> Did not bother to add the exact day as I sent that one to aol and also the isp > > so they could trace it and perhaps take some action. Oh goodness, Gloria. None of us CCs should have to put up with abuse of any kind. When it comes in the form on email like this though it SHOULD be reported like you've done. I thought at first it might be that "forgery" virus, klez, but see this is not virus even though it might make one sick <g> I know there's lots of folks that read the mail list Archives so they evidentally got your email addy from there. Thakfully, I have gotten one of these yet. Bettie <><

When wanting to add a copyright symbol to an HTML page, it can sometimes works better if one uses the standard html code for the symbol. There are 2 choices and either work but the first is the preferred one: - &#169; - &copy Just insert that where you want the copyright symbol and it will appear as the symbol on the page. HTH Derek Nichols Echols

To make the copyright © symbol press ALT +0169 Use the "numbers pad" to make the +0169....note the "+" is to be included as one of the character keys to press. HTH Sharon

If Mary Kathryn relinquished her copyright to you, as would be appropriate when a county changes hands, there is no problem. If she was not willing to let you use her design, I'm sure she would have asked you to design your own pages. Either way, it's between you and Mary Kathryn. Vivian Price Saffold Meriwether County At 06:42 AM 2/25/03 -0500, you wrote: >I recently volunteered to become the Coordinator for Monroe County >Georgia. The >previous coordinator Mary Kathryn Kozy retired, leaving an excellent web for >Monroe County. Now, I assumed that once she resigned or any coordinator >resigned, the County Web pages were "passed on" to the new Coordinator. Mary >Kathryn told me to make any changes I wanted and fortunately very few were >necessary, however, I have inserted my name on the pages she (or even perhaps >her predecessor) created. > >Are we saying that when you volunteer to become a replacement Coordinator >for a >county that you must CREATE AN ENTIRELY NEW WEB? What happens then to the >"old" >pages? > >I understand and agree that any files contributed to either Archives or a >county >page should be copyrighted by the person contributing the file. I am in total >agreement. These individual contributions make up a large part of the files on >the county pages and the coordinators job is to load and maintain these files. >If a coordinator has developed a page to post, say, marriage records, does >he/she own the copyright of the design of the page but not the content >(individual contributors.) > >I have never felt the Haralson County web, nor the Monroe County web, was >'owned' by me. The copyright on these pages is to prevent COMMERCIAL links to >the pages. > >It was never my intent to infringe upon anyone's copyright and I am very >concerned that I may have done so. > >Would appreciate clarification of this point. Maybe we need to start >getting a >release from the previous coordinators or have it stated in the guidelines >that >once you resign GaGenWeb retains the web page design or whatever. > >Liz Robertson >CC, HARALSON AND >MONROE CO., GA > > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== >Regional Coordinators are there to help County Coordinators. Don't > hesitate to contact them should you have any, any question. To find >info on your region visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/regional.html 3570 Hildon Circle Chamblee, GA 30341 Note new url: http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/s/msaffold

Just as Bettie Wood suggested on this list ---- CAT mentioned that she does the same thing about submitters. To make it easier to maintain (when people change e-mails), she links the name on the "data page" to ONE page ---- a sort of Submitters Directory. I think this is a good solution. I realize that there are many pages which are sort of a combination of lots of folks ideas.... but I think that those people also deserve to be named. Mary K had a page where she just "thanked ...... a list of people who contributed information which resulted in that specific page. How do the rest of you handle this? I think this identification of work and contributions is one of the most important things that I need to work on. And as the county pages change hand over the years, we need to give proper credits to the previous CCs work. And to also identify that it is my own work when this is appropriate. Virginia Crilley

