I think the rationale in trying to sort out who history was/is really talking about is precisely for that reason--trying to avoid pinning the "conviction" on every person in the family named John (or Johannes/Hans/Johanes). You make it sound like those interested in it are on a "witch hunt" and that's just not the case. Only one of the many similarly named persons was the one involved. And although he was convicted, he was later "reprieved". Once identified, we move on to another unknown, that's what genealogy is all about.

Gerry and all, I wouldn't want to imply that the GEIGER name was anathematized in SC ..... too many of them had positions of great importance and trust and married into families of similar ilk. In GA, Hans Ulrich (as name was recorded in church book) and Apollonia raised good, industrious, church-going children. And I can't say enough about their descendants - especially the ones who took on the wilds of Florida! <G> My position is that IF a GEIGER really was involved in the Heresy (at least one account omits that name), he could as easily have been a Hans Jacob as a John. And I'm afraid I just don't see Hans as only a nickname for Johannes. I studied my own GYGER/GEIGER data base, imperfect as it may be, and here's what I found: GYGER (SWT): 6 christened Hans; 21 christened Hans ___; 7 christened Johannes. GEIGER (Amer.): 0 named Hans; 6 named Hans ___ (all b. SWT); 1 named Johannes (b. SWT); 6 named John; 20 named John ___. The GYGER records at Berneck church went back to the 1500s at least, without a break (except for Gov. Hs. Jacob whose family records were at nearby Diepoldsau). The GEIGER names in America came mostly from other records as they had to make do with whatever preacher came along, much of the time, and when they left, their records usually went with them. I wonder if any of those would be with some denomination we haven't thought about? One last bit of trivia: Abraham and Cathrina's 1st child was Hans Jacob, who died young. 2nd child was Hans Jacob. 3rd was Johannes. 4th was Hans Georg, who died young. 5th was Elsbetha, who died young. 6th was Elsbetha. 7th was Hans Ulrich. Although Berneck church apparently didn't mention their leaving SWT, as did D'sau church, it is assumed that all the surviving children left with them. The boys likely were called - familiarly - Jacob, John and Ulrich as they grew up in SC. Anne C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Gieger <[email protected]> > I had seen references to that info too, but the problem I have is, that no > one knows which "John" did it...and therefore bringing it up casts shadows > on all those named Johannes, Johann, Hans, or John. I agree with Anne that > Ulric (Johannes shortened to Hans) may have moved to GA to escape the stigma > attached to his Surname... > > Germans(incl. Austrians, Hapsburgs, etc) and Swiss-Germanic peoples followed > the same naming conventions...It wasn't confusing to them!!! >

I had seen references to that info too, but the problem I have is, that no one knows which "John" did it...and therefore bringing it up casts shadows on all those named Johannes, Johann, Hans, or John. I agree with Anne that Ulric (Johannes shortened to Hans) may have moved to GA to escape the stigma attached to his Surname... Germans(incl. Austrians, Hapsburgs, etc) and Swiss-Germanic peoples followed the same naming conventions...It wasn't confusing to them!!! >From: "rconnell" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [GEIGER] GEIGERS and WEBER Heresy >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:24:55 -0500 > >I've seen that, too. Suppose the authorities chose to call him John just >to >break the monotony?! > >Seriously, I've noticed that my John Martin was called John M. a lot, in >records, but his gravestone says J. Martin. I think Geigers just liked to >confuse folks! > >Anne C. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: walenceus <[email protected]> > > > > I have a copy of an article written by Lawton Delaney Geiger from the > > Lexington Exchange Quarterly, volume two, fall 1982 which states the > > following: > > > > A court action signed by William Bull, Governor, April 25, 1761, stated >that > > on March 18, 1761, John Geiger of Craven County was convicted of >murdering > > George Smithpeter and that he was reprieved from execution, along with >two > > others who were convicted. A South Carolina Gazette article dated April >25, > > 1761, referred to the trial and reported that seven persons were >indicted > > and four of them found guilty- Jacob Wieber, John Geiger, Jacob >Burkhart, > > and Hannah Wieber and that only Jacob wieber was hanged, the other three > > being reprieved. > > > > Faye > > > >==== GEIGER Mailing List ==== >Visit the GEIGER mailing list archives: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GEIGER-L/ > >============================== >9 Health Tips for Computer Genealogists >http://www.thirdage.com/features/tech/ouch/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

