The York Medieval Probate Index, 1267-1500, on FindMyPast, states that the will of William Kelk, Esquire, Lord of Barnetby, in Barnetby le Wold, Lincolnshire, was dated 29 Sep 1418 and proved 14 Nov 1419 in the York Prerogative & Exchequer Courts (Reg 18 (Bowet), Folio 372v-373r, held at the Borthwick Institute of Historical Research). The Lincolnshire pedigree, cited earlier in this thread, states that William's will was dated on the feast of St. Mathias 1418. The index, on FindMyPast, states that one can order the will using the the following form: http://www.york.ac.uk/borthwick/remote-services/copying/order-form/ According to the Lincolnshire pedigree of the Kelke family, this is the William Kelke whose sister married Roger Barnardiston and whose daughter married Robert Tirwhit.

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 1:40:18 AM UTC-4, John Higgins wrote: ... > I don't disagree that the Tyrwhit and Kelke families had a close relationship - including quite possibly the marriage of a Kelke daughter to Robert Tyrwhit the justice. However, the Tyrwhit and Kelke pedigrees in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees" disagree as to the identification of this daughter. The Tyrwhit pedigree says she was Anne, dau. of SIR Roger Kelke of Kelke, while the Kelke pedigree says she was Isabell, sister of Roger Kelke of Barnetby. > > All the usual accounts of the Tyrwhit family - including HOP, ODNB, and the 1862 book by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt cited earlier in this thread - appear to have relied solely on the Tyrwhit pedigree while overlooking the Kelke pedigree. However I think the Kelke pedigree offers a solution which is chronologically satisfactory without having to search for a Sir Roger Kelke. Perhaps it's time to recognize that the accounts of the Tyrwhit family are simply wrong in this regard. There are a number of documents that provide information about some of the generations in the Kelke family. For example, in the November 1411 settlement following a loveday confrontation between William Lord Roos and Robert Tirwhit, justice of the King's Bench, and his men, it was ordered that "Furthermore, the aforesaid Lord Roos, in the presence of those present, shall publicly forgive the aforesaid Robert and all the others in the abovesaid party who were assembled at the loveday and who came with the same said Robert, for all their crimes and trespasses; except only four persons, that is to say, Richard Haunsard, knight, William Kelk, Roger Berneston, and Roger Kelk, the son of the aforesaid William; which four persons we ordain that the same Robert shall bring at the direction of the aforesaid Lord Roos to his own castle, the castle of Belvoir, into his presence; so that they too can acknowledge their offence and submit themselves to the same Lord Roos, praying him for grace and mercy." http://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/parliament-rolls-medieval/november-1411 Chris Given-Wilson, Paul Brand, Seymour Phillips, Mark Ormrod, Geoffrey Martin, Anne Curry and Rosemary Horrox, eds., _Parliament Rolls of Medieval England_ (Woodbridge, 2005)

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 9:42:38 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote: > On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:58:23 PM UTC+1, taf wrote: > > This is Harleian ms. 1969, which is described here: > > Thanks. > > You don't know if that can be found online do you? I get the impression > it's only via the Reading Rooms in London. I see no indication that it has been published, and it is not online via the British Library site, so no, I don't think so. taf

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:58:23 PM UTC+1, taf wrote: > On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 8:56:05 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote: > > On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 8:17:37 PM UTC+1, taf wrote: > > > Just to be clear, the text you ask about are sources, so GX 385 is > > > presumably p. 385 in Harley 1969 (which Barton abbreviated as GX). > > > > What is Harley 1969? > > This is Harleian ms. 1969, which is described here: > > https://books.google.com/books?id=jWVoAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA35 > > taf Thanks. You don't know if that can be found online do you? I get the impression it's only via the Reading Rooms in London.

Jan mentioned possibly finding more on the Downie, Raa, and Baxter ancestry of Agnes Baxter, wife of Mr. John Heart, minister. Another possibly fruitful avenue of research might be to seek the ancestry of David Heart, the father of Mr. John. I suspect he is the "David Heart" listed in 1597 among the servants of Mr. William Hairt/ Heart of Leviland. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024812277;view=1up;seq=429 Mr. William was also called "of Preston" or "Prestoun": "Maister William Hairt of Prestoun" was one of the Justice-deputes in Scotland, and presided under that designation at [the plotter] Sprot's [1608] trial. He appears to have been knighted very soon after the trial, and the reason can scarcely be doubted. This respectable functionary drew up an official account of the culprit's examinations, confessions, and execution, which was prefaced by a long and abject sermon in favour of the king, by Dr George Abbot, dean of Winchester, soon afterwards made Primate of England. This _ex parte_ account of the matter, so important for his majesty, the courtly dean immediately published ... https://books.google.com/books?id=ckgMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA283&dq=%22william+hairt%22+depute&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy4OCN2rjUAhVESiYKHbmcCp4Q6AEIUjAI#v=onepage&q=%22william%20hairt%22%20depute&f=false David Heart, the servant in 1597, may have been a nephew or other agnate kinsman of Sir William Heart/ Hairt. A few years later, around 1600, David apparently transferred into the service of the Elphinstone family.