I asked CAT Tindell for some more specifics regarding the actual wording of the copyright --- and also to help me understand the complexity of "design of page" and using graphics. Graphics and "data" seem to be two separate items. She's busy with family right now --- so I'm quoting from her note until she has the time to write herself. I hope others will also help to clarify as I'm trying to learn this myself: =====From CAT Tindall======= Design Copyright 2003 <Virginia Crilley, city, state> Email: <email addy> Content Copyright 1996-2003 USGenWeb Project <http://www.usgenweb.org>www.usgenweb.org and the individual data submitter as noted. You should also put the copyright symbol, which I can't do in this email, right before the word "Copyright". *****Virginia says: I didn't know how to get the copyright symbol so I just copied it off of CAT's page and inserted it at the bottom of the main Marion County page. I had redesigned the front page.**** This way clearly shows the line drawn between the 2 copyright concepts and that they are independent of each other. CC's are merely administrators of this project and volunteer to design and keep maintained web pages about the county they volunteered to do. They do not become the owner of the information, only the design..... =========CAT comments on using pages without redesigning====== **Virginia asked: what about a page that I don't update or change?** Yes, you must keep Mary K's name on that military page if you keep the page 'as is'...but do remove her referance as CC at the bottom of that page if she's no longer the CC, instead putting her email addy. Contact info should always be included with the copyright info at the bottom of very web page. If you want to redo the design of this page, still including the links that she used, then you can remove her copyright entirely. There's no such thing as a holding a copyright on a link. Mary K did not use any Civil War/Military graphics on her page for you to be concerned about..only that blue/green bar at the bottom which can stay if you keep her name as the copyright holder. If you redo that page, remove that graphic. ======CAT on using graphics========== Credit must be given back for every graphic on a page if a designer did not pay for that graphic. I don't know of a single site on the internet that allows for no credit to be given for freeware graphics. Other than adjusting the size of graphics, no other changes can be made to freeware graphics. ***Virginia: I have used some "generic type" graphics --- flag bars, CSA soldiers, etc but didn't realize that I need to state the sources here as well. ****Virginia: Also CAT mentioned that on some of her pages she had used graphics "with permission" --- and that these graphics are no longer available to the public, and that no other person would be able to use them. CAT herself could not give permission to the next CC to use those specific graphics, and the graphic didn't belong to her. Virginia Crilley

I recently volunteered to become the Coordinator for Monroe County Georgia. The previous coordinator Mary Kathryn Kozy retired, leaving an excellent web for Monroe County. Now, I assumed that once she resigned or any coordinator resigned, the County Web pages were "passed on" to the new Coordinator. Mary Kathryn told me to make any changes I wanted and fortunately very few were necessary, however, I have inserted my name on the pages she (or even perhaps her predecessor) created. Are we saying that when you volunteer to become a replacement Coordinator for a county that you must CREATE AN ENTIRELY NEW WEB? What happens then to the "old" pages? I understand and agree that any files contributed to either Archives or a county page should be copyrighted by the person contributing the file. I am in total agreement. These individual contributions make up a large part of the files on the county pages and the coordinators job is to load and maintain these files. If a coordinator has developed a page to post, say, marriage records, does he/she own the copyright of the design of the page but not the content (individual contributors.) I have never felt the Haralson County web, nor the Monroe County web, was 'owned' by me. The copyright on these pages is to prevent COMMERCIAL links to the pages. It was never my intent to infringe upon anyone's copyright and I am very concerned that I may have done so. Would appreciate clarification of this point. Maybe we need to start getting a release from the previous coordinators or have it stated in the guidelines that once you resign GaGenWeb retains the web page design or whatever. Liz Robertson CC, HARALSON AND MONROE CO., GA

Thanks Tim. Don't let it all get you down. Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Stowell" <tstowell@chattanooga.net> To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:14 AM Subject: [GAGEN] news and stuff > I finally got back on line this PM. My ISP 'forgot' to renew > their trust certificate and thus got disconnected from the > rest of the Internet. They got that fixed sometime today (Monday). > > So now I've another back log of mail. > > In an effort to restore this list as a business list only - where > announcements are made, items that effect everyone and the like, > I've been asked by several CCs to acquire, start, a chat list. > > We already have such but it is highly under-utilized. There are > folks there that I don't know from Adam's house cat and they can > remain if they can stand the chat. This list will be voluntary > only - it is not required. So go there and chat your faces off! > > For new subscribers there it will be limited to GAGenWeb Project > members. > > If you got the following message today - then you are already > on the list: > > There are 60 subscribers to GALINA-L and 16 subscribers to GALINA-D. > > If you did not - then you can sub to this list - as you wish to - > for it will be the chat list - so that several of the items recently > posted to this list will fit better there instead of here. > > To sub - the standard way you sub to any Rootsweb list: > > galina-l@rootsweb.com - list mode > galina-d@rootsweb.com - digest mode > > More items as I dig through my mail backlog. > > Tim > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Did your county's courthouse ever meet with a disaster?? > Check out GAGenWeb's List and Research Tips at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/cchelp/courthouses.htm >

I finally got back on line this PM. My ISP 'forgot' to renew their trust certificate and thus got disconnected from the rest of the Internet. They got that fixed sometime today (Monday). So now I've another back log of mail. In an effort to restore this list as a business list only - where announcements are made, items that effect everyone and the like, I've been asked by several CCs to acquire, start, a chat list. We already have such but it is highly under-utilized. There are folks there that I don't know from Adam's house cat and they can remain if they can stand the chat. This list will be voluntary only - it is not required. So go there and chat your faces off! For new subscribers there it will be limited to GAGenWeb Project members. If you got the following message today - then you are already on the list: There are 60 subscribers to GALINA-L and 16 subscribers to GALINA-D. If you did not - then you can sub to this list - as you wish to - for it will be the chat list - so that several of the items recently posted to this list will fit better there instead of here. To sub - the standard way you sub to any Rootsweb list: galina-l@rootsweb.com - list mode galina-d@rootsweb.com - digest mode More items as I dig through my mail backlog. Tim

Hi, I forgot to mention this and share these pieces of email with the members who have been here for a bit as I thought one or more of them might know who sent the the following emails to me a few days to a week ago. Did not bother to add the exact day as I sent that one to aol and also the isp so they could trace it and perhaps take some action. This was addressed to my gholback_1999@yahoo.com had a little attachment and it was intended to cause some problems for me and the pc. Any one possibly know who might have sent it? I wonder? Then note the one below it. This one was sent from a Sulli Sullivan by proxy and actually came from an aol proxy address. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that is not very nice. Just thought I would share this with any of you who are receiving the same type of hate mail. Is coded and when the letters are played around with really says if you solve the cryptogram a hidden message coded. And older person would not have done something like this only those not yet in their fifties as when you get to be that old you leave childish ways behind you and act like an adult and not like spoiled children. It is so sad when people resort to this type of hate mail. I B U A S O B IBUA = I BET YOU ARE SOB = (well you know that one I am sure) 1910 = turn it around 01b1 = owe one - be one rrbugholback_1999@ aol.com My hubby left..._1910 iqnvsop Fri 02/21 3k Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:49:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Sully Sullivan" <sullisullivan2003@yahoo.com> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Enough why was this on this list To: gholback_1999@yahoo.com Run Gloria to your nearest pharma-psychiatrist to be put on some drug that will help you. You are the rudest and most obnoxious person I have ever met. Your pseudo intellect is laughable and your class is non-existent. You need the happy drug Prozac or perhaps lithium. You are one disturbed and unbalanced person. Better double up and give some to that husband of yours too. Oh keep up the mud slinging and I will let loose! There are some tall tales to be told on you. Sulli John, is such a nice man and a very kind man and he certainly has done nothing to make anyone angry. So the hate is just for the sake of hating me or others who do not agree with the person or persons who is responsible for sending this mail. Wonder if anyone else is receiving anything like the ones above? If you are you able to trace the proxy address back to the original isp? Gloria

> I've not been clear about the "copyright" which is recommended that we > include on the pages. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this too. I've heard some that say that I am wrong to put "Copyright 2003 by Bettie Wood" & that something is by XXGenWeb Project. I hardly think that is right, so sometimes I just put copyright 2003 & leave it at that. If they want to use something from web pages I maintain, they should ask first no matter who it says the copyrighted is by. That's just common courtesy. I like to make what I call "Contact" pages. This contains all the submitters donations, & their latest email addresses: http://www.rootsweb.com/~garichmo/Contacts.html When their email address changes, I only have to change on this one spot. It has worked out great, & I have heard that it has helped cut down on their spam. It makes it a little bit "harder" for people to contact them, but no one breaks a sweat doing it this way. Of course my email address is everywhere it needs to be, & my spam is as strong as ever!! LOL Jimmy Epperson sent me his java script thingey he uses, but I never have figured how to use it. Bettie <><

On 24 Feb 2003 at 18:43, Claire Molloy wrote to the list when she meant to reply in private! Sorry about that. Claire

On 24 Feb 2003 at 17:10, TooFem@aol.com wrote: > For those of you who do private researching for clients - will you > please share with me how much you charge - is it per hour? Per > project? Etc. I charge by the hour, as do my colleagues, but I don't think it would help you to know what I (or they) charge - it depends upon your level of experience, where you are located and, to a lesser extent, how much need to make a living. I know researchers who charge $10 an hour and researchers who charge $60 an hour. In general the lower fees are charged by hobbyists making a few extra bucks, but I do know of full time researchers who charge very low rates also. Remember charging $10 an hour doesn't equal earning $10 an hour, there are many hidden costs to running a business. I work in Washington, DC (mostly at the National Archives, but also LoC, DAR Library etc.), and have 10 years experience as a professional researcher, but I still get less per hour than the senior associates, and rightly so! Those guys know everything and I am still learning from them. Oh yes, it also depends what you specialize in. Which comes back to experience again. I haven't yet chosen a specialty - I just love to research - when I do chose I will apply for certification and raise my rates! lol I can't imagine charging by the project. How would you do that? 4 generations for $x? Hourly is much simpler for you and your clients. We set a minimum of 4 hours for a new project, but we do individual record searches (census, military records, passenger lists, etc.) at a per record price. Most people I know have a similar set-up. > Do any of you list pros in your area on your county page? I don't. My pages are hosted by my employer and I wouldn't feel comfortable advertising "the competition" but not myself or my employer. At the same time I thought it would be a little tacky to advertise myself, especially since I am not a local researcher. Sorry I went on so long, but I love my job, and it's great so see someone just starting out. If I can help in anyway, feel free to write. Claire claire@genealogy-quest.com CC Baldwin Co., GAGenWeb

For those of you who do private researching for clients - will you please share with me how much you charge - is it per hour? Per project? Etc. Do any of you list pros in your area on your county page? If you would rather not reply to the group with figures - please just send me a private email. Thanks MK Harrison <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">mkharrison.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with - stone clubs. -Albert Einstein

> For those of you who do private researching for clients - will you please > share with me how much you charge - is it per hour? Per project? Etc. That's an interesting question. I'd like to be able to offer names, etc. to those that visit my sites & sometimes ask me about this.. The closest thing I've had to that is a lady that has a Bed & breakfast just for genealogists! > Do any of you list pros in your area on your county page? This is what I usually list on my "For Sale" section **The USGenWeb Project, & this county coordinator, do not guarantee the contents of such research materials and/or the expertise of any professional researchers.** I hope this helps you some how. Bettie <><

So much has been going on behind the scenes with trying to get some microfiche copied (have solved that problem) and other things such as helping with lookups for the Ben Hill and Irwin County Volunteers I have not properly welcomed all of you who are brand new County Coordinators. Well again, WELCOME. Glad you are a part of the GAGenWeb Project and if there is anything that I can do to help you just let me know. Now, let me offer some information that might help you during your first few days, weeks and months with managing your pages. If you have any problems that wonderful guardian angel better known as your Regional Coordinator is always there to help and guide you. She/he is not there in a judgmental way. Your County Coordinator will help you to get your page into compliance and sometimes the former CC (county coordinator) may not have had the county pages in compliance with the GAGenWeb Project Website Requirements. Not really difficult at all and there are guides on line to help you as you check you page to make sure it has all the required links back to the GAGenWeb Project. The Table for the GA Counties and also the GAGenWeb Archives. But this is where that RC (regional coordinator) can and will help you. As for the folks with the GAGenWeb, some of us have been here a very long time, Tim Stowell, our State Coordinator is one who has been and has given so much to the project. He is always there for us when we need him and his leadership is and has always been a beacon light. So he is always there for you when you can not contact your RC or have a problem that only he could answer. But do go over to the main page and go to the helpful links for CCs and see what all there. Maybe some of the other senior County Coordinators who have been with the GAGenWeb will offer some additional advise for getting your pages up and running. Gloria Holback, Ben Hill and Irwin Counties

> I have also become very concerned about my role as RC. I like to work with > CCs and help them with their pages and their projects. I do not like being > in the role of "judging" CCs..... and ever since the guidelines were passed > last year, I have wanted to see a Grievance Committee set up to assume that > role. Thank you for letting us all know that there are some of you, like me, that have the best interests of GAGenWeb, & it's future in mind. Bettie <><

Good point Virginia!!! Hopefully I can help somewhat as a lot has changed concerning hosting sites and copyright law since USGenWeb was started. The design copyright of a county page remains with the former CC. This includes page layouts, colors used, graphics and other html language and programs such as java script. Control of the raw data or content copyright stays with the submitter even if that is the same as the CC. By virtue of this copyright, any and all data can be removed from a USGenWeb County site at any time at the request of the submitter. This is the basic principle of copyright law. CC's must show who submitted the data to respect their copyright. The USGenWeb project is just the same as any other organization or business utilizing the internet to publish information on the web. It cannot write it's own rules concerning copyrighted materials and keep information that submitters donate without providing upfront disclosure that submitters are giving up their copyrighted information by submitting or sharing it with a USGenWeb county site. This is called 'terms of service". In absence of this disclosure, the only thing that a data submitter has obviously allowed USGenWeb to do is the massaging of this data visually for displaying on a web page. That's it!!! And, this is not the same thing as assuming 'copyright' of data. Everyone needs to read Yahoo's "terms of service" and see what happens when anyone posts anything to a yahoo site. Go to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ and scroll down abt 1/2 down the page. Yahoo takes over the full copyright privileges if anything in the form of written data is submitted to yahoo!!! Not just the rights to display that information in a web page, but to further reproduce that data in other media formats..such as CDs...which they can turn around and sell or put in a database and charge access to that database, etc. The rights of data submitters to USGenWeb Project must be protected by CCs of the USGenWeb Project. This is the reason why USGenWeb guidelines have stated that a copyright blub must be on all USGenWeb pages so no one tries to steal USGenWeb info; but, that doesn't mean that USGenWeb has taken over anyone's individual copyrights. To protect our raw data, this also means that a CC cannot upload their county pages to just any server that will lay claim to it by their "terms of service". It is imperative that all CCs read a web hosting site's "terms of service" BEFORE uploading their county pages!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING...any county site uploaded today to yahoo, angelfire, msn, homestead, aol, or FTM, even your local ISP's free web space are jeopardizing USGenWeb data submissions' copyrights. This is also true for personal genealogy sites uploaded to these places!!! This is also true when uploading genealogy data to most message boards!! This is also true when uploading an individual's FTW file to FTM. For help in locating great places to host your county site that avoid these problems AND have no popups, visit: http://www.ancestraldesigns.com/designtips/ and click on "Finding a Home". C.A.T. Carol Ann Tindell, Blue Ridge, GA CC for Fannin, Dawson & Old Walton Cos., GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crilley" <varcsix@hot.rr.com> To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:21 AM Subject: [GAGEN] Credit for work > As our counties continue to change hands, it would be a good thing to be > sure that proper credit is given for work that has been done. > > Many times it is by an individual contributor and most of the time, I think > these are documented. > > However, if the CC does the work, out of modesty he may not always state > that on the page. Then when a new CC "assumes" the page, it is passed > along, but the person who actually did it is sometimes lost. > > Sometimes even the "previous" CC's name is lost and forgotten. > > I've not been clear about the "copyright" which is recommended that we > include on the pages. > > Should this copyright continue to say the original person on the page where > he did the data? > > Or does the new CC place their name on all the pages? > > Virginia Crilley > > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Do you have a suggestion to include in our taglines? If so, please write > GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com > >

1) I want everyone to understand that what I am stating here is my personal opinion as an RC and as a CC --- it is not an official statement from the Council of GAGenWeb. 2) I don't want to begin a train of responses --- so if you want to make a comment, please address it to me personally or any other Council member privately....or post it on one of the "discussion" lists. Over the past several weeks, there has been much "business" discussed on the Council list (GAGENWEB-L). There has been a definite difference of opinion on most matters. One of the differences is about sending information to the CC list (GAGen). Several of us view ourselves as representatives of the CCs within our region as well as those throughout the state. We would like to see every vote made public so that every CC will know who is voting and how each person voted on each issue. Additionally we would like to be able to give progress reports to you so you know what is being discussed and can provide us feedback -- much like you are able to talk to your government representatives. I have also become very concerned about my role as RC. I like to work with CCs and help them with their pages and their projects. I do not like being in the role of "judging" CCs..... and ever since the guidelines were passed last year, I have wanted to see a Grievance Committee set up to assume that role. This Grievance committee (in my view) should be made up equally of CCs and RCs.... and probably be elected by the CCs to assure that everyone has a chance to select people that they feel will be fair to all concerned. Until some agreement is established, I just wanted all of you to know how I as one individual RC felt. Please --- don't send comments to this list --- this list is not meant to be one of extended discussions. I just felt that something needed to be said to assure CCs that the GAGenWeb Council is taking our role seriously. Virginia Crilley

2/24/03 - 2:03 a.m. I have spoken with Tim tonight and he has had ISP problems since Friday. Tim Stowell can RECEIVE [emphasis] email, but can not send email. This is a System-wide problem with this ISP, and estimated time of repair is "sometime tomorrow". Email from Tim will be forthcoming upon email restoration. Hope all of you have a great week. Best regards, Brenda Pierce