Hi. John! вторник, 29 октября 2013 г., 7:29:46 UTC+4 пользователь John Dobson написал: > My apologies for the error in the last message; the date of the betrothal should have been 15 September 1765, not 1665. > > > > The genealogical chart in comte Fédor Golovkine, La cour et le règne de Paul Ier (Paris, 1903), p. 433, gives the names of the author's parents as Gabriel Golovkine and "Appolonie Hertaing Marquette, 1743-1785." (I hope this reading is correct. The copy of this work in the Internet Archive has the chart photographed in the closed position; however, the chart is reproduced in a review of the book in Archivum Heraldicum 19 (1905): 44-47.) So this disagrees with the 1741 birthdate which I gave. I have this book in Russian, modern 2003 edition with extensive notes. Name of our hero is the same and the dates too. > > > In any case, as Otto Schutte's book shows, at p. 564, n. 1303, at the baptism of the eldest child of Gabriel Golovkine and Apollonia de Hertaing van Marquette at 's-Gravenhage in 1766, the sponsors were "Lodewijk Frederik van Bondely, van de Grote Raad van de stad en republiek van Bern, en zijn huisvrouw Louise Maria barones van Hertaing van Marquette." In a long review of Lettres du Comte de Golowkin in Revue Suisse, 24 (1861): 92-107, at p. 96, it is explicitly stated that the Louise Maria, the last of the family of Hertaing van Marquette, was Apollonia's sister. According to Heinz Graber & Doris Walser-Wilhelm, Bonstettiana, vol. 5, p. 105, Louise-Marie died in 1793 (see http://books.google.ca/books?id=V5tdF0SEHq0C&pg=PA105). Yes, according to Notes for "Correspondance de Isabelle de Charrière", 1753-1766(Amsterdam, 1979, p. 553) she died 31.03.1793 in Bern. > > To my mind, the fact that Apollonia had a sister Louise Maria who was the last of their line suggests two reasons why the parentage which I earlier proposed for Appolonia would appear to be plausible, despite its disagreement with Schutte and even, it would seem, some Russian sources. First, this sister would be accounted for as Louisa Maria, daughter of Louis Daniel van Hartaing de Marquette and Bartha Catharina Bitter, baptized 29 May 1737 in the Zuiderkerk, Amsterdam (Amsterdam DTB 101:333). Yes again. In "Correspondance" editors give the same date of her birth (1737 without exact day and month). >Secondly, the extinction of the family would accord with the fact, documented >by J. C. van der Muelen in "De registers der graven in de Kloosterkerk te 's->Gravenhage," Algemeen Nederlandsch Familieblad, 4 (1887): 3-8, at p. 4, that >Louis Daniël van Hartaing was the "univerzaal eerfgenaam" of his widowed >mother, suggesting that he had no living siblings. At this time, these are the >strongest proofs I can offer. > > > > Best wishes, > > John Blythe Dobson > Best regards, Alexander, Moscow, Russia > > > ________________________________________ > > From: gen-benelux-bounces@rootsweb.com [gen-benelux-bounces@rootsweb.com] on behalf of John Dobson [j.dobson@uwinnipeg.ca] > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:39 PM > > To: gen-benelux@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [GEN-BENELUX] Need information about Dutch Family Hertaing de Marquette > > > > Hi Alexander, > > > > I hope I have not led you astray in proposing a parentage and date of birth for Apollonia Frederica de Hertaing van Marquette which does not agree with that given by Otto Schutte. Unfortunately, I cannot presently resolve the discrepancy. I have just checked the record of the betrothal of Gabriel graaf Golovkin, which is available in the FamilySearch collection Netherlands, Zuid-Holland, Church Records, 1367-1911 > Nederlands Hervormd > 's-Gravenhage > Trouwen 1717-1766, image no. 1043, and it is brief and uninformative, reading as follows: > > > > Den 15 Septb. 1665: Gabriël Ernest Grave van Golowkin en des H. Roomschen Rycks met Apolonia Frederica Baronnesse de Hartaing de Marquette. > > > > If it should turn out that the parents of the wife of Golovkin really were Louis Daniel van Hertaing de Marquette and Bartha Catharina Bitter, then as previously noted, the paternal grandmother was Maria Magdalena van Appelthorn. More about this woman can be found in Algemeen Nederlandsch Familieblad, 4 (1887): 4, which proves that she was the widow of Louis Maximiliaan van Hertaing de Marquette. > > > > Best wishes, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gen-benelux-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-benelux-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Agamov > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 5:17 PM > > To: gen-benelux@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [GEN-BENELUX] Need information about Dutch Family Hertaing de Marquette > > > > August, thank you for the link! > > > > The problem is how to connect Friedrich van Hartaing (or Louis Daniel according to John Dobson info) to other members of this family who are known to us from other sources. > > > > I am sorry that it is often too late react to your messages. I'm not always near a computer, but I am extremely grateful to all who offer their assistance in this matter. > > > > Alexander, > > Moscow, Russia > > > > суббота, 26 октября 2013 г., 11:41:03 UTC+4 пользователь augd...@gmail.com написал: > > > Op vrijdag 25 oktober 2013 23:36:59 UTC+2 schreef Alexander Agamov: > > > > > > > Russianborn Сount Gabriel Golovkin (1731-1800) married 1765 Appolonia de Hertaing de Marquette (1743-1785). O. Shutte in his fundamental book "Vertegenwoordigers Repertoria in Nederland en in het buitenland 1584-1810" (Gravenhage, 1983) says that Appolonia was the daughter of Frederick de Hernaing and his wife unknoun by name of Bitter family. I am looking for information on ancestors of this Appolinia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In his "Memoires", Feodor Golovkin (1766-1823), son of Gabriel, wrote that through his mother's family goes back to the brother of the first master of the hospitaller order du Puy. I am trying to build the line, but I cannot find the genealogy of the de Hertaing de Marquette. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the beginning of the 17th century Daniel de Hertaing, Seigneur de Marquette-en-Ostrevant > > > > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquette-en-Ostrevant) was a colonel in the Walloon regiment in the service of the United Provinces of the Netherlands, see http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_de_Hertaing. His father's name was Guillaume, coat of arms: three golden shells on a blue field. > > > > > > > > > > > > And Richard, we know the Golovkin family because they were witnesses at the baptisms of children of your cousins' ancestor Salomon Richier (http://home.online.nl/audeman/chappuzeau/chappuzeau.htm and http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/kwartierstaat/pafg404.htm#81093). > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-BENELUX-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-BENELUX-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message