Ms. Virginia Crilley GaGenWeb Archives, State Manager I do not normally jump into such discussions, but we have some serious problems about data being incorrectly placed on the web. First, I agree with you that no one should take data from any source other that the source documents a "gospel." However, there are too many inexperienced researchers who DO all of their work based upon their gleanings from the web. Many have never set foot in a library or research center. Secondly, I agree with John that it is maddening to have erroneous data on the web. Let me give you a prime example. Mr. Steven Carrol Pearsall published a Gedcom file, http://www.mindspring.com/~marydrake/spear/spear.htm , that lists my mother's mother as "Selma Inez Pritchett." Selma was my uncle's wife, not my grandmother. He shows my mother and her sister as children of their brother. When I contacted Mr. Pearsall about this some years ago, he told me he lost the password to his file and could not make corrections! How absurd! Secondly, he has published information, such as birth dates, of living people. Mine, for one! This is a violation of privacy as well as direct lack of breeding on his part! I am thankful he is not close kin! You said in your response to John words to the effect that we cannot be sure of everything. I know or knew the people in Mr. Pearsall's file and I know he is absolutely WRONG! But due to his carelessness and sloppy work, it will probably haunt researchers for generations to come! We are planning to list web sites such as Mr. Pearsall's and several others we know about on a "Watch List" to warn researchers about such flagrant errors. As you can verify on our web page, www.twiggscounty.com , we endorse "North Carolina Genealogical Society STATEMENT OF CODE OF ETHICS." As I am sure you agree, there is no substitute for integrity! We believe that all genealogical data should be referenced to a source, especially when the data is published. The information came from somewhere, and if it is not the figment of someone's imagination, the source should be able to be quoted. Best wishes, Francis G. Clark Web Master www.twiggscounty.com -----Original Message----- From: Crilley [mailto:varcsix@hot.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:23 AM To: GATWIGGS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GATWIGGS] Clarification about FGS John, I'm sorry you have had an unsatisfactory experience with the Family Group Sheets. I've had so many positive responses toward them that I wanted to take this opportunity to explain more about the process. When someone submits a Family Group Sheet (or ANY data for that matter that as been created by an individual), this is merely their view point. While it may be inaccurate in your opinion, it is their submission, and we honor it as such. Regrettably, we don't feel we have the expertise to "go into" their materials and make corrections. We'd probably really make a mess of things when we don't even know the family at all. The best thing you could do in this instance, is to submit your own version of the family--- provide documentation to support your listings----and then let individuals decide for themselves when they visit the Family Group Sheets. Also you might want to work directly with the "submitter" and share your thoughts. Working together perhaps the submitter then would want to "resubmit" the material with changes that you have suggested. Either way, it would be very beneficial for the two of you to work together. In genealogy, I have found very little absolute proof on anything! We take the best evidence we can find, and then make a "theory". When anything later comes along to prove it, then we're usually delighted to be proven wrong! The GAGenWeb Archives contain actual data (deeds, wills, court minutes etc), but even those have been in error. I have a marriage record from a courthouse in which my ancestors name was spelled with the beginning letter of G instead of R !! Took some real looking to find this. Since anything we put on-line is transcribed, keep in mind that handwriting may have been misinterpreted....and usually submitter welcome your input and corrections. But again...this correction needs to come to us from the one who submitted (and trusted) the materials to us. I guess what I'm saying is that many records (even those from the court house) may contain errors due to clerk's copying it; misinformation in the first place, etc. The Family History pages (LDS) have this very same problem. Haven't you encountered data on their pages that you think are not accurate. Those submissions are only as good as the submitter. This is why it is so helpful when we do submit information that we do our very, very best to give some supporting documentation. At any rate, I think it is much better to get some "clues" on line than nothing at all. Nobody should believe everything they read in a book, on-line, or hear without also using their own knowledge and experience to evaluate it. Please feel free to correspond with me personally should you have other questions or concerns. Source: GATWIGGS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GATWIGGS] Family Group Sheets Since someone on the TWIGGS list brought up this website: Several weeks ago when I first visited the archives of the Family Group List I found quite a bit of the stuff in the archives of that list to incorrect. When I noticed this fact I informed the person who is the List Owner of that website, privately, of what I had found in error. I was later to find out this person, who lives in TX, also was the list owner of the Richmond County, GA mailing list. I will not bother to post her response to my private comment to her nor the attitude she subsequently displayed towards