On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 21:56:19 GMT, "verti_go" <[email protected]> wrote: >Salve!! >Gradirei conoscere qualche cosa di più sulle origini del mio Cognome: >VERTAGLIA. Cercando su google ho già trovato discussioni al proposito. La soluzione più probabile è che derivi da un nome di luogo. In provincia di Avellino c'è una località chiamata Piani di Vertaglia, nel comune di Montella ;) Saluti, Fabio

"noahsnana" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Looking for surname Pagliocchini. Settled in St. Marie, Ont Canada Relatives > of Paris Pagliocchini of Isernia possible Perguia. > > Only 12 Pagliocchini listed in Italy phone directory on the Internet at http://www.infobel.com/italy None are in Isernia (?), and none in Perguia (Perugia?) The towns listed are Terni, Bastia, Roma, S. Maria Degli Angeli/Assisi, Sellano, and Luino. Upon checking an atlas or comparing postal codes, it may be possible to find if any of these are near Isernia or Perugia. By the way, there are 4 "Isernia" locations in Italy. Acquaviva D'Isernia, Castelromano/Isernia, Fragnete/Isernia, Isernia, and Macchia D'Isernia. Good luck. Joe in Texas

Looking for surname Pagliocchini. Settled in St. Marie, Ont Canada Relatives of Paris Pagliocchini of Isernia possible Perguia.

Interested in info. on the ancesters of John Anthony Caffarelli. Born about 1880 in the south part of Italy. Came to USA at age of seven with parents locating in New York City. Married Anna Pellettiere from Canada. Relocated to Worcester, MA. Thanks. Austin Dunn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/

Start here for some historical background on nobility history. Adam Eterovich has a number of books to his credit onv arious spects of Croatian history. http://www.hr/darko/etf/nobil.html or this: http://slavic.freeservers.com/biblio/herldry.html be sure you distinguish between historical material and scam artists promising you a coat of arms specifically designed for your family name. I just googled "Dalmatian coat of arms" and got a lot of hits...some historical, some scam sales sites... On 9 Jun 2004 19:31:19 -0700, [email protected] (Dr) wrote: >> >Hi Dario (Ciao) >> >I am wondering if you have someting on Venetian and Dalmatian heraladic rules? >> >Rgds. >> >

Salve!! Gradirei conoscere qualche cosa di più sulle origini del mio Cognome: VERTAGLIA. Sono originario della città di Napoli e suppongo almeno da quattro generazioni in Campania. Ebbi modo d'avere notizie da un Prof. di Etimologia della Sorbona,che mi spiegò che probabilmente il Cognome deriva da un'assonanza con Bertaglia o tale radice Bert- in quanto dovrebbe essere la traduzione della prima sillaba da B in V (prettamente meridionale es.: Barca "Imbarcazione" trad. Varca . Esempi molto più "nobili" ma efficaci sono nel cognome dell'Arch. Vanvitelli,che era Olandese e si chiamava Van Vittell ed alla corte del Re di Napoli divenne Vanvitelli. Inoltre in più riprese ricerche pseudo Araldiche,affermano che il cognome deriverebbe da : Ottone da Opicino detto il Vertemate ; oppure da Alberto de Albertoni,un discendente del quale si chiamava il Vertova. In entrambi i casi cadrebbe la prima ipotesi con la traduzione nel dialetto B in V...Aiutatemi a capirci qualche cosa!!!:-) R.le Vertaglia

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:23:36 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] ("Suzanne Russo Adams") wrote: >Dear Freddie, > >I am usually pretty quiet about these things, but I feel I need to >interject here. It is true that there are several "fake" coats of arms >out there, but there are also very legitimate noble families. As a >professional Italian genealogist, I have several different sets of books >that list scores and scores of titled Italian families. (Including the >Enciclopedia Storico Nobiliare Italiana, Libro D'oro, Dizionario >Blasonico, and Dizionario Araldico.) Thank you for your kindness, but I must add, "Me thinks thou dost protest too loudly", way too loudly. I love books but as an avid reader for nearly 70 years, I have to tell you there are no shortage of books written for nuts by nuts.Really. Most of our ancestors left Italy because of abject poverty. That those folks or any of their descendants, save the most pompus, care anything about coats of arms or family crests is... well everyone just add their own word. Would there be an interest in this type of thing in the more prosperous north of Italy? Sure. Do people who limit their geneological searching to pretty drawings on paper severely limit any results they might get? Without a doubt. >For most Italians in Italy that is all they are concerned with is the >study of heraldry. The moment I walked into the Archivio di Stato di >Florence (State Archive of Florence) and asked about genealogy, the >director of the facility pointed me to their collections on heraldry and >not to their collections of the "commoners." Commoners? Tell that to my father who arrived a child, and died a year ago a very succesful business man. Tell it to my mother who learned to sew out of neccesity and paid back by teaching those less fortunate to sew. >It is not surprising that one of the few genealogy schools in Italy >focuses on heraldry. Please see: http://www.iagi.info Of course not. It's a given that Native Italians could care less about ancestors the way we Italian Americans do. They are also pompus and grandeous to just love coats/crests. >As for the Dujam de Judicibus tree and the website dedicated to it, I am >not certain. But that was not my point. He is not trying to sell >anything, but simply trying to research his tree like everyone else. He really was not my point either. He's just the poor soul who brought up my favorite non subject. >My concluding point is that you are correct that there are scams out >there, but the legitimate heraldic trees that have been proved by >rigorous genealogical study should not be shunted or discounted. Actually we agree for the most part, only I put the number of crooks in the genealogy business (especially the coat of arms/family crest sales people) a lot higher than you do. Talk to people who investigate mail fraud. It is a booming business. What surprised me was that the subject would even come up in a group usually so knowledgeable in genealogy. I'd wager most folks who frequent this group would much rather have a nice family tree with 15 or 16 hundred ancestore going back 10 or 15 generations than some goofy coat of arms. Freddie

On 8 Jun 2004 17:05:17 -0700, [email protected] (Dr) wrote: >Hi Dario (Ciao) >I am wondering if you have someting on Venetian and Dalmatian heraladic rules? >Rgds. You guys are kidding, right? Say your kidding. Seriously, it is a blessing that this newsgroup does not see more of this coat of arms baloney being discussed. I expect it is because most people who participate in this newsgroup are way too serious to play that game. Thank God. Literally millions of dollars have been spent chasing the elusive coat of arms/family crest. Let's backup 30 to 35 years ago when the "genealogy kiosk" could be found in many shopping malls. There you'd find a person who would enter your surname into a computer. More often than not, Viola, up would pop your very own coat of arms. You could get a very fine printed copy of this, for a fee, of course. Also available were T shirts, cofee mugs, a leather bound one of a kind "Family History". All sorts of goodies were available. If the computer found nothing for your name, it was no problem at all to have a coat of arms or a family tree generated for you. While it may be hard to believe that this litrtle money maker is still around, fear not. See: http://genealogy.about.com/library/weekly/aa101501d.htm They are everywhere. Do a google search for <coats of arms scam>. You would think that the level of sophistication of the public today would be such that people in this "branch" of genealogy could not exist...wrong. It may be that some people just do not know better, or perhaps it's as simple as an ego trip. Whatever it is, it ain't genealogy! Freddie Freddie The Crook Finder is a free service of Freddie who's sole mission in life is to help people keep more of their own money in their own pockets.

The ANNUAL SURNAME ISSUE of the Comunes of Italy Magazine is on the way to all subscribers. Let us know if you make any connections to others researching your surnames!! The next issue will feature L'Aquila Province in Abruzzo, followed by Macerata Province in Le Marche in September. Anyone interested in more information about the magazine, which is dedicated to Italian genealogy, is invited to visit our webpage at http://www.ItalianAncestry.com/coi or drop me an e-mail at [email protected] for more information. Grace Lancieri Olivo, [email protected] Editor, Comunes of Italy Magazine, [email protected] Co-Chairperson, OSIA Commission for Social Justice-New Jersey http://www.ItalianAncestry.com/coi http://www.ItalianAncestry.com/tito

Dear Freddie, I am usually pretty quiet about these things, but I feel I need to interject here. It is true that there are several "fake" coats of arms out there, but there are also very legitimate noble families. As a professional Italian genealogist, I have several different sets of books that list scores and scores of titled Italian families. (Including the Enciclopedia Storico Nobiliare Italiana, Libro D'oro, Dizionario Blasonico, and Dizionario Araldico.) For most Italians in Italy that is all they are concerned with is the study of heraldry. The moment I walked into the Archivio di Stato di Florence (State Archive of Florence) and asked about genealogy, the director of the facility pointed me to their collections on heraldry and not to their collections of the "commoners." It is not surprising that one of the few genealogy schools in Italy focuses on heraldry. Please see: http://www.iagi.info As for the Dujam de Judicibus tree and the website dedicated to it, I am not certain. But that was not my point. He is not trying to sell anything, but simply trying to research his tree like everyone else. My concluding point is that you are correct that there are scams out there, but the legitimate heraldic trees that have been proved by rigorous genealogical study should not be shunted or discounted. Sincerely, Suzanne Russo Adams, AG Accredited Genealogist(r) and AG(r) are certification marks of the International Commission for the Accreditation of Professional Genealogists. -----Original Message----- From: Freddie the Crook Finder [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 8:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 1415 Split - Dujam de Judicibus On 8 Jun 2004 17:05:17 -0700, [email protected] (Dr) wrote: >Hi Dario (Ciao) >I am wondering if you have someting on Venetian and Dalmatian heraladic rules? >Rgds. You guys are kidding, right? Say your kidding. Seriously, it is a blessing that this newsgroup does not see more of this coat of arms baloney being discussed. I expect it is because most people who participate in this newsgroup are way too serious to play that game. Thank God. Literally millions of dollars have been spent chasing the elusive coat of arms/family crest. Let's backup 30 to 35 years ago when the "genealogy kiosk" could be found in many shopping malls. There you'd find a person who would enter your surname into a computer. More often than not, Viola, up would pop your very own coat of arms. You could get a very fine printed copy of this, for a fee, of course. Also available were T shirts, cofee mugs, a leather bound one of a kind "Family History". All sorts of goodies were available. If the computer found nothing for your name, it was no problem at all to have a coat of arms or a family tree generated for you. While it may be hard to believe that this litrtle money maker is still around, fear not. See: http://genealogy.about.com/library/weekly/aa101501d.htm They are everywhere. Do a google search for <coats of arms scam>. You would think that the level of sophistication of the public today would be such that people in this "branch" of genealogy could not exist...wrong. It may be that some people just do not know better, or perhaps it's as simple as an ego trip. Whatever it is, it ain't genealogy! Freddie Freddie The Crook Finder is a free service of Freddie who's sole mission in life is to help people keep more of their own money in their own pockets.

Hi Dario (Ciao) I am wondering if you have someting on Venetian and Dalmatian heraladic rules? Rgds. "Dario de Judicibus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>... > I updated the file of Dujam de Judicibus, Archbishop of Split in 1415, with > new images of his mother's tomb where it is visible the Dujam's coat of > arms. Whoever is interested, the file is in > > http://www.dejudicibus.it/genealogia/ > > Family::de Judicibus > Branch::Spalato > Century::XV > File::1415 Dujam de Judicibus > > Dario de Judicibus

Most of the names have a religious connection, i.e. there is a Saint by that name. After all the Maria's and Giuseppe's are legion. But many are associated with other aspects of Catholicism like Pasqulae = Easter, Rosario = rosary, Angelo = angel, etc. "James Carlini" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > I had an uncle named Pasquale but he was called "Paddy." Pasquale translates > to something like Pasca having to do with Easter. > > > "Freddie the Crook Finder" <[email protected]> wrote in > message news:[email protected] > > On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:19:08 GMT, MCD <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >My father, born Pasquale DiVecchia, used the name Patsy > > >when he came over. I don't think the translation works > > >as cleanly as say, Giovanni to John. You may find > > >several variations. > > > > I've known several men who were named Pasquale. All of them became Pat > > or Patsy in their new homes in America. > > > > Freddie. > >

From The Cork Examiner, 2 March 1865 - At a carnival supper given by the Princess Doria at Rome, the centre dish was a boiled sturgeon, seven feet long, flanked by two roasted pheasants, with their plumage on and their tails spread like flabella. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Ireland Newspaper Abstracts Acton, Massachusetts | http://www.IrelandOldNews.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I had an uncle named Pasquale but he was called "Paddy." Pasquale translates to something like Pasca having to do with Easter. "Freddie the Crook Finder" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:19:08 GMT, MCD <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >My father, born Pasquale DiVecchia, used the name Patsy > >when he came over. I don't think the translation works > >as cleanly as say, Giovanni to John. You may find > >several variations. > > I've known several men who were named Pasquale. All of them became Pat > or Patsy in their new homes in America. > > Freddie.

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:19:08 GMT, MCD <[email protected]> wrote: >My father, born Pasquale DiVecchia, used the name Patsy >when he came over. I don't think the translation works >as cleanly as say, Giovanni to John. You may find >several variations. I've known several men who were named Pasquale. All of them became Pat or Patsy in their new homes in America. Freddie.

Dennis Ahern <[email protected]> wrote: > >Does Pasquale translate into English as Peter, or Paul? > My father, born Pasquale DiVecchia, used the name Patsy when he came over. I don't think the translation works as cleanly as say, Giovanni to John. You may find several variations. http://www.silogic.com/genealogy/divecchio.htm Mark

Hi! My father in law left Calabria at the end of WW2 and went to Argentina. Some years later he emigrated from there to San Francisco where he raised his family. I understand immigration from Italy to America was strictly limited in the postwar years. Is this the case? And were these limits less strict from Argentina, does anyone know? My husband's brother, a child at the time, says he remembers immigration being very easy, but he doesn't know the details. Both the parents are now dead, so we can't ask them, but I am researching the Calabrian and Argentinian histories and should appreciate this information to bring it all together. Many thanks Janette

On Jun 4, 2004, at 7:00 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > GEN-ITALIAN-D Digest Volume 04 : Issue 134 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Delivery Status Notification [[email protected] (Mail > Delive] > #2 translation of Pasquale [Dennis Ahern > <[email protected]>] > #3 Re: translation of Pasquale [[email protected] (The > Bibliograp] > #4 Re: translation of Pasquale [<[email protected]>] > #5 Re: translation of Pasquale [Penguini <[email protected]>] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from GEN-ITALIAN-D, send a message to > > [email protected] > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > > > ______________________________ > > > From: [email protected] (Mail Delivery Service) > Date: June 4, 2004 12:54:55 AM EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Delivery Status Notification > > > This multi-part MIME message contains a Delivery Status Notification. > If you can see this text, your mail client may not be able to > understand MIME > formatted messages or DSNs (see RFC 2045 through 2049 for general MIME > information and RFC 1891 through 1894 for DSN specific information). > > --=========4050C8A0017C3D7B/maila.grec.isp.9tel.net > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > - These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail > server: > [email protected]; Failed; 5.2.2 (mailbox full) > > > > --=========4050C8A0017C3D7B/maila.grec.isp.9tel.net > Content-Type: Message/Delivery-Status > > Reporting-MTA: dns; maila.grec.isp.9tel.net > Received-from-MTA: dns; gen-italian.com (81.49.1.65) > Arrival-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 06:55:21 +0200 > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; [email protected] > Action: Failed > Status: 5.2.2 (mailbox full) > > --=========4050C8A0017C3D7B/maila.grec.isp.9tel.net > Content-Type: Text/RFC822-headers > > Return-Path: <[email protected]> > Received: from gen-italian.com (81.49.1.65) by maila.grec.isp.9tel.net > (6.0.040) > id 4050C8A0017C3D7B; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 06:55:21 +0200 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 04:54:47 UTC > Subject: FwD: Oh God it's > Importance: Normal > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=2dbfab1d3e8f4b2cc28afd0" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > --=========4050C8A0017C3D7B/maila.grec.isp.9tel.net-- > > ______________________________ > > > From: Dennis Ahern <[email protected]> > Date: June 4, 2004 10:35:53 AM EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: translation of Pasquale > > > Does Pasquale translate into English as Peter, or Paul? > > I'm researching a Peter Gregor whose name appears to have been Pasquale > Greco before emigrating from Italy to America. > > -dja > > ______________________________ > > > From: [email protected] (The Bibliographer) > Date: June 4, 2004 11:21:53 AM EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: translation of Pasquale > > > In article <[email protected]>, > Dennis Ahern <[email protected]> wrote: >> Does Pasquale translate into English as Peter, or Paul? > > Neither. The English form is Paschal or Pascal. There are several > saints > with this name, but the most important is Pope St. Paschal I, in the > ninth > century. See below: > > Pope PASCHAL I > > Memorial > 11 February; formerly 14 May > > Son of Bonosus. Studied at the Lateran. Benedictine monk. Abbot of > Saint > Stephen's monastery, which was near the Vatican, and which housed > pilgrims > to Rome. Pope in 817. > Defended the Greeks against iconoclastic emperors, and sheltered > refugees > from the iconoclast persecutions. Supported Saint Nicephorous and Saint > Theodore Studites. Enshrined the relics of Saint Caecilia and other > martyrs. > When two papal officials were found blinded and murdered, Paschal was > accused of the crime. He was not involved, but the murderers were > members > of his household, and he refused to surrender them, claiming that the > victims were traitors, and that secular authorities had no jurisdiction > over events that occurred within the Vatican. The dispute resulted in > the > Constitution of Lothair, which set specific limits on the law > enforement > and judicial powers of the pope. > Born at Rome. > Papal Ascension > 25 January 817 > Died > 824 > See: The Book of Saints, by the Monks of Ramsgate > > > -- > Regards, Frank Young > [email protected] 703-527-7684 > Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891 > "Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte" > > ______________________________ > > > From: <[email protected]> > Date: June 4, 2004 12:51:36 PM EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: translation of Pasquale > > > Patrick and Patsy are both american forms of Pasquale. many of my > ancestors and more current family are pasquale and use patrick and > patsy. hope it helps! > > ______________________________ > > > From: Penguini <[email protected]> > Date: June 4, 2004 6:20:27 PM EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: translation of Pasquale > > > Dennis Ahern <[email protected]> ha scritto news:c9q1c9$rqq$1 > @pcls4.std.com: > >> >> Does Pasquale translate into English as Peter, or Paul? >> >> I'm researching a Peter Gregor whose name appears to have been >> Pasquale >> Greco before emigrating from Italy to America. >> >> -dja >> > Paul = Paolo > Peter = Pietro > >

Dennis Ahern <[email protected]> ha scritto news:c9q1c9$rqq$1 @pcls4.std.com: > > Does Pasquale translate into English as Peter, or Paul? > > I'm researching a Peter Gregor whose name appears to have been Pasquale > Greco before emigrating from Italy to America. > > -dja > Paul = Paolo Peter = Pietro

Patrick and Patsy are both american forms of Pasquale. many of my ancestors and more current family are pasquale and use patrick and patsy. hope it helps!