Watnall branches combined. The identity of that Edward of Toynton was questionable, Burke, following errors in Visitations, defined him as son of Philip Rolleston of Watnall and Frances Pierrepont. I have now proved that to be wrong. I have identified a number of errors in the family's previous pedigrees and have pinned down the identity of Edward of Toynton. I have tentatively integrated Vance Meade's data from the Close Rolls about John & Isabell Roulston at Pontefract who might provide the connection between Swarkeston manor and Tanshelf around 1483. > > As I feared at the time, this has radically changed the generally accepted lineage of the Rollestons at Watnall, of whom the post-1687 family have a different ancestry to those at Watnall pre-1685. > > I have to confess that much of the interpretation about individuals and family lineages in the Part 2 post of March 2014 is superseded and I strongly recommend that conclusions derived from that post should be scrapped. > > > > I have written all of this into a research paper that I would like to present to any on this forum who may be interested to follow through with the story. The paper runs to 59 pages including 6 pedigree charts and cannot be posted here. I have placed it into DropBox and provide the link here for anyone to access it to view or download. The paper is titled: "The Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall, a Re-Evaluation - 2nd Draft". It remains in draft form until I have found supporting data for the Swarkeston-Tanshelf connection and for the proof of identity of Thomas Rowlston who received the conveyance of Nether Toynton from Anne Goodricke in 1606 and thus became ancestral to Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall. The charts define the revised lineage from around 1370 when Rollestons branched off to Swarkeston and from there to Tanshelf, then onward to Nether Toynton and finally Watnall. As this is still a draft, there are likely to be further changes in future as I gather more detail, and some of the charts will be revised, but I believe I am now much closer to a correct definition of these family lines. > > > > In 7 chapters, the paper discusses: > > History of Nether Toynton and how it came to the Rollestons. > > Rolleston of Watnall Chaworth, the direct family line. > > Rolleston of Swarkeston manor in Derbs. > > Rowlston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Yorks. > > The transfer of Nether Toynton manor to Thomas Rowlston. > > Rowlston of Toynton, inheritors of Watnall and progenitors of the post-1687 Watnall branch. > > Conclusions regarding the re-evaluated Watnall branch. > > There is also an Appendix providing a summary description of each of the 11 x Thomas, 10 x Edward and 6 x Lancelot that come into the story. > > > > Please note that this paper is only about the Rolstons of Tanshelf descended from Lyonell (II), mercer of Pontefract, and is not concerned with the other Rolstons descended from his father Lyonell (I) who were involved with Copleys, Cressys, etc. That substantial other half of the Tanshelf branch will be discussed in a future research paper. > > > > Here is the link to the pdf file in DropBox: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgs41be16c5wc37/Toynton%20%26%20Watnall%20re-evaluation.pdf?dl=0 > > > > Happy reading..... > > Ken Rolston.

Ken, Within the same collection at the Nottingham archives was also the marriage settlement between William Goodrick and Alice Sapcote which revealed that she was the first wife of Henry Sapcote. Poking around the catalogue entries for the contents of the collection to see if there was any other Sapcote or Goodrick related documents is how I stumbled across these, so there may others relevant to you there as well. I just posted the entries in the Rolleston folder and the one that referred to Nether Toynton outside of the Rolleston folder. Cheers, Jordan. On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 10:49:03 AM UTC-4, Ken Rolston wrote: > Back in March 2014 we were discussing in this forum the rather intricate complexities of the Rowlstons of Tanshelf branch in Yorkshire and their marriages with Copleys and Bosviles and Cressy, etc. Following Terry Booth's excellent proposal of 3 x Edward Rowlstons in succession for the family at Cridling Stubbs in Womersley parish, I posted a lot of detail in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 1" and more about the connections to Goodrickes at their moiety of Nether Toynton in Lincolnshire, in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 2". We discussed our interpretations of the Rowlston marriage to Anne Goodricke, by which Nether Toynton first came to the Rowlstons. > > Since then I have been concentrating on refining the details and have hopefully resolved many of the questions that concerned us at that time. I agree now with Terry that Edward Rowlston who married Anne Goodricke was not of the Watnall branch, but was son of Edward (I) Rowlston and Mabel Anne at Cridling Stubbs. > There was also discussion about Edward Rowlston of Nether Toynton who received all of the Watnall estates by bequest from Lancelot Rolleston of Watnall in 1685, through whom the Toynton and Watnall branches combined. The identity of that Edward of Toynton was questionable, Burke, following errors in Visitations, defined him as son of Philip Rolleston of Watnall and Frances Pierrepont. I have now proved that to be wrong. I have identified a number of errors in the family's previous pedigrees and have pinned down the identity of Edward of Toynton. I have tentatively integrated Vance Meade's data from the Close Rolls about John & Isabell Roulston at Pontefract who might provide the connection between Swarkeston manor and Tanshelf around 1483. > As I feared at the time, this has radically changed the generally accepted lineage of the Rollestons at Watnall, of whom the post-1687 family have a different ancestry to those at Watnall pre-1685. > I have to confess that much of the interpretation about individuals and family lineages in the Part 2 post of March 2014 is superseded and I strongly recommend that conclusions derived from that post should be scrapped. > > I have written all of this into a research paper that I would like to present to any on this forum who may be interested to follow through with the story. The paper runs to 59 pages including 6 pedigree charts and cannot be posted here. I have placed it into DropBox and provide the link here for anyone to access it to view or download. The paper is titled: "The Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall, a Re-Evaluation - 2nd Draft". It remains in draft form until I have found supporting data for the Swarkeston-Tanshelf connection and for the proof of identity of Thomas Rowlston who received the conveyance of Nether Toynton from Anne Goodricke in 1606 and thus became ancestral to Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall. The charts define the revised lineage from around 1370 when Rollestons branched off to Swarkeston and from there to Tanshelf, then onward to Nether Toynton and finally Watnall. As this is still a draft, there are likely to be further changes in future as I gather more detail, and some of the charts will be revised, but I believe I am now much closer to a correct definition of these family lines. > > In 7 chapters, the paper discusses: > History of Nether Toynton and how it came to the Rollestons. > Rolleston of Watnall Chaworth, the direct family line. > Rolleston of Swarkeston manor in Derbs. > Rowlston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Yorks. > The transfer of Nether Toynton manor to Thomas Rowlston. > Rowlston of Toynton, inheritors of Watnall and progenitors of the post-1687 Watnall branch. > Conclusions regarding the re-evaluated Watnall branch. > There is also an Appendix providing a summary description of each of the 11 x Thomas, 10 x Edward and 6 x Lancelot that come into the story. > > Please note that this paper is only about the Rolstons of Tanshelf descended from Lyonell (II), mercer of Pontefract, and is not concerned with the other Rolstons descended from his father Lyonell (I) who were involved with Copleys, Cressys, etc. That substantial other half of the Tanshelf branch will be discussed in a future research paper. > > Here is the link to the pdf file in DropBox: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgs41be16c5wc37/Toynton%20%26%20Watnall%20re-evaluation.pdf?dl=0 > > Happy reading..... > Ken Rolston.

On Saturday, 30 April 2016 15:49:03 UTC+1, Ken Rolston wrote: > Back in March 2014 we were discussing in this forum the rather intricate complexities of the Rowlstons of Tanshelf branch in Yorkshire and their marriages with Copleys and Bosviles and Cressy, etc. Following Terry Booth's excellent proposal of 3 x Edward Rowlstons in succession for the family at Cridling Stubbs in Womersley parish, I posted a lot of detail in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 1" and more about the connections to Goodrickes at their moiety of Nether Toynton in Lincolnshire, in "Rolston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Part 2". We discussed our interpretations of the Rowlston marriage to Anne Goodricke, by which Nether Toynton first came to the Rowlstons. > > Since then I have been concentrating on refining the details and have hopefully resolved many of the questions that concerned us at that time. I agree now with Terry that Edward Rowlston who married Anne Goodricke was not of the Watnall branch, but was son of Edward (I) Rowlston and Mabel Anne at Cridling Stubbs. > There was also discussion about Edward Rowlston of Nether Toynton who received all of the Watnall estates by bequest from Lancelot Rolleston of Watnall in 1685, through whom the Toynton and Watnall branches combined. The identity of that Edward of Toynton was questionable, Burke, following errors in Visitations, defined him as son of Philip Rolleston of Watnall and Frances Pierrepont. I have now proved that to be wrong. I have identified a number of errors in the family's previous pedigrees and have pinned down the identity of Edward of Toynton. I have tentatively integrated Vance Meade's data from the Close Rolls about John & Isabell Roulston at Pontefract who might provide the connection