The website, which looks like it it was created circa 1996 based on the eyesore of html that it is, went offline about 2013 it appears. However, the internet saves all... Here is the page as it was in 2013 http://web.archive.org/web/20130108105019/http://users.telenet.be/JoseVerheecke/index.html Hth, Joecook

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 11:55:44 AM UTC-5, wjhonson wrote: > On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 6:42:07 PM UTC-7, Linda Tate Wilson wrote: > > I have traced back in ancestry to John Thwaites, born in 1305 near Yorkshire, England and died in 1360 near Denton, Yorkshire, England. He had a son, Thomas Thwaites, born in 1330 and died in 1399 also in or near Denton, Yorkshire, England. > > > > Has anyone here been on that line of Thwaites? > > I would say your first problem, is that these particular birth and death years cannot be supported. > > You need to come a bit forward in time, and *cement* your facts with reputable sources before you build a house of cards here. Thanks for your input, for what it's worth. Troll much?

Does anyone know where José Verheecke's website, 'Princes of Belgium' has gone? It was a wonderful place, full of all kinds of information. I can't seem to find it on the web anymore. Any help would be appreciated. Bill

On 15/06/2017 2:16 PM, J.L. Fernandez Blanco wrote: >> I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by dredging yup an old >> thread, since the link you have provided is to a page of Christian >> Raffersperger's book that is not viewable to most readers. >> >> Anyone wanting to find out what the author thinks about the mother of >> Vladimir Monomakh can start here: >> >> http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=monomakhina >> >> Peter Stewart > Thanks for the link, Peter. At a quick glance, it looks like is quite well researched. Needless to say, I haven't had any time to go in deep with it...other projects are holding me back but this is one area (among so many others...) I just happen to really love. The usual caution applies - for instance, on the page for Vladimir Monomakh himself (http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=vladimir3) he is shown as marrying his second wife in 1108. She was the mother of Yuri Dolgoruki, who is shown on his own page (http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=iurii) as marrying for the first time in 1107. A pre-natal prodigy... If you follow the link to Vladimir's first wife, Harold Godwinson's daughter Gyda (http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=gyda), you can find where this problem arises - she is mistakenly identified as the wife who, according to the primary chronicle, died on 7 May 1107. However, we know that this was actually the second wife, Yuri's mother - Vladimir's "pouchenie" (instruction), evidently written shortly before he died in 1125 and inserted in the chronicle under 1096, tells us that Yuri's mother died after Easter in 1107, before he took a Polovstian girl as wife for Yuri after the following Christmas (in the chronicle on 12 January 1107 March style, 1108 new style). We know from the necrology of St Pantaleon abbey at Cologne that Gyda died on a 10 March, that was before any possible date for Easter. The year of her death is unknown - it may have been after 1107, if she was repudiated as Vladimir Kuchkin plausibly suggested in 1999. Peter Stewart

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 12:10:21 PM UTC-3, Peter Stewart wrote: > On 15/06/2017 2:16 PM, J.L. Fernandez Blanco wrote: > >> I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by dredging yup an old > >> thread, since the link you have provided is to a page of Christian > >> Raffersperger's book that is not viewable to most readers. > >> > >> Anyone wanting to find out what the author thinks about the mother of > >> Vladimir Monomakh can start here: > >> > >> http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=monomakhina > >> > >> Peter Stewart > > Thanks for the link, Peter. At a quick glance, it looks like is quite well researched. Needless to say, I haven't had any time to go in deep with it...other projects are holding me back but this is one area (among so many others...) I just happen to really love. > > The usual caution applies - for instance, on the page for Vladimir > Monomakh himself > (http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=vladimir3) he is > shown as marrying his second wife in 1108. She was the mother of Yuri > Dolgoruki, who is shown on his own page > (http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=iurii) as marrying > for the first time in 1107. A pre-natal prodigy... > > If you follow the link to Vladimir's first wife, Harold Godwinson's > daughter Gyda > (http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=gyda), you can > find where this problem arises - she is mistakenly identified as the > wife who, according to the primary chronicle, died on 7 May 1107. > However, we know that this was actually the second wife, Yuri's mother - > Vladimir's "pouchenie" (instruction), evidently written shortly before > he died in 1125 and inserted in the chronicle under 1096, tells us that > Yuri's mother died after Easter in 1107, before he took a Polovstian > girl as wife for Yuri after the following Christmas (in the chronicle on > 12 January 1107 March style, 1108 new style). > > We know from the necrology of St Pantaleon abbey at Cologne that Gyda > died on a 10 March, that was before any possible date for Easter. The > year of her death is unknown - it may have been after 1107, if she was > repudiated as Vladimir Kuchkin plausibly suggested in 1999. > > Peter Stewart Thanks for the caveat and information. I only saved the link for perusing later...who knows when! Cheers!

