Dear List, I do not believe all of this is necessary, we have either been raised with manners or we haven't. I don't need "Miss Manners" to point out rude to me. The fact is that the Treutlin County Website says that Bob Fender is the RC for East Central Region. Donna welcomed him, stated she must have missed it on the mailing list and asked if he was the same as or kin to Robert Fender who has Floyd and Whitfield counties. If we can't believe what we read on the pages of GAGENWEB, exactly where are we to get our information from? We are, after all, charged with compiling information for researchers of genealogy,which while not an exact science should be as ACCURATE as possible or we are doing a disservice to those researchers. I don't believe this accuracy should end with the actual genealogical data and records but should carry through the whole project as that is the "introduction" to the data and records. I believe Tim could have responded to Donna's welcome message with "the facts" instead of "Surely you don't believe everything you read?". After all, we have been informed that the East Central Region no longer has a Regional Coordinator since Laura Schmidt resigned on 16 Feb 2003, but this page http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/regional.html, which is our information page for Regions in Georgia states that she is still the Regional Coordinator instead of saying there isn't one at the moment or that the position is open for volunteers. So, why was it such a big jump to believe that what was posted on the Treutlen County site was true and that she had just missed the notice to the list? Linda Barton -----Original Message----- From: B.Pierce [mailto:ltlbit@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:52 PM To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GAGEN] List Decorum Judith Martin (better known as Miss Manners) in an interview with Virginia Shea back in 1995 had some very interesting comments. MAIN POINTS: 1) The etiquette rule is that you do not respond to rudeness with more rudeness; it doesn't solve the problem. So you treat him with the proper reaction to rudeness, which is not to [act as if] everything is fine. You get rather stiffly polite, and you steer somewhat clear of that person until he realizes he's done something awfully wrong. 2) There are plenty of people who say, ``We don't care about etiquette, but we can't stand the way so-and-so behaves, and we don't want him around!'' Etiquette doesn't have the great sanctions that the law has. BUT THE MAIN SANCTION WE DO HAVE is in not dealing with these people and isolating them because their behavior is unbearable. ... more Miss Manners in full .... Miss Manners has commented extensively on how to behave correctly in almost every situation in American life. So why not in cyberspace? ....... Here's what she had to say: Because E-mail can go essentially from the writer's brain to the recipient's screen, people often press the ``send'' button on messages they probably wouldn't put in the mail. So here's the situation: A colleague sends me E-mail saying that he doesn't like some work I've done, and he says some rather nasty things. Of course, my immediate response is to want to flame right back at him. Is that a good response? Miss Manners: The etiquette rule is that you do not respond to rudeness with more rudeness; it doesn't solve the problem. So you treat him with the proper reaction to rudeness, which is not to [act as if] everything is fine. You get rather stiffly polite, and you steer somewhat clear of that person until he realizes he's done something awfully wrong. Miss Manners: The response is the same as it is in society: You can deny all you want that there is etiquette, and a lot of people do in everyday life. But if you behave in a way that offends the people you're trying to deal with, they will stop dealing with you. And that can happen as easily in cyberspace as it happens every day in real life. There are plenty of people who say, ``We don't care about etiquette, but we can't stand the way so-and-so behaves, and we don't want him around!'' Etiquette doesn't have the great sanctions that the law has. But the main sanction we do have is in not dealing with these people and isolating them because their behavior is unbearable. [In cyberspace], people can easily avail themselves of the cloak of total anonymity, which of course creates a lot of etiquette problems. Because if you're rude under a code name and I can't see you, I don't know where you live, and I don't even know your real name, [then] you probably don't feel the sense of shame you would feel if you were rude to the same group of people but were in a room with them. http://www.computerworld.com/reprintthis/1995/0,4836,17542,00.html I requested a copy sent to this list. Credits: Computerworld Virginia Shea and Judith Martin (AKA Miss Manners) Other words to associate with the word Etiquette: appropriateness, ceremoniousness, civility, conventionality, correctness, courtesy, decorum, dignity, etiquette, fitness, fittingness, formality, good manners, honesty, modesty, propriety, respectability, righteousness, seemliness, virtue, custom, digest, discipline, ethics .... In real simple terms - embarrassing another cc in this project on this list is not appropriate. In lieu of Jimmy providing a verbal warning to those indulging in this activity, it would probably be more appropriate if a public apology on the list were made to Mr. Fender. Brenda Pierce <BOLD> Brenda </Bold> ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== Have you added something signifigant to your website? Advertise it on this list!

I agree - and it does seem to me that much ado has been made about nothing. What is the real issue here? Why the heated "etiquette" post? The simple fact was that no harm was done - there was an "oops" - we all make "oops" - nobody was rude - until the etiquette post was sent, which was very judgmental and had no reason to hit the list at all, IMHO - certainly not because of Bob's "oops" and someone asking about it! What is the real issue here, people? Whatever it is, I suspect it has nothing at all to do with Bob - if I were in his shoes, I would appreciate y'all addressing your "issues" without putting my "oops" in the middle of it - that is the ultimate rudeness, IMHO - Carol At 01:16 PM 3/4/2003, Linda Barton wrote: >Dear List, > >I do not believe all of this is necessary, we have either been raised with >manners or we haven't. I don't >need "Miss Manners" to point out rude to me. > >The fact is that the Treutlin County Website says that Bob Fender is the RC >for East Central Region. >Donna welcomed him, stated she must have missed it on the mailing list and >asked if he was the same >as or kin to Robert Fender who has Floyd and Whitfield counties. > >If we can't believe what we read on the pages of GAGENWEB, exactly where are >we to get our information >from? We are, after all, charged with compiling information for researchers >of genealogy,which while not >an exact science should be as ACCURATE as possible or we are doing a >disservice to those researchers. >I don't believe this accuracy should end with the actual genealogical data >and records but should carry >through the whole project as that is the "introduction" to the data and >records. > >I believe Tim could have responded to Donna's welcome message with "the >facts" instead of "Surely you don't >believe everything you read?". After all, we have been informed that the >East Central Region no longer has >a Regional Coordinator since Laura Schmidt resigned on 16 Feb 2003, >but this page http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/regional.html, which is our >information page for Regions >in Georgia states that she is still the Regional Coordinator instead of >saying there isn't one at the moment >or that the position is open for volunteers. > >So, why was it such a big jump to believe that what was posted on the >Treutlen County site was true and that >she had just missed the notice to the list? > >Linda Barton > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: B.Pierce [mailto:ltlbit@mindspring.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:52 PM >To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [GAGEN] List Decorum > > >Judith Martin (better known as Miss Manners) in an interview with Virginia >Shea back in 1995 had some very interesting comments. > > MAIN POINTS: >1) The etiquette rule is that you do not respond to rudeness with more >rudeness; it doesn't solve the problem. So you treat him with the proper >reaction to rudeness, which is not to [act as if] everything is fine. You >get rather stiffly polite, and you steer somewhat clear of that person until >he realizes he's done something awfully wrong. > >2) There are plenty of people who say, ``We don't care about etiquette, but >we can't stand the way so-and-so behaves, and we don't want him around!'' >Etiquette doesn't have the great sanctions that the law has. BUT THE MAIN >SANCTION WE DO HAVE is in not dealing with these people and isolating them >because their behavior is unbearable. > > > ... more Miss Manners in full .... > >Miss Manners has commented extensively on how to behave correctly in almost >every situation in American life. So why not in cyberspace? ....... Here's >what she had to say: > > >Because E-mail can go essentially from the writer's brain to the recipient's >screen, people often press the ``send'' button on messages they probably >wouldn't put in the mail. So here's the situation: A colleague sends me >E-mail saying that he doesn't like some work I've done, and he says some >rather nasty things. Of course, my immediate response is to want to flame >right back at him. Is that a good response? > >Miss Manners: The etiquette rule is that you do not respond to rudeness with >more rudeness; it doesn't solve the problem. So you treat him with the >proper reaction to rudeness, which is not to [act as if] everything is fine. >You get rather stiffly polite, and you steer somewhat clear of that person >until he realizes he's done something awfully wrong. > >Miss Manners: The response is the same as it is in society: You can deny all >you want that there is etiquette, and a lot of people do in everyday life. >But if you behave in a way that offends the people you're trying to deal >with, they will stop dealing with you. And that can happen as easily in >cyberspace as it happens every day in real life. > >There are plenty of people who say, ``We don't care about etiquette, but we >can't stand the way so-and-so behaves, and we don't want him around!'' >Etiquette doesn't have the great sanctions that the law has. But the main >sanction we do have is in not dealing with these people and isolating them >because their behavior is unbearable. > >[In cyberspace], people can easily avail themselves of the cloak of total >anonymity, which of course creates a lot of etiquette problems. Because if >you're rude under a code name and I can't see you, I don't know where you >live, and I don't even know your real name, [then] you probably don't feel >the sense of shame you would feel if you were rude to the same group of >people but were in a room with them. > >http://www.computerworld.com/reprintthis/1995/0,4836,17542,00.html > >I requested a copy sent to this list. >Credits: Computerworld >Virginia Shea and Judith Martin (AKA Miss Manners) > > >Other words to associate with the word Etiquette: >appropriateness, ceremoniousness, civility, conventionality, correctness, >courtesy, decorum, dignity, etiquette, fitness, fittingness, formality, good >manners, honesty, modesty, propriety, respectability, righteousness, >seemliness, virtue, custom, digest, discipline, ethics .... > > >In real simple terms - embarrassing another cc in this project on this list >is not appropriate. In lieu of Jimmy providing a verbal warning to those >indulging in this activity, it would probably be more appropriate if a >public apology on the list were made to Mr. Fender. > > >Brenda Pierce > > > ><BOLD> Brenda </Bold> > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== >Have you added something signifigant to your website? Advertise it on this >list! > > > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== >Do you have a suggestion to include in our taglines? If so, please write >GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com Carol C-H <cch@netdoor.com> http://www2.netdoor.com/~cch/