In a message dated 4/16/03 12:56:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mannannan@maclyr.com writes: > Freedom requires vigilance on the part of the people. > Vigilance against the infringements on our freedom imposed by the > Government. And being a part of a project requires the same vigilance. Why have guidelines if you are not going to follow them? Why have an election if you aren't going to vote? I think a part of the new guidelines should be that the voter list is kept published at all times on the main GaGenWeb website. The excuse of email harvesting is not valid since they are all posted anyway on the Georgia Selection List and on our webpages and/or archive sits. Donna Parrish

In a message dated 4/16/03 12:43:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mannannan@maclyr.com writes: > I believe that everyone > was shocked and outraged with the email that she sent. It was a private email and not sent to the list. I wondered why they delinked her cousin over the email? Donna Parrish

Freedom is NOT free. We pay for our freedom with our most precious commodity - our lives and the lives of those around us. Many of us have served in the armed services of this country. Some of us have been shot at, some have been shot down. Some have been held as Prisoners of War. Some have given an arm or a leg. Some have given their LIVES. For those who have not seen military duty, perhaps you know someone who has - your dad, your grandfather, your uncle, your brother, your cousin, your sister, your aunt. Too many of us have had a relative give their LIFE for this country and for freedom. This is nothing new. William Wallace gave his life for freedom around 1300. Jesus Christ spread His Arms on the Cross and died almost 2000 years ago for our freedom from sin (for those who believe, and no offense is meant to those who do not). Freedom is not FREE. Freedom requires vigilance on the part of the people. Vigilance against the infringements on our freedom imposed by the Government. Do you honestly believe we are FREE? Take a shotgun and walk through the streets of any major city in America. Do you think we are truly FREE? Refuse to pay your taxes. When I was a kid, this was a FREE country. Today, it is a mere shadow of freedom. Richard On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:22:44 -0500, jimmy wrote > Free??? Yes, freedom is free to me.... free because those that > have made the ultimate sacrifice for over 200 years have freely > given me (us) the freedom I > (we) enjoy. I haven't done a thing to earn it, just lucky to > receive it! > > Collectively as a nation, I agree with you... it is not free.... but > as an individual it is. > > jimmy > > Brenda Pierce wrote: > > > Free? No, voting does not make it free, because " Freedom is not FREE" > > Every single person that has lost their life either in a battle or by being > > in the wrong place during an attack, has paid the price for freedom, I don't > > think any of the parents or siblings or wives would say that it is FREE. > > The pain and suffering by the families is in itself a horrible price to pay. > > > > The fact is that Freedom of choice is the freedom to choose if you do or do > > not want to vote, if you choose to do or not to do something, the fact that > > someone chooses not to do something is not always an indicator of whether or > > not they are "uninterested", it does say state one thing .... "THEY DID NOT > > VOTE" ..... that is their right, that is the freedom to choose or not to > > choose. > > Freedom is about choices and the right to choose whether or not you will > > participate in something. So please don't trample on others FREEDOM - their > > freedoms ARE freedom of choice .... > > > > Vivian wrote: > > > > Even sadder: I guess a lot of folks don't see that voting helps keep it > > free. > > > > Vivian Price Saffold > > Meriwether County > > > > 3570 Hildon Circle > > Chamblee, GA 30341 > > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > > Did your county's courthouse ever meet with a disaster?? > > Check out GAGenWeb's List and Research Tips at: > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/cchelp/courthouses.htm > > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > > USGenWeb's motto is - Volunteers dedicated to free, online information. > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Genealogy research usually begins with our great-grandparents to preserve > the privacy of 'living persons'. If you encounter a person searching > their birth parents, the need to go to the area on the web that deals > with just this type of research. Please refer them to: > http://www.adoption.org

Derek and Carol, I respect your opinions as expressed herein. I ask you to give me the right to be wrong (a right which I freely give, as well <grins>). I agree that the CC in question had the right to a hearing, to file a grievance. However, she chose not to. As such, she abbrogated her own right to a fair hearing. She did not exercise all of her remedies available under the Georgia Guidelines. She, herself, chose to surrender that right by not invoking it. Perhaps she did not know. I can not speak to what she knew or did not know. What I can speak to is that she did not, to my knowledge, seek to file a grievance. Nonetheless, her situation was discussed among the RC's, although not officially. At the risk of violating confidences, I believe that everyone was shocked and outraged with the email that she sent. Richard On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:27:51 -0300, Derek Nichols wrote > ---------- > >From: Carol C-H <cch@netdoor.com> > >To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Yes, no, present OOPs / voting > >Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2003, 1:17 PM > > > > >At 01:51 AM 4/15/2003, Tim Stowell wrote: > >> >Although I despise swearing, and occasionally slip myself, it isn't against > >> >the law to swear. Should someone be reprimanded for swearing to a fellow > >> >Volunteer in this Project, yes. Should it mean their dismissal, no. There > >> >needs to be some middle ground. > >> > >>True as far as swearing goes - but to sexually harrass is. > > > >Tim - I had not heard this part of it from anyone until your mention above > >- and this could potentially shed an entirely new light on the situation - > >can you please elaborate and clairfy this? > > Even if it were true, is not that person entitled to all rights and > an enquiry before dismissal. Should they not be treated as innocent until > proven guilty, as the laws of the land demand? > > I in no way condone such behaviour as sexual harassment. However at > the end of the day a dismissal without fair hearing on such an > important issue is NOT justice. > > Derek Nichols > Echols County, GA > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Genealogy research usually begins with our great-grandparents to preserve > the privacy of 'living persons'. If you encounter a person searching > their birth parents, the need to go to the area on the web that deals > with just this type of research. Please refer them to: > http://www.adoption.org

WOW! That is wonderful. And you want my bio, too? Let's see, I was President of the United States from 1981 to 1989 (and YOU thought it was Reagan, huh?). Richard On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:29:58 -0500, jimmy wrote > Hi Folks > > I have updated the CC pics - No you cannot write Ripleys.... > > Please look and make sure the info is correct for your county. If there > is more than one person associated then there will be multiple links > for that county for each person. > > If you don't have your photo or bio on there and want to add it, > send it to me. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaoconee/GAGenWeb/CCPics/ > > Thanks > jimmy > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Do you have a suggestion to include in our taglines? If so, please write > GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com

---------- >From: Carol C-H <cch@netdoor.com> >To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Yes, no, present OOPs / voting >Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2003, 1:17 PM > >At 01:51 AM 4/15/2003, Tim Stowell wrote: >> >Although I despise swearing, and occasionally slip myself, it isn't against >> >the law to swear. Should someone be reprimanded for swearing to a fellow >> >Volunteer in this Project, yes. Should it mean their dismissal, no. There >> >needs to be some middle ground. >> >>True as far as swearing goes - but to sexually harrass is. > >Tim - I had not heard this part of it from anyone until your mention above >- and this could potentially shed an entirely new light on the situation - >can you please elaborate and clairfy this? Even if it were true, is not that person entitled to all rights and an enquiry before dismissal. Should they not be treated as innocent until proven guilty, as the laws of the land demand? I in no way condone such behaviour as sexual harassment. However at the end of the day a dismissal without fair hearing on such an important issue is NOT justice. Derek Nichols Echols County, GA

"Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment." http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-sex.html

Writing this is difficult. I have read the messages from this list sporadically over the past few weeks because this situation in GAGenWeb is painful to watch. I like and respect Tim and have always considered him a friend. He has been a totally excellent SC to me, and IMHO, GAGenWeb is in the good shape it is in today primarily because of his leadership. I also like and respect Keith, and it hurts to see the animosity that has evolved between two men who were once such a good team. That said, I do not believe the guidelines were followed in the dismissal of some of the CCs. While I do not like the current guidelines - I think they are flawed particularly in respect to the power structure (IMHO, RCs should be elected by CCs in the area, rather than being appointed by the SC, and there should be a regularly scheduled election of SCs and RCs with no limitation on the number of terms a person is eligible to serve) - I do think the CURRENT guidelines should be followed WITHOUT EXCEPTION. If exceptions are to be made, that should be spelled out in the guidelines, and they should apply equally to all. BUT ............ is failure to abide by the guidelines in these instances sufficient grounds to want to unseat our SC? In the final analysis, that is, IMHO, the question we all must answer before we vote. I am tired of seeing people I respect and like attacked and hurt - at times by other folks I respect and like. I am tired of having posts from this list come into my mailbox that I do not want to read because reading them sometimes messes up my attitude for hours. It is too easy to type something and send it - we do not have to see how much it might hurt - we can send it and forget it. We do not have to know the hours of emotional pain our words might cause - or in some instances the offline damage that might result at a place of work or research. And WE SEND IT TO A PUBLIC LIST!!! I would like to see us just have SC and RC elections in state NOW - FWIW, I think Tim would be re-elected SC. I would like to see us totally review and partially revise the guidelines asap. I would like to see us do our criticizing in private, and do our public posting with the rule we all grew up with in the Deep South - "If you can't say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all." Carol (discouraged and sad) Carol C-H <cch@netdoor.com> http://www2.netdoor.com/~cch/

I took her point as whoever sent the quote was passing judgment. Which was not appropriate. MK Harrison <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">mkharrison.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with - stone clubs. -Albert Einstein Copyright © 2003

> I personally don't consider AHGP a USGenWeb Project a wannabe. It is > just another repository for information with NO politics, BASIC > guidelines, and NO fighting either! > > > Kim Did I say that? No. I said AGHP or ALHN and other groups who wannabe USGenWeb projects. >>From: Tim Stowell <tstowell@chattanooga.net> >>Reply-To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com >>To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: RE: [GAGEN] data placement >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 02:14:06 -0400 >> >> >>While we're at it - consider AGHP or ALHN and other wannabe USGenWeb >>projects. >> >>Tim >> >>At 02:34 PM 4/9/03 -0400, you wrote: >> >Shall we include the two census projects in here, too and contemplate >> >there are 4 possible places for census files to be on-line? >> > >> >Connie >> >Acc: Heard ------------------------------------------------------via webmail---- Tim Stowell tstowell@chattanooga.net

> In a message dated 4/15/03 2:25:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > tstowell@chattanooga.net writes: >> The RC replied privately to her with >> a Bible verse > > I give you the same Bible verse. > Revelation 21:8 > But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the > sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all > liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This > is the second death." Your point being? ------------------------------------------------------via webmail---- Tim Stowell tstowell@chattanooga.net

---------- >From: "kim gordon" <kimeye1@hotmail.com> >To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Ok, now I am mad >Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2003, 9:54 AM > >Tim wrote: > >>No it really isn't stupid to have material in more than one place. The >>Internet is all about redundancy. The more places material appears the >>better - for if one server is down or dies most likely another source is >>still up. Its a spreading out of the eggs instead of keeping them all >>together in one basket. >which is most fortunate as the data has mushroomed. >> >>Tim > >So then why so you speak of AHGP and ALHN like you do? It's good that the Lions, or Kinsmen, or the numerous Heart Foundations, or ... don't all have that attitude. There's room in this world for everyone, and it's time people learn that. And I'd rather not have my leaders attacking fellow volunteers of any stripe. Derek Nichols Echols County, GA

Hi Folks I have updated the CC pics - No you cannot write Ripleys.... Please look and make sure the info is correct for your county. If there is more than one person associated then there will be multiple links for that county for each person. If you don't have your photo or bio on there and want to add it, send it to me. http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaoconee/GAGenWeb/CCPics/ Thanks jimmy

This response is regarding Tim's posting about the "alleged" competition between the GAGenWeb Archives and the County pages. Linda Lewis, the National Archives Manager, asked that I share this with all of you, lest anyone have a misunderstanding regarding the archives. I think all of you know by now that I try very hard not to be involved in the messages which are accusatory in nature. I feel that the Archives and the County Pages are team players in GAGenWeb and that we should treat each other with respect and cooperate whenever we can. I never like to embarrass anyone on this List for any reason. I have repeatedly asked that anyone who has any problem with the Archives, give me the complete information, and I will follow up. When I don't receive pertinent information on something that is said within an e-mail, then I assume there is no basis for the complaint or allegation. Linda Lewis has stated the same thing many times. If something is done that is wrong, then she wants to hear about it as well. The main reason I have not answered each allegation that has been made in recent weeks against the Archives is that we've rehashed the same discussion numerous times. There has not been any concrete evidence to support any of the comments made against the Archives. All of you CCs who understand and work with the Archives, already know the system and its benefits. Those CCs who do not want to have any part at all with the Archives are certainly free to do so and I respect your reasons. The Guidelines state this: #13 b) The site has not been updated with genealogical data within nine (9) months. (Some consideration may be given to sites for counties less than 100 years old. Also, new links to GAGenWeb Archives files, pertaining to the county in question, may be considered an update.) http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/guidelines.htm The more people working to get information on-line for Georgia the more researchers will be helped. And to me that is always the bottom line --- how can we help researchers the most? At 04:44 PM 4/9/03 -0400, Michele wrote: >The Archives and the CC pages are both part of the USGenWeb (GAGenWeb) project. > >It is not a competition nor a race to see who can get the best or the most info. Tim's response to Michele: Actually it is a competition and a race within the Archives to see who can get the most info online and it has been going on for several years. Tim Linda's response: >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:09:36 -0400 >From: Linda Lewis <cityslic@ix.netcom.com> > > >For the record... TX won the data contest! LOL > >We had a friendly competition between the file managers, when we were >just starting out. I initiated the "contest" to activate the fm's more. > >We used to tease each other when one would go ahead of the others by a >few bytes or so. > >SD had the #1 spot for a long time, then LA jumped ahead, followed by >TX, who has remained there. They worked for months converting to ASCII >text huge databases placed online for free by the state government of >Texas. LA's former file manager urged her county fm's to put individual >obits online with the Archives Notice on each one (the Notice was larger >than the obit text in most cases <g>), to get their stats up. > >This was all in fun at the time. We are too busy with the data coming in >to "compete" (although I secretly watch Mike's NC stats since they and >VA keep switching from 7th to 8th. LOL!!) > >So, to all those "Al-Jazeera" types that spin and twist what we are >doing in the Archives, give it up... the war is over! > >Permission is granted to forward this to any list. Virginia, please >forward to your state list. :) > >Linda Virginia Crilley

In a message dated 4/15/03 1:49:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tstowell@chattanooga.net writes: > As the President said in the last couple of days - each situation presents > itself to be dealt with its own response. It does not mean that the whole > project or persons in the project would do the same. Oye Vey Gevalt - lets not even open this can of worms by quoting George Bush. MK Harrison <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">mkharrison.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with - stone clubs. -Albert Einstein Copyright © 2003

Free??? Yes, freedom is free to me.... free because those that have made the ultimate sacrifice for over 200 years have freely given me (us) the freedom I (we) enjoy. I haven't done a thing to earn it, just lucky to receive it! Collectively as a nation, I agree with you... it is not free.... but as an individual it is. jimmy Brenda Pierce wrote: > Free? No, voting does not make it free, because " Freedom is not FREE" > Every single person that has lost their life either in a battle or by being > in the wrong place during an attack, has paid the price for freedom, I don't > think any of the parents or siblings or wives would say that it is FREE. > The pain and suffering by the families is in itself a horrible price to pay. > > The fact is that Freedom of choice is the freedom to choose if you do or do > not want to vote, if you choose to do or not to do something, the fact that > someone chooses not to do something is not always an indicator of whether or > not they are "uninterested", it does say state one thing .... "THEY DID NOT > VOTE" ..... that is their right, that is the freedom to choose or not to > choose. > Freedom is about choices and the right to choose whether or not you will > participate in something. So please don't trample on others FREEDOM - their > freedoms ARE freedom of choice .... > > Vivian wrote: > > Even sadder: I guess a lot of folks don't see that voting helps keep it > free. > > Vivian Price Saffold > Meriwether County > > 3570 Hildon Circle > Chamblee, GA 30341 > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Did your county's courthouse ever meet with a disaster?? > Check out GAGenWeb's List and Research Tips at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/cchelp/courthouses.htm > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb's motto is - Volunteers dedicated to free, online information.

Tim wrote: >That is true - yet 60 - 80% of your fellow citizens opt not to vote in most >elections around the country. While you may not take it as an option for >yourself - the vast majority often does. And usually that 60 - 80% are the ones who only read the headlines. Sit on their sofas and kvetsh. Don't volunteer. And aren't positive contributors to our society. Hmmmmm is that right? only 20 - 40% of us are positive contributors to our society? Seems a bit high, doesn't it? When I am out and about and I look around..... I am more than convinced I do not want to be what is considered "normal" or "average" in our society. Belonging to the majority doesn't look very appealing. MK Harrison <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">mkharrison.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with - stone clubs. -Albert Einstein Copyright © 2003

At 01:51 AM 4/15/2003, Tim Stowell wrote: > >Although I despise swearing, and occasionally slip myself, it isn't against > >the law to swear. Should someone be reprimanded for swearing to a fellow > >Volunteer in this Project, yes. Should it mean their dismissal, no. There > >needs to be some middle ground. > >True as far as swearing goes - but to sexually harrass is. Tim - I had not heard this part of it from anyone until your mention above - and this could potentially shed an entirely new light on the situation - can you please elaborate and clairfy this? Thanks! Carol

In a message dated 4/15/03 2:04:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tstowell@chattanooga.net writes: > While we're at it - consider AGHP or ALHN and other wannabe USGenWeb projects. Yes, you really should consider ALHN and AHGP. They are two (2) more ways for people to reach genealogy data. Everyone has a different prospective on how to present material. You will find many of the same volunteers in one or more of the projects. In addition to the three mentioned above, there are other projects that cover every county in the state. See the links on this page http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaalhn/links/galinks.html As far as "wannabe" maybe they are there because the "don'twannabe".

At 10:20 AM 4/15/2003, TooFem@aol.com wrote: >When I am out and about and I look around..... I am more than convinced I do >not want to be what is considered "normal" or "average" in our society. >Belonging to the majority doesn't look very appealing. I totally agree, MK. Carol