me but needless to say I "unsubed" from her RICHMOND County, GA mailing list shortly afterwards. I was subsequently very glad of that fact because she quickly informed me that if I had not -- she would have kicked me off of that mailing list. The reason I questioned this material in the first place was because it was my family. However, most of all, it was material on my 3rd GGF that was in error. I have only had the displeasure to deal with one other list owner, like this, in all of my years of genealogical research and this person was a list owner of a county up in NC. Hopefully, there will be no others but if there are -- I will unsub from their mailing list just as quickly as I did hers. The sad part about it was -- this persons wasn't hurting me at all. She was hurting the subscribers to the Richmond County, GA website - maybe all 20 of them <grin>. Virginia Crilley GAGenWeb Archives, State Manager ==== GATWIGGS Mailing List ==== Post your Obituaries for Twiggs County http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ga/TwiggsBios ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Francis, You and I must be related because we sure do think alike. <grin> This stuff on the Family Group Sheets kind of reminds me of that genealogical website (EGS) that is out of the Houston County, GA area. They will publish anything regardless of whether it is accurate or not or who submitted it. This instance reminds me of the time I found my grandmother and grandfather on EGS website and the information listed was all wrong. I wrote the owner of this website and asked him where in the world he got that wrong information. He was real nice but he stated this was not his information but someone else's and gave me their email address. My first question to the submitter was "How were he/she related to my grandparents?" The facts were the submitter was not in any way related to my grandparents and she then had the audacity to tell me they got that information from someone else but she did not remember whom. What a run around. I did give her the correct information and she said she would correct it. I checked back on this website over a year later and it had never been corrected. This is one of the reasons I, now, try to give pertinent genealogical information to family members or persons who I believe to be family members. The reason I have taken this stance is because some people will publish genealogical information to just about anybody that will take it, regardless of whether it is work in progress or not. Not only that, but they will take what you say about a particular individual or family and edit it in such a fashion that what was once "questionable," now becomes fact and attribute it all back to you. <grin> Or, take for example those people who do not want to wait the several weeks it takes for Rootsweb or Ancestry to actually publish their GEDCOM material, therefore they publish the same GEDCOM material over and over again to these websites. I guess they do not realize how tedious it becomes scanning down through this identical material, line by line. As for Ancestry, I published a GEDCOM to them several years ago and have spent the past year trying to get it deleted, without success, because it not only shows up on Ancestry but, now, World Connect. Most of this GEDCOM is correct but a few critical assignment are incorrect, which is why I have asked that it be deleted. I guess they are afraid of loosing what they have and since Ancestry is a money making endeavor -- they have to deliver something to their subscribers, even if it is incorrect. <grin> For those of you who know me from the DANIEL Mailing list, you know I run a "tight ship" but a "rude ship." You also know I will do anything I can to help you in your research and if I have a complaint I handle it with you, privately. We all make mistakes, that's the name of the game. We all have ancestors that we have to depend on others to provide significant leads, especially because of all of the many family entanglements these marriages usually entail. Plus, we have all had to eat our research from time to time, such is the nature of the beast. However, after these "seven course meals," we move on and we never take things personally or wear our research on our sleeves. <grin> John R. Clarke For some of the best in the outdoors visit www.outdoorwriter.com This message is virus also free ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Clark" <fgclark@mindspring.com> To: <GATWIGGS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [GATWIGGS] Clarification about FGS > Ms. Virginia Crilley > GaGenWeb Archives, State Manager > > I do not normally jump into such discussions, but we have some serious > problems about data being incorrectly placed on the web. > > First, I agree with you that no one should take data from any source > other that the source documents a "gospel." However, there are too many > inexperienced researchers who DO all of their work based upon their > gleanings from the web. Many have never set foot in a library or > research center. > > Secondly, I agree with John that it is maddening to have erroneous data > on the web. Let me give you a prime example. Mr. Steven Carrol > Pearsall published a Gedcom file, > http://www.mindspring.com/~marydrake/spear/spear.htm , that lists my > mother's mother as "Selma Inez Pritchett." Selma was my uncle's wife, > not my grandmother. He shows my mother and her sister as children of > their brother. When I contacted Mr. Pearsall about this some years ago, > he told me he lost the password to his file and could not make > corrections! How absurd! Secondly, he has published information, such > as birth dates, of living people. Mine, for one! This is a violation > of privacy as well as direct lack of breeding on his part! I am > thankful he is not close kin! > > You said in your response to John words to the effect that we cannot be > sure of everything. I know or knew the people in Mr. Pearsall's file > and I know he is absolutely WRONG! But due to his carelessness and > sloppy work, it will probably haunt researchers for generations to come! > > We are planning to list web sites such as Mr. Pearsall's and several > others we know about on a "Watch List" to warn researchers about such > flagrant errors. As you can verify on our web page, > www.twiggscounty.com , we endorse "North Carolina Genealogical Society > STATEMENT OF CODE OF ETHICS." As I am sure you agree, there is no > substitute for integrity! > > We believe that all genealogical data should be referenced to a source, > especially when the data is published. The information came from > somewhere, and if it is not the figment of someone's imagination, the > source should be able to be quoted. > > Best wishes, > > Francis G. Clark > Web Master > www.twiggscounty.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Crilley [mailto:varcsix@hot.rr.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:23 AM > To: GATWIGGS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [GATWIGGS] Clarification about FGS > > John, > I'm sorry you have had an unsatisfactory experience with the Family > Group > Sheets. I've had so many positive responses toward them that I wanted > to > take this opportunity to explain more about the process. > > When someone submits a Family Group Sheet (or ANY data for that matter > that as been created by an individual), this is merely their view point. > While it may be inaccurate in your opinion, it is their submission, and > we > honor it as such. > > Regrettably, we don't feel we have the expertise to "go into" their > materials and make corrections. We'd probably really make a mess of > things > when we don't even know the family at all. > > The best thing you could do in this instance, is to submit your own > version > of the family--- provide documentation to support your listings----and > then > let individuals decide for themselves when they visit the Family Group > Sheets. > > Also you might want to work directly with the "submitter" and share your > > thoughts. Working together perhaps the submitter then would want to > "resubmit" the material with changes that you have suggested. Either > way, > it would be very beneficial for the two of you to work together. > > In genealogy, I have found very little absolute proof on anything! We > take > the best evidence we can find, and then make a "theory". When anything > later comes along to prove it, then we're usually delighted to be proven > wrong! > > The GAGenWeb Archives contain actual data (deeds, wills, court minutes > etc), but even those have been in error. I have a marriage record from > a > courthouse in which my ancestors name was spelled with the beginning > letter > of G instead of R !! Took some real looking to find this. > > Since anything we put on-line is transcribed, keep in mind that > handwriting > may have been misinterpreted....and usually submitter welcome your input > > and corrections. But again...this correction needs to come to us from > the > one who submitted (and trusted) the materials to us. > > I guess what I'm saying is that many records (even those from the court > house) may contain errors due to clerk's copying it; misinformation in > the > first place, etc. > > The Family History pages (LDS) have this very same problem. Haven't you > > encountered data on their pages that you think are not accurate. Those > submissions are only as good as the submitter. > > This is why it is so helpful when we do submit information that we do > our > very, very best to give some supporting documentation. > > At any rate, I think it is much better to get some "clues" on line than > nothing at all. Nobody should believe everything they read in a book, > on-line, or hear without also using their own knowledge and experience > to > evaluate it. > > Please feel free to correspond with me personally should you have other > questions or concerns. > > > > Source: GATWIGGS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GATWIGGS] Family Group Sheets > > Since someone on the TWIGGS list brought up this website: > Several weeks ago when I first visited the archives of the Family Group > List I found quite a bit of the stuff in the archives of that list to > incorrect. When I noticed this fact I informed the person who is the > List > Owner of that website, privately, of what I had found in error. > I was later to find out this person, who lives in TX, also was the list > owner of the Richmond County, GA mailing list. I will not bother to post > her response to my private comment to her nor the attitude she > subsequently > displayed towards me but needless to say I "unsubed" from her RICHMOND > County, GA mailing list shortly afterwards. I was subsequently very glad > of > that fact because she quickly informed me that if I had not -- she would > have kicked me off of that mailing list. > The reason I questioned this material in the first place was because it > was my family. However, most of all, it was material on my 3rd GGF that > was > in error. > I have only had the displeasure to deal with one other list owner, like > this, in all of my years of genealogical research and this person was a > list > owner of a county up in NC. Hopefully, there will be no others but if > there > are -- I will unsub from their mailing list just as quickly as I did > hers. > The sad part about it was -- this persons wasn't hurting me at all. She > was hurting the subscribers to the Richmond County, GA website - maybe > all > 20 of them <grin>. > > > > Virginia Crilley > GAGenWeb Archives, State Manager > > > ==== GATWIGGS Mailing List ==== > Post your Obituaries for Twiggs County > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ga/TwiggsBios > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GATWIGGS Mailing List ==== > Support Rootsweb! > http://resources.rootsweb.com/USA/ > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Francis (et al), May I jump into this? (First, let me say that I've read this about six times in an effort to be sure I offend no one -- for that is definitely NOT my intention.) The internet is a (fortunate / unfortunate) conglomeration of people all expressing their first amendment rights. Whether we think it's fortunate or unfortunate depends on our frame of reference. There are many people with many different motives on the internet doing family history research. Some cannot get to libraries for various reasons. Some are "serious", trained historians or genealogists. Others are novices looking for their families (like me). All of these people have the right to express their opinions on the internet. Must we castigate each other because we approach a problem in a different way -- or don't hold to the same "high standards" as others? (I surely wish I had known to keep careful records when I started -- does this mean I should not publish what I recorded?) Certainly, there are some people who are unscrupulous -- but I'll bet they're a very small minority. The vast majority of the people I've met on the internet are sincere and want to both find information on their families and to help others who are looking. It saddens me to read one researcher casting aspersions on another -- even if it were true. I teach for a living. I know that if I criticize (even justly) a student in a class, it throws a pall over the entire mood of the class and thus limits the discourse I so earnestly try to elicit. I have had the pleasure of meeting many people in my family history wanderings who were so much better at this than I am. Only a very few have criticized (or demonized) me -- and those that did hurt me. Those type of remarks do not promote a positive outcome but, in addition to castigating, hurting and suppressing those that are the subject of the scorn, they dampen the fires of enthusiasm of all who witness them. It is my firm belief that all of us really want our actions to be productive -- and publicly airing negative feelings about others not only hurt those they're directed toward, they intimidate others who might have contributed but will now remain silent. (May I ask that you consider some means of posting your "warning" message so as to not hurt people who are sincerely trying to either do serious research or to just have some fun with their search for ancestors and cousins?) (If this were a senior or post-graduate history course, most of us would receive failing grades -- but it's not. It's an open forum. However, those sites that hold to higher standards than others should be recognized and lauded for doing so.) Please understand -- I know none of us really means to come across as demeaning others, but it does sometimes seem that we attack those whose methods or philosophies differ from ours -- and this is, I think, counterproductive to our common goal. I believe we each contribute something, some more than others (yes, even if it's in error). And, in this free-speech venue, wouldn't we be wiser to practice a little tolerance for other approaches? ================ One other thing -- the issue of publishing information on living people. One of my most difficult dilemmas is determining when or whether to publish data on people that may (or may not) be living. Isn't it reasonable to publish information which is already in the public domain? How is this a violation of privacy or a "lack of breeding". (It has already been shown that it is not a factor in "identity theft".) Isn't it a sign of careful, serious documentation and reporting of facts? Don't most states make available birth records of those who over 50 years of age (I know some states do)? Aren't marriage records and other information made public (some of it on-line) after a certain period of time? What's wrong with making it available from another source? At 12:32 PM 3/3/2002 , Francis Clark <fgclark@mindspring.com> wrote: .... (snip) >I do not normally jump into such discussions, but we have some serious >problems about data being incorrectly placed on the web. > >First, I agree with you that no one should take data from any source >other that the source documents a "gospel." However, there are too many >inexperienced researchers who DO all of their work based upon their >gleanings from the web. Many have never set foot in a library or >research center. ... (snip) >................... Secondly, he has published information, such >as birth dates, of living people. Mine, for one! This is a violation >of privacy as well as direct lack of breeding on his part! .... (snip) >We are planning to list web sites such as Mr. Pearsall's and several >others we know about on a "Watch List" to warn researchers about such >flagrant errors. As you can verify on our web page, >www.twiggscounty.com , we endorse "North Carolina Genealogical Society >STATEMENT OF CODE OF ETHICS." As I am sure you agree, there is no >substitute for integrity! > >We believe that all genealogical data should be referenced to a source, >especially when the data is published. The information came from >somewhere, and if it is not the figment of someone's imagination, the >source should be able to be quoted. > >Best wishes, > >Francis G. Clark >Web Master >www.twiggscounty.com Tom Cloud <cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu>