Jefferson County GaArchives Obituaries.....Upton, Benjamin November 19 1895 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Beverly Black http://www.rootsweb.com/~archreg/vols/00012.html#0002902 September 28, 2004, 1:02 am Florida Times Nov 20, 1895 DEATH OF BENJAMIN UPTON Florida Times Union Jacksonville, Duval County, Florida Wednesday, November 20, 1895 Page 8, Column 3 Source: Thanks to Kim Peters, Florida for contributing this obituary to researcher Beverly Walden Black One of Duval Countys Oldest Citizens Dies of Congestion. Benjamin Upton, aged 64 years, one of the oldest settlers and best known citizens of Duval County, died at 1 oclock yesterday afternoon at his residence, 520 West Monroe Street, of congestion of the liver. The deceased had been ill only a few days. Mr. Upton was a native of Jefferson County, Georgia, and came to Florida shortly after the Civil War. He has resided in this county during that entire time, principally at Baldwin. He leaves a wife and infant child besides several grown sons and daughters by his first wife. The funeral will take place this morning at 7:45 from the Church of the Immaculate Conception at which the Renulem mass will be celebrated. The body will then be sent to Baldwin for interment in the family cemetery. RESEARCHER NOTES: Benjamin Upton is the son of Asa Upton/Eliza_______ of Jefferson County, Georgia. He married A. M. Upton 18 Nov 1855 in Jefferson County, Georgia d/o Mitchell Walden/Margaret Hannah. In an earlier obituary 1884 for his son in law Milton M Ivey (married Eliza Jane Upton) Benjamin was listed as Mayor of Baldwin. Benjamin and Adaran reared numerous children as follows: Eliza Jane Miranda Upton, born 1857 Sissy Upton born July 16, 1859 Annie L. Upton born April 21, 1861 Emma N. Upton born 1863 Florence M. Upton born May 1, 1865 Jordan A.J. Upton born May 9, 1868 John D. Upton born 1871 Marietta V. Upton born 1872 James Alex Upton born 1875 Jessie Fay Upton born September 28, 1876 At least four of their children died as infants or young adults before marriage. Many are buried with Adaran and Benjamin Upton in their family cemetery plot in Baldwin. Benjamin Upton married 2nd Elizabeth Smith, December 1892 (Adaran died 13 June 1891). The infant child mentioned in obituary is unknown to researcher. USGENWEB ARCHIVES NOTICE: These electronic pages may NOT be reproduced in any format for profit or presentation by any other organization or persons. Persons or organizations desiring to use this material, must obtain the written consent of the contributor, or the legal representative of the submitter, and contact the listed USGenWeb archivist with proof of this consent. The submitter has given permission to the USGenWeb Archives to store the file permanently for free access. http://www.usgenwebarchives.org ******************************************************************************** File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/jefferson/obits/u/nob237upton.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.net/gafiles/ File size: 3.3 Kb
Jefferson County GaArchives Obituaries.....Walden Upton, Adaran Miranda June 13 1891 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Beverly Black http://www.rootsweb.com/~archreg/vols/00012.html#0002902 September 27, 2004, 10:00 pm Florida Times Newspaper June 19, 1890 MEMORIAL OBITUARY OF ADARAN MIRANDA UPTON June 19, 1891 Florida Times Union Jacksonville, Florida Thanks to Kim Peters of Florida, a greater granddaughter of A M Upton for submitting this article to me (Beverly Walden Black) in 2003 IN MEMORIAM A Tribute to the Life and Christian Character of Mrs. A. M. Upton. Died, at Baldwin, Fla., on the 13th day of June, 1891, in the 58th year of her age, Mrs. A. M. Upton, wife of Benjamin Upton. Mrs. Upton, was born in Jefferson county, Ga., where she joined the Methodist church and professed religion in her Lord and Savior early in life. At the age of 22 years she married Mr. Upton and became a devoted and affectionate wife and mother, living a quiet and Christian life. Her health was generally good up to about eight months ago, when her lungs becoming affected, she rapidly failed in health, and for the last three months had been confined to her room, lashed by the unrelenting scourge--consumption. And while she well knew that the dreaded monster must soon claim his victim, yet she opened not her mouth in complaint, but was resigned to her Maker's will, and on nearing death, when she realized that she must soon leave the present and those who were near and dear to her here, being in a most rational condition, she called her husband and those of her children who were near to her bedside, and then, with a smile on her lips and love beaming from her eyes, the windows of a patient soul, she told them that Christ was waiting for her, that she would soon be gone and that she wanted them to remember what she was about to say to them. She then proceeded to admonish them to be good to each other, to live honest, virtuous and Christian lives and to strive to meet her in heaven. After this she said but little, soon breathing her last without a struggle when the unfettered soul winged its way to its abode of rest and joy. Her remains were interred in the silent city near Baldwin, there to await the awakening trump of God, when all must stand before the great white throne to receive of the things done in the body. The funeral services were conducted at the grave by Rev. Mr. Snyder of Jacksonville, Fla. in a beautiful manner. Peaceful be her silent slumber, in the gloomy vault below. Until the resurrection morning, when all in Christ we hope to know. D.J.P. Researchers note: Adaran M. Walden is the second daughter of Mitchell Walden/Margaret Hannah of Jefferson County, Georgia. She married Benjamin Upton in Jefferson County and is found in Lee County, Georgia with her railroad manager husband. Later they are located in Duval County, Florida. Benjamin Upton was mayor of Baldwin, near Jacksonville, Florida. The Upton family cemetery is located in Baldwin, Duval County, Florida. See Florida Genweb Cemeteries for family members buried there. A big thanks to Kim Peters who cleaned the cemetery herself of debris and uncovered the beautiful stones that had been hidden for years. USGENWEB ARCHIVES NOTICE: These electronic pages may NOT be reproduced in any format for profit or presentation by any other organization or persons. Persons or organizations desiring to use this material, must obtain the written consent of the contributor, or the legal representative of the submitter, and contact the listed USGenWeb archivist with proof of this consent. The submitter has given permission to the USGenWeb Archives to store the file permanently for free access. http://www.usgenwebarchives.org ******************************************************************************** ****** File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/jefferson/obits/w/nob236waldenup.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.net/gafiles/ File size: 4.3 Kb