After a little more research I discovered that Richard Hunt married Anne Knighton, daughter of Thomas Knighton and granddaughter of Thomas Knighton and Anne Underhill. The pedigree in the Essex visitation did, as I've said previously, make a lot of mistakes. It's quite possible that Alice Hunt, wife of Richard Bull, married into the same family.

My apologies, that should have been Agnes de Kelk not Agnes de Kel. Guy Vincent On 11/06/17 09:37 am, Guy Vincent wrote: > I've never found any of the Kelke family to have been knights. A Roger > Kelke of this period was fined scutage for failure to become one. I > imagine if your land holdings just qualified you for any part of a > knights fee it would be quite a burden financially. The family were > originally of Great Kelk in the East Riding where the earliest holder > I can find was one John de Beverley, steward to Robert de Ros. He had > a son Reynold and a daughter Agnes de Kel, his heir. The family moved > across into Lincolnshire to Barnetby-le-Wold about the time of the > marriage of William de Kelke to the daughter of Ralph Welwick. > > On 11/06/17 08:38 am, John Higgins wrote: >> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: >>> Joe, >>> >>> In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert >>> Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the >>> father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in >>> Barnetby Church are described relating to them. >>> >>> See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. >>> >>> https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false >>> >>> >>> >>> Jordan. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: >>>> According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a >>>> number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even >>>> more so for William It will be.difficult with the current >>>> Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything >>>> more than really rough guesses. >>>> >>>> Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed >>>> need Roger? >> Actually this source states that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice >> Kelke who married Robert Tyrwhit, but it doesn't provide proof of >> that statement. Footnote 4 mentioned above states that "Monuments of >> the Kelkes, of as late a date as 1655, remain in Barnetby Church", >> but there's no mention of a Roger specifically. >> >> Aside from this source and the reference to "Sir Roger Kelke of >> Kelke, Yorkshire" in the Tyrwhit pedigree in "Lincolnshire >> Pedigrees", is there any evidence that this Roger (if he existed) was >> actually a knight? And is there a place in Yorkshire called Kelke? >> I can't readily find one. >> >> Perhaps the Tyrwhit pedigree, which seems to be the source for >> subsequent mentions of this relationship, should have said that >> Alice was "sister of Roger" rather than "daughter of Sir Roger". >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've never found any of the Kelke family to have been knights. A Roger Kelke of this period was fined scutage for failure to become one. I imagine if your land holdings just qualified you for any part of a knights fee it would be quite a burden financially. The family were originally of Great Kelk in the East Riding where the earliest holder I can find was one John de Beverley, steward to Robert de Ros. He had a son Reynold and a daughter Agnes de Kel, his heir. The family moved across into Lincolnshire to Barnetby-le-Wold about the time of the marriage of William de Kelke to the daughter of Ralph Welwick. On 11/06/17 08:38 am, John Higgins wrote: > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: >> Joe, >> >> In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. >> >> See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. >> >> https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false >> >> >> Jordan. >> >> >> >> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: >>> According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. >>> >>> Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger? > Actually this source states that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Tyrwhit, but it doesn't provide proof of that statement. Footnote 4 mentioned above states that "Monuments of the Kelkes, of as late a date as 1655, remain in Barnetby Church", but there's no mention of a Roger specifically. > > Aside from this source and the reference to "Sir Roger Kelke of Kelke, Yorkshire" in the Tyrwhit pedigree in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees", is there any evidence that this Roger (if he existed) was actually a knight? And is there a place in Yorkshire called Kelke? I can't readily find one. > > Perhaps the Tyrwhit pedigree, which seems to be the source for subsequent mentions of this relationship, should have said that Alice was "sister of Roger" rather than "daughter of Sir Roger". > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yesterday I found the ancestry of Alice Hunt, wife of Richard Bull. They are the grandparents of Thomas Lawrence and Joan Antrobus. There's a pedigree in The Visitations Of Essex II from 1541. The pedigree mentions the Bulls, Knightons, Underhills, Caldebecks, Hinkleys, Notbeams and Pecches. Some of the connections it gets right according to David L. Greene's "The Royal Ancestry Of The Ipswich (Massachusetts) And Long Island Lawrence Families". The biggest screw ups occur with the most recent. It has Alice, daughter of a Bull of Hertford, married to Thomas Knighton of Little Bradley. According to Greene and what I've been able to confirm independently Richard Bull married Alice Hunt. Richard's parents were Charles Bull and Joan Knighton, daughter of Thomas Knighton and Anne Underhill. The pedigree gets the Knighton/Underhill connection right. The pedigree adds a Thomas Underhill and an unknown wife before Thomasine Caldebeck and Thomas Underhill. There's going back, but this gives the flavor. The pedigree has a Richard Hunt married to Anne Knighton, daughter of Thomas. Thomas did have a daughter Anne, but she married William Mason according to Greene. So there is a heck of a lot of work to do to try to straighten out this genealogy.