between Swarkeston manor and Tanshelf around 1483. > As I feared at the time, this has radically changed the generally accepted lineage of the Rollestons at Watnall, of whom the post-1687 family have a different ancestry to those at Watnall pre-1685. > I have to confess that much of the interpretation about individuals and family lineages in the Part 2 post of March 2014 is superseded and I strongly recommend that conclusions derived from that post should be scrapped. > > I have written all of this into a research paper that I would like to present to any on this forum who may be interested to follow through with the story. The paper runs to 59 pages including 6 pedigree charts and cannot be posted here. I have placed it into DropBox and provide the link here for anyone to access it to view or download. The paper is titled: "The Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall, a Re-Evaluation - 2nd Draft". It remains in draft form until I have found supporting data for the Swarkeston-Tanshelf connection and for the proof of identity of Thomas Rowlston who received the conveyance of Nether Toynton from Anne Goodricke in 1606 and thus became ancestral to Rollestons of Toynton and Watnall. The charts define the revised lineage from around 1370 when Rollestons branched off to Swarkeston and from there to Tanshelf, then onward to Nether Toynton and finally Watnall. As this is still a draft, there are likely to be further changes in future as I gather more detail, and some of the charts will be revised, but I believe I am now much closer to a correct definition of these family lines. > > In 7 chapters, the paper discusses: > History of Nether Toynton and how it came to the Rollestons. > Rolleston of Watnall Chaworth, the direct family line. > Rolleston of Swarkeston manor in Derbs. > Rowlston of Tanshelf in Pontefract, Yorks. > The transfer of Nether Toynton manor to Thomas Rowlston. > Rowlston of Toynton, inheritors of Watnall and progenitors of the post-1687 Watnall branch. > Conclusions regarding the re-evaluated Watnall branch. > There is also an Appendix providing a summary description of each of the 11 x Thomas, 10 x Edward and 6 x Lancelot that come into the story. > > Please note that this paper is only about the Rolstons of Tanshelf descended from Lyonell (II), mercer of Pontefract, and is not concerned with the other Rolstons descended from his father Lyonell (I) who were involved with Copleys, Cressys, etc. That substantial other half of the Tanshelf branch will be discussed in a future research paper. > > Here is the link to the pdf file in DropBox: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgs41be16c5wc37/Toynton%20%26%20Watnall%20re-evaluation.pdf?dl=0 > > Happy reading..... > Ken Rolston. Thank you for those references Jordan. I do have a copy of DD/1355/64 of John Ballet the chaplain at Nether Toynton. It contains very useful information. DD/1355/99 I have not seen, I shall view it next time at Notts Archives. DD/1355/100 I think is regarding ironworks at Carburton, held by the Rollestons and before them by the Mosleys. DD/1355/101 and 102 I have not seen, again I shall view it. DD/1355/103 is all about the will of William Rolleston, the last of the family of Rolleston manor in Staffordshire. He was a Major in the King's Regiment of Guards during and after the civil war and for financial reasons was forced to sell the manor property, to Sir Edward Mosley (Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster)who already held a mortgage. William did not want his lands at Acton etc to go to his nieces, daughters of his brother Symon, so he bequeathed 12 pence each to Mary and Elizabeth Rolleston, to prevent them claiming in future that they had been inadvertantly left out of the will. This was a common device for the purpose. Even so, they later brought a court case and eventually won control of the properties. There is quite a lengthy story about all of this, to be written up. I have not seen this particular document but I know most of the detail behind it. I shall be visiting Notts Archives probably later this year and will place your refs on my list of docs to view. Thanks again, Ken.

On Thursday, January 21, 1999 at 8:00:00 AM UTC, Dcrdcr4 wrote: > Does anyone have any information on the White family of Farnham, Surrey and > South Warnborough, Hants. I am interested in this line: > > 1. Robert White, of Farnham, merchant of the Staple of Calais, married Alice > > 2. John White, Gent., of Farnham and South Warnborough, died 1469, married > Eleanor, daughter of Robert Hungerford, Lord Hungerford. She married (2nd) > 1470, Sir William Tyrrell, Knt., of Warley, Essex, and (3rd) by 1475, Sir Henry > Fitz Lewis of Nevendon, Essex and London. > > 3. Robert White, of Farnham and South Warnborough, born c. 1456, died 1518, > married Margaret Gainsford > > 4. Margaret White, married John Kirton, and her sister, Anne White, married > Nicholas Tichborne. In 17th century, White Tichborne married a female Shudd, Elizabeth, I think, but she died soon afterwards, and buried in Thursley or Witley, in Surrey. Her mother was Elizabeth too; then WT then married again.