Apparently they were the same person: "William Lord Borthwick, deceased in 1600, owed Mr William Hart, Lord Advocate from 1594 to 1597, 10,000 merks by contract signed in 1581." https://books.google.com/books?id=ItxKAQAAIAAJ&q=%22William+Lord+Borthwick,+deceased+in+1600,+owed+Mr+William+Hart,+Lord+Advocate+from+1594+to+1597,+10,000+merks+by+contract+signed+in+1581.%22&dq=%22William+Lord+Borthwick,+deceased+in+1600,+owed+Mr+William+Hart,+Lord+Advocate+from+1594+to+1597,+10,000+merks+by+contract+signed+in+1581.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjG0-XWtsDUAhWF1CYKHWA4BvoQ6AEIKDAA

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 1:03:04 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > Hart, Sir William, of Livielands, > died before 1619, mar. (1) Margaret Cairncross, widow of John Hamilton of Chapel; (2) Isobel, daughter of John, 6th Lord Borthwick and relict of Thomas Davidson, burgess of Edinburgh. Lord Advocate 1594-7. > > https://books.google.com/books?id=x01mAAAAMAAJ&q=%22Hamilton+of+Chapel%22+%22isobel+daughter%22&dq=%22Hamilton+of+Chapel%22+%22isobel+daughter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi18tP7qMDUAhWD6SYKHRorCQAQ6AEIJjAB > > However, I thought I had seen Margaret Cairncross as a widow in the 1620s in proceedings against Mr. John Hart/ Hairt, called her son. Mr. William Hart, the brother-in-law of Lord Borthwick, was living 1567-81. https://books.google.com/books?id=aA0XAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA115&dq=%22william+hart%22+borthwick&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja1prWtMDUAhWMMSYKHYR_DlsQ6AEIIjAA#v=onepage&q=%22william%20hart%22%20borthwick&f=false Mr. William Hairt, the justice, had a wife called "Margaret Carnecors" in 1598: https://books.google.com/books?id=T9NAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA81&dq=hairt+carnecors&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjPwObJscDUAhVE0iYKHT96D5EQ6AEIOjAD#v=onepage&q=hairt%20carnecors&f=false Therefore, the order of the marriages of William Hart/ Hairt must be backwards (if they are in fact the same person).

On 14/06/2017 8:34 AM, Peter Stewart wrote: > > On 14/06/2017 12:04 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> 2011 m. vasaris 24 d., ketvirtadienis 00:04:06 UTC+2, wjhonson rašė: >>> In a message dated 2/23/2011 1:49:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> >>> >>>> consider, without regard to a word "Princess" or "kinswoman", that >>>> this woman, which is not referred to in any "contemporary" Russian >>>> chronicle >>>> at all, was a daughter of the Emperor. >>>> >>> Just to point this nail a little more. The Primary Chronicle was >>> first put >>> together, in some fashion, about 70 years after this arranged >>> marriage is >>> supposed to have taken place. We do not have that version, we have >>> a few >>> version many *centuries* later, which have been edited. We cannot >>> tell how >>> much or how they've been edited. >>> >>> To my mind, that's not a contemporary document at all. Not even the >>> first >>> version. >> https://books.google.lt/books?id=1BXlXAkBKs0C&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Anastasia+is+believed+to+be+related+to+the+family+of+the+Byzantine+Emperor+Constantine+IX&source=bl&ots=r45YHieivT&sig=kLTuYdng0ezGU2CSsDBATLO1D60&hl=lt&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH0Y73-brUAhXnYpoKHQa1D9oQ6AEITjAH#v=onepage&q=Anastasia%20is%20believed%20to%20be%20related%20to%20the%20family%20of%20the%20Byzantine%20Emperor%20Constantine%20IX&f=false >> >> > > I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by dredging yup an old > thread, since the link you have provided is to a page of Christian > Raffersperger's book that is not viewable to most readers. > > Anyone wanting to find out what the author thinks about the mother of > Vladimir Monomakh can start here: > > http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=monomakhina Anyone wanting to see the entry identifying Vladimir's mother as a Greek imperial daughter (o[t] tsaritse gr'kyne) under AD 1053 (AM 6561) in the Laurentian manuscript of the Russian primary chronicle (St Petersburg, National Library of Russia, F.p.IV.2, fol. 54v) can view it here (line 13 in the left column): http://expositions.nlr.ru/LaurentianCodex/_Data/Images/sm/i_114.jpg The corresponding annal in the standard PSRL edition can be viewed here (column 160, last entry): http://www.lrc-lib.ru/rus_letopisi/Laurence/gif_mm.php?file=159-160.gif Peter Stewart