On Sunday, 11 June 2017 05:16:29 UTC+1, The Hoorn wrote: > There seems to be references to L.R. in the text. It might be found in Records of the Office of the Auditors of Land Revenue. If you have access to a University library, I would suggest you might want to consult the book. > > https://books.google.com/books/about/Records_of_the_Office_of_the_Auditors_of.html?id=Os0qAQAAMAAJ > > Hope that will point you in the right direction. Or maybe the wrong direction. If you look at the entries which are marked L.R. they all concern the Duchy of Lancaster. The Court of Augmentations, the predecessor of the Office of the Auditors of Land Revenue did not come into existence until the reign of Henry VIII. Regards, John

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 5:07:13 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > John, > > Thanks for your insight. I cannot find reference to Roger Kelke as a knight. the Tirwhit and Kelke families seem to have a close relationship given the number of times they appear together in records both in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. > > There seems to be manors of Great Kelk and Little Kelk found in Yorkshire. If search Kelke in the Discovery archives a number of results referring to it will show up. > > Jordan. > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:08:57 PM UTC-4, John Higgins wrote: > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > > > Joe, > > > > > > In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. > > > > > > See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. > > > > > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false > > > > > > > > > Jordan. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > > > > According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. > > > > > > > > Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger? > > > > Actually this source states that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Tyrwhit, but it doesn't provide proof of that statement. Footnote 4 mentioned above states that "Monuments of the Kelkes, of as late a date as 1655, remain in Barnetby Church", but there's no mention of a Roger specifically. > > > > Aside from this source and the reference to "Sir Roger Kelke of Kelke, Yorkshire" in the Tyrwhit pedigree in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees", is there any evidence that this Roger (if he existed) was actually a knight? And is there a place in Yorkshire called Kelke? I can't readily find one. > > > > Perhaps the Tyrwhit pedigree, which seems to be the source for subsequent mentions of this relationship, should have said that Alice was "sister of Roger" rather than "daughter of Sir Roger". I don't disagree that the Tyrwhit and Kelke families had a close relationship - including quite possibly the marriage of a Kelke daughter to Robert Tyrwhit the justice. However, the Tyrwhit and Kelke pedigrees in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees" disagree as to the identification of this daughter. The Tyrwhit pedigree says she was Anne, dau. of SIR Roger Kelke of Kelke, while the Kelke pedigree says she was Isabell, sister of Roger Kelke of Barnetby. All the usual accounts of the Tyrwhit family - including HOP, ODNB, and the 1862 book by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt cited earlier in this thread - appear to have relied solely on the Tyrwhit pedigree while overlooking the Kelke pedigree. However I think the Kelke pedigree offers a solution which is chronologically satisfactory without having to search for a Sir Roger Kelke. Perhaps it's time to recognize that the accounts of the Tyrwhit family are simply wrong in this regard.