Jefferson-Burke County GaArchives Deed.....Walding, Samuel - Georgia, State Of March 6 1787 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Beverly Black http://www.rootsweb.com/~archreg/vols/00012.html#0002902 September 27, 2004, 9:50 pm Warrent #877 Issued from Burke County, Georgia Written: March 6 1787 Recorded: December 20 1792 Burke County Page 254 Warrant Dated March 1787 Surveyed 6th March 1787 By Samuel McGehee D. S. Certified By Thomas Lewis CS Scale 200 Chs. Per Inch Plat to Samuel Walding 380 Acres Pine Land No. 877 Plat is here Bounds Oliver Martin John Newton Wm. Smith & H. Horns & Saml. Walden & Henry Walden Page 272 STATE OF GEORGIA By His Excellency Edward Telfair Captain General, Governor, and Commander in Chief in and over the said State, and of the Militia thereof. To all to whom these Presents shall come, GREETING: Know Ye, That, in pursuance of the Act for opening the Land office, and by virtue of the powers in me vested, I HAVE given and granted, and by these presents, in the name and behalf of the said state, DO give and grant unto Samuel Walding, his heirs and assigns forever ALL that tract or parcel of land, containing Three hundred and Eighty acres, situate, lying and being in the county of Burke in the said state and butting and bounding North westwardly by Oliver Martins land, North eastwardly by John Newtons and H. Horns land and South westwardly by Samuel Waldings and Henry Waldings land having such shape, form, and marks, as appear by a plat of the same hereunto annexed, together with all and singular the rights, members, and appurtenances thereof, whatsoever to the said tract or parcel of land belonging, or in any way appertaining; and also all the estate, right, title, interest, claim, and demand of the state aforefaid, of, in, to, or out of, the fame: TO HAVE AND TO HOLD the said tract or parcel of land, and all and singular the premises aforefaid, with their and every of their rights, members, and appurtenances, unto the said Samuel Walding his heirs and assigns, to his and their own proper use and bound forever, in Fee Fimple. GIVEN under my hand, and the great seal of the said state, this Nineteenth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and ninety two; and in the seventeenth year of American Independence. Signed by his Excellency the Governor Edward Telfair This 19th day of December, 1792 J. Meriwether SED. Recorded the 20th day of December, 1792. Researchers note: Although grant shown in Burke County, Property later was drawn into the County of Jefferson when it was created in 1796. These documents obtained in September 2003 from the Georgia State Archives by researcher Beverly Walden Black. USGENWEB ARCHIVES NOTICE: These electronic pages may not be reproduced in any format for profit or presentation by any other organization or person. Persons or organizations desiring to use this material, must obtain the written consent of the contributor, or the legal representative of the submitter, and contact the listed USGenWeb archivist with proof of this consent. The submitter has given permission to the USGenWeb Archives to store the file permanently for free access. http://www.usgenwebarchives.org File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/jefferson/deeds/ndd7georgia.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.net/gafiles/ File size: 3.7 Kb
Jefferson-Warren-Richmond County GaArchives Deed.....Waldin, Samuel - Georgia, State Of November 15 1785 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Beverly Black http://www.rootsweb.com/~archreg/vols/00012.html#0002902 September 27, 2004, 5:07 pm Headright Grant #678 Written: November 15 1785 Recorded: November 20 1785 STATE OF GEORGIA GRANT County of Richmond, November 15, 1785 To Samuel Waldin [sic Walden] (Property drawn into Warren County 1793, then Jefferson 1796) Submitted by Beverly Walden Black Source: Georgia State Archives 2003 STATE OF GEORGIA, By the Honourable Samuel Elbert, Esquire, Captain, General, Governor, and Commander in Chief, in and over the said State. To all to whom these presents shall come, GREETING. Know Ye, That, in Pursuance of the Act for opening the Land Office, and by Virtue of the Powers in me vested, I HAVE, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Honourable the Executive Council, given and granted, and, by these Presents, in the Name and Behalf of the said State, DO give and grant unto SAMUEL WALDIN, his Heirs and Assigns forever, ALL that Tract or Parcel of Land, containing two hundred Acres, situate, lying, and being, in the County of RICHMOND in the said State, and butting and bounding: westwardly by Ogeechee River, Southeastwardly by HENRY WALDIN's land and on the other sides by vacant land having such shape, form, and marks, as appear by a Plat of the same hereunto annexed together with all and singular the Rights, Members, and Appurtenances thereof, whatsoever, to the said Tract or Parcel of Land belonging, or in any wife appertaining; and also all the Estate, Right, Title, Interest, Claim, and Demand, of the State aforesaid, of, in, to, or out of, the same; TO HAVE AND TO HOLD the said Tract or Parcel of Land, and all and singular the Premises aforesaid, with their and every of their Rights, Members, and Appurtenances, unto the said SAMUEL WALDIN, his heirs and assigns, to his and their own proper use and behoof forever, in Fee Simple. GIVEN under my Hand in Council, and the Great Seal of the said State, this Fifteenth Day of November in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty Five and in the Tenth Year of American Independence. SIGNED by his Honourable Governor, in Council the 15th Day of November, 1785. Signed S Elbert E Handley CC Registered this 20th day of November 1785 PLAT RICHMOND COUNTY Saml Waldin 200 Acres Swamp Land Ogeechee Boundary Surveyed by Virtue of a Warrant from under the hand of the Honorable Benjamin Few esquire Senior Justice presiding at a Land Court held in said County dated the 21 Day of June 1784 and Executed the 27 August 1784 by Anderson Crawford on his own Headright No. 678 DS Scale of 20 Ch per inch ******************************************************************************* USGENWEB ARCHIVES NOTICE: These electronic pages may NOT be reproduced in any format for profit or presentation by any other organization or persons. Persons or organizations desiring to use this material, must obtain the written consent of the contributor, or the legal representative of the submitter, and contact the listed USGenWeb archivist with proof of this consent. The submitter has given permission to the USGenWeb Archives to store the file permanently for free access. http://www.usgenwebarchives.org ******************************************************************************** File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/jefferson/deeds/ndd6georgia.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.net/gafiles/ File size: 3.9 Kb
Dear Researchers: I am looking for contacts to get copies of old Jefferson County Maps. Last April we visited the Louisville Library we saw several of these. Any contacts would be appreciated. Robert Temples Edmonds, WA
Crawford-Jefferson County GaArchives Biographies.....Walker, Charles H. 1812 - Unknown ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Carla Miles http://www.rootsweb.com/~archreg/vols/00010.html#0002476 September 19, 2004, 8:16 pm Author: Memoirs of Georgia, Vol. I Memoirs of Georgia, Vol. I, Atlanta, Ga. Published by the Atlanta Historical Society in 1895 Pages 570-571 Charles H. Walker, farmer, Roberta, Crawford Co., Ga., son of William and Elizabeth (Bostic) Walker, was born in Jefferson county, Ga., in 1812. Mr. Walkers grandparents, Joel and Judith Walker, were born in Buckingham county, Va., and migrated to Georgia and settled in Jefferson county about the beginning of the present century. Mr. Walkers father was born in Virginia in 1763 and came to Georgia in early life and settled in Jefferson county. He was a soldier in the patriot army and served through the revolutionary war. He was under the command of Gen. John Twiggs, and letters written to him by that officer, now in possession of the subject of this sketch, testify to his courage, faithfulness and fidelity. He was a farmer and lived in Jefferson county until he died in 1818. Mr. Walkers mother was a daughter of Nathan and Martha Bostic. He was a native of what is now Jefferson county and was a farmer. His mother was born in 1770 and died in 1835. Mr. Walker was reared on the farm and received a common school education, and when grown to manhood he taught school one term. Although a plain farmer, Mr. Walker was so popular and influential, and that he was and is held in high esteem is evidenced by his election to office. In 1840 he was elected again in 1880 when sixty-eight years of age. In 1864 he was a member of the Georgia militia, and served in defense of Atlanta. Mr. Walker was married in 1834 to Miss Caroline E. Jones born in Putnam county in 1815 daughter of William and Retensia Jones. He was born in Putnam county and lived in the county all his life. To Mr. and Mrs. Walker ten children have been born, of whom five are living: T.H. was killed at the battle of Sharpsburg; Caroline E., wife of W.H. Ficklin; George E.; Joel A., William J., and Robert W. Mrs. Walker, who was an exemplary member of the Methodist church, died in 1880. Mr. Walker is an honored member of the Methodist church, and no better or stronger proof of the confidence of the people in his integrity and of the estimation in which they hold him could be given than the fact that when last elected to the general assembly 1880 he received every vote cast. Was enlisted in the Georgia militia in 1864 and served around Atlanta with that command. File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/crawford/bios/bs250walker.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.poppet.org/gafiles/ File size: 3.0 Kb
Harris-Jefferson County GaArchives Obituaries.....Seats, Bill October 3 1886 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Carla Miles http://www.rootsweb.com/~archreg/vols/00010.html#0002476 September 15, 2004, 7:07 pm The Marion Patriot, October 29, 1886 The Marion County Patriot, No. 44 Friday, October 29, 1886 Page One Harris County Journal New has reached here of the death at Oldtown, Jefferson County, on the 3rd instant, of Bill Seats, a convict in the penitentiary from this county. File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/harris/obits/s/ob5449seats.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.poppet.org/gafiles/ File size: 0.9 Kb
Jefferson-Richmond County GaArchives Deed.....Walding, Henry - Georgia, State Of December 16 1784 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Beverly Black b_black@eastga.net September 15, 2004, 10:31 pm Headright Grant State of Georgia to Henry Walding Written: December 16 1784 Recorded: December 20 1784 STATE OF GEORGIA GRANT County of Richmond, December 15, 1784 To Henry Walding [sic Walden] (Property drawn into Warren County 1793, then Jefferson 1796) Submitted by Beverly Walden Black Source: Georgia State Archives 2003 STATE OF GEORGIA, By the Honorable John Houston , Esquire, Captain, General, Governor, and Commander in Chief, in and over the said State. To all to whom these presents shall come, GREETING: Know Ye, That, in Pursuance of the Act for opening the Land Office, and by Virtue of the Powers in me vested, I HAVE, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Honorable the Executive Council, given and granted, and, by these Presents, in the Name and Behalf of the said State, DO give and grant unto HENRY WALDING, his Heirs and Assigns forever, ALL that Tract or Parcel of Land, containing two hundred Acres, situate, lying, and being, in the County of RICHMOND in the said State, and butting and bounding: westwardly by Ogeechee River and on all other sides by vacant land having such shape, form, and marks, as appear by a Plat of the same hereunto annexed together with all and singular the Rights, Members, and Appurtenances thereof, whatsoever, to the said Tract or Parcel of Land belonging, or in any wife appertaining; and also all the Estate, Right, Title, Interest, Claim, and Demand, of the State aforesaid, of, in, to, or out of, the same; TO HAVE AND TO HOLD the said Tract or Parcel of Land, and all and singular the Premises aforesaid, with their and every of their Rights, Members, and Appurtenances, unto the said HENRY WALDING, his heirs and assigns, to his and their own proper use and behoof forever, in Fee Simple. GIVEN under my Hand in Council, and the Great Seal of the said State, this Sixteenth Day of December in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty Four. Geo Hundley DCC Registered 20 December 1784 (Plat was not found at Georgia State Archives for this Headright Grant) ******************************************************************************** USGENWEB ARCHIVES NOTICE: These electronic pages may NOT be reproduced in any format for profit or presentation by any other organization or persons. Persons or organizations desiring to use this material, must obtain the written consent of the contributor, or the legal representative of the submitter, and contact the listed USGenWeb archivist with proof of this consent. The submitter has given permission to the USGenWeb Archives to store the file permanently for free access. http://www.usgenwebarchives.org ******************************************************************************** File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/jefferson/deeds/ndd5georgia.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.net/gafiles/ File size: 3.3 Kb
We are trying to locate a living relative of the following Jefferson County men: Blackstock, Paul, race White, born Nov. 7, 1920, AO1, Navy, USN Fleet, killed in action Jan. 11, 1951. Cato, Charlie L., race White, born 1928, PVT, Army, 2nd Inf. Div., killed in action in North Korea Aug. 27, 1951. Gay, Billy E., race White, born 1930, CPL, Army 7th Inf. Div., killed in action in South Korea Feb. 12, 1951. Hammett, Warren Rod, race White, born Nov. 5, 1928, HN, Navy, USN Fleet, killed in action Oct. 1, 1950. Ray, James, race Black, born 1929, PVT, Army, 1st Cav. Div., killed in action in North Korea Nov. 7, 1951. Tally, Matthew, race Black, born 1933, PFC, Army, 1st Cav. Div., killed in action in North Korea May 20, 1951. A memorial for the Korean War will be dedicated in Augusta, Ga., on Nov. 6, 2004. The above men will be honored by it. We would like to invite their relatives to the ceremony. Reply to Clyde Hooks <KoreanWar1950@netscape.net>
Jefferson-Jackson County GaArchives Obituaries.....Short, Bobbie H. July 8 1992 ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: C. E. Bond connie1370@charter.net September 9, 2004, 1:12 am Athens Banner Herald, July 10, 1992 Short, Bobbie H. Bobbie H. Short COMMERCE Bobbie H. Short, 62, of Route 2, died Wednesday, July 8, 1992. A native of Jefferson County, Mrs. Short was a daughter of Lonice Williams Hadden of Avera, Calif. And the late Thomas Clayton Hadden. She was a graduate of Berry College and was a retired County Extension Agent for Banks County. She was a member of First Baptist Church of Grey. Funeral services will be at 11 a.m. Saturday at Mount Olive Baptist Church. The Rev. Carlton Peters and Verlin Reese will officiate and burial will be in Grey Hill Cemetery. The body will be placed in the church at 10:30 a.m. Survivors, in addition to her mother, include her husband, George Short; two daughters, Beverly Short Norris, Commerce, and Kim Short Jordan, Athens; a son Keith Short, Hartwell; a sister, Dean Lucas, Camden, S.C.; and four grandchildren. The family is at the residence and will receive friends at Little-Ward Funeral Home from 7-9 tonight. File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/jefferson/obits/s/gob1843short.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.org/gafiles/ File size: 1.6 Kb
I have been trying to find the maiden name of my gggrandmother Mary McBride. Her youngest child and only son was named Robert Ellis McBride so I have always assumed that maybe her maiden name was Ellis. However, I have never found a marriage record or anything to indicate what her name might have been. Any help would be appreciated. She was married to Thomas A. McBride and they had four children: 3 daughters, Winifred J. McBride married to Andrew McNeely, Sarah W. A. married to James Pate, and I don't remember the other daughter's name. The son, Robert Ellis McBride was married to Katy Tucker.
