Does that include Federal Census Records? If so then people should not be using the LDS to obtain film but should be told about this and that way not be violating rules of the LDS....if these are public records such as census and such why do we then get into trouble because we choose to go to the LDS versus a local library or to order direct from the nat archives...I have always loved working with the folks at the LDS libraries and just would go there to do film reading and abstracting records...when any of the public records were mentioned in a report to a client or such the the Church was always given complete credit for copying the materials and such...as directed in the "how to cite sources" that the Nat. Genea. Soc...suggested to be used...and if I posted something in a book or online I also cited sources...I never realized that they forbid us to use such as the census records...only books and materials which were actually copyrighted by an author/compiler or such...but if I am wrong in telling others please correct me...and I will not ever again suggest anyone use the LDS church for transcriptions/abstractions but suggest they order the film from another source. Thank You, God Bless, Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Kathryn Kozy" <mkozy@attglobal.net> To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Re: Commercial use of the County sites... > Gloria - > > I'll just throw this out once again for those who may have joined the > project after the last time I posted.... > > Data contained in LDS microfilms is done through a copyright agreement with > the LDS Church's Family History Dept. and the entity that holds the > originals. These are NOT considered in the "public domain" as such. In > order to extract, abstract, index, etc. any of these records (even if they > are just court records from your county, marriages, wills, etc.), you must > first get permission from the LDS Family History Dept.'s Copyright Office. > They are generally more than willing to give it, but it is a necessary step > to help prevent the FHL from legal problems should a particular entity not > give permission for further indexing or some such thing that we as patrons > reading the film (for personal research reasons) are not aware of. The LAST > thing any of would want to do is jeopardize the FHL's reputation or > standing amongst those whose good graces we all stand in need of (i.e., > county court houses and other repositories/donors of these original > records) or put them in any legal trouble. > > Here is the information I received from Kathy Warburton of the Family > History Dept.'s Copyright Office several months back: > > <start> > Before I respond to your request, I must make you aware of some policies of > the Family and Church History Department concerning appropriate uses of > materials in our collection. Due to the increasing publication of these > materials on the Internet, we are having to become more strict in enforcing > these policies to keep the department from being in violation of our > contractual agreements with the donors of the records in our collection. > > Records held in the collection of the Family History Library and Family > History Centers are intended for non-commercial personal family history > research only. Use of the records beyond the scope of non-commercial > personal family history research may violate contractual agreements with > the records custodians and/or copyright laws. > > In order to be sure that we are in compliance with contractual obligations > and copyright laws, the following uses of the records in our collection are > not permitted: > > 1. Creating indexes or extracts of multiple entries or of entire record sets, > 2. Copying or reproduction of multiple pages (beyond the limits of "fair > use.") > > For certain materials for which the Genealogical Society of Utah or the > Family History Department possesses unrestricted rights of use and > publication, an officer of the Society may approve indexing projects in > exchange for unrestricted rights to use and publish the resulting indexes. > To obtain such approval, please provide full details in writing, including > your name and address, the author and title of the materials to be indexes > along with all film numbers proposed to be indexed and a full description > lf the purpose of the index and any proposed publication (including > publication to the Internet) to: > > President, The Genealogical Society of Utah > 50 East North Temple Street, 5th Floor > Salt Lake City UT 84150 > > Please keep this policy in mind before beginning any indexing or extraction > projects involving microfilms from our collection or before posting such > projects that you may have already completed. A notice of this policy has > been sent to all family history centers and should now be posted in the > centers. We would appreciate your cooperation in ensuring that the > Department is able to comply with its contractual agreements with the > donors of these materials. > > I wish you every success in your family history efforts. If you have any > questions, please contact me. > > Sincerely, > Kathy Warburton > Copyright Coordinator > Family and Church History Department > The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints > Phone: 801-240-2049 > Fax: 801-240-2494 > Email: fhd-copyright@ldschurch.org > <end> > > I hope this clears up any misconceptions or confusion any of ya'll have > about their policies. If not, feel free to contact Ms. Warburton! > > Thanks, > > Mary Kathryn Kozy > mkozy@attglobal.net > Mitchell Co., GAGenWeb CC > > At 07:52 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >If each CC ordered one film per month...about $3.60....from a local LDS > >Church/FHL and transcribed the indexes for Wills, Marriages, Warranty