Dennis, it appears that you and I are discussing different areas, so to speak. You asked: Have you purchased lots at a Catholic cemetery? You'll be asked seemingly routine questions about your backkground, marriage, and parish. All of this information is verified by the proper clerics before the deal is finalized. No, I haven't purchased any lots at a Catholic cemetery. You seem to be talking about practices in the United States. I admit that I know nothing about burials in the US. When I disagreed with you on the issue regarding the record in question I was talking about Poland which is where the record originated. All information I provided is based on practices in Poland not the US. Catholics and non-Catholics are buried next to each other in cemeteries in Poland, regardless of their church affiliation. It's true that priests are reluctant to provide Catholic burial ceremonies to people who are not "in good standing" (a proof of "good standing" these days is a notation in a parish register that a person welcomed a priest in his/her home for "koleda" - an annual priest's visit after Christmas). But they do it nevertheless and no proof of baptism or any other sacrament is required. That I actually know from experience :) Cheers, Ola On 6 Aug 2009 at 15:43, Dennis Benarz wrote: > > > Ola wrote: > > "I don't have any proof of this so I might be wrong but I haven't heard of a > practice of confirmation of baptism before burial." > > Dennis responds: > > It is common and done all the time. In fact, baptism a requirement. Catholic > cemeteries are intended for use only by Catholics and, in some cases, by > their properly baptized non-Catholic family members. About the only > exception that comes to mind is in the cases of fetuses and stillborns of > Catholic parents. Although these individuals have had no opportunity for > baptism, their remains are nonetheless eligible for Christian burial at a > Catholic cemetery. Today, some Catholic cemeteries set aside a section > specifically for the "Holy Innocents". > > The process of determining eligility for burial at a Catholic cemetery is > often veiled because many times it is routinely done in far advance of the > actual interrment. Have you purchased lots at a Catholic cemetery? You'll be > asked seemingly routine questions about your backkground, marriage, and > parish. All of this information is verified by the proper clerics before the > deal is finalized. The process weeds out a number of folks who have lived > their lives outside of the wisdom and teachings of Mother Church and still > want to the privilege of burial in a Catholic cemetery. Alas, sinners, you > can't have it both ways. Repent! > > Pax et bonum, > > Dennis > > > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Bob and Sharon! Surname CZEKAJ: It is certainly possible that your great-grandfather came from the Tarnow area. Of the 7328 CZEKAJs living in Poland in 1990, the greatest concentration (1318) lived around Krakow and the fourth largest concentration (391) lived around Tarnow. Alas, Poznan is far away from SE Poland so I wouldn't expect the Poznan marriage project to be of much or any help. As far as I am aware, no similar database exists for the Tarnow area. This means you'll have to roll up your sleeves and begin researching old parish records in North America to uncover the precise place name of his home village. Start with the parish at which your g-grandfather first lived or married in North America. Surname CIUKAJ: Tarnow is the probably the best place to find CIUCAJs in Poland. Of the 263 CIUKAJs living in Poland in 1990, the greatest concentration (86) lived around Tarnow. Could the two surnames be related? Possibly, but I don't think so. CZEKAJ probably stems from "czekac" meaning "to wait" while CIUKAJ probably stems from "ciukac" meaning "to point out errors". Two different roots words, two different surnames. However, if you have an ancestor who liked to wait and then point out errors, then it might be true. Never say never. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Galitz" <shaz17634@gmail.com> To: <galicia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [GALICIA] Czekaj > In the church baptism records you will find Nicholas which seems to be > Latin > for Mikolaj. My grandfather was Mikolaj, but went by Nick in Chicago. > > I have living Ciukaj [sounds pretty similar to me] cousins living in the > Tarnow area today (the town is Niedomice). > > There is a database similar to the Poznan marriage project, but I don't > know > the address. I think maybe I saw it on the Home page of the Poznan > project??? > > Cheers, > > Sharon in AZ > > Good luck in your research > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Bob Ferro <Stabia@verizon.net> wrote: > >> >> >> I am trying to find the town my great-grandfather came from. I was told >> he >> came >> >From the Galicia area. My uncle always told me he came from Tarnow or >> >some >> town >> Like that. I have done research of different towns in the area and I have >> found >> The Czekaj name but to no avail. His name was Mikolaj Czekaj and born >> around >> 1865. I think Mikolaj translates to Nicholas but in city directories his >> name is >> Michael Czekaj. I tried everything to find the town but nothing. Does >> anyone >> Know of a database (similar to The Poznan Project) that I can search? I >> found my >> Other ggf and ggm marriage on the Poznan database. Any info that can >> point >> me in >> The right direction would be great. There's too many small towns with >> their >> own >> Records to keep spot searching. >> >> >> Thank You, >> >> Bob Ferro >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: >> 08/06/09 >> 05:57:00 >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Dennis, I didn't mean to offend you by disagreeing with your scenario, I'm sorry. If the notation on the margin included a date and a place name, then I definitely agree with you that it was made after communication from another parish. I just think that it was more likely that a death certificate, not a request for baptism confirmation, was sent to the parish after the person died and was already buried. I don't know if this is a "better" scenario but I think it's more likely and that's one I came up with in my original message. If the notation included only a date, most likely the person died in the parish where they were baptized. You mentioned little books signed by confessor as a proof of "good standing" for subsequent sacraments. In Poland a person is allowed subsequent sacraments based on his/her ability to provide a baptismal certificate with notations of receiving previous sacraments. Such baptismal certificate must be less than 3 months old. That's why notifications of all sacraments are being sent to the "baptizing" parish after those sacraments are administered. Proof of baptism is not required for burial. Best regards, Ola Heska On 6 Aug 2009 at 14:47, Dennis Benarz wrote: > Hi Ola > > Well, I only intended to create a likely scenario. Sure there might have > been another reason, but only some communication from another parish, > cleric, or church official would have resulted in the annotation. It had to > be something. Come up with a better scenario and we'll examine it, too. > > Back in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, pastors and assistant priests > were much more demanding of their parishioners than they are today. For > example, little books, when signed by a confessor, proved that a parishioner > had completed his/her Easter duty and thus was in "good standing" for any > subsequent sacraments. That's something of a simplification but these little > books existed well into the late 1930s and early 1940s in Chicago's Polish > parishes. > > The Christian burial scenario that I proposed was one that is based in fact. > The pastor of Saint James Parish here in Chicago created an uproar in our > Czech community in 1876 because he refused to allow the burial of Maria > Silhanek in the consecrated soil of Saint Adalbert Catholic Cemetery. Her > sin: she was not "in good standing" in the parish. The uproar resulted in > the founding of Bohemian National Cemetery, a nondenominational burial > place. > > And besides, it's not hard to imagine an exchange of telegrams between the > USA and Poland in 1922. > > Most Catholic priests have "lightened up" a lot regarding their parishioners > in the last 100 years, taking to heart Pope John XXIII's admonishment that > "God is love". But in Poland, you'll still find suicides buried within but > near the outside fence of the parish cemeteries. > > It could have been any number of things but it could have been this one > thing as well. > > Cheers! > > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ola@hwwd.com> > To: <galicia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [GALICIA] Parish Register Date Entry > > > > Dennis, > > > > I'm not sure I agree with your statement that "the priest was probably > > asked > > to confirm that the individual had been duly baptized so that he/she could > > be > > buried in consecrated soil". > > > > I don't have any proof of this so I might be wrong but I haven't heard of > > a > > practice of confirmation of baptism before burial. I have seen a lot of > > death > > notations and I just don't think that they were a result of such request. > > Sometimes deaths occurred in distant parishes, even overseas and, > > considering that burial usually took place just a day or two after the > > death, I > > don't think there even would be enough time to complete the paperwork. > > > > At the moment I can't find any references to required record keeping in > > the > > Catholic church in the 19th century but I think that, just like today, > > back then > > information on marriages and deaths/burials was supposed to be sent back > > to the parish where a person was baptized. As we see from our research, > > most priests did not follow this practice but I have seen death > > certificates > > attached to the back of a parish death registry book. Those certificates > > were sent from the parish where a person died to the parish where he/she > > was baptized. > > > > I think this is simply the case of such information flow and not the case > > of > > making sure a person was baptized before he/she could be buried. > > > > Ola Heska > > > > > > > > > > On 6 Aug 2009 at 7:02, Dennis Benarz wrote: > > > >> Hi Tom > >> > >> In Poland, you'll find that something like an asterisk or star preceding > >> a > >> date signifies birth and a cross preceding a date signifies death. This > >> "Polish shorthand" is also apparent on many grave markers. > >> > >> Here's an image of the plaque on the mausoleum of the noble Joblonowski > >> Family of the Przyborow Estate in our ancestral parish cemetery. It > >> illustrates use of the symbols. See: > >> http://spuscizna.org/imagess/lg-wiz-r4-12.jpg . > >> > >> "22/II 1922" is indeed a date. In the customary European fashion, it is > >> the > >> day, month, and year. In this case, It's the 22nd day of February 1922 > >> or, > >> more simply, 22 February 1922. > >> > >> As the parish priest would receive requests for confirmation of various > >> sacramental issues on a former parishioner, he would often write down > >> new > >> information that he garnered from the request.. In this particular case, > >> the > >> priests was probably asked to confirm that the individual had been duly > >> baptized so that he/she could be buried in consecrated soil. From that > >> request, the priest added the notation of the date of death to the > >> baptismal > >> record that he was viewing. It still happens all the time. > >> > >> It kind of makes you wonder what's noted on your "permanent record", > >> doesn't > >> it? > >> > >> Cheers! > >> > >> Dennis > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Tom Malek" <tsmalek@post.harvard.edu> > >> To: "GALICIA" <galicia@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:00 PM > >> Subject: [GALICIA] Parish Register Date Entry > >> > >> > >> Have been transcribing some parish birth/baptismal information from a > >> FHL microfilm for Ruda, Mielec, Poland. The register entries are in > >> Latin and one of the entries has a notation made at a later date which > >> may have been the date of death. The subsequent notation is: > >> +23/II 1922 > >> My guess is that the II represents a month, but which one? Does II stand > >> for the second month (February)? Or is II a shorthand for VII > >> (September)? Or does it represent something else? > >> Has anyone else come across this? > >> Tom > >> > >> ********************************* > >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > >> GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes > >> in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> ********************************* > >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > >> GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ********************************* > > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am trying to find the town my great-grandfather came from. I was told he came >From the Galicia area. My uncle always told me he came from Tarnow or some town Like that. I have done research of different towns in the area and I have found The Czekaj name but to no avail. His name was Mikolaj Czekaj and born around 1865. I think Mikolaj translates to Nicholas but in city directories his name is Michael Czekaj. I tried everything to find the town but nothing. Does anyone Know of a database (similar to The Poznan Project) that I can search? I found my Other ggf and ggm marriage on the Poznan database. Any info that can point me in The right direction would be great. There's too many small towns with their own Records to keep spot searching. Thank You, Bob Ferro ____________________________________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09 05:57:00

Ola wrote: "I don't have any proof of this so I might be wrong but I haven't heard of a practice of confirmation of baptism before burial." Dennis responds: It is common and done all the time. In fact, baptism a requirement. Catholic cemeteries are intended for use only by Catholics and, in some cases, by their properly baptized non-Catholic family members. About the only exception that comes to mind is in the cases of fetuses and stillborns of Catholic parents. Although these individuals have had no opportunity for baptism, their remains are nonetheless eligible for Christian burial at a Catholic cemetery. Today, some Catholic cemeteries set aside a section specifically for the "Holy Innocents". The process of determining eligility for burial at a Catholic cemetery is often veiled because many times it is routinely done in far advance of the actual interrment. Have you purchased lots at a Catholic cemetery? You'll be asked seemingly routine questions about your backkground, marriage, and parish. All of this information is verified by the proper clerics before the deal is finalized. The process weeds out a number of folks who have lived their lives outside of the wisdom and teachings of Mother Church and still want to the privilege of burial in a Catholic cemetery. Alas, sinners, you can't have it both ways. Repent! Pax et bonum, Dennis

In the church baptism records you will find Nicholas which seems to be Latin for Mikolaj. My grandfather was Mikolaj, but went by Nick in Chicago. I have living Ciukaj [sounds pretty similar to me] cousins living in the Tarnow area today (the town is Niedomice). There is a database similar to the Poznan marriage project, but I don't know the address. I think maybe I saw it on the Home page of the Poznan project??? Cheers, Sharon in AZ Good luck in your research On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Bob Ferro <Stabia@verizon.net> wrote: > > > I am trying to find the town my great-grandfather came from. I was told he > came > >From the Galicia area. My uncle always told me he came from Tarnow or some > town > Like that. I have done research of different towns in the area and I have > found > The Czekaj name but to no avail. His name was Mikolaj Czekaj and born > around > 1865. I think Mikolaj translates to Nicholas but in city directories his > name is > Michael Czekaj. I tried everything to find the town but nothing. Does > anyone > Know of a database (similar to The Poznan Project) that I can search? I > found my > Other ggf and ggm marriage on the Poznan database. Any info that can point > me in > The right direction would be great. There's too many small towns with their > own > Records to keep spot searching. > > > Thank You, > > Bob Ferro > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09 > 05:57:00 > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Ola Well, I only intended to create a likely scenario. Sure there might have been another reason, but only some communication from another parish, cleric, or church official would have resulted in the annotation. It had to be something. Come up with a better scenario and we'll examine it, too. Back in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, pastors and assistant priests were much more demanding of their parishioners than they are today. For example, little books, when signed by a confessor, proved that a parishioner had completed his/her Easter duty and thus was in "good standing" for any subsequent sacraments. That's something of a simplification but these little books existed well into the late 1930s and early 1940s in Chicago's Polish parishes. The Christian burial scenario that I proposed was one that is based in fact. The pastor of Saint James Parish here in Chicago created an uproar in our Czech community in 1876 because he refused to allow the burial of Maria Silhanek in the consecrated soil of Saint Adalbert Catholic Cemetery. Her sin: she was not "in good standing" in the parish. The uproar resulted in the founding of Bohemian National Cemetery, a nondenominational burial place. And besides, it's not hard to imagine an exchange of telegrams between the USA and Poland in 1922. Most Catholic priests have "lightened up" a lot regarding their parishioners in the last 100 years, taking to heart Pope John XXIII's admonishment that "God is love". But in Poland, you'll still find suicides buried within but near the outside fence of the parish cemeteries. It could have been any number of things but it could have been this one thing as well. Cheers! Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: <ola@hwwd.com> To: <galicia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [GALICIA] Parish Register Date Entry > Dennis, > > I'm not sure I agree with your statement that "the priest was probably > asked > to confirm that the individual had been duly baptized so that he/she could > be > buried in consecrated soil". > > I don't have any proof of this so I might be wrong but I haven't heard of > a > practice of confirmation of baptism before burial. I have seen a lot of > death > notations and I just don't think that they were a result of such request. > Sometimes deaths occurred in distant parishes, even overseas and, > considering that burial usually took place just a day or two after the > death, I > don't think there even would be enough time to complete the paperwork. > > At the moment I can't find any references to required record keeping in > the > Catholic church in the 19th century but I think that, just like today, > back then > information on marriages and deaths/burials was supposed to be sent back > to the parish where a person was baptized. As we see from our research, > most priests did not follow this practice but I have seen death > certificates > attached to the back of a parish death registry book. Those certificates > were sent from the parish where a person died to the parish where he/she > was baptized. > > I think this is simply the case of such information flow and not the case > of > making sure a person was baptized before he/she could be buried. > > Ola Heska > > > > > On 6 Aug 2009 at 7:02, Dennis Benarz wrote: > >> Hi Tom >> >> In Poland, you'll find that something like an asterisk or star preceding >> a >> date signifies birth and a cross preceding a date signifies death. This >> "Polish shorthand" is also apparent on many grave markers. >> >> Here's an image of the plaque on the mausoleum of the noble Joblonowski >> Family of the Przyborow Estate in our ancestral parish cemetery. It >> illustrates use of the symbols. See: >> http://spuscizna.org/imagess/lg-wiz-r4-12.jpg . >> >> "22/II 1922" is indeed a date. In the customary European fashion, it is >> the >> day, month, and year. In this case, It's the 22nd day of February 1922 >> or, >> more simply, 22 February 1922. >> >> As the parish priest would receive requests for confirmation of various >> sacramental issues on a former parishioner, he would often write down >> new >> information that he garnered from the request.. In this particular case, >> the >> priests was probably asked to confirm that the individual had been duly >> baptized so that he/she could be buried in consecrated soil. From that >> request, the priest added the notation of the date of death to the >> baptismal >> record that he was viewing. It still happens all the time. >> >> It kind of makes you wonder what's noted on your "permanent record", >> doesn't >> it? >> >> Cheers! >> >> Dennis >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Malek" <tsmalek@post.harvard.edu> >> To: "GALICIA" <galicia@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:00 PM >> Subject: [GALICIA] Parish Register Date Entry >> >> >> Have been transcribing some parish birth/baptismal information from a >> FHL microfilm for Ruda, Mielec, Poland. The register entries are in >> Latin and one of the entries has a notation made at a later date which >> may have been the date of death. The subsequent notation is: >> +23/II 1922 >> My guess is that the II represents a month, but which one? Does II stand >> for the second month (February)? Or is II a shorthand for VII >> (September)? Or does it represent something else? >> Has anyone else come across this? >> Tom >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Don't forget the microfilm from Nowy Sacz! : ) All the way back to 1671, should be a treasure trove for you. Old post: The Mormons microfilmed records from Nowy Sacz. You can find the numbers of the microfilm by using the place search at familysearch.org: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp Nowy Sacz Poland, Kraków, Nowy Sacz Ksiegi metrykalne, 1671-1948 Roman Catholic parish register of baptisms, marriages, and deaths for the parish of Nowy Sacz, Kraków, Poland; formerly Neusandez, Galicia, Austria. You can order these records at your nearest Family History Center: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp Mary Almrauscher wrote: > Yes that is an area I have not gone yet. I guess I will have to go sideways > to go back further. perhaps I can learn more from one of the other children > of Franciszek lesak.. I am in contact with several NEW relatives - i have > never met them. >

Note that the 1910 Census indicates Casimir and Josephine married 7 years, 2nd marriage for Josephine, child Michalina was 14. Census indicates Casimir and Josephine immigration 1904, with Michalina immigration 1905. So, we're looking for immigration of Casimir and Josephine before the 1906 arrival date of Michalina. 1905 arrival at Ellis Island for Josefa Lessak, going to husband Kasimierz in Milwaukee. Josefa travelling from Dabrowska. http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=102362041627 Mary Almrauscher wrote: > Thanks I will have to look at that it probably is a relative as kazimierz, > casimir had a child michalina -wife josephine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Snow" <marysnow@bellsouth.net> > To: <galicia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [GALICIA] Lesak > > > >> There is a ship manifest for Michalina Lesak, arriving at Ellis Island >> at age 10. She was travelling with Maryanna Prus, age 21; last >> residence was Bobowa, Galicia. They were travelling to Michalina's >> uncle and Maryanna's brother-in-law, Kazimierz Lesak in Milwaukee. >> >> http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=102263080328 >> >> >

Yes that is an area I have not fone yet. I guess I will have to go sideways to go back further. perhaps I can learn more from one of the other children of Franciszek lesak.. I am in contact with several NEW relatives - i have never met them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Snow" <marysnow@bellsouth.net> To: <galicia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [GALICIA] new question - correction > It was the 1910 census reporting Austria Polish. Tsk! Check > naturalization papers, WWI draft, as well as death certificate. > > Mary > > Almrauscher wrote: >> Perhaps you can help me with this question... Is nt genealogy fun always >> a >> new mystery. >> OK let me start. >> My grandmothers parents were Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski living >> in >> Novy Sacz. >> They had a rather large family. >> Children of Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski >> Maria, Victoria,Elisabeth,Felix,Franciszek,Casimir,Jan,Karol. >> >> I have found Casimir and his wife Josephine on a cenus report in >> Milwaukee >> where they list themselves as Russian Poles... >> >> > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks I will have to look at that it probably is a relative as kazimierz, casimir had a child michalina -wife josephine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Snow" <marysnow@bellsouth.net> To: <galicia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [GALICIA] Lesak > There is a ship manifest for Michalina Lesak, arriving at Ellis Island > at age 10. She was travelling with Maryanna Prus, age 21; last > residence was Bobowa, Galicia. They were travelling to Michalina's > uncle and Maryanna's brother-in-law, Kazimierz Lesak in Milwaukee. > > http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=102263080328 > > Mary > > Almrauscher wrote: >> Perhaps you can help me with this question... Is nt genealogy fun always >> a >> new mystery. >> OK let me start. >> My grandmothers parents were Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski living >> in >> Novy Sacz. >> They had a rather large family. >> Children of Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski >> Maria, Victoria,Elisabeth,Felix,Franciszek,Casimir,Jan,Karol. >> >> I have found Casimir and his wife Josephine on a cenus report in >> Milwaukee >> where they list themselves as Russian Poles... >> Any ideas? >> >> > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a ship manifest for Michalina Lesak, arriving at Ellis Island at age 10. She was travelling with Maryanna Prus, age 21; last residence was Bobowa, Galicia. They were travelling to Michalina's uncle and Maryanna's brother-in-law, Kazimierz Lesak in Milwaukee. http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=102263080328 Mary Almrauscher wrote: > Perhaps you can help me with this question... Is nt genealogy fun always a > new mystery. > OK let me start. > My grandmothers parents were Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski living in > Novy Sacz. > They had a rather large family. > Children of Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski > Maria, Victoria,Elisabeth,Felix,Franciszek,Casimir,Jan,Karol. > > I have found Casimir and his wife Josephine on a cenus report in Milwaukee > where they list themselves as Russian Poles... > Any ideas? > >

It was the 1910 census reporting Austria Polish. Tsk! Check naturalization papers, WWI draft, as well as death certificate. Mary Almrauscher wrote: > Perhaps you can help me with this question... Is nt genealogy fun always a > new mystery. > OK let me start. > My grandmothers parents were Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski living in > Novy Sacz. > They had a rather large family. > Children of Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski > Maria, Victoria,Elisabeth,Felix,Franciszek,Casimir,Jan,Karol. > > I have found Casimir and his wife Josephine on a cenus report in Milwaukee > where they list themselves as Russian Poles... > >

Calendar date formats: http://linux.about.com/od/emacs_doc/a/emacsdoc96.htm ________ Lavrentiy Krupniak -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [GALICIA] Parish Register Date Entry Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:42:37 -0400 From: Laurence Krupnak <Lkrupnak@erols.com> Organization: ............... East Europe Connection ............... To: galicia@rootsweb.com References: <4A7A4736.5050008@post.harvard.edu> Tom Malek wrote: > > Have been transcribing some parish birth/baptismal information from a > FHL microfilm for Ruda, Mielec, Poland. The register entries are in > Latin and one of the entries has a notation made at a later date which > may have been the date of death. The subsequent notation is: > �23/II 1922 > My guess is that the II represents a month, but which one? Does II stand > for the second month (February)? Or is II a shorthand for VII > (September)? Or does it represent something else? > Has anyone else come across this? > Tom ********* Tom, They used Roman numerals for months ..... January = I, February = II, and so on up to December = XII. ________ Lavrentiy Krupniak

1920 Census lists Casimier, Josephine (2nd marriage), Michalina (daughter of Josephine) as Aust/Polish. Which ever census lists Russian Polish likely error of census enumerator. Mary Almrauscher wrote: > Perhaps you can help me with this question... Is nt genealogy fun always a > new mystery. > OK let me start. > My grandmothers parents were Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski living in > Novy Sacz. > They had a rather large family. > Children of Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski > Maria, Victoria,Elisabeth,Felix,Franciszek,Casimir,Jan,Karol. > > I have found Casimir and his wife Josephine on a cenus report in Milwaukee > where they list themselves as Russian Poles... > Any ideas? > >

Dennis, I'm not sure I agree with your statement that "the priest was probably asked to confirm that the individual had been duly baptized so that he/she could be buried in consecrated soil". I don't have any proof of this so I might be wrong but I haven't heard of a practice of confirmation of baptism before burial. I have seen a lot of death notations and I just don't think that they were a result of such request. Sometimes deaths occurred in distant parishes, even overseas and, considering that burial usually took place just a day or two after the death, I don't think there even would be enough time to complete the paperwork. At the moment I can't find any references to required record keeping in the Catholic church in the 19th century but I think that, just like today, back then information on marriages and deaths/burials was supposed to be sent back to the parish where a person was baptized. As we see from our research, most priests did not follow this practice but I have seen death certificates attached to the back of a parish death registry book. Those certificates were sent from the parish where a person died to the parish where he/she was baptized. I think this is simply the case of such information flow and not the case of making sure a person was baptized before he/she could be buried. Ola Heska On 6 Aug 2009 at 7:02, Dennis Benarz wrote: > Hi Tom > > In Poland, you'll find that something like an asterisk or star preceding a > date signifies birth and a cross preceding a date signifies death. This > "Polish shorthand" is also apparent on many grave markers. > > Here's an image of the plaque on the mausoleum of the noble Joblonowski > Family of the Przyborow Estate in our ancestral parish cemetery. It > illustrates use of the symbols. See: > http://spuscizna.org/imagess/lg-wiz-r4-12.jpg . > > "22/II 1922" is indeed a date. In the customary European fashion, it is the > day, month, and year. In this case, It's the 22nd day of February 1922 or, > more simply, 22 February 1922. > > As the parish priest would receive requests for confirmation of various > sacramental issues on a former parishioner, he would often write down new > information that he garnered from the request.. In this particular case, the > priests was probably asked to confirm that the individual had been duly > baptized so that he/she could be buried in consecrated soil. From that > request, the priest added the notation of the date of death to the baptismal > record that he was viewing. It still happens all the time. > > It kind of makes you wonder what's noted on your "permanent record", doesn't > it? > > Cheers! > > Dennis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Malek" <tsmalek@post.harvard.edu> > To: "GALICIA" <galicia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:00 PM > Subject: [GALICIA] Parish Register Date Entry > > > Have been transcribing some parish birth/baptismal information from a > FHL microfilm for Ruda, Mielec, Poland. The register entries are in > Latin and one of the entries has a notation made at a later date which > may have been the date of death. The subsequent notation is: > +23/II 1922 > My guess is that the II represents a month, but which one? Does II stand > for the second month (February)? Or is II a shorthand for VII > (September)? Or does it represent something else? > Has anyone else come across this? > Tom > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Perhaps you can help me with this question... Is nt genealogy fun always a new mystery. OK let me start. My grandmothers parents were Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski living in Novy Sacz. They had a rather large family. Children of Franciszek Lesak and Maria Dumanski Maria, Victoria,Elisabeth,Felix,Franciszek,Casimir,Jan,Karol. I have found Casimir and his wife Josephine on a cenus report in Milwaukee where they list themselves as Russian Poles... Any ideas?

Hyacinthus is Latin spelling of Greek name Hyakinthos. ________ Lavrentiy Krupniak Helen Ginn wrote: > > Listers: > > Has anyone ever come across the given name Chiacinthus. > > I am reading a marriage document for Wychodow Nizankowice > dating to 1784 and I am not familiar with such a given name. > > Any comments out there? > > Helen Ginn > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at GALICIA-admin@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GALICIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, the Roman numerals are very often used for months, with I standing for January, II for February, III for March, etc all the way to XII for December. It's the simple way to differentiate the day number from the month number and is still widely used in Europe. And, in the European fashion the date format is always day-month-year and is written with the slashes in between day/month/year. As for the annotations in the birth registers - they appear sometimes and are of different nature. Obviously, the most common is the date of death - symbolized by a small cross (+). The other one which is quite common is a marriage date (sometimes with the name of the bride/groom added as well). But, there are others that are even more interesting. Like for example, the extract dates - usually written on the margin in very, very small letters and preceded by letters 'ex' or 'eks' or nothing at all. Those are the dates when someone asked for a transcript of their birth certificate to present to different authorities. They are extremely interesting because one can guess for what purpose those transcripts were acquired just by looking at the dates - a marriage, an entrance to a school/university, a military draft, a job application, passport application, etc. And, thanks to them one can date some events in the life of a person which otherwise would have been undated. The birth registers - but only the original ones in the parishes, not the bishop's copies at the archdiocese archives - contain a wealth of information sometimes well beyond what those registers were meant to be. I found things like the letters of recommendations or of good moral standing issued to the parishioners seeking employment. Or, the notes about emigrations, and later about marriages and births of children in far away places sometimes (rarely!) with the foreign certificates attached. ella

Listers: Has anyone ever come across the given name Chiacinthus. I am reading a marriage document for Wychodow Nizankowice dating to 1784 and I am not familiar with such a given name. Any comments out there? Helen Ginn