In a message dated 98-06-27 05:13:14 EDT, you write: > Mary Elizabeth GEIGER is the daughter of Johan Adam GEIGER and Maria > Margaretha FIEDLER, born 13 July 1765 somewhere in Pennsylvania. > She married John SPEAS (SPIES, SPEACE, spelling varies) about 1787, prob- > ably in Surry/Stokes County, North Carolina (?). Parts of Stokes are now in > Forsyth County. She died 24 December 1829 in Rural Hall, Stokes County, and > is interred in the Nazareth Lutheran Church cemetery in Rural Hall, now > Forsyth County. These dates are on her tombstone, excepting the marriage. Désirée, I am not disputing anything that you have written above. I DO believe that Mary Elizabeth is the oldest daughter of John Adam Geiger and Maria Margaretha Fiedler. What I meant by the statement that she is PRESUMED to be their daughter is that unlike the children actually named in Adam's will we have no concrete proof that I am aware of (other than family records) of the relationship. I believe she is named in the will by inference--the inclusion of her husband John Speace as executor--but it isn't quite the same as the other children who ARE named specifically. Adam Geiger died in 1827 and Mary Elizabeth was still lving at this time--it is a bit odd that she is not named in the will when the other children are specifically named. My previous statements about the names and ages of the children of the marriage of Adam Geiger and Maria Margaretha I will repeat below listing the sources: As far as I know the ONLY Geigers or Kigers in Stokes County in 1787 were the family of Johann Adam Geiger and Maria Margaretha Fiedler. The children of this family as I know them are: Mary Elizabeth Geiger (presumed daughter) born 1765--this is based on the family records and research Désirée lists above. Johann Adam Geiger, Jr. baptized March 8, 1767--Adam, Jr. is listed in the research of Bob Kiger of Shelby, NC as being one of two sons (Henry being the other) for which we don't have a date of birth--he was presumed to have been born about 1771--however, I have uncovered a bapt. record which I believe to be that of Adam, Jr. from the Blue Mountain Church in Berks County, PA which gives his date of bapt. as shown above. This bapt. record actually strengthens the argument for Mary Elizabeth Geiger being the oldest child of Adam and Maria Margretha since she most likely was bapt. at this same church 2 years earlier. The records for Blue Mountain Church have been lost prior to 1767 and I believe this is where the early records for this family would be found if extant. It would explain why no bapt. record can be found for her. The church is less than 2 miles from the church where Maria Margaretha was bapt. in 1747 and where her parents lived. This is my basis for the assumption that this is the North Carolina Adam Geiger, Jr. in these records--I cannot account for this AdamSr. and Jr. in any other known Geiger family and believe me I have looked long and hard .Anna Christina Geiger born September 20, 1769 Jacob Geiger born January 1, 1775 Maria Catharina Gieger born April 9, 1777 Johann Peter Geiger born January 15, 1780 Georg Geiger born February 12, 1782 The dates for the five children listed above are taken from the papers of Bob Kiger. I believe they are based on actual records found in Stokes County church records--either Lutheran or Moravian. I do have some doubts though as to the accuracy of the DOB of Georg Geiger above. He later is known as John--probably he was Johan Georg and he married Clary Beck in March of 1796--which would strongly indicate he was born earlier than 1782. Aside from that I have no reason to question the accuracy of the records. Henry Geiger born ??? Gertraudt born ??? I have seen no evidence for establishing a birthdate for either of these two children who are named in their father's will other than the fact that Gertraudt is most likely the youngest. > I do have Sarah (Sally) GEIGER, daughter of Johan Adam GEIGER and Maria > Margaretha FIEDLER; her 1787 birth is supported, supposedly, by the 1850 > census for Stokes County, being 63 in 1850. She married a Harmon KISER on 31 > August 1808. Where is the 1808 marriage record? I have the Stokes Co. marriage bonds (supposedly the complete records) and this marriage is not listed? Did they marry elsewhere? Also, the 1850 census record could support an approximate age for Sally but not a maiden name--again we would need to see the marriage record. I am very interested in seeing such a marriage record or evidence of this marriage. My other question is WHERE is this Sally on the 1790 and 1800 census records? There is no daughter that can't otherwise be accounted for--the numbers don't add up if we add Sarah to the picture. Also, when did she die? If she was living in 1827 why is she not named in Adam's will? I suppose the argument could be made that the co-executor of Adam's will (along with John Speace) was Philip Kiser! Who is Philip Kiser? Is he a son of Harmon and Sarah? If so maybe there IS an explanation for a daughter Sally NOT being named just as there may be one for Mary Elizabeth. I know one thing--I need to learn more about this! There is a reference to her in The Heritage of Stokes County, > North Carolina in volume 2, page 81. I have not seen this book, and beyond > this, I have nothing on Sarah (Sally) GEIGER. I think the Heritage books produced by the NC Gen. Societies are wonderful resources but most of the information in them was supplied by the descendants of the families without anyone checking on the facts given. I personally have found many errors in those books and would always want to see supporting evidence for anything listed in them. I would use them as a starting point in further research--but like you I have never seen the Stokes County book. > How accurate these dates are, I do not know now, but I have Johan > Adam, jnr, born 1771, Anna Christina about 1766, Jacob 1767-1774, Maria > Catherina about 1768, John (NMN) about 1769, Georg about 1770, Henry about > 1773, and Gertaudt about 1771. Spouses are noted here and there. "Stokes > Heritage" is cited (same as the above-named book ?) which I have not seen. Again my basis for the dates for the children is listed above--I will say I believe the date of 1770 is much closer to the truth for Georg than the 1782 date given above. I think this all could bear further looking into. I wonder who supplied the information for the Stoke Co. Heritage book for this family? Does anyone know? If it came from Wenzola Robinson's research I know Bob Kiger was aware of that and made some corrections to her findings. I believe she was the only other person to have contributed greatly to the early research on this family before Bob studied them. > I do hope that I have not caused any furour. Désirée, that is what this list is all about--discussion--even if it entails disagreement. All of us (myself included) still have a lot to learn on these families--we will all benefit from an open discussion of all possibilities. Joan