Deeds, > >Warrantor and Warrantee indexes they would in a years time have a multitude > >of material on their site that would allow the visitors to our pages find > >their ancestors name and then the person could order a copy of that deed, > >will, marriage record. No professional would be needed to search those > >records (and I worked as a professional genealogist for some years). No > >search fee would be charged for looking up records by clerks..as the index > >would give each researcher what they needed to order a copy of those > >records. There is no need to abstract or transcribe the records. If just > >the indexes were done that would be a wonderful gift to the genealogy > >community. Now why haven't I done that? Well when I first adopted GA > >counties I was also preparing and researching to write a book which grew > >into what could now be two books about the Lumbee Indian Tribe and all of > >the families. For over ten years I ordered "all" of the microfilmed public > >records for Robeson County, NC and also records from Bladen, Sampson, > >Lenoir, Guilford, Cumberland, and many other NC Counties, and then went up > >into VA and ordered VA filmed records and then made several trips to the > >areas to search in the courthouses and the State Archives to find more that > >might have missed being filmed. So that took a primary until about eight > >months ago when I felt I had gone as far with the research as I would go in > >my lifetime. Will leave more for others to pick up where I left off. But > >now I have started working on the GA Counties that I host...With Ben Hill > >the records have not been filmed as of yet...but I will make a trip up there > >within this year to copy those indexes...Luckily Irwin County records have > >been microfilmed and are available..and a cousin has already done a lot of > >those transcriptions which he will be providing and what he doesn't provide > >I will do.. The Ben Hill County Newspapers have all been microfilmed and I > >plan soon to order my first of many films and those I will purchase at about > >$24- $28.00 per film..forget correct amount...and I do have a film reader > >and a fiche reader at home...my files are full of copies of original > >documents from VA and NC records but very few of GA records and that is > >because when I began hosting the GA Counties I was in the middle of another > >labor of love which is now completed and my time and attention will be on > >the GA sites..but any of us can take the time to place the indexes online > >and then no one will need to have a professional go into those records. What > >I propose we do will take years to accomplish and there is an occasional > >need for a professional and they get in touch with us or a person will > >contact us and request the name of a professional in which ever case I will > >be happy to provide that person with the name of someone who can help but as > >for the County Pages I believe with all my heart that they are not for > >commercial use...a special page with commercial options in research...that > >is fine...but allow the viewer the option of going there is that is what > >they want and not misrepresenting links and such by just sending them there. > >As someone who did make money at one time from professional genealogy I > >never took a GA commission...but only in NC, PA, and SC and WV....just my > >principals and what I feel was the right thing to do...with GA research I > >did it for free in all cases....a lot of our visitors are elderly folks with > >limited incomes or disabled people and those who have pcs but can't afford > >the extras, and all are unable to travel... those are the ones who benefit > >the most from our project..Can we be proud of our selves if we send them to > >a commercial site thinking they are going to find real records that are free > >of charge only to find they have arrived at a paying site that they don't > >have the money to subscribe to...sorry I can't do that...But that is just my > >opinion....but free is what the project is all about and free is how it > >should remain...Gloria..... > > > > > > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > >USGenWeb's motto is - Volunteers dedicated to free, online information. > > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Do you have a suggestion to include in our taglines? If so, please write > GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com > >

Some questions for all and how you interpret the wording in the statement below....please read and then see who you believe is the submitter who is giving the Archives permanent use of the materials mentioned... is a person who has surveyed a cemetery sends the material to the Archivist for that county and then the Archivist/County Archivist submits the material to the Archives...then the Archivist would be the submitter... It sounds like from the wording on the statement below that the person who "submits" it to the archives, who is a member of the archives becomes the submitter and is giving the permission for permanent use. But normal interpretation of "submitter" is the one who did the survey. But through a slight-of-hand the submitter has becomes the person who placed it with the county records located in the archives, not the person who did the survey or transcribing who is the actual compiler. So now please read the statements from the USGenWeb Archives Notice...and see how you read this...who is the submitter and who is it that is giving permission for the material to become the permanent property of the Archives? Any other use, including copying files to other sites, requires permission from the contributors PRIOR to uploading to the other sites. [The submitter has given permission to the USGenWeb Archives to store the file permanently for free access.]

Gloria - I don't believe it applies to things like the census (which after all, are available from NARA, online, etc.), as the LDS films aren't your only source. Potentially, you could get that data from a number of sources, and I believe that once NARA releases that information it is generally considered in the public domain (hence the 72-year release restriction). You are able to use the LDS microfilms for personal research purposes and even for clients (you, after all, are doing their personal research for them). Using the FHL's census or other records in the pursuit of data concerning your own or a client's records (and citing them as such) is not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about ordering a film and indexing whole sets of records and publishing them on our GenWeb sites. For the most part, I don't think the Family History Dept. has a problem with this. They simply ask that you check with them to verify that they don't have any agreements with the donor of the data (which are unknown to you as the user of the microfilm) that might restrict your ability to do this (or their ability to allow it under these legal agreements). Think about it... The LDS Church has gotten permission to film whole sets of records from different churches, individuals, public entities, etc. These are each individual agreements, and if nothing else, it is a courtesy that we make sure we aren't violating any of those agreements they have with the donors of the records. It was something I was not made aware of until very recently, and I doubt it was much of an issue up til now with the advent of the Internet and genealogy online. One example that might make this a little clearer is that I am currently researching my husband's lines in some Polish Catholic Church records which actually contain marriage indexes up until 1945! Some of these individuals are still living, and I doubt that should I decide at some point to index them for WorldGenWeb that they would like having their personal information indexed and plastered all over the internet. Just a guess.... It could also cause friction between the FHD and the Catholic Church should something of this nature happen, which would surely affect their ability to microfilm such record sets in the future. Again, it might not even BE a problem, but the smart thing to do would be to write to the FHD Copyright Office and check (I did this via email and had no problem...). I hope this makes sense. Please don't think the LDS Church's Family History Dept. is being miserly here. For goodness sake, they spend their member's donated money for projects like these to help all of us! Mary Kathryn Kozy Mitchell Co., GAGenWeb CC At 03:39 PM 5/22/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Does that include Federal Census Records? If so then people should not be >using the LDS to obtain film but should be told about this and that way not >be violating rules of the LDS....if these are public records such as census >and such why do we then get into trouble because we choose to go to the LDS >versus a local library or to order direct from the nat archives...I have >always loved working with the folks at the LDS libraries and just would go >there to do film reading and abstracting records...when any of the public >records were mentioned in a report to a client or such the the Church was >always given complete credit for copying the materials and such...as >directed in the "how to cite sources" that the Nat. Genea. Soc...suggested >to be used...and if I posted something in a book or online I also cited >sources...I never realized that they forbid us to use such as the census >records...only books and materials which were actually copyrighted by an >author/compiler or such...but if I am wrong in telling others please correct >me...and I will not ever again suggest anyone use the LDS church for >transcriptions/abstractions but suggest they order the film from another >source. Thank You, God Bless, Gloria >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mary Kathryn Kozy" <mkozy@attglobal.net> >To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 3:13 PM >Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Re: Commercial use of the County sites... > > > > Gloria - > > > > I'll just throw this out once again for those who may have joined the > > project after the last time I posted.... > > > > Data contained in LDS microfilms is done through a copyright agreement >with > > the LDS Church's Family History Dept. and the entity that holds the > > originals. These are NOT considered in the "public domain" as such. In > > order to extract, abstract, index, etc. any of these records (even if they > > are just court records from your county, marriages, wills, etc.), you must > > first get permission from the LDS Family History Dept.'s Copyright Office. > > They are generally more than willing to give it, but it is a necessary >step > > to help prevent the FHL from legal problems should a particular entity not > > give permission for further indexing or some such thing that we as patrons > > reading the film (for personal research reasons) are not aware of. The >LAST > > thing any of would want to do is jeopardize the FHL's reputation or > > standing amongst those whose good graces we all stand in need of (i.e., > > county court houses and other repositories/donors of these original > > records) or put them in any legal trouble. > > > > Here is the information I received from Kathy Warburton of the Family > > History Dept.'s