Ok, let me really foul up the works, on the baptisms that I listed, on one of the listings, the father was Johann Carl. I don't know if this helps or hurts your quest. I don't have the list in front of me to check for Charles but will check on Tuesday It is interesting that the Heinrich you cited married a Rudebush as one of the families in Hamilton Co. Indiana where my Geigers settled, Joesph, Jacob and Elias. there is the family Roudebush, who came from Pa. Sharon