John, I am going to get back to you on that stuff. There are so many suprises with these Watkins "KIN" Shirley Watkins Sanders
Shirley, I have a WATKINS loosely tied to some of my bunch over there. Maybe you know then. A Nancy WATKINS married William Allen TARVER (b. 1805) in Jefferson County, GA in 1852. She was born ABT 1830. TARVER was somewhat of what my mother would call a cad. He married Lucretia DANIEL and had four kids by her. After her death in 1849 he dumped their children on her brothers, Robert W. DANIEL (1809-1865) and James L. DANIEL (1814-1857). He then married this WATKINS girl in 1852 but left his kids with RWD and JLD and had two more children by this WATKINS girl. My GGF, RWD actually married him and this WATKINS girl but I would not have done it, had I been him. A man has to have some kind of principles, right? I track them to Washington County, GA in 1860 but loose them afterwards. Someone once told me they went to Decatur, MS but I do not know. Some of his descendants by Lucretia still live in the Jefferson County, GA area. Jimmy TARVER is one of my cousins and Jimmy lives in Wadley. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ssand10749@aol.com> To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna In a message dated 8/4/04 7:31:28 AM, jclarke@rose.net writes: > I am a traditionalist. I still believe in BC and AD > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > Reply-To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com > To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:35 -0400 > > Thank you John Clarke for the superb job that you are doing letting all of us genealogy researches know how to go about finding out who belongs to who and how to contact the Family Tree DNA Project. I know that it is going to take the mystery out of so much of the Watkins line that I have been researching for so many years. God Bless, Shirley Watkins Sanders
In a message dated 8/4/04 7:31:28 AM, jclarke@rose.net writes: > I am a traditionalist. I still believe in BC and AD > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > Reply-To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com > To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:35 -0400 > > Thank you John Clarke for the superb job that you are doing letting all of us genealogy researches know how to go about finding out who belongs to who and how to contact the Family Tree DNA Project. I know that it is going to take the mystery out of so much of the Watkins line that I have been researching for so many years. God Bless, Shirley Watkins Sanders
With all the discussion of DNA on the list right now, I thought it might be a good time to let Jefferson County Arringtons know about the Arrington Family DNA Project at Relative Genetics There are several Arrington lines in Jefferson County with no apparent connection. I descend from two "different" Arrington lines myself. If you are a man with the Arrington surname and wish to participate, the project coordinator is A. Lee Bettershell, 916-966-3166, _LBattershe@aol.com_ (mailto:LBattershe@aol.com) . I've forgotten the actual cost, but I think it was between $150 and $180 for a 25 marker test. Since I don't carry the Arrington surname, I paid for one of my Arrington cousins to take the test. Tom Williams
Good Morning, One of the 25 matches for my DANIEL bunch was to a descendant of Benjamin DANIEL (1764-1816) and Lucretia BURGAMY of Washington, later Laurens County, GA. What most do not realize is her name was not BURGAMONT, as many list it, she was actually the d/o John BURGAMY and Elizabeth of Wilkes County, GA. This John was executed after the Battle of Augusta, GA in 1781 by English Col. BROWNE . What is interesting about John BURGAMY was -- his mother was a HAWKINS, a name we see all over the POTTERS of Granville and Vance County, NC and we know who they are loosely connected to -- the family of Chesley DANIEL and Judith Woodson CHRISTIAN. I have always felt there was a good chance Benjamin of Washington County, GA, due to his proximity, was related to my DANIEL bunch over in neighboring Burke and Jefferson County, GA. Nothing definite, just a hunch. We now carry Benjamin as a son of Capt. Aaron DANIEL and Elizabeth LANIER of Cheraw County, SC. We also know the widow of John BURGAMY later married a BERNARD AFT 1782, probably in Wilkes County, GA where BURGAMY was from. I do not have the documentation for the descendant of this Benjamin DANIEL who took this DNA test and am trying to get it. Maybe it will provide some other details. This all smells to be part of the same bunch. If this person who took this DNA test is actually a descendant of Benjamin DANIEL and he was actually a son of Aaron and Betsy, it confirms what I have began to think concerning this DANIEL family -- parts of the DANIEL family of Middlesex County, VA and the LANIER-DANIEL bunch of Tyrrell County, NC were parts of the same overall DANIEL family. However, that will have to wait upon the descent chart and documentation of this person who took this DNA test - Kit #13086. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA
Charlotte, Thanks for your comment. I will ask you a question about your COATS family in a private post. DNA is not a complex matter. All of the garbage that is out there concerning a the layout of lot of our families, is a complex matter. <grin> Some of these incorrect assignments were done because someone wanted a DAR ancestor, some were done because there were no civil records to guide them in their research and some were done just to attach their family to some famous family of the same name. I have always said there are probably as many Tory descendants in the DAR as there are those who descend from Patriots, such was the pressure on so many to gain admittance into this organization in the early days of last century. <grin> This pressure caused a lot of fudging with Revolutionary War records and it was not until about 1970 that the DAR started cleaning up this mess. The stuff at the LDS libraries did not help, either, because there were many fraudulent genealogies incorporated into the stuff from LDS and these lies have been told, over and over again until just about everyone believes them. DNA tests will put a stop to this mess. Let me tell you what we found in my DANIEL bunch. Since the early days of the last century the DANIELL family of Middlesex County, VA was pretty well documented. Capt. William DANIELL (1625-1698) had four boys (William, Jr, Robert, Richard and James) by two different wives. The line my DNA matches is that of the children of Capt. Robert DANIELL through his son, Capt. James DANIELL (1709-1761) who married a Jane HICKS. However, this is where it gets sticky. The DNA of the descendants of James DANIELL (1680-1748) does not match that of the descendants of his supposed older brother, Robert DANIELL (1660-1721). The children of James basically say they are the true descendants of Capt. William and we are not, however we have seven DNA matches from different lines in Robert's family and they only have one DNA test in their line. I think we will bear out in the end and theirs is the "problem" line. My line may well be a key in breaking all of this wide open because I never had any known connections to this family in Middlesex. In fact, all of my links are to eastern NC -- Pitt, Beaufort, Greene and Wayne County, NC. None of my DANIELL bunch ever lived anywhere near Middlesex County, VA that I can tell. Personally, I have felt I descend from either Capt. Robert Lanier DANIEL (1718-1794) of Pitt County, NC, Capt. Robert DANIEL (1718-1782) of Martin County, NC or Col. Robert DANIELL (1646-1718) of Charleston. Of these three I have always leaned towards Robert DANIELL of Charleston due to my many Charleston family links. Regardless, my family's DNA will break this particular DANIELL family's stated genealogy wide open because it breaks their preconceived notion and well documented information about how this family was laid out. Worth