Copyright Office several months back: > > > > <start> > > Before I respond to your request, I must make you aware of some policies >of > > the Family and Church History Department concerning appropriate uses of > > materials in our collection. Due to the increasing publication of these > > materials on the Internet, we are having to become more strict in >enforcing > > these policies to keep the department from being in violation of our > > contractual agreements with the donors of the records in our collection. > > > > Records held in the collection of the Family History Library and Family > > History Centers are intended for non-commercial personal family history > > research only. Use of the records beyond the scope of non-commercial > > personal family history research may violate contractual agreements with > > the records custodians and/or copyright laws. > > > > In order to be sure that we are in compliance with contractual obligations > > and copyright laws, the following uses of the records in our collection >are > > not permitted: > > > > 1. Creating indexes or extracts of multiple entries or of entire record >sets, > > 2. Copying or reproduction of multiple pages (beyond the limits of "fair > > use.") > > > > For certain materials for which the Genealogical Society of Utah or the > > Family History Department possesses unrestricted rights of use and > > publication, an officer of the Society may approve indexing projects in > > exchange for unrestricted rights to use and publish the resulting indexes. > > To obtain such approval, please provide full details in writing, including > > your name and address, the author and title of the materials to be indexes > > along with all film numbers proposed to be indexed and a full description > > lf the purpose of the index and any proposed publication (including > > publication to the Internet) to: > > > > President, The Genealogical Society of Utah > > 50 East North Temple Street, 5th Floor > > Salt Lake City UT 84150 > > > > Please keep this policy in mind before beginning any indexing or >extraction > > projects involving microfilms from our collection or before posting such > > projects that you may have already completed. A notice of this policy has > > been sent to all family history centers and should now be posted in the > > centers. We would appreciate your cooperation in ensuring that the > > Department is able to comply with its contractual agreements with the > > donors of these materials. > > > > I wish you every success in your family history efforts. If you have any > > questions, please contact me. > > > > Sincerely, > > Kathy Warburton > > Copyright Coordinator > > Family and Church History Department > > The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints > > Phone: 801-240-2049 > > Fax: 801-240-2494 > > Email: fhd-copyright@ldschurch.org > > <end> > > > > I hope this clears up any misconceptions or confusion any of ya'll have > > about their policies. If not, feel free to contact Ms. Warburton! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mary Kathryn Kozy > > mkozy@attglobal.net > > Mitchell Co., GAGenWeb CC > > > > At 07:52 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >If each CC ordered one film per month...about $3.60....from a local LDS > > >Church/FHL and transcribed the indexes for Wills, Marriages, Warranty >Deeds, > > >Warrantor and Warrantee indexes they would in a years time have a >multitude > > >of material on their site that would allow the visitors to our pages find > > >their ancestors name and then the person could order a copy of that deed, > > >will, marriage record. No professional would be needed to search those > > >records (and I worked as a professional genealogist for some years). No > > >search fee would be charged for looking up records by clerks..as the >index > > >would give each researcher what they needed to order a copy of those > > >records. There is no need to abstract or transcribe the records. If just > > >the indexes were done that would be a wonderful gift to the genealogy > > >community. Now why haven't I done that? Well when I first adopted GA > > >counties I was also preparing and researching to write a book which grew > > >into what could now be two books about the Lumbee Indian Tribe and all of > > >the families. For over ten years I ordered "all" of the microfilmed >public > > >records for Robeson County, NC and also records from Bladen, Sampson, > > >Lenoir, Guilford, Cumberland, and many other NC Counties, and then went >up > > >into VA and ordered VA filmed records and then made several trips to the > > >areas to search in the courthouses and the State Archives to find more >that > > >might have missed being filmed. So that took a primary until about eight > > >months ago when I felt I had gone as far with the research as I would go >in > > >my lifetime. Will leave more for others to pick up where I left off. But > > >now I have started working on the GA Counties that I host...With Ben Hill > > >the records have not been filmed as of yet...but I will make a trip up >there > > >within this year to copy those indexes...Luckily Irwin County records >have > > >been microfilmed and are available..and a cousin has already done a lot >of > > >those transcriptions which he will be providing and what he doesn't >provide > > >I will do.. The Ben Hill County Newspapers have all been microfilmed and >I > > >plan soon to order my first of many films and those I will purchase at >about > > >$24- $28.00 per film..forget correct