Margie, We did it and the results surprised me. My research said my DANIEL line was probably out of the Thomas DANIEL the First of IOW County, VA line and it was not. In fact, it really surprised me with its results and it has thrown a lot of DANIEL lines in disarray because these lines were built on the research of others and this mess was all wrong. I guess you might say, my DANIEL bunch were in locations they never should have been located and with no strong links to those folks with whom they are 25/25 marker matches with - descendants of Capt. William DANIEL (1625-1698) family of Middlesex County, VA. I will tell this list the same things I told the DANIEL list -- DNA is the only definitive proof of a family relationship, these days and research not backed up with DNA is useless in my opinion. The problem is folks re-used so many given names in the early Colonial Period a lot of these folks have been assigned, incorrectly. I do not think these errors occurred in later periods (AFT 1850) but early (before 1800). Once you go down the wrong road, it is hard to get back on track, as we have all found out. I am not saying these folks that wrote these family histories did not do the best they could with the information they had in hand, they did, but there is only so much you can do with primary source information and a lot of what you do in your research is a "guess, at best." DNA takes the guesswork out of it by showing you, exactly, who you are related to. I also believe that only 25/25 marker matches should be even looked at as family in the Colonial American timeframe. I know that others will say that "one or two markers off are still family" and they are correct but they do not say "when you shared a common ancestor" and that is what you want to know. Statistically, with a 25/25 marker match to an identical surname means you have a 90% chance of sharing a common ancestor in the Colonial American time frame (14.4 generations) with someone's whose DNA matches, perfectly, that of your line. Any match less than 25/25 means you probably shared a MRCA (most recent common ancestor) before the Colonial American time frame. One marker off means you probably shared a MRCA in the 12th century and 2 markers off means you probably shared a MRCA in the Dark Ages. The actual figures used by FamilyTreeDNA is a 25/25 marker match means you have a 50% probability to share a MRCA in the past seven generations. However, statisticians will not even look at probabilities less than 90% to establish relationships, which is why I used this figure - 14.4 generations. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie King" <heyred@knology.net> To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna >I would like to talk with someone that had done the DNA just to see if what > results they get. Do you know if anyone is doing DNA on the HADDEN > family? > Margie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:10 PM > Subject: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna > > >> John, >> Its real easy to conduct a "Y" DNA test. This is a test for males, >> only, and is especially beneficial for families trying to track their > family >> name to see if it matches another person from the same family. >> >> In case you did not know, the male "Y" chromosome is passed from > father >> to son, unchanged. So, a male's "Y" chromosome is the same as his > paternal >> father, grandfather, GGF and all the way back in his paternal male line. >> This being the case, you can use it to find other families of your same > name >> that are related to you. >> >> In my case, my "Y" goes all the way back to my 3rd GGF, Frederick >> Carl >> Wilhelm RICHTER (ABT 1750-AFT 1799) of Reichenbach, Liegnitz, Schlesien, >> Prussia >> >> To take this test go to... >> Go to http://www.familytreedna.com/ >> >> Search for the DNA Project for the name of a project covering the surname >> you want. In this case, PARKER. I already have done it for your, so >> here >> is the link. If someone does not want the name, PARKER, they can search > for >> some other surname project from the opening page of this website: >> >> http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Parker >> >> Contact the person who is running the list (there is a form, provided) >> and >> join their group. The coordinator for the project will send you all the >> details. >> >> Then, you can buy the kit and they will send it to you. All you do > this >> is a mouth swab, according to the instructions in the kit. Then, send it >> back to them for testing. It takes about 2-3 months to get the results >> back. >> >> After you get the results, your Project coordinator should group you >> results on another website and show you who matches whom. Regardless, >> FamilyTreeDNA will have a link to your test kit number and it will show > you >> everybody who matches within 2 markers, the results of your test. >> >> Some say that if you match 23/25 makers you are family but the >> problem >> with this, they do not tell you when you shared a Most Recent Common >> Ancestor (MRCA) and a drift of 2 markers means that MRCA could > have >> been about the time of Christ but I suggest looking at their statistical >> data only after you get your results. >> >> Take for an example our 25/25 marker matches. This tells us we have >> a >> 50% probability of having a MRCA in 7 generation but no statistician >> worth >> his salt would ever consider a 50% probability as meaningful so you >> really >> need to look at the 90% probability curves and that says we probably > shared >> a MRCA in the past 14 generations, which for most of us is about the time > of >> the Colonial American period - 1600. >> >> If you have any drift (23/25 or 24/25) this drift just extends the > time >> frame for which you shared a MRCA. I do not remember the exact 90% >> probability curve for a 24/25 marker match but it was well over 20 >> generations and that puts you back into the Dark Ages before the use of >> surnames were even in use. BTW, surnames came into you sometime in the > 12th >> Century for most Europeans. >> >> I assume you know that you could have a 25/25 marker match with > someone >> named SMITH or even JONES even if your name was PARKER. This just means > you >> descend from a common ancestor who lived in an era before surnames were >> in >> general use (1100 AD). >> >> There are three "Y" DNA tests available for males - a 12 marker, a > 25 >> marker and a new 37 marker. Each one generally costs more than the >> other. >> A 12 marker is about $100, a 25 marker about $200 and a 37 marker about >> $300. If you go in an already established Name Project, the costs are >> generally less than those listed on their website. The prices I quoted >> above are our costs for the DANIEL family project. >> >> Here is my opinion on the three "Y" DNA tests >> >> 1. A 12 marker test -- this is used to prove who you are not related to > as >> opposed to who you are related to. I would not use this test. >> >> 2. A 25 marker test - this is the first reasonable test you should > consider >> because a perfect 25/25 match on this test will tell you that you have a > 50% >> probability of sharing a MRCA within the past 7 generations and this >> means >> in simple terms you have a good chance of having a MRCA in the Colonial >> American Timeframe. >> >> 3. A 37 marker test -- this drops the 50% probability down to five >> generations if you both have a 37/37 match. >> >> BTW, I am a traditionalist. I still believe in BC and AD. <grin> I am >> also going to copy this to several other lists, so I have deleted your >> message to me. >> >> >> John R. Clarke >> Thomasville, GA >> >> >> >> ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== >> NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, > political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal > messages, > flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds > for > removal. 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