I've seen that, too. Suppose the authorities chose to call him John just to break the monotony?! Seriously, I've noticed that my John Martin was called John M. a lot, in records, but his gravestone says J. Martin. I think Geigers just liked to confuse folks! Anne C. ----- Original Message ----- From: walenceus <[email protected]> > I have a copy of an article written by Lawton Delaney Geiger from the > Lexington Exchange Quarterly, volume two, fall 1982 which states the > following: > > A court action signed by William Bull, Governor, April 25, 1761, stated that > on March 18, 1761, John Geiger of Craven County was convicted of murdering > George Smithpeter and that he was reprieved from execution, along with two > others who were convicted. A South Carolina Gazette article dated April 25, > 1761, referred to the trial and reported that seven persons were indicted > and four of them found guilty- Jacob Wieber, John Geiger, Jacob Burkhart, > and Hannah Wieber and that only Jacob wieber was hanged, the other three > being reprieved. > > Faye

Posted on: Geiger/Kiger/Kyger Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/Geiger/10277 Surname: Kiger, Kyger ------------------------- Looking for the parents of Uriah Kiger, born in 1817 according to inscribtion on his tomb stone.He had a brother who migrated to Louisiana with him by the name of James Kiger.They settled in Plaquemine Parish,La. and married with ladies from that part of the country.According to the 1850 census of Louisiana he was from Tennessee.Can any one help on this gentleman.Nintey percent of the Louisiana root direct to them.

As I recall, someone in our group had a lot of STRICKLAND ancestors. On SOMEBODY'S LINKS NEWSLETTER: Genealogical Treasures Found, Vol. 3, No. 9, 12 March 2001, a lady has a STRICKLAND Bible she wants to return to a descendant. There were 17 names recorded. Surnames mentioned were: BIBY, CASH, GREASON, PARKER, PARSONS, RIGSBEE, STRICKLAND, TIPPETT. Anne C.

----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Gieger <[email protected]> > It might be good in all this controversy to note that Jacob(or Jakob) is the > Hebrew form, while James is the Greek and English... > ======================================= Yes, the early Evangelicals of SWT liked Biblical names and classical ones, too. I haven't yet found the best way to enter these GEIGER names in db, but to date, I have 3 HANS JACOB; 1 JOHN JACOB; 6 JACOB; 10 JAMES [all 1800s]; 1 JOHANNES; 6 JOHN; 20 JOHN ____ ; 4 HANS ____ [all b. SWT]. And that doesn't count all those GYGERS in SWT. If they stayed there, I called them GYGER. May change that to GEIGER/GYGER. AARRGGHH!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- I forgot to mention this before, but of all those named Jacob in any way, only 4 would be in the running in 1761. Gov. HANS JACOB, b. 1679, would be 82, if still alive. His son HS. JACOB, b. 1720 [brother of the bad-tempered HERMAN, SR. who was killed by Indians in 1751] would be 41 - no firm info on him. His nephew HS. JACOB, b. 1718 [son of ABRAHAM and bro. of HS. ULRICH] would be 43 - can't pin him down either. His grandson JACOB, b. ca. 1737 [son of HERMAN, SR.] would be 24 - he's the one believed to have wife named Ann ____, who next married a William GEIGER who may have been the William who was a South Carolina legislator from Saxegotha and who died in office. She then marr. a CULPEPPER. Researcher Andrea assigns a will to Jacob that was signed 8 Aug 1772 and proved 18 Sep 1772. "Wife, Ann: 300 ac. of land; son John: 350 ac. land; brother Herman: 100 ac. land; nephew Abraham GEIGER, son of John: 150 ac. land; 'my friend' John Jacob GEIGER; Exs.: wife and bro. Herman; Wits.: Geo. STROUT, John MURFF & Casper VOGELER." Notes on William GEIGER: "A will signed 1 Dec 1780 at Saxe Gotha; probate 19 Jan 1781: mentions wife Ann; stepson John GEIGER; Exs.: wife and his bros. John Jacob GEIGER and Henry GEIGER. Wits.: Mathias LIEBCAP, Adam MINNICK. Anne C.

