Dude, lighten up. Some of the records were captured, the rest were confiscated, I just didn't see any reason to write a book. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <rw@pone.com> To: <GATHOMAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [GATHOMAS] Re: CSA Service Record of Sidney Williams > garnetngold@earthlink.net wrote: > > >The federal government confiscated Confederate government records at the close of the conflict. Because the Confederate government no longer exists, the U.S. Archives is the official repository of Confederate governmental records so if you want copies of any Confederate governmental records, contact the National Archives. > > > This may seem a small distinction, but I, at least, think that it is an > important one. The records of the Confederate government, or at least a > portion of them, were *captured* in transit as the Confederate > government attempted to relocate at some point south of Richmond. > Capture is somewhat a different thing than confiscation. > > Also... capture is not the only source of original Confederate records > now held by the National Archives. The Compiled Confederate Service > Records were compiled by the U.S. War Department for the purpose of > pension application verification at the request of the governments of > the former states of the Confederacy both from captured records and from > additional records turned over for that purpose by the states. Military > records created in the 19th century were typically in the form of rolls > (lists of men's names) of various sorts and they were not in a format > conducive following the activities of individuals. Most of the > documents that are now to be seen in the Compiled Confederate Service > Records are not Confederate records at all, but rather were a kind of > manually excerpted copies created by the U.S. War Department. Only > records dealing with one individual, or sometimes a small group of > individuals, in Confederate military service, were actually taken from > the Confederate records and placed directly into the Compiled > Confederate Service records. Those can often be seen to bear the words > "Rebel Archives" inside of an inked oval stamp. One thing that came > from the excerpting process is a magnification of possible errors. > There were, of course, errors in the original records... but in the > excerpting process, done many years after the war and by clerks in > Washington, DC, many additional errors were added... errors of omission, > errors of spelling, etc. Also, because the compilers knew nothing of > the people whose records they were compiling, they sometimes turned one > man into several or several into one, due to judgments being made as to > whether or not fully spelled-out names of individuals and initials which > matched them in part or in whole as to the first letter of their first > or first and middle names, referred to the same man. > > >HOWEVER, several southern states gave pensions to Confederate veterans beginning around 1890, generally for wives widowed in the conflict and maimed veterans. The qualifications gradually lessened so your relative may have had to wait until 1910 or 1920 before he (or his widow) could apply. The veteran/widow applied in the state in which they currently lived, NOT where the veteran had enlisted (i.e., my great-grandfather enlisted in NC, but my great-grandmother was living in FL when she applied and was given a pension by the State of FL.) > > > Typically there were income & asset restrictions, so even if they lived > into the 1920s a Confederate veteran or his widow may have *never* > qualified for a Confederate pension. Where they exist, pension records > are often good for identifying a small subset of individuals and > matching them to their service records... plus they also sometimes give > other information of genealogical interest. In relatively *rare* cases > they identify a few individuals who survived from Confederate units and > even more from state units for which there are *NO* surviving records, > or few records... particularly for those men who joined the unit near > the end of the war. Examples of such units raised in or near the local > vicinity are the 29th Georgia Cavalry Battalion (Confederate... poor > records) and the 12th Georgia Militia (State of Georgia... no records). > The nearest thing to a single place in original records to look for a > record of a Confederate soldier is the Compiled Confederate Service > Records, but even for soldiers in units on Confederate service I have > found examples of casualty lists in wartime newspapers that list men who > do not appear in any rolls at all. I have seen accusations that > virtually all of the last handful of living Confederate veterans were > *frauds*... but I don't know. I am quite certain that there were plenty > of Confederate soldiers who names were either never recorded... or the > records were lost or deliberately destroyed at the end of the war. > > It's by no means complete or perfect, but here's a sort of general guide > to Confederate records that I wrote a few years ago: > http://pone.com/ts/records.htm I never have got around to adding to > this, specific bibliographical information concerning indexes... but by > far the most comprehensive is Stewart Sifakis's _Compendium of the > Confederate Armies_. If whoever you are looking for does not appear > there, I would suggest searching in every other index that can be > found... plus in the Compiled Confederate Service Records themselves. I > have found men there who appear in no indexes at all, due to the problem > previously mentioned, of combining and/or splitting individuals' identities. > > RW >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/474.541.554.556.1.1 Message Board Post: Lori My great-grandfather was Francis W. Dollar, by his first wife Millie Johnson. I also was in contact for a time with Mark. We exchanged information on Frank's family with Millie and Frank's family with Gertrude. I would like to talk with you also. Please contact me at keernst@hotmail.com

I was sent a compiled service record once from the Georgia state archives. The person who sent it typed a small note on the cover letter. She wrote down that the man's wife had applied for a Confederate widow's pension. I bless her for that because that record ended up making a genealogy connection for me that was out of this world! I encourage everyone to look for a pension application even if you don't think there was one. Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Mathis" <leemathis@earthlink.net> To: <GATHOMAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: [GATHOMAS] More on Compiled Military Service Records > Adding to Mr White's note... > > The Confederate Compiled Military Service Records (CMSR) are all on > microfilm and indexed alphabetically by last name. This > microfilming/indexing effort was financed by the United Daughters of the > Confederacy (early in the 20th Century, I believe). > > On the other hand, while many Union CMSRs have been microfilmsd, the > majority have not. The primary reason for their not being on microfilmed is > simply... Budget. The Archives simply has not had the budget to pay for the > effort. Union CMSRs from veterans from states (e.g.: NE, CO, CA, DE, WY, > etc) that contributed small numbers of volunteers HAVE been microfilmed. On > the other hand, States such as PA, MA & NY have not. This is an ongoing > project, but I am unaware of the projected completion date. > > So, for those of us with ancestors who were Confederate veterans, you can > probably find their CMSR in the National Archives. One word of caution, > however... > > Many records only contain sketchy info about the vet. The records were > "compiled" from other Confederate record sources and info was written on the > forms. In my case, my g-g-grandfather's CMSR only shows when/where he > enlisted, his unit of assignment, when he was paid and not much else. If the > vet was captured, wounded or killed, this info may also be on the CMSR. In > my ancestor's case..., her survived and lived until 1891. > > > Hope this helps... > > Lee Mathis > Arlington, VA > > > ==== GATHOMAS Mailing List ==== > The RootsWeb Thomas County web pages are now maintained by > Kimberly Ryan Gandy. Check out the pages at www.rootsweb.com/~gathomas. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Adding to Mr White's note... The Confederate Compiled Military Service Records (CMSR) are all on microfilm and indexed alphabetically by last name. This microfilming/indexing effort was financed by the United Daughters of the Confederacy (early in the 20th Century, I believe). On the other hand, while many Union CMSRs have been microfilmsd, the majority have not. The primary reason for their not being on microfilmed is simply... Budget. The Archives simply has not had the budget to pay for the effort. Union CMSRs from veterans from states (e.g.: NE, CO, CA, DE, WY, etc) that contributed small numbers of volunteers HAVE been microfilmed. On the other hand, States such as PA, MA & NY have not. This is an ongoing project, but I am unaware of the projected completion date. So, for those of us with ancestors who were Confederate veterans, you can probably find their CMSR in the National Archives. One word of caution, however... Many records only contain sketchy info about the vet. The records were "compiled" from other Confederate record sources and info was written on the forms. In my case, my g-g-grandfather's CMSR only shows when/where he enlisted, his unit of assignment, when he was paid and not much else. If the vet was captured, wounded or killed, this info may also be on the CMSR. In my ancestor's case..., her survived and lived until 1891. Hope this helps... Lee Mathis Arlington, VA

garnetngold@earthlink.net wrote: >The federal government confiscated Confederate government records at the close of the conflict. Because the Confederate government no longer exists, the U.S. Archives is the official repository of Confederate governmental records so if you want copies of any Confederate governmental records, contact the National Archives. > This may seem a small distinction, but I, at least, think that it is an important one. The records of the Confederate government, or at least a portion of them, were *captured* in transit as the Confederate government attempted to relocate at some point south of Richmond. Capture is somewhat a different thing than confiscation. Also... capture is not the only source of original Confederate records now held by the National Archives. The Compiled Confederate Service Records were compiled by the U.S. War Department for the purpose of pension application verification at the request of the governments of the former states of the Confederacy both from captured records and from additional records turned over for that purpose by the states. Military records created in the 19th century were typically in the form of rolls (lists of men's names) of various sorts and they were not in a format conducive following the activities of individuals. Most of the documents that are now to be seen in the Compiled Confederate Service Records are not Confederate records at all, but rather were a kind of manually excerpted copies created by the U.S. War Department. Only records dealing with one individual, or sometimes a small group of individuals, in Confederate military service, were actually taken from the Confederate records and placed directly into the Compiled Confederate Service records. Those can often be seen to bear the words "Rebel Archives" inside of an inked oval stamp. One thing that came from the excerpting process is a magnification of possible errors. There were, of course, errors in the original records... but in the excerpting process, done many years after the war and by clerks in Washington, DC, many additional errors were added... errors of omission, errors of spelling, etc. Also, because the compilers knew nothing of the people whose records they were compiling, they sometimes turned one man into several or several into one, due to judgments being made as to whether or not fully spelled-out names of individuals and initials which matched them in part or in whole as to the first letter of their first or first and middle names, referred to the same man. >HOWEVER, several southern states gave pensions to Confederate veterans beginning around 1890, generally for wives widowed in the conflict and maimed veterans. The qualifications gradually lessened so your relative may have had to wait until 1910 or 1920 before he (or his widow) could apply. The veteran/widow applied in the state in which they currently lived, NOT where the veteran had enlisted (i.e., my great-grandfather enlisted in NC, but my great-grandmother was living in FL when she applied and was given a pension by the State of FL.) > Typically there were income & asset restrictions, so even if they lived into the 1920s a Confederate veteran or his widow may have *never* qualified for a Confederate pension. Where they exist, pension records are often good for identifying a small subset of individuals and matching them to their service records... plus they also sometimes give other information of genealogical interest. In relatively *rare* cases they identify a few individuals who survived from Confederate units and even more from state units for which there are *NO* surviving records, or few records... particularly for those men who joined the unit near the end of the war. Examples of such units raised in or near the local vicinity are the 29th Georgia Cavalry Battalion (Confederate... poor records) and the 12th Georgia Militia (State of Georgia... no records). The nearest thing to a single place in original records to look for a record of a Confederate soldier is the Compiled Confederate Service Records, but even for soldiers in units on Confederate service I have found examples of casualty lists in wartime newspapers that list men who do not appear in any rolls at all. I have seen accusations that virtually all of the last handful of living Confederate veterans were *frauds*... but I don't know. I am quite certain that there were plenty of Confederate soldiers who names were either never recorded... or the records were lost or deliberately destroyed at the end of the war. It's by no means complete or perfect, but here's a sort of general guide to Confederate records that I wrote a few years ago: http://pone.com/ts/records.htm I never have got around to adding to this, specific bibliographical information concerning indexes... but by far the most comprehensive is Stewart Sifakis's _Compendium of the Confederate Armies_. If whoever you are looking for does not appear there, I would suggest searching in every other index that can be found... plus in the Compiled Confederate Service Records themselves. I have found men there who appear in no indexes at all, due to the problem previously mentioned, of combining and/or splitting individuals' identities. RW

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams, Dekle, Miller, Mims, Westfaul Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/1350.2.1 Message Board Post: Karen, Thanks for the info! :)

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/0d.2ADE/1350.2 Message Board Post: The National Archives has the Compiled Military Service Records of Confederate officers, noncommissioned officers and enlisted men. Georgia's microfilm no. is M226. The GA Archives has a set of books listing GA officers and enlisted men so you may want to contact them first. The federal government confiscated Confederate government records at the close of the conflict. Because the Confederate government no longer exists, the U.S. Archives is the official repository of Confederate governmental records so if you want copies of any Confederate governmental records, contact the National Archives. HOWEVER, several southern states gave pensions to Confederate veterans beginning around 1890, generally for wives widowed in the conflict and maimed veterans. The qualifications gradually lessened so your relative may have had to wait until 1910 or 1920 before he (or his widow) could apply. The veteran/widow applied in the state in which they currently lived, NOT where the veteran had enlisted (i.e., my great-grandfather enlisted in NC, but my great-grandmother was living in FL when she applied and was given a pension by the State of FL.)

I have an ancestor who is listed in the 1850 slave schedule as having just over 40 slaves. He is listed in the 1860 slave schedule (I think it is him by the handwriting.) as having about 120. His 1861 property appraisal says he has 30 slaves and names them. However, a few slaves are mentioned by name in his will, etc, that ddi not make this aappraisal. This is driving me crazy as it seems I can't get a steady number on how many he had. I know the numbers can fluctuate a little, but therer is a big difference to around 5o to over 100. Is there anything else I can look at that might list slave numbers? I was wondering if tax information might do it. Wendy

Please, could each person remember to limit his/her quoting in replying to a note to the List here......it helps cut down on the amt of space used unnecessarily. I know it is useful & necessary to quote part of the note, but just imagine if each person who replies quoting the whole Digest Form in each reply - that seems to be happening 'way too much now! Thks & Happy Holidays, Sarah

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams, Dekle, Miller , Westfaul, Mims Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/1350.1 Message Board Post: Thanks Richard and Wendy and all who helped me find this info! You're the best!:)

If you are wanting pension records for someone who lived in Georgia, you can get them from the state archives in Atlanta. They will even send your record by mail for a fee. I sent for my ancestor's this way. It yielded a gold mine connection for me family tree wise. Get the record if you can. You never know what you might find. Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: <noniepeace@hotmail.com> To: <GATHOMAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 5:19 PM Subject: [GATHOMAS] CSA Service Record of Sidney Williams > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: Williams, Dekle, Miller, Mims, Westfaul > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/1350 > > Message Board Post: > > My GGreatUncle, Sidney Williams, lost a leg during his service to the Confederacy as a member of the 57th GA Infantry, Co. A (The Dixie Boys). > Could someone please tell me who to contact to get a copy of his service records? I would like to know which battles he was in, when he lost his leg, and when he was discharged back to Thomas County where he was from and where his family lived. > > Thanks! > > > ==== GATHOMAS Mailing List ==== > The RootsWeb Thomas County web pages are now maintained by > Kimberly Ryan Gandy. Check out the pages at www.rootsweb.com/~gathomas. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

The answer to this may depend upon where you live. For instance, if you are anywhere near Tallahassee, the Florida State Archives has copies of both military service records and pension applications for Confederate soldiers from a number of states, including Georgia. This is not just the index. They have those too; but I am referring to copies of the actual records from the National Archives and (in the case of pension records) from the archives of the various states... on microfilm. This is particularly useful for a person like myself, whose ancestors lived on both sides of the Florida/Georgia state line, and a great many of them crossed the state line in either direction (or both), to join up. RW noniepeace@hotmail.com wrote: >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Surnames: Williams, Dekle, Miller, Mims, Westfaul >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/1350 > >Message Board Post: > >My GGreatUncle, Sidney Williams, lost a leg during his service to the Confederacy as a member of the 57th GA Infantry, Co. A (The Dixie Boys). >Could someone please tell me who to contact to get a copy of his service records? I would like to know which battles he was in, when he lost his leg, and when he was discharged back to Thomas County where he was from and where his family lived. > >Thanks! > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams, Dekle, Miller, Mims, Westfaul Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/1350 Message Board Post: My GGreatUncle, Sidney Williams, lost a leg during his service to the Confederacy as a member of the 57th GA Infantry, Co. A (The Dixie Boys). Could someone please tell me who to contact to get a copy of his service records? I would like to know which battles he was in, when he lost his leg, and when he was discharged back to Thomas County where he was from and where his family lived. Thanks!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: THOMAS, LYLES, PALMER, RENFRO, FORD Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/0d.2ADE/1349 Message Board Post: A THOMAS DNA project began recruiting participants in October, 2003. Since that time, 20 Thomas males have joined and ordered the kit. During the coming days we will be posting the first of our test results at http://thomasdna.home.comcast.net Our participants represent documented Thomas lines from Germany, Wales & Great Brittain. They also represent families which immigrated to America to Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Tennessee, North & South Carolina, Georgia & Alabama. We believe our project will grow and will aid the researchers in these lines to determine connections which might exist between theirs and other Thomas families. Our research and paper trails will then aid us in learning who these common ancestors might be. If you are a direct Thomas male or have a Thomas brother, father, uncle, cousin and you would like to learn more about the project, please visit http://thomasdna.home.comcast.net. And for more information about the DNA process follow the links from our web page. You might also visit www.ftdna.com. Regards, Bonnie Thomas Chaffin, Group Admin., Thomas DNA Project btchaffin@comcast.net

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: davis , horns, shacklett Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/0d.2ADE/793.795.1 Message Board Post: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT YOUR GEORGE DAVIS WHO WAS MARRIED TO A HORN ! WHERE WAS HE FROM , MIDDLE NAME , WHERE DIED , ETC. THANK YOU GENE

Karen Vereen, I hear that the Colquitt County area had a Vereen family there. I am related to one of the Mitchell branches in Thomas County. I have an ancestor who had a half brother who moved from Thomas County and went to Texas. He came back in later life and stayed with relatives in the Thomas-Colquitt County area. One of the family stories is that he would stay with some people named Vereen at times as they were old friends. I know I will most likely never know who they were and how he knew them. I assume he knew someone in the family in his youth. Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Vereen" <garnetngold@earthlink.net> To: <GATHOMAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [GATHOMAS] Death Records > The State of Georgia didn't start requiring death certificates until 1919. > There are some exceptions. To see these and how to search in GA visit the > GA Archives webpage at http://www.sos.state.ga.us/archives/rs/dfhg.htm > > Karen > (still looking for Kingsley & Tolar families) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Regina Marie Henderson" <rmh9@alltel.net> > To: <GATHOMAS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:22 PM > Subject: [GATHOMAS] Death Records > > > > Can someone please tell me if it is possible to obtain a death record from > 1911 > > in Thomas County. If so can you please supple directions. > > Thank you > > > > > > ==== GATHOMAS Mailing List ==== > Write to us with questions, comment or suggestions! > Thomas County Coordinator is Kimberly Ryan Gandy, GenealogyGeorgia@aol.com > GATHOMAS-L List Administrator is Jennifer, jennifer@fdn.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams, Dekle, Miller, Mims, Westfaul Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/0d.2ADE/1347.1.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Ed, Thank you so much! Would you ask Mr. Carl Williams if he knows who Mr. Joe's parents were? (Trying to find relatives of my gggrandfather, Thomas Williams m. Sophia Dekle.) Know that Sidney Williams, one of their sons was a member there at Liberty Baptist. Hope the old Williams place might be where they lived. Would love to see the church and the Grooverville area - trying to talk my son into going there with me. It's about a 5 hour drive from here in NE FL, but would be well worth the trip. So good that you all are working to save the church! Please keep me posted on how that goes. Thanks again for the help - appreciate it so much! Sylvia

The State of Georgia didn't start requiring death certificates until 1919. There are some exceptions. To see these and how to search in GA visit the GA Archives webpage at http://www.sos.state.ga.us/archives/rs/dfhg.htm Karen (still looking for Kingsley & Tolar families) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Regina Marie Henderson" <rmh9@alltel.net> To: <GATHOMAS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:22 PM Subject: [GATHOMAS] Death Records > Can someone please tell me if it is possible to obtain a death record from 1911 > in Thomas County. If so can you please supple directions. > Thank you >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/0d.2ADE/1347.1.1.2 Message Board Post: On 6 Dec, I attended a meeting of about 25 former members of Liberty Baptist Church, at the church in Groovewrville. Carl Williams, grand-son of the Mr. Joe Williams that I knew. Carl told me that the old Williams place, now known as the Oscar Cook place, is on old US 84, the Boston-Quitman Road, about three miles east of Boston. It is a large old home, on the south side of he road and is easily recognized by the rather sharpe curve to the left. Carl said his grand-father, Mr. Joe, sold the place to the Cooks and moved to Boston. The meeting I attended will lead to more, as its purpose was to try to find a wy to preserve thr Liberty Church building. If you have not seen it, it is well worth the trip. Frame, very wide pine lumber, built by slaves,in the 1850s, had slave members, with a special front door and a balcony for them, and the spoecial sight is the four huge columns that support the gable roof in front. It is, I believe, a one of a kind. ! I will be attending these meetings from time to time and if you need more info, I will ask at those meetings. Ed King

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: MONCRIEF Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/0d.2ADE/222.356.753.1.1.1.2.1.1 Message Board Post: I have not had much time for research, but, thought I would start with the latest and work backwards. Hope to get to the others soon, but, it may be after January 1. 1930 Census of Thomas Co. Ga. 215 Inner Boulevard (Boarding House) 445/454 Miller, Eddie L., head, m, 31, married first at age 18, Ga, Ga,Ga Lola M., wife, f, 27, married first at age 17, Ga, Ga, Ga Williams, Clarence, stepson, m, 9, Florida, Ga, Ga Williams, John L., stepson, m, 8, Fla, Ga, Ga Martin, Gaston, boarder, m, 28, divorced, Ga, Ga, Ga Moncrieff, Charles R., boarder, m, 18, single, Ga, Ga,Ga Moncrieff, Estella, boarder, f, 19, single, Ga, Ga, Ga This entire household is white. 412 Jackson St. 502/515 Moncrief, Arca [?] S., head, m, 38, married first at age 21 Claude, wife, f, 38, married first at age 21 Arca S. Jr, son, m, 16 Jack B., son, m, 12 Ina F., daughter, f, 8 7/12 Javrier, John B., brother-in-law, m, 24 This entire household is white, born in Georgia, both parents born in Georgia.