>snip >What's the difference between someone doing a lookup for you from a book >they have in their personal library, looking up a fact or story from a >library book at the public library, and sending it to someone to use in >their personal family genealogy or history? Is there a difference between >me looking the information up in a book on a bookshelf and copying the >information down, and what Nancy was doing for us? Since the information >comes from public records anyway, and she is not plaguerizing the >published material by using it as her own, word for word, is she really >violating the copyright? snip Copying for personal non profit use is generally permitted by the copyright owner. This would be copying a page out of a book in a library or at a newspaper office copying the obituary., sharing that with one person via email or talk etc is accepted as something that will happen. Where copyright owners get sensitive is taking their value added work, information extracted from public records or newspapers and published, and sharing in broad brush format such as mailing lists, and bulletin boards. The difference between you copying a piece of information for you personal use and sharing information on a mailing list or a bulletin board both for non profit is scale of use and who owns the information in the book. Public records are public, but someone's transcription of a public record belongs to the transcriber. Is that any clearer? I have seen statement in books in libraries which say that copying of these contents for any use is not permitted, others which state copying for personal non profit use is allowed. Sticky subject. Deborah Byrd

The new catalog from Southern Historical Press, Inc., P. O. Box 1267, Greenville, SC 29602-1267, lists a copy for $40. S&H for first book is $3.50. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Joyce Feazell" <jfeazell@datasys.net> To: <GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [GASCREVE] Book > But Huxford does not have that one, not even in the library. I sent an email > and asked. > Joyce > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Judy V. Mason" <2jv@bellsouth.net> > To: <GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:53 AM > Subject: [GASCREVE] Book > > > > i believe that the Huxford Society has a web site that lists all available > > books. > > Judy Mason

Thank's, Judy, I believe that you are correct, and now that the subject has truly surfaced, it is a very good idea that anyone who wishes to exchange their researched information on line, go to the site you've mentioned and read up on this and other related issues. That way everyone will have the chance to be informed about such, as Deborah put it: 'sticky' stuff .... (although it is still possible that not everyone will come away with the same conclusions). But at least we will have tried. Take care, Cyndi Kinkel RpKSaiL6@aol.com

We cannot copyright old journals, records or documents. We can copyright our own format of presentation (which means that cannot be copied and sent as a gift, but CAN be transcribed and sent, just as she was doing. Books full of documents in their entirity would be copyrighted for the transcribed versions and format. The book itself could not be legally copied, but could be re-transcribed and sent. Abstracts are another story. They ARE copyrightable. An abstract is what we do ourselves to place the important parts and names and dates of wills, deeds, etc. There is more, but I would suggest that anyone who wants to know more go to the following site of the Library of Congress, where copyrights are made. Judy Canant http://lcweb.loc.gov/ Click on the spot that says "copyright office" When you are through with that, save the site. You will find gobs of wonderful information and history there. In a message dated 9/20/00 8:29:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SMartin583@aol.com writes: << Subj: [GASCREVE] Question on "copyright" Date: 9/20/00 8:29:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: SMartin583@aol.com Reply-to: GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com To: GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com I got to thinking about Nancy Anglin's message and the other (which I do not have at hand) that chastized listers for "publishing" copyrighted information on the List. Just a Question, so don't go getting out the heavy armor and big guns!!! What's the difference between someone doing a lookup for you from a book they have in their personal library, looking up a fact or story from a library book at the public library, and sending it to someone to use in their personal family genealogy or history? Is there a difference between me looking the information up in a book on a bookshelf and copying the information down, and what Nancy was doing for us? Since the information comes from public records anyway, and she is not plaguerizing the published material by using it as her own, word for word, is she really violating the copyright? >>

are that public records, including those found in county records, are available to everyone. Therefore, anyone should be able to exchange the info with others. As long as one is also sharing from where the records are referenced. Copyrights should apply to "original works" only. This is why many publications state "compiled by." An example is that of cemetery records. Anyone can survey a public cemetery! But when it is published one uses the term "compiled by." Genealogists usually share all possible information, copyrighted or not, and most of the time these "published" items are really taken from public records. It is another story when one uses a reference written in full by a historian who presents his material in his original words( or opinions. ) For even then the references and resources are usually given.. Today, too many are making claim to their "Copyright interests." this is as far as I am concerned, the attempt to become published or famous." And nothing more. For all of these ancient records, statics, newpaper articles and such are still a matter of public record. Yes, there are exceptions to my statements, when one has actually uncoverd NEW material, or presented a new view on a subject. Or perhaps researched and presented a genealogy that has never been published before. A rarety, these days. I find that simply giving a fellow researcher or contact credit for providing the resource is a nice thing to do, and elimates the worry of things. Perhaps I am incorrect in my statements, but feel that too much of "this belongs to me" is going on all over the internet!! Can we not share with one another, and just be certain fo site our resources to others? The bottom line here is that all of us find our roots, and back up our statements or research. Judy in Georgia...

I got to thinking about Nancy Anglin's message and the other (which I do not have at hand) that chastized listers for "publishing" copyrighted information on the List. Just a Question, so don't go getting out the heavy armor and big guns!!! What's the difference between someone doing a lookup for you from a book they have in their personal library, looking up a fact or story from a library book at the public library, and sending it to someone to use in their personal family genealogy or history? Is there a difference between me looking the information up in a book on a bookshelf and copying the information down, and what Nancy was doing for us? Since the information comes from public records anyway, and she is not plaguerizing the published material by using it as her own, word for word, is she really violating the copyright? I personally appreciate the help she gave me because I only have one bit of a line (a marriage) in Georgia, the wife was a Georgia girl, and the menfolk were "just passing through". So I don't get around Georgia libraries very often and certainly not the B.A.S. counties.

There is an Israel Bird 1738 - 1802 in one or two of Huxfords Pioneers of wiregrass Ga I think the first profile was in Vol 4. Huxfords is 75% of the time correct. I didn't keep any closer look since my family didn't meander through GA. Deborah Byrd At 09:59 AM 9/19/00, you wrote: >Regarding my question of yesterday about the will of Israel BIRD. > >I rechecked the website and the posting below refers to "Israel Bird d:1802, >Georgia" according to a posting on the site. > >Hopefully someone has a copy of this will and will confirm Israel and Anna >STAFFORD BIRD had more than three (3) children. Please contact me if have >information on the family of Israel and Anna BIRD, as it is my brick wall. >jmm1682@worldnet.aat.net > >Maureen >-------------- > > Does anyone know if the information below refers to the will of Israel >BIRD > > 1738-1802 or one of his descendant? The following is information from a > > website posting: > > "The will of Israel Bird in the Screven Co., Ga library states that he had > > five named sons and three unnamed daughters.Does anyone know the names of > > the three daughters." > > > > If anyone lives near the library in Screven County I would really >appreciate > > a copy of this will of Israel BIRD. I am extremely interested in the names > > of the "five named sons". > > > > I'd also appreciate any additional information on Ann BIRD. > > > > Maureen in CA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >============================== >Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more: >Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at >http://resources.rootsweb.com/

I won't kick anyone off for expressing an opinon. An obituary is public domain if it is not in a copyrighted paper, or being pulled from a compilation that someone else as prepared for publication in a book format. When public domain records are extracted and compiled in a book format, the information in that book is copyrighted. The person having done the extraction and compliation has provided a value added service by providing the information in that format. The work is then protected. That is how Huxford genealogical society and Huxford heirs are able to maintain the copyrights on the obituary and marriage records he extracted from the newspapers during his lifetime. Or Brent Holcomb or Carolina Moore or any of the other researchers of public records who publish extracts of the records can coyright their efforts. If a person went to the original records and pull the information out for themselves and share that information, it is copyrighted to the researcher. That person is sharing their work time and research. Taken broadly, any message that a person posts on the various boards is their information and under their copyright. In an Ideal world we would all check with the original sender before forwarding a message to another board or person. Deborah Byrd

THANKS SO MUCH FOR LOOKING FOR Joseph HAND. Jean

Sorry I did not finish. I am ashame to say how bad I abused that little rose bush, The Rose Bush is now growing in my yard, It struggled so hard to live, that I will always take care of it and pass it on to those who will do the same. When I sell my house, the Rose Bush will be one of the first things I move with me. Dot

Hi, My Grandmother's rose bush (she referred to as Seven Sisters) started from a little stem I took from the old Home place 40 years after her death, It has been in several places in my yard and would take over the area, it was cut back, dug up, replanted, dug up again, again it came back, then dug up again and left lying in a planter for 3 summers with only a little dirt (my excuse for not taking care of it was, I was busy working and did not have the time.) Well I found and took the time to plant the Rose

Ms Boyd, Being new to the list, I don't know the name of the list manager, but judging by your comments, it must be you. My comments are being addressed to the list, because I feel that the other members are entitled to hear my response and then you can "kick me off of your list". First my comment was not "flaming" and I was not screaming, had I been you would have known. Copyright laws are pretty clear, however, it has been brought to my attention, by another researcher that items (marriages and obituaries) published in newspapers are not copyrighted. About this I could be wrong, and will concede, my ignorance if it isn't true. I thought that the purpose of the Lists is to exchange genealogical data. When any of us post data to the List we are simply exchanging information to help each other in our research. There will always be unscrupulous people who plagarize other peoples research for profit, copyright or not. The volunteers who put forth their efforts to help researchers should be applauded, not pulled down. They are simply posting data, that they have researched, that any of us can obtain from Public Libraries, and as long as the source of that data is provided, what possible laws can be broken, if it comes from a newspaper. Now you can kick me off of your list. UNSUBSCRIBE. Sherry Jones

Regarding my question of yesterday about the will of Israel BIRD. I rechecked the website and the posting below refers to "Israel Bird d:1802, Georgia" according to a posting on the site. Hopefully someone has a copy of this will and will confirm Israel and Anna STAFFORD BIRD had more than three (3) children. Please contact me if have information on the family of Israel and Anna BIRD, as it is my brick wall. jmm1682@worldnet.aat.net Maureen -------------- > Does anyone know if the information below refers to the will of Israel BIRD > 1738-1802 or one of his descendant? The following is information from a > website posting: > "The will of Israel Bird in the Screven Co., Ga library states that he had > five named sons and three unnamed daughters.Does anyone know the names of > the three daughters." > > If anyone lives near the library in Screven County I would really appreciate > a copy of this will of Israel BIRD. I am extremely interested in the names > of the "five named sons". > > I'd also appreciate any additional information on Ann BIRD. > > Maureen in CA > > > > > > >

The publication, "Cemetary Records of Screven County, Georgia....vol 1" compiled by Brier Creek Chapter DAR, copyright '81, lists Black Creek Church Cemetery. There is no Hand listed. The only Hand indexed in the publication is: Mary L. Hand, born Apr. 16, 1868; died Mar. 19, 1902, buried in the Sylvania Cemetery. ----- Original Message ----- From: <GENJEANH@aol.com> To: <GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [GASCREVE] BIRD > Does anyone know anything about Black Creek Church in Screven County? I am > trying to find out where Joseph W. Hand is buried. He died in 1917. All help > appreciated. > Thanks > > > ============================== > Personalized Mailing Lists: never miss a connection again. > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ > Brought to you by RootsWeb.com. >

Before a flame war gets started, I'll nip it in the bud. As I have been so gently reminded that copyrights exist to protect the work of others. It is not sour grapes. General rules which define what is sharing information and infringing on copyrights are: 1) is it for personal use? 2) are you sharing it broadly and systematically with more than one or two persons at a time? 3) Are you systematically making large parts of a copyrighted item freely available to others? 4) Uploading all or part of an item to an electronic bulletin board? 5) Making the results of blanket searches of an item freely and broadly available? I get a little touchy about these things, because of the web pages. I will also admit that I haven't been tracking the traffic on the mailing list too much. And so allowed the postings to go on too long. I apologize for that. I know on a couple of other lists that broad postings have and continue to occur. The person posting on one list has the permission of the copyright owner to publish the information. The other the copyright has not been renewed and is expired. Rootsweb and its bulletin boards must be very attentive to copyright violations, if it doesn't want to get slapped by others for violating copyrights while maintaining its contents are copyrighted and not available for pouching. One organization is going about wholesale pouching of rootsweb contents and genweb published information. Rootsweb contents are copyrighted by the owners of the sites and this information is showing up on a pay for use front end as the front end's proprietary information. This company is using links to tie to genweb and rootsweb pages and presenting the information as their own research. Scream at me, not on the list. Deborah Byrd

But Huxford does not have that one, not even in the library. I sent an email and asked. Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy V. Mason" <2jv@bellsouth.net> To: <GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:53 AM Subject: [GASCREVE] Book > i believe that the Huxford Society has a web site that lists all available > books. > Judy Mason > > > ============================== > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ >

Does anyone know anything about Black Creek Church in Screven County? I am trying to find out where Joseph W. Hand is buried. He died in 1917. All help appreciated. Thanks

Nancy, Thank you so much for the Bird information that you provided on GA-Roots list. I'm sure there are folks, like me, who would appreciate the information being provided on the Screven County List. Thank you too for your hard work, as a volunteer, in providing genie data that some of us, without your help, would not have access to and "many" of us are grateful. Keep up the good work, Sherry

The web site for the Huxford Genealogical Society is www.huxford.com. This gives the information on how to contact them. A section consisting of the books, census materials and other misc. items for sale is listed. Hope this helps everyone. Regards, Robert Bazemore

i believe that the Huxford Society has a web site that lists all available books. Judy Mason