Anyone interested in the Hauteville family and 11th-century events in southern Italy will be pleased that the excellent new edition of Geoffrey Malaterra's *De rebus gestis Rogerii Calabriae et Siciliae comitis et Roberti Guiscardi ducis fratris eius* (text and notes with French translation, but without the introduction) is available online here: https://www.unicaen.fr/puc/sources/malaterra/accueil. So far only the first half has appeared in print, *Histoire du grand comte Roger et de son frère Robert Guiscard, vol. I, Livres I & II*, edited by Marie-Agnès Lucas-Avenel, Fontes & paginae (Caen, 2016). This takes the narrative to 1091 - books III & IV continue to 1098, and I assume the second volume now in preparation will also be placed online in due course. Images of five manuscripts and the earliest printed edition are also provided. An English translation by Kenneth Baxter Woolf (Ann Arbor, 2005) from the edition by Ernesto Pontieri (Bologna, 1927) is available here: https://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/047211459X-fm.pdf Peter Stewart

There seems to be references to L.R. in the text. It might be found in Records of the Office of the Auditors of Land Revenue. If you have access to a University library, I would suggest you might want to consult the book. https://books.google.com/books/about/Records_of_the_Office_of_the_Auditors_of.html?id=Os0qAQAAMAAJ Hope that will point you in the right direction.

John, Thanks for your insight. I cannot find reference to Roger Kelke as a knight. the Tirwhit and Kelke families seem to have a close relationship given the number of times they appear together in records both in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. There seems to be manors of Great Kelk and Little Kelk found in Yorkshire. If search Kelke in the Discovery archives a number of results referring to it will show up. Jordan. On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:08:57 PM UTC-4, John Higgins wrote: > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > > Joe, > > > > In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. > > > > See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. > > > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false > > > > > > Jordan. > > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > > > According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. > > > > > > Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger? > > Actually this source states that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Tyrwhit, but it doesn't provide proof of that statement. Footnote 4 mentioned above states that "Monuments of the Kelkes, of as late a date as 1655, remain in Barnetby Church", but there's no mention of a Roger specifically. > > Aside from this source and the reference to "Sir Roger Kelke of Kelke, Yorkshire" in the Tyrwhit pedigree in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees", is there any evidence that this Roger (if he existed) was actually a knight? And is there a place in Yorkshire called Kelke? I can't readily find one. > > Perhaps the Tyrwhit pedigree, which seems to be the source for subsequent mentions of this relationship, should have said that Alice was "sister of Roger" rather than "daughter of Sir Roger".

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > Joe, > > In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. > > See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false > > > Jordan. > > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > > According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. > > > > Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger? Actually this source states that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Tyrwhit, but it doesn't provide proof of that statement. Footnote 4 mentioned above states that "Monuments of the Kelkes, of as late a date as 1655, remain in Barnetby Church", but there's no mention of a Roger specifically. Aside from this source and the reference to "Sir Roger Kelke of Kelke, Yorkshire" in the Tyrwhit pedigree in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees", is there any evidence that this Roger (if he existed) was actually a knight? And is there a place in Yorkshire called Kelke? I can't readily find one. Perhaps the Tyrwhit pedigree, which seems to be the source for subsequent mentions of this relationship, should have said that Alice was "sister of Roger" rather than "daughter of Sir Roger".

On 10/06/2017 1:13 PM, Jan Wolfe wrote: > See http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2010-08/1282869484 > > In 2010, John concluded from these Westwood charters that Avicia was the wife of William (I) de Beauchamp. > Emma Mason held that Amicia who was the widow of a William de Beauchamp in 1200 was the same as Avicia who called herself lady of Salwarpe in the Westwood propry charter (most probably correct), and that her deceased husband must have been William II (died 1197) rather than William I (died 1170). I don't know why she didn't discuss this further regarding the possibility that the two William de Beauchamps (I and II, father and son) could have had different widows (Avicia/Amicia and Berta respectively) both living in 1200, that leads towards the conclusion reached by John Ravilious. Peter Stewart

Joe, In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false Jordan. On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. > > Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger?

It has been nearly 15 years since this topic was posted. Any updates on the origins of Richard Waaren?

According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger?

The problem is that the bills have no date, so they have to be dated from internal evidence. The most easily accessed evidence is the Chancellor's name in the address at the head, and the cataloguers seldom ventured further into the text, so most bills are dated by reference to the Chancellor's tenure of his office. Though occasionally some additional title can narrow it down a little - eg 'Cardinal' for Wolsey, or a bishopric if the chancellor was translated from one see to another during his tenure. Matt Tompkins ________________________________ From: GEN-MEDIEVAL <[email protected]> on behalf of Vance Mead <[email protected]> Sent: 10 June 2017 12:48 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Early Chancery Proceeding - Help needed with Date Out of curiosity, what is the reason for the uncertain dating of early Chancery proceeding? Were they taken out of sequence by a 19th century archivist? This is what happened with the 14th century parliamentary petitions. They were taken out of their original order and arranged by county and alphabetically by the name of petitioner. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message