Hart, Sir William, of Livielands, died before 1619, mar. (1) Margaret Cairncross, widow of John Hamilton of Chapel; (2) Isobel, daughter of John, 6th Lord Borthwick and relict of Thomas Davidson, burgess of Edinburgh. Lord Advocate 1594-7. https://books.google.com/books?id=x01mAAAAMAAJ&q=%22Hamilton+of+Chapel%22+%22isobel+daughter%22&dq=%22Hamilton+of+Chapel%22+%22isobel+daughter%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi18tP7qMDUAhWD6SYKHRorCQAQ6AEIJjAB However, I thought I had seen Margaret Cairncross as a widow in the 1620s in proceedings against Mr. John Hart/ Hairt, called her son.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 6:42:07 PM UTC-7, Linda Tate Wilson wrote: > I have traced back in ancestry to John Thwaites, born in 1305 near Yorkshire, England and died in 1360 near Denton, Yorkshire, England. He had a son, Thomas Thwaites, born in 1330 and died in 1399 also in or near Denton, Yorkshire, England. > > Has anyone here been on that line of Thwaites? I would say your first problem, is that these particular birth and death years cannot be supported. You need to come a bit forward in time, and *cement* your facts with reputable sources before you build a house of cards here.

> I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by dredging yup an old > thread, since the link you have provided is to a page of Christian > Raffersperger's book that is not viewable to most readers. > > Anyone wanting to find out what the author thinks about the mother of > Vladimir Monomakh can start here: > > http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=monomakhina > > Peter Stewart Thanks for the link, Peter. At a quick glance, it looks like is quite well researched. Needless to say, I haven't had any time to go in deep with it...other projects are holding me back but this is one area (among so many others...) I just happen to really love.

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:18:49 PM UTC-4, The Hoorn wrote: > It has been nearly 15 years since this topic was posted. Any updates on the origins of Richard Waaren? I think the only information found in the last 15 years would be the baptism of Elizabeth Walker, wife of Richard Warren who was baptized September 1583 in Baldock, Herts. Augustine's burial is noted as "Austen Wallkar of Amwell street an owld man." but I think this as identified by Davies at the same time as his original article. Joe C

On Thursday, 27 April 2017 22:30:54 UTC+1, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > Good day, > > I have looking for information regarding the parents of Winifred Spacote who married Lionel Goodrick, and while searching for information on her parents Henry Sapcote, Mayor of Lincoln and Jane Smyth, I came across a couple of things that I think have identified the family his 2nd wife Alice came from. > > In Lincolnshire Notes and Queries, Volume 2 the section on Henry Sapcote makes mention of George Chippingdale who is referred to as a brother-in-law of Henry Sapcote, but the individual making the query was unsure of the connection creating the relationship between the two. It is linked below. > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=fBktAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=VARIOUS+WILLS+lincolnshire+%22henry+sapcote%22&source=bl&ots=Kb3vRelxqw&sig=nmN0v3A_zt9Qk-XJ4fWDZDShpMs&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=VARIOUS%20WILLS%20lincolnshire%20%22henry%20sapcote%22&f=false > > I stumbled across a catalogue entry at Nottingham Archives which is for a marriage settlement for William Goodrick and Alice Sapcote widow of Henry Sapcote, Mayor of Lincoln. I found this interesting, because the trustees for the settlement were Lyon Goodrick, Edward Spacote, George Chippingdale and Roger Oliver, and that it identified Alice Sapcote as the widow of Henry Sapcote. It is linked and outlined below. > > http://nawcat.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqServer=AP266-0029&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=(RefNo==%22DD%201355%2FA%2FD%2FC%2F65%22) > > Level Item > Repository GB 0157 Nottinghamshire Archives > ReferenceNo DD/1355/65 > FullCatalogue View collection catalogue > AccessionNo 3605 > Title Marriage settlement > Date 20 Dec 1554 > Extent 1 doc > ContentDescription > (1) William Gudricke of Nethertoynton [Low Toynton, Lincolnshire] gentleman > (2) Alice Sapcote, widow formerly wife of late Henry Sapcote, gentleman > (3) Leonard Gudricke, esq; Edward Sapcote, gentleman; George Chippingdale; and Roger Oliver, trustees > > Reciting intended marriage of (1) and (2) now (1) to (3) for marriage settlement and specified uses of (1) and (2) of all messuages, tofts, cottages, crofts, dovecotes, lands, meadows etc, in Low Toynton, Grainsby, High Toynton and Tetford [Lincolnshire]. Warranty clause. > > Dated 20 Dec 1 and 2 Philip and Mary, 1554. > > Parchment; signature and seal of (1). > > Badly stained. > AccessStatus Open > Language Latin > > Digging a little deeper into the connection between the Sapcotes and the Chippingdales I found a pedigree that identifies Alice (Ada in the pedigree) as a sister of George Chippingdale and wife of Henry Sapcott of Elton, co. Huntingdon. It is linked below. > > https://archive.org/stream/pedigreeregister01sociuoft#page/98/mode/2up/search/george+chippingdale > > If anyone could shed any further light on this matter, I would be interested. > > Thanks, > Jordan Vandenberg. In George Chippingdale's will I gave a name as "Chrinn[?] Chippingdale". I have had a closer look at the name and am sure now that it reads "Chrian" with an abbreviation stroke above it. I now think that it is an abbreviation for "Christian". Ken.