I have a copy of an article written by Lawton Delaney Geiger from the Lexington Exchange Quarterly, volume two, fall 1982 which states the following: A court action signed by William Bull, Governor, April 25, 1761, stated that on March 18, 1761, John Geiger of Craven County was convicted of murdering George Smithpeter and that he was reprieved from execution, along with two others who were convicted. A South Carolina Gazette article dated April 25, 1761, referred to the trial and reported that seven persons were indicted and four of them found guilty- Jacob Wieber, John Geiger, Jacob Burkhart, and Hannah Wieber and that only Jacob wieber was hanged, the other three being reprieved. Faye

Michelle, I tried the link regarding Emily Geiger's father being John Geiger http://tripod.com/revwar/geigeroutline.html but I keep getting a file could not be found message. Mary

It might be good in all this controversy to note that Jacob(or Jakob) is the Hebrew form, while James is the Greek and English... >From: "rconnell" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: [GEIGER] GEIGERS and WEBER Heresy >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:17:56 -0500 > >Warren, > >In my GEIGER files, I have just found some research notes from 1990 that my >husband made for me at the SC Historical Society Library in Charleston. I >didn't have time to follow up and we never got back there. His notes >follow: >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >GEIGER Vertical File. Thin file; few items. > >1. Typescript Account of EMILY GEIGER'S Famous Ride. Called her "Brave >Revolutionary Heroine". > >2. Several small slips of paper - citations of GEIGER activities: > >a. SC, 25 Apr 1761: Conviction and sentence of JACOB GEIGER, etc. See >also, >May 18, 1761. >b. GEIGER, JACOB. Inventory 2 Aug 1761 (V. 33). Appraisers: Henry >SUSTRUNCK, Michael LIGHTNER, Joshua RAUL. >c. GEIGER, JACOB, JR. SC, Berkeley Co. [2414] 23 Nov 1772. Appraisers of >Estate of JACOB GEIGER, JUN.: George KITT, Henry GALLMAN, Jacob >HANGERBURGH. >d. 1771-74. Citation granted to BARBARA GEIGER and JOHN GEIGER of >Saxegotha >Twp., Berkeley Co., to administer on the estate and effects of JOHN CONRAD >GEIGER, late of same place, as next of kin. To be read in nearest place of >worship 10 Dec 1772. >e. GEORGE FREDERICK GEIGER - motion taken 29 Jan 1775. JACOB GEIGER, >Administrator. Appraisers: Nathaniel BROUGHTON, JR., Jacob SMITH, Abraham >ARCHER [?]. Book 1749-1750, p. 378. >f. GEIGER, WILLIAM. Jacob KOUTH, dec'd. Account of appraisment of his >estate 16 May 1777. Appraisers: WILLIAM GEIGER, Jacob WERNER, Ben >ROWLINSON. >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Re above: >2.a. Was this Jacob the GEIGER involved in 1761 with the Weberites? Who >is >he? This needs checking!! > >2.b. Is this same Jacob as above? Does Appraisal date 2 Aug 1761 indicate >that he was executed? > >2.c. The only Jacob, Jr., I can find is the son [b. 1720] of Gov. Hs. >Jacob >and I have little on him. I have a will dated 8 Aug 1772 for a Jacob >GEIGER; wife Ann; son John; brother Herman; nephew Abraham, son of John; >John Jacob, my friend. But Andrea assigned it to Jacob [b. 1737], son of >Herman, Sr, and it does seem to fit him better. > >2.d. John Conrad [b. 1736-d.1772] was another son of Herman, Sr. His >first >child, b. 1763, was named Jacob. > >2.e. I can't identify this George Frederick GEIGER. > >2.f. I can't place this William [living 1777]. There was an Hon. William >GEIGER of Saxegotha, a member of the Colonial Assembly, who died during >their session of Aug 1779 to Feb 1780. There was also a William who >married >Jacob's widow Ann - in 1782, she was winding up his estate and called >herself "Ann CULPEPPER". Could all be the same? >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Another note I have says: "In 1749, there was a John Jacob GEIGER recorded >in Orangeburg or Saxe Gotha area, with wife Arsilla ANISHANSKY and two >children. Who is he?" If this Arsilla called herself Ann, they could fit >that will I mentioned. Dangerous thinking!! > >It's late and my brain has gone to sleep...... > >Anne C. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Warren > > > Anne: From what research I've been able to dredge up on the Weber Heresy > > of 1761, it appears that the John Geiger that was found guilty (among > > others), was really a Hans Jacob. He was supposedly the one who married > > Arsilla Anishansly. I'm aware of two Hans Jacobs, one a Jr., son of Hans > > Jacob, brother of Herman, Sr., and the other a son of Abraham. I had in > > my files that Hans, Jr. was married to a Margaret Shuler, but I could be > > wrong. Do you know for certain which of these two is the culprit? > > > > > >==== GEIGER Mailing List ==== >Visit the GEIGER mailing list archives: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GEIGER-L/ > >============================== >Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: >Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. >http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

All this is sketchy and difficult to document...It was first shown on the "net by Gene Jeffries on the Orangeburg Genealogical society's webpage...and has been picked up and repeated by a lot of people...one problem comes from the translation of Names...According to George Jones supplement entitled Genealogical Index to The Ebenezer Record book, "The first Christian name was almost invariably that of a Saint, most often Johann, Maria, or Anna and it was not uncommon for several sons and daughters of a family to have Johann, Maria, or Anna as a first name. That was feasible because the second name was the 'Rufname,' or the name by which one was called in social life, and often in the German Records." (p144). On the other hand, the British scribes recorded that first given name. To compound the problem, they tried to Anglicize the name, hence Johann or Johannes was translated John and the person began to go by that name...I am sure you get the picture by now...every son was named Johannes (or Hans, for short) and that was recorded as John... We don't know which son he was...but I am leery of all that Weberite stuff...Weber himself was executed for the killing, and the others were commuted or exonerated ...appears someone is trying to perpetuate slander...since none of it is provable... >From: "Mary Williams" Reply-To: [email protected] To: >[email protected] Subject: [GEIGER] John Geiger and the Weberites Date: >Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:33:48 -0500 > >Has anyone identified the John Geiger, who is mentioned on the website >entitled "The Weberite Heresy", created and owned by Brenda Helen Keck >Reed. According to Ms. Reed, John Geiger, was involved in the slaying of a >Mr. Smithpeter in the Saluda River area of South Carolina. > >Mary > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Warren, In my GEIGER files, I have just found some research notes from 1990 that my husband made for me at the SC Historical Society Library in Charleston. I didn't have time to follow up and we never got back there. His notes follow: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ GEIGER Vertical File. Thin file; few items. 1. Typescript Account of EMILY GEIGER'S Famous Ride. Called her "Brave Revolutionary Heroine". 2. Several small slips of paper - citations of GEIGER activities: a. SC, 25 Apr 1761: Conviction and sentence of JACOB GEIGER, etc. See also, May 18, 1761. b. GEIGER, JACOB. Inventory 2 Aug 1761 (V. 33). Appraisers: Henry SUSTRUNCK, Michael LIGHTNER, Joshua RAUL. c. GEIGER, JACOB, JR. SC, Berkeley Co. [2414] 23 Nov 1772. Appraisers of Estate of JACOB GEIGER, JUN.: George KITT, Henry GALLMAN, Jacob HANGERBURGH. d. 1771-74. Citation granted to BARBARA GEIGER and JOHN GEIGER of Saxegotha Twp., Berkeley Co., to administer on the estate and effects of JOHN CONRAD GEIGER, late of same place, as next of kin. To be read in nearest place of worship 10 Dec 1772. e. GEORGE FREDERICK GEIGER - motion taken 29 Jan 1775. JACOB GEIGER, Administrator. Appraisers: Nathaniel BROUGHTON, JR., Jacob SMITH, Abraham ARCHER [?]. Book 1749-1750, p. 378. f. GEIGER, WILLIAM. Jacob KOUTH, dec'd. Account of appraisment of his estate 16 May 1777. Appraisers: WILLIAM GEIGER, Jacob WERNER, Ben ROWLINSON. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Re above: 2.a. Was this Jacob the GEIGER involved in 1761 with the Weberites? Who is he? This needs checking!! 2.b. Is this same Jacob as above? Does Appraisal date 2 Aug 1761 indicate that he was executed? 2.c. The only Jacob, Jr., I can find is the son [b. 1720] of Gov. Hs. Jacob and I have little on him. I have a will dated 8 Aug 1772 for a Jacob GEIGER; wife Ann; son John; brother Herman; nephew Abraham, son of John; John Jacob, my friend. But Andrea assigned it to Jacob [b. 1737], son of Herman, Sr, and it does seem to fit him better. 2.d. John Conrad [b. 1736-d.1772] was another son of Herman, Sr. His first child, b. 1763, was named Jacob. 2.e. I can't identify this George Frederick GEIGER. 2.f. I can't place this William [living 1777]. There was an Hon. William GEIGER of Saxegotha, a member of the Colonial Assembly, who died during their session of Aug 1779 to Feb 1780. There was also a William who married Jacob's widow Ann - in 1782, she was winding up his estate and called herself "Ann CULPEPPER". Could all be the same? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Another note I have says: "In 1749, there was a John Jacob GEIGER recorded in Orangeburg or Saxe Gotha area, with wife Arsilla ANISHANSKY and two children. Who is he?" If this Arsilla called herself Ann, they could fit that will I mentioned. Dangerous thinking!! It's late and my brain has gone to sleep...... Anne C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Warren > Anne: From what research I've been able to dredge up on the Weber Heresy > of 1761, it appears that the John Geiger that was found guilty (among > others), was really a Hans Jacob. He was supposedly the one who married > Arsilla Anishansly. I'm aware of two Hans Jacobs, one a Jr., son of Hans > Jacob, brother of Herman, Sr., and the other a son of Abraham. I had in > my files that Hans, Jr. was married to a Margaret Shuler, but I could be > wrong. Do you know for certain which of these two is the culprit? >

Posted on: Geiger/Kiger/Kyger Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/Geiger/10276 Surname: GIEGER, HOUGH ------------------------- Am looking for descendants of Christopher Columbus GIEGER who was born in 1854 in MS or LA...second son of Rev. James Samuel and Louisa (HOUGH) GIEGER, originally of Smith County, MS. Grandfather Samuel died in 1868, and widowed Grandmother Louisa was living in Grant Parish, LA when the 1870 US Census was taken...Columbus was living with her, along with brother's Abraham, Jesse, Cyrenius, and sister Mary Calsie. No other record has been found of Columbus, after 1870, but a niece mentioned him in 1994, so he must have been in Titus County, TX with the rest of the family, circa 1900...

Mary, That website, like some others we know, has put out unproven statements and suppositions. Researchers have been trying for almost 240 years to figure out whether a GEIGER was even involved in the WEBER Heresy ... and if so, was he a John [Hans] Jacob, just plain John or just plain Jacob - or someone else! I have some thoughts about it which I will put in another message to the List. Anne C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Williams <[email protected]> > Has anyone identified the John Geiger, who is mentioned on the website entitled "The Weberite Heresy", created and owned by Brenda Helen Keck Reed. According to Ms. Reed, John Geiger, was involved in the slaying of a Mr. Smithpeter in the Saluda River area of South Carolina. >

Posted on: Geiger/Kiger/Kyger Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/Geiger/10274 Surname: Geiger, Kuhns ------------------------- Columbus was my g-grandfather.I'll try to find out about Mary Ann Kuhns.Last info about Daniel,(via message board on geneaology site) he was lodged in Westmoeland Co.jail for stealing a horse circa 1895-99(?) Please contact me with any info on the family,as Columbus's last child recently passed away. No one else seems to know(or care)about family history.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Williams" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: [GEIGER] John Geiger and the Weberites > Has anyone identified the John Geiger, who is mentioned on the website entitled "The Weberite Heresy", created and owned by Brenda Helen Keck Reed. According to Ms. Reed, John Geiger, was involved in the slaying of a Mr. Smithpeter in the Saluda River area of South Carolina. > > Mary > > > ==== GEIGER Mailing List ==== > Check out our GEIGER homepage at: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~geiger/ > > ============================== > Search more than 150 million free records at RootsWeb! > http://searches.rootsweb.com/ > Dear Mary, I have been told that there were a few John Geigers during this timeframe; however, to answer your question... there is a website http://tripod.com/revwar/geigeroutline.html which states that the Revolutionary War Heroine, Emily Geiger, had a father named John Geiger. Check it out. Good luck, Michelle

Has anyone identified the John Geiger, who is mentioned on the website entitled "The Weberite Heresy", created and owned by Brenda Helen Keck Reed. According to Ms. Reed, John Geiger, was involved in the slaying of a Mr. Smithpeter in the Saluda River area of South Carolina. Mary

With Joan Young's permission, I am writing to tell everyone on the Geiger-List of an outstanding achievement... Cousin Patsy West of St. Louis, MO, is a native Mississippian who descends from Jessie and Tobitha (Martin) Gieger, pioneers of Covington County, through their youngest child, Lucinda Gieger, who married Benjamin F. West... Her website was among the first on the Internet, alongside those of Rootsweb and the Orangeburg Genealogical Society of South Carolina (Gene Jefferies...) Patsy's accomplishment was recognized when she won second place, Best Independent Designer in the St. Louis Business Journal 2001 E-Business Awards. Over 200 web sites were submitted. (The awards are on p. 26 of the Business Journal, March 9 issue.) The judges looked at the following sites which she designed and developed: <www.stlsquash.org> (of the St. Louis Squash Racquet Association) <www.symtalk.com> (of the Symtalk Language Systems) <www.websitewiz.com> (Patsy's Business/personal sites - Genealogy) You can see more of her work at <http://www.websitewiz.com/design/business.htm> Patsy says "I'm so happy about this award. As a small web developer, it's very rewarding." I think she deserves our applause... - Gerry Gieger March 2001 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Hi, everybody, from southern Virginia, If there's anyone on this list who lives in or near Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, would he or she please contact me OFF-LIST? I need a contact person in that area in late April to help with a project I'll be working on at that time. The whole project should take such a contact no more than 1-2 hours effort on a Saturday night or Sunday morning and might require nothing more than a telephone call and an e-mail message. Thank you. I look forward to hearing from anybody who can be helpful. Please reply to me directly -- NOT through the list, OK? Best wishes, Richard B. Anderson, Jr., Danville, Virginia mailto:[email protected]

Posted on: Geiger/Kiger/Kyger Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/Geiger/10273 Surname: Geiger, James ------------------------- Looking for parents of Mary Geiger. She was supposedly born in Sharpsburg, Washington, MD abt 1737. In about 1779 she married Griffith James in Pendelton,Anderson, South Carolina. I think that her father was named John or Johann and that her mother was named Gwendolyn. I am aware that there is a Johannes Geiger born in Penn but the years don't match up. Any leads would be appreciated.