amount...and I do have a film reader > > >and a fiche reader at home...my files are full of copies of original > > >documents from VA and NC records but very few of GA records and that is > > >because when I began hosting the GA Counties I was in the middle of >another > > >labor of love which is now completed and my time and attention will be on > > >the GA sites..but any of us can take the time to place the indexes online > > >and then no one will need to have a professional go into those records. >What > > >I propose we do will take years to accomplish and there is an occasional > > >need for a professional and they get in touch with us or a person will > > >contact us and request the name of a professional in which ever case I >will > > >be happy to provide that person with the name of someone who can help but >as > > >for the County Pages I believe with all my heart that they are not for > > >commercial use...a special page with commercial options in >research...that > > >is fine...but allow the viewer the option of going there is that is what > > >they want and not misrepresenting links and such by just sending them >there. > > >As someone who did make money at one time from professional genealogy I > > >never took a GA commission...but only in NC, PA, and SC and WV....just my > > >principals and what I feel was the right thing to do...with GA research I > > >did it for free in all cases....a lot of our visitors are elderly folks >with > > >limited incomes or disabled people and those who have pcs but can't >afford > > >the extras, and all are unable to travel... those are the ones who >benefit > > >the most from our project..Can we be proud of our selves if we send them >to > > >a commercial site thinking they are going to find real records that are >free > > >of charge only to find they have arrived at a paying site that they don't > > >have the money to subscribe to...sorry I can't do that...But that is just >my > > >opinion....but free is what the project is all about and free is how it > > >should remain...Gloria..... > > > > > > > > > > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > > >USGenWeb's motto is - Volunteers dedicated to free, online information. > > > > > > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > > Do you have a suggestion to include in our taglines? If so, please write > > GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== >Got a problem? Contact your RC or ASC at GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com

Gloria - I'll just throw this out once again for those who may have joined the project after the last time I posted.... Data contained in LDS microfilms is done through a copyright agreement with the LDS Church's Family History Dept. and the entity that holds the originals. These are NOT considered in the "public domain" as such. In order to extract, abstract, index, etc. any of these records (even if they are just court records from your county, marriages, wills, etc.), you must first get permission from the LDS Family History Dept.'s Copyright Office. They are generally more than willing to give it, but it is a necessary step to help prevent the FHL from legal problems should a particular entity not give permission for further indexing or some such thing that we as patrons reading the film (for personal research reasons) are not aware of. The LAST thing any of would want to do is jeopardize the FHL's reputation or standing amongst those whose good graces we all stand in need of (i.e., county court houses and other repositories/donors of these original records) or put them in any legal trouble. Here is the information I received from Kathy Warburton of the Family History Dept.'s Copyright Office several months back: <start> Before I respond to your request, I must make you aware of some policies of the Family and Church History Department concerning appropriate uses of materials in our collection. Due to the increasing publication of these materials on the Internet, we are having to become more strict in enforcing these policies to keep the department from being in violation of our contractual agreements with the donors of the records in our collection. Records held in the collection of the Family History Library and Family History Centers are intended for non-commercial personal family history research only. Use of the records beyond the scope of non-commercial personal family history research may violate contractual agreements with the records custodians and/or copyright laws. In order to be sure that we are in compliance with contractual obligations and copyright laws, the following uses of the records in our collection are not permitted: 1. Creating indexes or extracts of multiple entries or of entire record sets, 2. Copying or reproduction of multiple pages (beyond the limits of "fair use.") For certain materials for which the Genealogical Society of Utah or the Family History Department possesses unrestricted rights of use and publication, an officer of the Society may approve indexing projects in exchange for unrestricted rights to use and publish the resulting indexes. To obtain such approval, please provide full details in writing, including your name and address, the author and title of the materials to be indexes along with all film numbers proposed to be indexed and a full description lf the purpose of the index and any proposed publication (including publication to the Internet) to: President, The Genealogical Society of Utah 50 East North Temple Street, 5th Floor Salt Lake