Jane, On 2017-04-27 01:48, Jane Lapp wrote: > I am looking for ancestors and information for Joseph Bintz. Joseph > was born 8 March 1873 in Belgium but I don't know where. There's a Joseph Bintz listed on FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJ6L-PJD) who was born in Hondelange or Hondelingen (see below) and is supposed to have arrived at New York, Ellis Island on the 5th of April 1910: Given Name: Joseph Surname: Bintz Last Place of Residence: Hondelingen, Belgium Event Date: 05 Apr 1910 Age: 26y Nationality: Belgium, Flemish Departure Port: Antwerp Arrival Port: New York Gender: Female(??) Marital Status: M Ship Name: Finland There are several other listings of the name Joseph Bintz on FS. > And his > eventual wife, she was from Marie Hornick - Stiren born in Hondelange If you're sure about Hondelange; Hondelange (in Dutch, which appear to be pronounced as Hondel in Luxemburgois(?), Hindlindje in Walloon or Hundelingen in German) is a village in the Belgian province named Luxembourg (bordering, but not to be confused with, the country Luxembourg). On wiewaswie.nl (who-was-who), a website of the Dutch Center for Family History, I found about 70 listings (incl. family advertisements) of individuals with the last name 'Bintz', the first one, of a Johannes Bintz (who at first glance looks to have been in the military), dating from the early 1700's. On the same site there are about 40 listings of the lastname 'Hornick', the earliest dating from the late 1600's and just a couple of the last names 'Stiren' en 'van Stiren'. > Belgium 26 January 1883, She died 16 March 1943 in Menominee, > Michigan. She had a daughter out of wedlock, named Suzzanne. > > Joseph Bintz father was Nicholos Bintz I don't know his date of birth > or death. Nicholos' wife was Annie Theisen. On the same site there are about 350 listings of the last name 'Theisen', the earliest dating from the late 1500's. > I do not have any more > information about her, They had one more son John Bintz, born 1860 in > Luxembourg I am told. He came to the USA and died 1932 in Pond, > Wisconsin, they had many children. John's wife was Berth Lyman born > 06 March 1871 in Germany. She died 07 September 1982 in Coleman, > Wisconsin. Looking at the information you sent there's quite a bit, but most of it appears to be from word of mouth and somewhat uncertain, so it might be a good idea to start looking at the information on FamilySearch, in particular the one listing of the 1910 immigration and work your way back from there. This might also give you more information to continue your search at this end of the big pond, should you decide to pursue that. I hope the above contains some information that helps you a bit further. Enjoy your journey into the past and have a great weekend. Regards, Jk.

Jane, I took another look at the various bits and pieces of information you sent. > On 2017-04-27 01:48, Jane Lapp wrote: >> I am looking for ancestors and information for Joseph Bintz. Joseph >> was born 8 March 1873 in Belgium but I don't know where. From record number 3773 on this "https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XC8Y-YF" document, listing marriages in the State of Michigan for the Quarter ending June, 30th 1910, that I found on FamilySearch it would appear that Joseph Bintz (age 37, which would put his birth around 1873), born in Belgium, residing in Escanaba, MI, USA and Marie Stiren (age 27), born in Belgium, residing in Escanaba, MI, USA were issued a marriage license as well as married on the 8th of April 1910 in Escanaba, MI, USA. Based on the information in the same document it would appear that Joseph Bintz was a son of (the marriage of) Nicholas Bintz and Annie Heisen (I'm not sure about the first two letters of her last name) and that Marie Stiren was a daughter of (the marriage of) Nicholas Stiren and Helene Hornick. Based on the information on this "https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJ6L-PJD" document, listing the passengers of a ship named "Finland" that departed from Antwerp, Belgium on March, 25th or 26th of 1910 to arrive at New York, New York, USA on April, 5th 1910, that I also found on FamilySearch it would appear that Joseph Marie Bintz née Stiren (age 26, housewife), born in Hondelingen, [Luxembourg (province),] Belgium and Suzanna Bintz (age 3), born in Hondelingen, [Luxembourg (province),] Belgium traveled to the USA. In the column marked "Whether to join a relative or friend and if so, what relative or friend, and his name and complete address." it reads "to husband - Jos[eph] Bintz, 512 Hall Str[eet], Escanaba, MI, USA". Which more or less seems to match the interpretation (below) of the information on the passenger manifest at the time when it was indexed and also seems to account for the apparent mismatch between the first name of the passenger and the gender, which I marked with (??) below as well as in my initial reply to your email. Given Name: Joseph Surname: Bintz Last Place of Residence: Hondelingen, Belgium Event Date: 05 Apr 1910 Age: 26y Nationality: Belgium, Flemish Departure Port: Antwerp Arrival Port: New York Gender: Female(??) Marital Status: M Ship Name: Finland I found at least one other error on the indexing information derived from the same passenger manifest, which list the city of Middelburg as being in Belgium rather than in The Netherlands, so the notion that there occasional are some (minor) spelling and other errors on either the documents or in the index information derived from them is IMHO not to far fetched. On another page of the same passenger manifest in the column marked "The name and complete address of nearest relative or friend in country whence alien came." the name of Madeleine Hornick, Hondelingen, [Luxembourg (province),] Belgium is listed. Now this is open for interpretation, but to me the above seems to suggest that either the first name of the mother of Marie Bintz née Stiren was misspelled as Helene on the list of marriages or as Madeleine on the passenger manifest. There are some other minor discrepancies such as the age (26 vs. 27) of Marie Bintz née Stiren on the passenger manifest vs. on the list of marriages, the fact that Marie and the child only had 3 days to travel from New York to Escanaba, MI to get married, as well as the fact that "to husband - Jos[eph] Bintz" suggests that Joseph and Marie where already married prior to her traveling from Antwerp to New York by boat, but other than that there are quite a number of matches between the information on these documents and the information you provided in your email. I hope this helps. Regards, Jk.

Jane, Looking in a bit more detail at the information available to you at FamilySearch. On 2017-04-27 23:47, John W. Kitz wrote: > Jane, > > I took another look at the various bits and pieces of information you > sent. > >> On 2017-04-27 01:48, Jane Lapp wrote: >>> I am looking for ancestors and information for Joseph Bintz. Joseph >>> was born 8 March 1873 in Belgium but I don't know where. > > From record number 3773 on this > "https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XC8Y-YF" document, > listing marriages in the State of Michigan for the Quarter ending > June, 30th 1910, that I found on FamilySearch it would appear that > Joseph Bintz (age 37, which would put his birth around 1873), born in > Belgium, residing in Escanaba, MI, USA and Marie Stiren (age 27), born > in Belgium, residing in Escanaba, MI, USA were issued a marriage > license as well as married on the 8th of April 1910 in Escanaba, MI, > USA. > > Based on the information in the same document it would appear that > Joseph Bintz was a son of (the marriage of) Nicholas Bintz and Annie > Heisen (I'm not sure about the first two letters of her last name) and > that Marie Stiren was a daughter of (the marriage of) Nicholas Stiren > and Helene Hornick. The first page of the decadal table marriages 1851-1861 of the Hondelange Civil Status records(see https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G15Y-9HKB?i=76&cc=2138510) lists a marriage of a Nicolas Bintz and an Anne Theisen, so I certainly wouldn't discount the possibility that the first two letters of the last name of Joseph Bintz's mother, on the records of the US marriage indeed are, or ought to be, 'Th' rather than an 'H'. The second page of the decadal table births 1871-1880 of the Hondelange Civil Status records (see https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-815Y-9W5B?i=111&cc=2138510) lists two births of an individual whose last name is Bintz, being Jean Pierre Bintz, born in 1871 and Jean Joseph Bintz born in 1873. Both their birth certificates should be on one of the pages of this (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RFH-99W4?mode=g&cc=2138510) scan. > Based on the information on this > "https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJ6L-PJD" document, listing > the passengers of a ship named "Finland" that departed from Antwerp, > Belgium on March, 25th or 26th of 1910 to arrive at New York, New > York, USA on April, 5th 1910, that I also found on FamilySearch it > would appear that Joseph Marie Bintz née Stiren (age 26, housewife), > born in Hondelingen, [Luxembourg (province),] Belgium and Suzanna > Bintz (age 3), born in Hondelingen, [Luxembourg (province),] Belgium > traveled to the USA. I haven't looked at the records in too much detail, but, assuming Suzanna Bintz was born in 1907 (1910 minus her age of 3 when she traveled to the US), it looks like the record of that birth should be on one of the first 85 pages of this (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G97F-S76?mode=g&cc=2138510) scan or alternatively, if she was born in 1906, on one of the pages from page 369 onwards of this (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-897F-S94Y?mode=g&i=368&cc=2138510) scan. > In the column marked "Whether to join a relative or friend and if so, > what relative or friend, and his name and complete address." it reads > "to husband - Jos[eph] Bintz, 512 Hall Str[eet], Escanaba, MI, USA". > > Which more or less seems to match the interpretation (below) of the > information on the passenger manifest at the time when it was indexed > and also seems to account for the apparent mismatch between the first > name of the passenger and the gender, which I marked with (??) below > as well as in my initial reply to your email. > > Given Name: Joseph > Surname: Bintz > Last Place of Residence: Hondelingen, Belgium > Event Date: 05 Apr 1910 > Age: 26y > Nationality: Belgium, Flemish > Departure Port: Antwerp > Arrival Port: New York > Gender: Female(??) > Marital Status: M > Ship Name: Finland > > I found at least one other error on the indexing information derived > from the same passenger manifest, which list the city of Middelburg as > being in Belgium rather than in The Netherlands, so the notion that > there occasional are some (minor) spelling and other errors on either > the documents or in the index information derived from them is IMHO > not to far fetched. > > On another page of the same passenger manifest in the column marked > "The name and complete address of nearest relative or friend in > country whence alien came." the name of Madeleine Hornick, > Hondelingen, [Luxembourg (province),] Belgium is listed. > > Now this is open for interpretation, but to me the above seems to > suggest that either the first name of the mother of Marie Bintz née > Stiren was misspelled as Helene on the list of marriages or as > Madeleine on the passenger manifest. > > There are some other minor discrepancies such as the age (26 vs. 27) > of Marie Bintz née Stiren on the passenger manifest vs. on the list of > marriages, the fact that Marie and the child only had 3 days to travel > from New York to Escanaba, MI to get married, as well as the fact that > "to husband - Jos[eph] Bintz" suggests that Joseph and Marie where > already married prior to her traveling from Antwerp to New York by > boat, but other than that there are quite a number of matches between > the information on these documents and the information you provided in > your email. > > I hope this helps. > Regards, Jk.

Jane, > The second page of the decadal table births 1871-1880 of the > Hondelange Civil Status records (see > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-815Y-9W5B?i=111&cc=2138510) > lists two births of an individual whose last name is Bintz, being Jean > Pierre Bintz, born in 1871 and Jean Joseph Bintz born in 1873. > > Both their birth certificates should be on one of the pages of this > (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RFH-99W4?mode=g&cc=2138510) > scan. Jean Pierre Bintz' birth appears to have been registered on the 5th of March 1871, while his actual birth looks to have taken place the day before, i.e. on the 4th of March 1871. See certificate number 10 on the left page of "https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRFH-9S2H?i=6&cc=2138510", as well as in the annual table of births 1871 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRFH-9S2W?i=14&cc=2138510), which for some reason is behind the certificates rather than in front of it. Jean Joseph Bintz' birth appears to have been registered on the 8th of March 1873, while his actual birth looks to have taken place 2 days before that, i.e. on the 6th of March 1873. See certificate number 12 on the right page of "https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RFH-11P?mode=g&i=264&cc=2138510", as well as in the annual table of births 1873 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RFH-121?i=275&cc=2138510). The parents of both newborn boys are named as Nicolas Bintz (farmer) and Anne Theisen (so it would appear you're right with regards to the 'Th' instead of the 'H'). It might be a good idea to seek other opinions with regards to the dates, because particularly the old hand writings are not my strong suite. I'll leave finding the certificate, as well as any addenda to it that there may have been, of the Belgian marriage of Joseph Bintz and Marie Stiren, should there have been one, the birth certificate of Suzanna as well as any other records that you might need up to you. Again have fun and regards, Jk.