In a message dated 98-08-02 09:53:07 EDT, you write: > From Berks Co. Pa. Births I have: > > Anna Maria b. 10/11/1780, Carl and Anna Maria > Catharina, b. 10/18/1777 Carl and Anna Maria > Maria Elisabetha, b. 3/13/1776, Carl and Anna Maria > > all from the Records of the Rockland Lutheran Church, Rockland Twp. Berks > Co. Would this be the second Carl or the first? > > that is all in this list, but I would be interested in Henrich b. 1789, > could > he be > my Henrich? > Sharon, to answer briefly--no--I doubt you would be interested in Henrich Geiger born in 1789--we know where he went and who he married which I will include below. Basically my dilemma is as follows. As everyone knows I am working on sorting out the ancestry of Charles Kiger of Greene County, PA who first appeared on a census record in Fayette County, PA in 1800. Based on ages for Charles in a combination of records I can establish that he was born between 1770-1774. I have been attempting to trace the known Charles/Carl Kigers and Geigers, as well as Geiger/Kiger families in which the given name Charles appears at some early point. In the early families Charles only appears to my knowledge in the descendants of Valentine Geiger of Ittlingen, Germany. There are two early Charles Geigers that I know of in this family. Below I will list what I know about each one. This will help you to understand my problem with identifying the Johann Carl Geiger of the Berks County baptismal record I cited in my message to the list. Charles/Carl Geiger, the 11th child of Valentine Geiger (Valentine was born 21 December 1685 in Ittlingen, Germany, and emigrated to America in 1717 and settled in New Hanover Township, Phila. Co., now Montgomery Co., PA). Charles was the child of Valentine's second marriage to Maria Elizabeth Schmidt. This Charles/Carl Geiger married twice--first to Anna Maria Dilbon (with whom he had 8 children) on 26 April 1774, and second to Margaret Specht (Neuman) a widow (with whom he had 2 additional children) on 14 August 1796. The children are: First marriage: Maria Elizabeth Geiger born 13 March 1776. She married George Fritz and had one son. Catherine Geiger born 18 Oct. 1777--died prior to May 1828. Jacob Geiger born 28 Feb. 1779. Married Christina Schoener/Shaner (a descendant of Melchior Shaner and his wife Anna Maria Geiger) and is buried in Pottstown, Montgomery Co., PA. Anna Maria Geiger born 19 Oct. 1780--died prior to May 1828. Margaret Geiger born 1 Oct. 1784--and died prior to May 1828. Charles Geiger, Jr. born about 1787. Married Elizabeth Dengler in New Hanover Twp. and died in 1823 in Pottsgrove Twp., Montgomery Co., PA. Heinrich Geiger born 7 Oct. 1789 in Rockland Twp., Berks County and married Julia Ann Rudebush. They had 14 children. They eventually settled in Ohio where Henry was connected with Wittenburg College. George Geiger born 13 Feb. 1791-bapt. Mertz Church. He married Elizabeth Schoen. Second marriage: Salome Geiger born 5 May 1800. She married George Ziehler in New Hanover Twp. and had no known children. Jonas Geiger born 8 Jan. 1802. He married Elizabeth Hatfield in New Hanover Twp. and had two children. OK--that takes care of the first Charles/Carl Geiger. Now here is the second early Charles in this family: Charles/Carl Geiger, born 26 June, 1772 and bapt. at Mertz Church, Rockland Twp., Berks County, PA. He was the son of Benjamin Geiger, born 9 March 1748 and his wife Elizabeth (maiden name unknown). Benjamin Geiger, in turn, was the 10th child of Valentine Geiger of Ittlingen, Germany named above--and next older brother of the Charles cited above. Therefore, the first Charles Geiger was the uncle of the second one listed here. This Charles is my number one suspect as being the Charles Kiger who settled first in Fayette County and later in Greene County, PA as he disappears from eastern PA at the same time Charles Kiger appears in Fayette County in 1800. This Charles had only one sibling--a brother named Benjamin born in 1777. This Benjamin is the Benjamin Geiger who is the ancestor of Eleanor Myers a researcher on this list. Benjamin moved first to North Annville in what is now Lebanon Co. and later (by the very early 1800s) to Westmoreland County--which would put him very near the Charles Kiger I am studying. Now I think if you review all of the above information, with the realization that it is important for me to consider ALL Charles/Carl Geigers or Kigers--you will understand why I am attempting to identify the Johann Carl Geiger in the baptismal record from Schwartzwald Reformed Church, Exeter Twp. Berks County, PA in 1789. I can rule out any of the above Charles Geigers--so who is THIS Carl/Charles? The only one I know about who would be old enough to be this Charles in the first one listed above who is the son of Valentine--but as I explained, it cannot be him as he had another child born within months of this Sarah bapt. at Schwartzwald. I love a good mystery but I would really like to solve this one. Joan