RAY of Dallas, TX, a well known DANIEL family researcher of some 50 years ago wrote an article in which he stated the Middlesex DANIELL family, some of the DANIEL boys in eastern NC and the DANIELL family of Charleston were one in the same family. Since then, other DANIEL Family researchers have ripped him to shreds, especially after his death. I think you can see, these are exactly the DNA results we are getting, today. I also think they all rolled out of Barbados after then end of the English Civil War (1663) and some rolled into VA, some into NC and some into SC. I think they were all heavily engaged in commerce or commerce related endeavors -- shipping, etc. My line's DNA supports this -- right down the line, Anglo-Saxon, a perfect match. As for something Charlotte stated -- the $99 test. Do not take this test because this is the 12 marker test. The 12 marker test only shows you to whom you are "not" related, and not to whom your "are" related. The first test that shows you "to whom" you are related is the 25 marker test and it costs less than $200, according to which project you get in. DNA tests are going to rip the guts out of some of these family book authors because they will not be able to spin their garbage, anymore. They may not provide all of the answers but they will break your family out into its natural order. They will not tell you who your actual ancestors were but they will narrow down your research to the right family. Most of you who know me, know that I strongly believe in family profiles. Something I know after all of this is -- the profile I wrote some half-dozen years ago of my family matches the DANIELL family of Middlesex County, VA to a tee. It also matches that of the Charleston DANIELL family, too. I do not know from which of those boys my Robert C. DANIELL (ABT 1765-AFT 1830) descends from but now that I have narrowed down my research to one family, I am a lot closer to home than I was a few months ago, especially since we now have identified some 25 distinct DANIEL lines in this country via of this DNA test. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Coats" <coats@hotmail.com> To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna I could not agree with John more!!!! The other major problem also includes lack of records from which to put families together, not to mention errors in the transcribed records, not to mention the number of assumed connections.... In our Coats DNA project we have found at least 3 or 4 unrelated Coats lines out of SC, we thought they were all related because they were there about the same time...but without documentation how would you tell? We've also found that some connections in print form didn't match in the DNA project....so the DNA projects are really worth their while...also focuses your research!! But as John says, the old research has just made things more complex i.e. if several of the same named lived in the same area about the same time, they were all assumed to be related, but when you try to check the references or documents, there just isn't anything to support, say those 16 kids, Thomas and Mary had....so where did all those kids come from...in a lot of cases they were guessed at...but once published boy, it's hard to break that wall again...:) Also in the old research, a lot of times they didn't distinquish the difference between say, Johns, they were just lumped all together... I also had an ancestor married twice and each wife named a son William...so he had two sons named William...now without the Bible record, we'd probably never have figured that out... So the up shot is: if you don't have a DNA record, you should get one...someday, that will be the only way to determine family relationship...the records for those early years are getting so old a lot of the archives will not make microfilm copies etc....and it is really getting expensive...SS applications from $7.00 to $47.00 dollars I think it was... But for $99.00 you can plug instantly into a group!!! and then focus your research after that if you wish!!! Family Tree DNA is here: http://www.ftdna.com Charlotte Coats Digital Archive http://www.rootsquest.com/~coatsfar ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> Reply-To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:35 -0400 Margie, We did it and the results surprised me. My research said my DANIEL line was probably out of the Thomas DANIEL the First of IOW County, VA line and it was not. In fact, it really surprised me with its results and it has thrown a lot of DANIEL lines in disarray because these lines were built on the research of others and this mess was all wrong. I guess you might say, my DANIEL bunch were in locations they never should have been located and with no strong links to those folks with whom they are 25/25 marker matches with - descendants of Capt. William DANIEL (1625-1698) family of Middlesex County, VA. I will tell this list the same things I told the DANIEL list -- DNA is the only definitive proof of a family relationship, these days and research not backed up with DNA is useless in my opinion. The problem is folks re-used so many given names in the early Colonial Period a lot of these folks have been assigned, incorrectly. I do not think these errors occurred in later periods (AFT 1850) but early (before 1800). Once you go down the wrong road, it is hard to get back on track, as we have all found out. I am not saying these folks that wrote these family histories did not do the best they could with the information they had in hand, they did, but there is only so much you can do with primary source information and a lot of what you do in your research is a "guess, at best." DNA takes the guesswork out of it by showing you, exactly, who you are related to. I also believe that only 25/25 marker matches should be even looked at as family in the Colonial American timeframe. I know that others will say that "one or two markers off are still family" and they are correct but they do not say "when you shared a common ancestor" and that is what you want to know. Statistically, with a 25/25 marker match to an identical surname means you have a 90% chance of sharing a common ancestor in the Colonial American time frame (14.4 generations) with someone's whose DNA matches, perfectly, that of your line. Any match less than 25/25 means you probably shared a MRCA (most recent common ancestor) before the Colonial American time frame. One marker off means you probably shared a MRCA in the 12th century and 2 markers off means you probably shared a MRCA in the Dark Ages. The actual figures used by FamilyTreeDNA is a 25/25 marker match means you have a 50% probability to share a MRCA in the past seven generations. However, statisticians will not even look at probabilities less than 90% to establish relationships, which is why I used this figure - 14.4 generations. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== If you wish to unsubscribe from the GAJEFFER mailing list, use GAJEFFER-l-request@rootsweb.com or GAJEFFER-d-request@rootsweb.com if you are on the Digest list. ============================== You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/
Amen Amen John....:) As to the 12 marker test though...that will fit you into a group initially...we have one Coats group that all have exact matches...at 12 markers...so that can help narrow the groups...the other 25 or 37 marker tests then give you subgroups within a group...is that the way you understand it John? I just know those DNA tests really help and when it comes to costs....start there, you can then spend your fortune documenting it....:) Char ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> Reply-To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:29:33 -0400 Charlotte, Thanks for your comment. I will ask you a question about your COATS family in a private post. DNA is not a complex matter. All of the garbage that is out there concerning a the layout of lot of our families, is a complex matter. <grin> Some of these incorrect assignments were done because someone wanted a DAR ancestor, some were done because there were no civil records to guide them in their research and some were done just to attach their family to some famous family of the same name. I have always said there are probably as many Tory descendants in the DAR as there are those who descend from Patriots, such was the pressure on so many to gain admittance into this organization in the early days of last century. <grin> This pressure caused a lot of fudging with Revolutionary War records and it was not until about 1970 that the DAR started cleaning up this mess. The stuff at the LDS libraries did not help, either, because there were many fraudulent genealogies incorporated into the stuff from LDS and these lies have been told, over and over again until just about everyone believes them. DNA tests will put a stop to this mess. Let me tell you what we found in my DANIEL bunch. Since the early days of the last century the DANIELL family of Middlesex County, VA was pretty well documented. Capt. William DANIELL (1625-1698) had four boys (William, Jr, Robert, Richard and James) by two different wives. The line my DNA matches is that of the children of Capt. Robert DANIELL through his son, Capt. James DANIELL (1709-1761) who married a Jane HICKS. However, this is where it gets sticky. The DNA of the descendants of James DANIELL (1680-1748) does not match that of the descendants of his supposed older brother, Robert DANIELL (1660-1721). The children of James basically say they are the true descendants of Capt. William and we are not, however we have seven DNA matches from different lines in Robert's family and they only have one DNA test in their line. I think we will bear out in the end and theirs is the "problem" line. My line may well be a key in breaking all of this wide open because I never had any known connections to this family in Middlesex. In fact, all of my links are to eastern NC -- Pitt, Beaufort, Greene and Wayne County, NC. None of my DANIELL bunch ever lived anywhere near Middlesex County, VA that I can tell. Personally, I have felt I descend from either Capt. Robert Lanier DANIEL (1718-1794) of Pitt County, NC, Capt. Robert DANIEL (1718-1782) of Martin County, NC or Col. Robert DANIELL (1646-1718) of Charleston. Of these three I have always leaned towards Robert DANIELL of Charleston due to my many Charleston family links. Regardless, my family's DNA will break this particular DANIELL family's stated genealogy wide open because it breaks their preconceived notion and well documented information about how this family was laid out. Worth RAY of Dallas, TX, a well known DANIEL family researcher of some 50 years ago wrote an article in which he stated the Middlesex DANIELL family, some of the DANIEL boys in eastern NC and the DANIELL family of Charleston were one in the same family. Since then, other DANIEL Family researchers have ripped him to shreds, especially after his death. I think you can see, these are exactly the DNA results we are getting, today. I also think they all rolled out of Barbados after then end of the English Civil War (1663) and some rolled into VA, some into NC and some into SC. I think they were all heavily engaged in commerce or commerce related endeavors -- shipping, etc. My line's DNA supports this -- right down the line, Anglo-Saxon, a perfect match. As for something Charlotte stated -- the $99 test. Do not take this test because this is the 12 marker test. The 12 marker test only shows you to whom you are "not" related, and not to whom your "are" related. The first test that shows you "to whom" you are related is the 25 marker test and it costs less than $200, according to which project you get in. DNA tests are going to rip the guts out of some of these family book authors because they will not be able to spin their garbage, anymore. They may not provide all of the answers but they will break your family out into its natural order. They will not tell you who your actual ancestors were but they will narrow down your research to the right family. Most of you who know me, know that I strongly believe in family profiles. Something I know after all of this is -- the profile I wrote some half-dozen years ago of my family matches the DANIELL family of Middlesex County, VA to a tee. It also matches that of the Charleston DANIELL family, too. I do not know from which of those boys my Robert C. DANIELL (ABT 1765-AFT 1830) descends from but now that I have narrowed down my research to one family, I am a lot closer to home than I was a few months ago, especially since we now have identified some 25 distinct DANIEL lines in this country via of this DNA test. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Coats" <coats@hotmail.com> To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna I could not agree with John more!!!! The other major problem also includes lack of records from which to put families together, not to mention errors in the transcribed records, not to mention the number of assumed connections.... In our Coats DNA project we have found at least 3 or 4 unrelated Coats lines out of SC, we thought they were all related because they were there about the same time...but without documentation how would you tell? We've also found that some connections in print form didn't match in the DNA project....so the DNA projects are really worth their while...also focuses your research!! But as John says, the old research has just made things more complex i.e. if several of the same named lived in the same area about the same time, they were all assumed to be related, but when you try to check the references or documents, there just isn't anything to support, say those 16 kids, Thomas and Mary had....so where did all those kids come from...in a lot of cases they were guessed at...but once published boy, it's hard to break that wall again...:) Also in the old research, a lot of times they didn't distinquish the difference between say, Johns, they were just lumped all together... I also had an ancestor married twice and each wife named a son William...so he had two sons named William...now without the Bible record, we'd probably never have figured that out... So the up shot is: if you don't have a DNA record, you should get one...someday, that will be the only way to determine family relationship...the records for those early years are getting so old a lot of the archives will not make microfilm copies etc....and it is really getting expensive...SS applications from $7.00 to $47.00 dollars I think it was... But for $99.00 you can plug instantly into a group!!! and then focus your research after that if you wish!!! Family Tree DNA is here: http://www.ftdna.com Charlotte Coats Digital Archive http://www.rootsquest.com/~coatsfar ----Original Message Follows---- From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> Reply-To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:35 -0400 Margie, We did it and the results surprised me. My research said my DANIEL line was probably out of the Thomas DANIEL the First of IOW County, VA line and it was not. In fact, it really surprised me with its results and it has thrown a lot of DANIEL lines in disarray because these lines were built on the research of others and this mess was all wrong. I guess you might say, my DANIEL bunch were in locations they never should have been located and with no strong links to those folks with whom they are 25/25 marker matches with - descendants of Capt. William DANIEL (1625-1698) family of Middlesex County, VA. I will tell this list the same things I told the DANIEL list -- DNA is the only definitive proof of a family relationship, these days and research not backed up with DNA is useless in my opinion. The problem is folks re-used so many given names in the early Colonial Period a lot of these folks have been assigned, incorrectly. I do not think these errors occurred in later periods (AFT 1850) but early (before 1800). Once you go down the wrong road, it is hard to get back on track, as we have all found out. I am not saying these folks that wrote these family histories did not do the best they could with the information they had in hand, they did, but there is only so much you can do with primary source information and a lot of what you do in your research is a "guess, at best." DNA takes the guesswork out of it by showing you, exactly, who you are related to. I also believe that only 25/25 marker matches should be even looked at as family in the Colonial American timeframe. I know that others will say that "one or two markers off are still family" and they are correct but they do not say "when you shared a common ancestor" and that is what you want to know. Statistically, with a 25/25 marker match to an identical surname means you have a 90% chance of sharing a common ancestor in the Colonial American time frame (14.4 generations) with someone's whose DNA matches, perfectly, that of your line. Any match less than 25/25 means you probably shared a MRCA (most recent common ancestor) before the Colonial American time frame. One marker off means you probably shared a MRCA in the 12th century and 2 markers off means you probably shared a MRCA in the Dark Ages. The actual figures used by FamilyTreeDNA is a 25/25 marker match means you have a 50% probability to share a MRCA in the past seven generations. However, statisticians will not even look at probabilities less than 90% to establish relationships, which is why I used this figure - 14.4 generations. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== If you wish to unsubscribe from the GAJEFFER mailing list, use GAJEFFER-l-request@rootsweb.com or GAJEFFER-d-request@rootsweb.com if you are on the Digest list. ============================== You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact GAJEFFER-ADMIN@ROOTSWEB.COM ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
If anyone ever starts one on the Hadden family I have several relatives that are ready, willing and able to donate. Please let me know. Thanks, Margie Puckett King ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Coats" <coats@hotmail.com> To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna > I could not agree with John more!!!! The other major problem also includes > lack of records from which to put families together, not to mention errors > in the transcribed records, not to mention the number of assumed > connections.... > > In our Coats DNA project we have found at least 3 or 4 unrelated Coats lines > out of SC, we thought they were all related because they were there about > the same time...but without documentation how would you tell? We've also > found that some connections in print form didn't match in the DNA > project....so the DNA projects are really worth their while...also focuses > your research!! > > But as John says, the old research has just made things more complex i.e. > if several of the same named lived in the same area about the same time, > they were all assumed to be related, but when you try to check the > references or documents, there just isn't anything to support, say those 16 > kids, Thomas and Mary had....so where did all those kids come from...in a > lot of cases they were guessed at...but once published boy, it's hard to > break that wall again...:) Also in the old research, a lot of times they > didn't distinquish the difference between say, Johns, they were just lumped > all together... > > I also had an ancestor married twice and each wife named a son William...so > he had two sons named William...now without the Bible record, we'd probably > never have figured that out... > > So the up shot is: if you don't have a DNA record, you should get > one...someday, that will be the only way to determine family > relationship...the records for those early years are getting so old a lot of > the archives will not make microfilm copies etc....and it is really getting > expensive...SS applications from $7.00 to $47.00 dollars I think it was... > > But for $99.00 you can plug instantly into a group!!! and then focus your > research after that if you wish!!! > > Family Tree DNA is here: http://www.ftdna.com > > Charlotte > Coats Digital Archive > http://www.rootsquest.com/~coatsfar > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > Reply-To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com > To: GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:30:35 -0400 > > Margie, > We did it and the results surprised me. My research said my DANIEL line > was probably out of the Thomas DANIEL the First of IOW County, VA line and > it was not. In fact, it really surprised me with its results and it has > thrown a lot of DANIEL lines in disarray because these lines were built on > the research of others and this mess was all wrong. I guess you might say, > my DANIEL bunch were in locations they never should have been located and > with no strong links to those folks with whom they are 25/25 marker matches > with - descendants of Capt. William DANIEL (1625-1698) family of Middlesex > County, VA. > > I will tell this list the same things I told the DANIEL list -- DNA is > the only definitive proof of a family relationship, these days and research > not backed up with DNA is useless in my opinion. The problem is folks > re-used so many given names in the early Colonial Period a lot of these > folks have been assigned, incorrectly. I do not think these errors occurred > in later periods (AFT 1850) but early (before 1800). Once you go down the > wrong road, it is hard to get back on track, as we have all found out. > > I am not saying these folks that wrote these family histories did not do > the best they could with the information they had in hand, they did, but > there is only so much you can do with primary source information and a lot > of what you do in your research is a "guess, at best." DNA takes the > guesswork out of it by showing you, exactly, who you are related to. > > I also believe that only 25/25 marker matches should be even looked at > as family in the Colonial American timeframe. I know that others will say > that "one or two markers off are still family" and they are correct but they > do not say "when you shared a common ancestor" and that is what you want to > know. Statistically, with a 25/25 marker match to an identical surname > means you have a 90% chance of sharing a common ancestor in the Colonial > American time frame (14.4 generations) with someone's whose DNA matches, > perfectly, that of your line. > > Any match less than 25/25 means you probably shared a MRCA (most recent > common ancestor) before the Colonial American time frame. One marker off > means you probably shared a MRCA in the 12th century and 2 markers off means > you probably shared a MRCA in the Dark Ages. The actual figures used by > FamilyTreeDNA is a 25/25 marker match means you have a 50% probability to > share a MRCA in the past seven generations. > > However, statisticians will not even look at probabilities less than 90% > to establish relationships, which is why I used this figure - 14.4 > generations. > > John R. Clarke > Thomasville, GA > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== > If you wish to unsubscribe from the GAJEFFER mailing list, use GAJEFFER-l-request@rootsweb.com or GAJEFFER-d-request@rootsweb.com if you are on the Digest list. > > ============================== > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ > >
Margie, We did it and the results surprised me. My research said my DANIEL line was probably out of the Thomas DANIEL the First of IOW County, VA line and it was not. In fact, it really surprised me with its results and it has thrown a lot of DANIEL lines in disarray because these lines were built on the research of others and this mess was all wrong. I guess you might say, my DANIEL bunch were in locations they never should have been located and with no strong links to those folks with whom they are 25/25 marker matches with - descendants of Capt. William DANIEL (1625-1698) family of Middlesex County, VA. I will tell this list the same things I told the DANIEL list -- DNA is the only definitive proof of a family relationship, these days and research not backed up with DNA is useless in my opinion. The problem is folks re-used so many given names in the early Colonial Period a lot of these folks have been assigned, incorrectly. I do not think these errors occurred in later periods (AFT 1850) but early (before 1800). Once you go down the wrong road, it is hard to get back on track, as we have all found out. I am not saying these folks that wrote these family histories did not do the best they could with the information they had in hand, they did, but there is only so much you can do with primary source information and a lot of what you do in your research is a "guess, at best." DNA takes the guesswork out of it by showing you, exactly, who you are related to. I also believe that only 25/25 marker matches should be even looked at as family in the Colonial American timeframe. I know that others will say that "one or two markers off are still family" and they are correct but they do not say "when you shared a common ancestor" and that is what you want to know. Statistically, with a 25/25 marker match to an identical surname means you have a 90% chance of sharing a common ancestor in the Colonial American time frame (14.4 generations) with someone's whose DNA matches, perfectly, that of your line. Any match less than 25/25 means you probably shared a MRCA (most recent common ancestor) before the Colonial American time frame. One marker off means you probably shared a MRCA in the 12th century and 2 markers off means you probably shared a MRCA in the Dark Ages. The actual figures used by FamilyTreeDNA is a 25/25 marker match means you have a 50% probability to share a MRCA in the past seven generations. However, statisticians will not even look at probabilities less than 90% to establish relationships, which is why I used this figure - 14.4 generations. John R. Clarke Thomasville, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie King" <heyred@knology.net> To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna >I would like to talk with someone that had done the DNA just to see if what > results they get. Do you know if anyone is doing DNA on the HADDEN > family? > Margie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Clarke" <jclarke@rose.net> > To: <GAJEFFER-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:10 PM > Subject: [GAJEFFER] DNA Tests at FamilyTreeDna > > >> John, >> Its real easy to conduct a "Y" DNA test. This is a test for males, >> only, and is especially beneficial for families trying to track their > family >> name to see if it matches another person from the same family. >> >> In case you did not know, the male "Y" chromosome is passed from > father >> to son, unchanged. So, a male's "Y" chromosome is the same as his > paternal >> father, grandfather, GGF and all the way back in his paternal male line. >> This being the case, you can use it to find other families of your same > name >> that are related to you. >> >> In my case, my "Y" goes all the way back to my 3rd GGF, Frederick >> Carl >> Wilhelm RICHTER (ABT 1750-AFT 1799) of Reichenbach, Liegnitz, Schlesien, >> Prussia >> >> To take this test go to... >> Go to http://www.familytreedna.com/ >> >> Search for the DNA Project for the name of a project covering the surname >> you want. In this case, PARKER. I already have done it for your, so >> here >> is the link. If someone does not want the name, PARKER, they can search > for >> some other surname project from the opening page of this website: >> >> http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Parker >> >> Contact the person who is running the list (there is a form, provided) >> and >> join their group. The coordinator for the project will send you all the >> details. >> >> Then, you can buy the kit and they will send it to you. All you do > this >> is a mouth swab, according to the instructions in the kit. Then, send it >> back to them for testing. It takes about 2-3 months to get the results >> back. >> >> After you get the results, your Project coordinator should group you >> results on another website and show you who matches whom. Regardless, >> FamilyTreeDNA will have a link to your test kit number and it will show > you >> everybody who matches within 2 markers, the results of your test. >> >> Some say that if you match 23/25 makers you are family but the >> problem >> with this, they do not tell you when you shared a Most Recent Common >> Ancestor (MRCA) and a drift of 2 markers means that MRCA could > have >> been about the time of Christ but I suggest looking at their statistical >> data only after you get your results. >> >> Take for an example our 25/25 marker matches. This tells us we have >> a >> 50% probability of having a MRCA in 7 generation but no statistician >> worth >> his salt would ever consider a 50% probability as meaningful so you >> really >> need to look at the 90% probability curves and that says we probably > shared >> a MRCA in the past 14 generations, which for most of us is about the time > of >> the Colonial American period - 1600. >> >> If you have any drift (23/25 or 24/25) this drift just extends the > time >> frame for which you shared a MRCA. I do not remember the exact 90% >> probability curve for a 24/25 marker match but it was well over 20 >> generations and that puts you back into the Dark Ages before the use of >> surnames were even in use. BTW, surnames came into you sometime in the > 12th >> Century for most Europeans. >> >> I assume you know that you could have a 25/25 marker match with > someone >> named SMITH or even JONES even if your name was PARKER. This just means > you >> descend from a common ancestor who lived in an era before surnames were >> in >> general use (1100 AD). >> >> There are three "Y" DNA tests available for males - a 12 marker, a > 25 >> marker and a new 37 marker. Each one generally costs more than the >> other. >> A 12 marker is about $100, a 25 marker about $200 and a 37 marker about >> $300. If you go in an already established Name Project, the costs are >> generally less than those listed on their website. The prices I quoted >> above are our costs for the DANIEL family project. >> >> Here is my opinion on the three "Y" DNA tests >> >> 1. A 12 marker test -- this is used to prove who you are not related to > as >> opposed to who you are related to. I would not use this test. >> >> 2. A 25 marker test - this is the first reasonable test you should > consider >> because a perfect 25/25 match on this test will tell you that you have a > 50% >> probability of sharing a MRCA within the past 7 generations and this >> means >> in simple terms you have a good chance of having a MRCA in the Colonial >> American Timeframe. >> >> 3. A 37 marker test -- this drops the 50% probability down to five >> generations if you both have a 37/37 match. >> >> BTW, I am a traditionalist. I still believe in BC and AD. <grin> I am >> also going to copy this to several other lists, so I have deleted your >> message to me. >> >> >> John R. Clarke >> Thomasville, GA >> >> >> >> ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== >> NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, > political announcements, current events, items for sale, personal > messages, > flames, etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds > for > removal. Consideration for exceptions, contact GAJEFFER-ADMIN@ROOTSWEB.COM >> >> ============================== >> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >> >> > > > > ==== GAJEFFER Mailing List ==== > If you wish to unsubscribe from the GAJEFFER mailing list, use > GAJEFFER-l-request@rootsweb.com or GAJEFFER-d-request@rootsweb.com if you > are on the Digest list. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >