I think some of the confusion may be a change in the way the programs make the reports. I really didn't realize that people are still this mixed up about what I am looking for, even though I posted an example of it. An ancestor report begins with the nearest descendant and gives his ancestry, all known lines thereof, for as many generations as one wants to go back. There is no reason why a narrative report that is organized as an ancestor report, cannot provide the spouses and the children of each ancestor, and most genealogical programs have them do that, atleast sort of. An ahnentafel is supposed to be a simple list of direct ancestors and life events organized by generation, but genealogical programs often use the term interchangeably with the narrative ancestor report. A descendancy report starts with an ancestor and presents information about his descendants. A descendancy report is not able to present comprehensive information about what most of us most want to know about - our ancestors! A descendancy report can present genealogical material on a family group defined by a common ancestor, or present information on a family group defined as cousins linked by a common ancestor, or present comprehensive narrative or family group style information on a single direct line of descent. The difference between a descendancy report is not what information they contain; for instance, whether for each generation of ancestors they tell you who the children were, but the basic organization of the information. So the following example is PAF Companion's idea of an ahnentafel report, really an ancestor report. The same information could have been included in a descendancy report. When I handwrote my own web site, years ago, at http://www.geocities.com/tiggernut24, I pretty much organized my material in ahentafel format but with multiple marriages and children of each listed under each ancestor and primary spouse from my own point of view, in indented format. I even had groups of ancestors ahnetafelled separately in the groupings in which they naturally fell, like my mother's old New England nest of families that carried manic depression, her other line that consisted of people who lived in Salem Massachusetts at the time of the Salem witch trials, and my father's Pennsylvania Dutch and his Irish Quakers, and my brother in law's father's mother's and mother's mother's French Canadian ancestry. I truly cannot conceive of another way to organize the information on one's ancestors. The problem I am running into is that many programs present SOME of the children of each ancestor in ancestor reports, but not all of them! Either include the children of a family, or don't, but don't arbitrarily leave out the stepsiblings. To include family group information in the ancestor report incorporates critically important information and saves printing out a few hundred individual family group sheets to add to your ahentafel, and indexing it yourself if you even bother. In fact the idea of a narrative ancestor report or "book" is a great aid to genealogy when it's properly done. You end up with a single comprehensive report that is logically organized and easy to follow. For example, the following family group information is from the ahentafel report generated by PAF Companion. The direct ancestors are Eli Thompson and Ms. Wilson, and their son Ezra. 20. Eli5 Thompson , born 4 Dec 1770 in Mill Creek, New CAstle, DE; died 19 Sep 1840 in London Britain, Chester, PA, son of 34. Daniel Thompson and 35. Elizabeth Chambers . He married (1) on 11 Jun 1798 in London Grove, Chester, PA 21. Elizabeth Wilson , born 16 Jul 1777 in "of" London Grove; died 11 3rd mo 1803 in New Garden Mtg, Chester, PA, daughter of 36. Ephraim Wilson and 37. Elizabeth Johnson ; (2) on 19 Aug 1806 in New Garden, Chester, PA Sarah Scarlett , died 1 Mar 1859 in London Britain, Chester, PA. ------------------------------------------------ Notes for Eli Thompson settled in White Clay Creek, it may have belonged to New Garden at the time as part of New Garden was absorbed into London Britain. b 2/4/1770 MC settled WC m (1) LG m (2) 1806 NG d 9/19/1840 Inconsistency of dates and a registration omission leave it unknown which of the two wives was Ezra's mother. It strongly appears that Ezra's mother was Elizabeth Wilson, who died giving birth to him or soon after, in early 1804. Eli Thompson b 12/4/1700 Mill Creek m (1) 6/11/1798, Elizabeth Wilson m (2) 8/19/1806 Sarah Scarlett Settled in WC, I don't now when, d 9/19/1840, family records at New Garden mm. Eli seems to have been a very quiet person. I don't know what role he may have played in his meeting. But he signed the wedding certificate only of one of his brothers. This means the only wedding he ever went to of his small, close-knit community was that of one of his brothers. All present signed a Quaker wedding certificate, and that was almost always alot of people; usually from half to most of the members of the meeting. Notes for Elizabeth Wilson Elizabeth Wilson b 7/16/1777 d "11, 3rd mo, 1803" (New Garden meeting records) Translate: January 11, 1803. I think it possible she really died January 11, 1804, but so far cannot confirm. If she died in 1803, Ezra was born to a ghost, or else illegitimately several years before his father remarried. This is exactly how it is recorded in the New Garden meeting records, and because it appears to be mistaken, it is important to preserve it exactly as the Quaker clerk wrote it. The Quaker calendar differed from the English calendar by two months, and I've never seen an explanation of what happened when the Quaker and English calenders were in different years; people must have gotten very confused constantly. Further, people write the previous year all of the time when writing dates in early January. I think she really died on January 11, 1804, the only logical way to account for Ezra's birth in 1804. Eli didn't marry his second wife until August, 1806! Ezra's birth is not recorded in the New Garden records, though a Miller genealogy says Ezra was a son of Eli, and Eli passed some of his land on White Clay Creek to Ezra upon Ezra's marriage, and both naming patterns and patterns of family political participation as well as the fact that Ezra became an Orthodox Quaker make it clear that Ezra was close kin to Eli. I suspect Elizabeth died of giving birth to Ezra. Her death is recorded, but they would have had a funeral, the abnormally quiet, probably depressed father forgot to register the birth of his son! In addition, Ezra's birth is not recorded at ANY Quaker meeting, to anyone- and he was a Quaker. Children of Eli Thompson and Elizabeth Wilson were as follows: i Joel4 Thompson , born 12 Jun 1799 in London Britain, Chester, PA. He married (1) on 11 May 1829 in New London, Chester, PA Rachel Spencer , born 14 Jun 1803 in prob New Garden, New London, Chester, PA; died 24 Feb 1851 in New Garden, Chester, PA; (2) bef 1827 in Chester Co, PA Mary Matlack (Hickman) , died in West Chester, PA. Notes: settled in New Garden Township. ii Daniel4 Thompson , born 13 Mar 1801 in London Britain, Chester, PA; died 25 Jul 1868 in London Britain, Chester, PA. She married bef 1826 in New Garden, Chester, PA Beulah C. or G. Hughes , born 1802 in Chester County, PA; died 1882 in London Britain, Chester, PA. Notes: Daniel and/or Ezra were the elders of the London Britain (Orthodox) Meetting. The London Britain meeting was Orthodox and starteda t about the same time as the Mill Creek Hicksite Meeting, the leader of which was a James Thompson, another member of this clan. But the Hicksite/ Quaker split was about the developing middle class (who were assimilating into the mainstream) vs traditional farmers with a more traditional outlook who in fact opposed the developing Capitalist economy as a threat to their livlihoods. Eli was one of the sons of his father whose sons and grandsons were upwardly mobile, and they went with the minority in rural Chester County orthodox position. The Orthodox Quakers held something fairly closely resembling ordinary Protestant church services, and adopted a belief in the Trinity, the Hicksites maintain to this day their traditional Quaker ways of thinking and mode of worship. 10 iii Ezra Sr.4 Thompson , born abt 1804 in London Britain, Chester, PA; died 1873 in London Britain, Chester, PA. He married prob 1832 in prob London Britain, Chester, PA Mary Webster Miller , born 17 Nov 1808 in New Garden, Chester, PA; died 1887 in London Britain, Chester, PA, daughter of John Miller and Mary Webster . iv Joshua4 Thompson , born 20 May or Jul 1786 in New Garden, Chester, PA. Children of Eli Thompson and Sarah Scarlett were as follows: i Mary4 Thompson , born 15 May 1810 in London Britain, Chester, PA. She married in 1827 in Spencer's Mtg, New London, Chester, PA Jeremiah Starr , born in New Garden, Chester, PA. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul C. Abell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [GEN-COMP-TIPS] include all spouses and stepchildren >I thought I knew what an ancestor report is and what a descendant report >is. > Now I am beginning to get confused. It sounds as though you are wanting a > report that combines the two? Is it my ignorance or am I just not > understanding what you are seeking? > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006

I'm printing ahentafel reports in Roots Magic because I like the color coding. Just one problem. If someone has a christening date but no birth date, it prints nothing. I cannot find in tools, options, nor in the ahtnetafel print screen, any option to tell it to print the christening date if no birth date. Does Roots Magic do this? PAF does that automatically. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX [email protected] -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006