On 14/06/2017 12:04 AM, [email protected] wrote: > 2011 m. vasaris 24 d., ketvirtadienis 00:04:06 UTC+2, wjhonson rašė: >> In a message dated 2/23/2011 1:49:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> >>> consider, without regard to a word "Princess" or "kinswoman", that >>> this woman, which is not referred to in any "contemporary" Russian >>> chronicle >>> at all, was a daughter of the Emperor. >>> >> Just to point this nail a little more. The Primary Chronicle was first put >> together, in some fashion, about 70 years after this arranged marriage is >> supposed to have taken place. We do not have that version, we have a few >> version many *centuries* later, which have been edited. We cannot tell how >> much or how they've been edited. >> >> To my mind, that's not a contemporary document at all. Not even the first >> version. > https://books.google.lt/books?id=1BXlXAkBKs0C&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Anastasia+is+believed+to+be+related+to+the+family+of+the+Byzantine+Emperor+Constantine+IX&source=bl&ots=r45YHieivT&sig=kLTuYdng0ezGU2CSsDBATLO1D60&hl=lt&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH0Y73-brUAhXnYpoKHQa1D9oQ6AEITjAH#v=onepage&q=Anastasia%20is%20believed%20to%20be%20related%20to%20the%20family%20of%20the%20Byzantine%20Emperor%20Constantine%20IX&f=false > > I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by dredging yup an old thread, since the link you have provided is to a page of Christian Raffersperger's book that is not viewable to most readers. Anyone wanting to find out what the author thinks about the mother of Vladimir Monomakh can start here: http://genealogy.obdurodon.org/findPerson.php?person=monomakhina Peter Stewart

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 12:31:29 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > Jan mentioned possibly finding more on the Downie, Raa, and Baxter ancestry of Agnes Baxter, wife of Mr. John Heart, minister. > > Another possibly fruitful avenue of research might be to seek the ancestry of David Heart, the father of Mr. John. > > I suspect he is the "David Heart" listed in 1597 among the servants of Mr. William Hairt/ Heart of Leviland. > > https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024812277;view=1up;seq=429 > > Mr. William was also called "of Preston" or "Prestoun": > > "Maister William Hairt of Prestoun" was one of the Justice-deputes in Scotland, and presided under that designation at [the plotter] Sprot's [1608] trial. He appears to have been knighted very soon after the trial, and the reason can scarcely be doubted. This respectable functionary drew up an official account of the culprit's examinations, confessions, and execution, which was prefaced by a long and abject sermon in favour of the king, by Dr George Abbot, dean of Winchester, soon afterwards made Primate of England. This _ex parte_ account of the matter, so important for his majesty, the courtly dean immediately published ... > > https://books.google.com/books?id=ckgMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA283&dq=%22william+hairt%22+depute&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy4OCN2rjUAhVESiYKHbmcCp4Q6AEIUjAI#v=onepage&q=%22william%20hairt%22%20depute&f=false > > David Heart, the servant in 1597, may have been a nephew or other agnate kinsman of Sir William Heart/ Hairt. A few years later, around 1600, David apparently transferred into the service of the Elphinstone family. By 1612, David Hart had apparently moved on to the service of the Elphinstones' kinsman, Patrick Stewart, Earl of Orkney: "Complaint by Sir Thomas Hammiltoun of Byris for his Majesty's interest, as follows:---Albeit the King discharged Patrik, Earl of Orknay, his deputes and clerks, of all using of the office of sheriffship and justiciary within the bounds of Orknay and Zetland, as the proclamation published at the market cross of Kirkwall shows, yet Thomas Levingstoun of Pantone, sometime depute to the said Earl, and David Hairt, his clerk, 'being loath to foirgo the commoditie and gayne quhilk undir the pretext and cullour of justice, and by manifest oppressioun of the distressit people within the saidis boundis, thay did yeirlie acquire be the saidis officeis,' still 'usurp upoun thame the administratioun of the saidis officeis within the boundis foirsaidis ...'" https://books.google.com/books?id=Bqv6VEeeEnkC&pg=PA365&dq=%22thomas+Levingstoun+of+Pantone%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiU18b5mbvUAhVDOCYKHUtdAy8Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=%22thomas%20Levingstoun%20of%20Pantone%22&f=false So apparently David Heart was the clerk either of Patrick's deputy Livingston, or of Patrick Stewart himself.

2011 m. vasaris 24 d., ketvirtadienis 00:04:06 UTC+2, wjhonson rašė: > In a message dated 2/23/2011 1:49:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > > consider, without regard to a word "Princess" or "kinswoman", that > > this woman, which is not referred to in any "contemporary" Russian > > chronicle > > at all, was a daughter of the Emperor. > > > > Just to point this nail a little more. The Primary Chronicle was first put > together, in some fashion, about 70 years after this arranged marriage is > supposed to have taken place. We do not have that version, we have a few > version many *centuries* later, which have been edited. We cannot tell how > much or how they've been edited. > > To my mind, that's not a contemporary document at all. Not even the first > version. https://books.google.lt/books?id=1BXlXAkBKs0C&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Anastasia+is+believed+to+be+related+to+the+family+of+the+Byzantine+Emperor+Constantine+IX&source=bl&ots=r45YHieivT&sig=kLTuYdng0ezGU2CSsDBATLO1D60&hl=lt&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH0Y73-brUAhXnYpoKHQa1D9oQ6AEITjAH#v=onepage&q=Anastasia%20is%20believed%20to%20be%20related%20to%20the%20family%20of%20the%20Byzantine%20Emperor%20Constantine%20IX&f=false

Dear all, I mentioned recently that I had purchased a copy of the Abstracts of Feet of Fines Relating to Gloucestershire: 1199-1299. I am presently going through it to see if I can discover any unknown genealogical information. Here's one little gem, although it does not affect anyone's ancestry. William de Hastings of Eaton Hastings, Berkshire (died 1278) had a first wife, Hawise, daughter of Robert de Grey of Rotherfield and niece of Walter de Grey, Archbishop of York. Hawise had died without heirs of her body before the date of this fine. Her heir was her brother Walter de Grey. 17 April 1239, St. Bride's, London. Three weeks from Easter. Walter [de Grey] archbishop of York, querent; William de Hastings, impedient. One ploughland and one third of a mill in Southrop, to wit, all the land held by the archbishop in the township, in demesnes, rents, homages, services, villeinages, and all else. Warranty of charter. Right of the archbishop by William's gift. For this, the archbishop granted, at William's request, all the land and the third of the mill to Walter de Grey, brother and heir of Hawise late William's wife. To hold to Walter de Grey, of the archbishop and his heirs, doing foreign service for all service and exaction. Warranty. This agreement was made saving to William after the death of his mother Matilda de Hastings all the land which she held in dower in the same township Feet of Fines: CP 25/173/12, number 224. William de Hastings later married a lady named Isabel, by whom he had an only daughter, Joan (born about 1255) who married Benedict de Blakenham. In 1273, William de Hastings granted all of his properties to his daughter Joan and her husband. 6 October 1273, One week from Michaelmas, 1 Edward I, Benedict de Blakeham and Joan his wife querents; William de Hastings deforciant. The manors of Farmington and Southrop, Gloucestershire. (2) The same Benedict and Joan querents; the said William deforciant; the manor of Westwell, Oxfordshire. (3) The same Benedict and Joan querents; the said William deforciant; Five acres of meadow in Eaton Hastings, Berkshire. Covenant. Right of Bnedict and Joan by William's gift. For this, grant back to William of the manors of Farmington and Southrop. To hold during his life, of Benedict and Joan and their heirs in tail, paying a pair of white gloves or 1d. a year at Waster. Warranty. Reversion to Benedict and Joan and their said heirs. Contingent remainder of all the said manors and meadow to William's heirs. Feet of Fines: CP 25/1/284/20, number 7. More to come, I hope. Regards, John

On Monday, June 12, 2017 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, Ken Rolston wrote: > On Thursday, 27 April 2017 22:30:54 UTC+1, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > > Good day, > > > > I have looking for information regarding the parents of Winifred Spacote who married Lionel Goodrick, and while searching for information on her parents Henry Sapcote, Mayor of Lincoln and Jane Smyth, I came across a couple of things that I think have identified the family his 2nd wife Alice came from. > > > > In Lincolnshire Notes and Queries, Volume 2 the section on Henry Sapcote makes mention of George Chippingdale who is referred to as a brother-in-law of Henry Sapcote, but the individual making the query was unsure of the connection creating the relationship between the two. It is linked below. > > > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=fBktAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=VARIOUS+WILLS+lincolnshire+%22henry+sapcote%22&source=bl&ots=Kb3vRelxqw&sig=nmN0v3A_zt9Qk-XJ4fWDZDShpMs&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=VARIOUS%20WILLS%20lincolnshire%20%22henry%20sapcote%22&f=false > > > > I stumbled across a catalogue entry at Nottingham Archives which is for a marriage settlement for William Goodrick and Alice Sapcote widow of Henry Sapcote, Mayor of Lincoln. I found this interesting, because the trustees for the settlement were Lyon Goodrick, Edward Spacote, George Chippingdale and Roger Oliver, and that it identified Alice Sapcote as the widow of Henry Sapcote. It is linked and outlined below. > > > > http://nawcat.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqServer=AP266-0029&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=(RefNo==%22DD%201355%2FA%2FD%2FC%2F65%22) > > > > Level Item > > Repository GB 0157 Nottinghamshire Archives > > ReferenceNo DD/1355/65 > > FullCatalogue View collection catalogue > > AccessionNo 3605 > > Title Marriage settlement > > Date 20 Dec 1554 > > Extent 1 doc > > ContentDescription > > (1) William Gudricke of Nethertoynton [Low Toynton, Lincolnshire] gentleman > > (2) Alice Sapcote, widow formerly wife of late Henry Sapcote, gentleman > > (3) Leonard Gudricke, esq; Edward Sapcote, gentleman; George Chippingdale; and Roger Oliver, trustees > > > > Reciting intended marriage of (1) and (2) now (1) to (3) for marriage settlement and specified uses of (1) and (2) of all messuages, tofts, cottages, crofts, dovecotes, lands, meadows etc, in Low Toynton, Grainsby, High Toynton and Tetford [Lincolnshire]. Warranty clause. > > > > Dated 20 Dec 1 and 2 Philip and Mary, 1554. > > > > Parchment; signature and seal of (1). > > > > Badly stained. > > AccessStatus Open > > Language Latin > > > > Digging a little deeper into the connection between the Sapcotes and the Chippingdales I found a pedigree that identifies Alice (Ada in the pedigree) as a sister of George Chippingdale and wife of Henry Sapcott of Elton, co. Huntingdon. It is linked below. > > > > https://archive.org/stream/pedigreeregister01sociuoft#page/98/mode/2up/search/george+chippingdale > > > > If anyone could shed any further light on this matter, I would be interested. > > > > Thanks, > > Jordan Vandenberg. > > Here we are at last.... > I have transcribed the Will of Henry Sapcote of Lincoln, dated 21 January 1553. > He has some interesting information in it, he held several parcels of lands and various houses, and leases of a number of parsonages that he bequeathed to family. > He leaves items to Amy Hollingworth his daughter, to George, Thomas, Henry, Jerome, John and Nicholas his sons, to Jane Dowman his daughter, to Dorothy his daughter, to brother in law George Chippingdale and to godson John Chippingdale, to Amy the daughter of son Edward, to his brother William, parson of Waddington, to Wenefryd Goddricke his daughter and Mary his daughter, to Ann Sapcote daughter in law, and much goods and possessions to Alice his 2nd wife. > > I have transcribed the Will of Edward Sapcote of Lincoln, esquire, dated 10 July 1578, eldest son and heir of Henry. > He left bequests to Henry his eldest son & heir, to Elizabeth Burnabie his daughter, to Thomas Burnabie son in law, to Richard Burnabie son of Thomas, niece Grace Dowman, Amy Wilson his kinswoman, George Sapcote, Alice Sapcote daughter of his brother Nicholas, William Kelke son in law. There is nothing left to his wife who must be deceased. > > This will of Edward has been transcribed into modern English by Nina Green and published at www.oxford-shakespeare.com/probate/PROB_11_60_550.pdf from the National Archives version of the will, ref: PROB 11/60/550 and it was referenced in sgm on 3/2/2017. Nina Green claims copyright on that modern spelled version. > Interestingly, there is a discrepancy between the probate version and the Lincs Archives version. She quotes “to every of my women servants to whom there is none especial given, 3s 4d”. This line is correct by the Lincs version. She then quotes “ to every of my men servants to whom there is none especial legacy given, five shillings over and above their wages”. This bequest to the men servants is missing from the Lincs version. Of course it is a minor issue but it begs the question of potential errors in the primary records that we generally consider as being reliable. > > I have transcribed the Will of George Chippingdale of Lincoln, gent, dated 13 June 1579. He leaves much to Mary his wife and to Edward his son, bequests to Ellin Richforthe and Mary Smithe his wive’s daughters, to Chrinn[?] Chippingdale and Mary her sister, daughters of his son John, to Ormond Hill son in law and Ellen Rustforthe daughter in law, to Richard Smith son in law, to Tobias Chippingdale son of Doctor Chippingdale his son and to Katherine the Doctor’s daughter, to Edmond Chippingdale his son (underage). > Of especial interest to me is his bequest “to Alice Mallet my sister in law and Roger Oliver her brother”. This is Alice, 2nd wife of Henry Sapcote and we thought she was a Chippingdale daughter. This makes it clear that she was born Alice Oliver and that she married 1st an unidentified Chippingdale who was brother of George. I had previously wondered whether there might be an early marriage for her because I estimated that she was in her 30’s when married to Henry. So now we know that she was Alice Oliver/Chippingdale/Sapcote/Goodricke/Mallet. We know only of one confirmed daughter, Ann Goodricke who married 1st Edward Rowlston and 2nd Paul Hamerton, but it is possible that some of Henry’s late issue could have been from her. > > There is a lot of text to these 3 wills, so I have uploaded them into Dropbox. They may be viewed and downloaded at this link: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xlxuss0j427ml9u/AADZApAPQ3ZmmLFYExXjBFoja?dl=0 > > Cheers > Ken. Ken, Thank you so much for taking the time to transcribe these wills and post them. There is indeed a lot of interesting and important information in them. I was surprised at the revelation that Alice was the sister of Roger Oliver and had an additional husband prior to Henry Sapcote. Thanks again Ken. Jordan.

I'd like feedback on an idea I have, after sifting through the available evidence, as to the possible ancestry of Alice Hunt, wife of Richard Bull. What if she were the sister of Richard Hunt, husband of Anne Knighton? Certainly possible given that Richard Bull and his sister, Alice, married Joan Knighton and her brother, Thomas. I don't think the visitations saying that Alice Hunt was from Stanford to be set in stone. As we know the visitations are full of errors. I also know the closer to the time they were compiled the more accurate they tend to be. Still I have found the odd error in the more recent generations in other pedigrees.

On Thursday, 27 April 2017 22:30:54 UTC+1, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > Good day, > > I have looking for information regarding the parents of Winifred Spacote who married Lionel Goodrick, and while searching for information on her parents Henry Sapcote, Mayor of Lincoln and Jane Smyth, I came across a couple of things that I think have identified the family his 2nd wife Alice came from. > > In Lincolnshire Notes and Queries, Volume 2 the section on Henry Sapcote makes mention of George Chippingdale who is referred to as a brother-in-law of Henry Sapcote, but the individual making the query was unsure of the connection creating the relationship between the two. It is linked below. > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=fBktAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=VARIOUS+WILLS+lincolnshire+%22henry+sapcote%22&source=bl&ots=Kb3vRelxqw&sig=nmN0v3A_zt9Qk-XJ4fWDZDShpMs&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=VARIOUS%20WILLS%20lincolnshire%20%22henry%20sapcote%22&f=false > > I stumbled across a catalogue entry at Nottingham Archives which is for a marriage settlement for William Goodrick and Alice Sapcote widow of Henry Sapcote, Mayor of Lincoln. I found this interesting, because the trustees for the settlement were Lyon Goodrick, Edward Spacote, George Chippingdale and Roger Oliver, and that it identified Alice Sapcote as the widow of Henry Sapcote. It is linked and outlined below. > > http://nawcat.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqServer=AP266-0029&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=(RefNo==%22DD%201355%2FA%2FD%2FC%2F65%22) > > Level Item > Repository GB 0157 Nottinghamshire Archives > ReferenceNo DD/1355/65 > FullCatalogue View collection catalogue > AccessionNo 3605 > Title Marriage settlement > Date 20 Dec 1554 > Extent 1 doc > ContentDescription > (1) William Gudricke of Nethertoynton [Low Toynton, Lincolnshire] gentleman > (2) Alice Sapcote, widow formerly wife of late Henry Sapcote, gentleman > (3) Leonard Gudricke, esq; Edward Sapcote, gentleman; George Chippingdale; and Roger Oliver, trustees > > Reciting intended marriage of (1) and (2) now (1) to (3) for marriage settlement and specified uses of (1) and (2) of all messuages, tofts, cottages, crofts, dovecotes, lands, meadows etc, in Low Toynton, Grainsby, High Toynton and Tetford [Lincolnshire]. Warranty clause. > > Dated 20 Dec 1 and 2 Philip and Mary, 1554. > > Parchment; signature and seal of (1). > > Badly stained. > AccessStatus Open > Language Latin > > Digging a little deeper into the connection between the Sapcotes and the Chippingdales I found a pedigree that identifies Alice (Ada in the pedigree) as a sister of George Chippingdale and wife of Henry Sapcott of Elton, co. Huntingdon. It is linked below. > > https://archive.org/stream/pedigreeregister01sociuoft#page/98/mode/2up/search/george+chippingdale > > If anyone could shed any further light on this matter, I would be interested. > > Thanks, > Jordan Vandenberg. Here we are at last.... I have transcribed the Will of Henry Sapcote of Lincoln, dated 21 January 1553. He has some interesting information in it, he held several parcels of lands and various houses, and leases of a number of parsonages that he bequeathed to family. He leaves items to Amy Hollingworth his daughter, to George, Thomas, Henry, Jerome, John and Nicholas his sons, to Jane Dowman his daughter, to Dorothy his daughter, to brother in law George Chippingdale and to godson John Chippingdale, to Amy the daughter of son Edward, to his brother William, parson of Waddington, to Wenefryd Goddricke his daughter and Mary his daughter, to Ann Sapcote daughter in law, and much goods and possessions to Alice his 2nd wife. I have transcribed the Will of Edward Sapcote of Lincoln, esquire, dated 10 July 1578, eldest son and heir of Henry. He left bequests to Henry his eldest son & heir, to Elizabeth Burnabie his daughter, to Thomas Burnabie son in law, to Richard Burnabie son of Thomas, niece Grace Dowman, Amy Wilson his kinswoman, George Sapcote, Alice Sapcote daughter of his brother Nicholas, William Kelke son in law. There is nothing left to his wife who must be deceased. This will of Edward has been transcribed into modern English by Nina Green and published at www.oxford-shakespeare.com/probate/PROB_11_60_550.pdf from the National Archives version of the will, ref: PROB 11/60/550 and it was referenced in sgm on 3/2/2017. Nina Green claims copyright on that modern spelled version. Interestingly, there is a discrepancy between the probate version and the Lincs Archives version. She quotes “to every of my women servants to whom there is none especial given, 3s 4d”. This line is correct by the Lincs version. She then quotes “ to every of my men servants to whom there is none especial legacy given, five shillings over and above their wages”. This bequest to the men servants is missing from the Lincs version. Of course it is a minor issue but it begs the question of potential errors in the primary records that we generally consider as being reliable. I have transcribed the Will of George Chippingdale of Lincoln, gent, dated 13 June 1579. He leaves much to Mary his wife and to Edward his son, bequests to Ellin Richforthe and Mary Smithe his wive’s daughters, to Chrinn[?] Chippingdale and Mary her sister, daughters of his son John, to Ormond Hill son in law and Ellen Rustforthe daughter in law, to Richard Smith son in law, to Tobias Chippingdale son of Doctor Chippingdale his son and to Katherine the Doctor’s daughter, to Edmond Chippingdale his son (underage). Of especial interest to me is his bequest “to Alice Mallet my sister in law and Roger Oliver her brother”. This is Alice, 2nd wife of Henry Sapcote and we thought she was a Chippingdale daughter. This makes it clear that she was born Alice Oliver and that she married 1st an unidentified Chippingdale who was brother of George. I had previously wondered whether there might be an early marriage for her because I estimated that she was in her 30’s when married to Henry. So now we know that she was Alice Oliver/Chippingdale/Sapcote/Goodricke/Mallet. We know only of one confirmed daughter, Ann Goodricke who married 1st Edward Rowlston and 2nd Paul Hamerton, but it is possible that some of Henry’s late issue could have been from her. There is a lot of text to these 3 wills, so I have uploaded them into Dropbox. They may be viewed and downloaded at this link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xlxuss0j427ml9u/AADZApAPQ3ZmmLFYExXjBFoja?dl=0 Cheers Ken.