City UT 84150 Please keep this policy in mind before beginning any indexing or extraction projects involving microfilms from our collection or before posting such projects that you may have already completed. A notice of this policy has been sent to all family history centers and should now be posted in the centers. We would appreciate your cooperation in ensuring that the Department is able to comply with its contractual agreements with the donors of these materials. I wish you every success in your family history efforts. If you have any questions, please contact me. Sincerely, Kathy Warburton Copyright Coordinator Family and Church History Department The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Phone: 801-240-2049 Fax: 801-240-2494 Email: fhd-copyright@ldschurch.org <end> I hope this clears up any misconceptions or confusion any of ya'll have about their policies. If not, feel free to contact Ms. Warburton! Thanks, Mary Kathryn Kozy mkozy@attglobal.net Mitchell Co., GAGenWeb CC At 07:52 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: >If each CC ordered one film per month...about $3.60....from a local LDS >Church/FHL and transcribed the indexes for Wills, Marriages, Warranty Deeds, >Warrantor and Warrantee indexes they would in a years time have a multitude >of material on their site that would allow the visitors to our pages find >their ancestors name and then the person could order a copy of that deed, >will, marriage record. No professional would be needed to search those >records (and I worked as a professional genealogist for some years). No >search fee would be charged for looking up records by clerks..as the index >would give each researcher what they needed to order a copy of those >records. There is no need to abstract or transcribe the records. If just >the indexes were done that would be a wonderful gift to the genealogy >community. Now why haven't I done that? Well when I first adopted GA >counties I was also preparing and researching to write a book which grew >into what could now be two books about the Lumbee Indian Tribe and all of >the families. For over ten years I ordered "all" of the microfilmed public >records for Robeson County, NC and also records from Bladen, Sampson, >Lenoir, Guilford, Cumberland, and many other NC Counties, and then went up >into VA and ordered VA filmed records and then made several trips to the >areas to search in the courthouses and the State Archives to find more that >might have missed being filmed. So that took a primary until about eight >months ago when I felt I had gone as far with the research as I would go in >my lifetime. Will leave more for others to pick up where I left off. But >now I have started working on the GA Counties that I host...With Ben Hill >the records have not been filmed as of yet...but I will make a trip up there >within this year to copy those indexes...Luckily Irwin County records have >been microfilmed and are available..and a cousin has already done a lot of >those transcriptions which he will be providing and what he doesn't provide >I will do.. The Ben Hill County Newspapers have all been microfilmed and I >plan soon to order my first of many films and those I will purchase at about >$24- $28.00 per film..forget correct amount...and I do have a film reader >and a fiche reader at home...my files are full of copies of original >documents from VA and NC records but very few of GA records and that is >because when I began hosting the GA Counties I was in the middle of another >labor of love which is now completed and my time and attention will be on >the GA sites..but any of us can take the time to place the indexes online >and then no one will need to have a professional go into those records. What >I propose we do will take years to accomplish and there is an occasional >need for a professional and they get in touch with us or a person will >contact us and request the name of a professional in which ever case I will >be happy to provide that person with the name of someone who can help but as >for the County Pages I believe with all my heart that they are not for >commercial use...a special page with commercial options in research...that >is fine...but allow the viewer the option of going there is that is what >they want and not misrepresenting links and such by just sending them there. >As someone who did make money at one time from professional genealogy I >never took a GA commission...but only in NC, PA, and SC and WV....just my >principals and what I feel was the right thing to do...with GA research I >did it for free in all cases....a lot of our visitors are elderly folks with >limited incomes or disabled people and those who have pcs but can't afford >the extras, and all are unable to travel... those are the ones who benefit >the most from our project..Can we be proud of our selves if we send them to >a commercial site thinking they are going to find real records that are free >of charge only to find they have arrived at a paying site that they don't >have the money to subscribe to...sorry I can't do that...But that is just my >opinion....but free is what the project is all about and free is how it >should remain...Gloria..... > > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== >USGenWeb's motto is - Volunteers dedicated to free, online information.

Brenda, et al This site has been fixed by Virginia immediately after I first brought this to GAGen-L attention. Before she fixed it it had listed the fee that the researcher was charging for the lookup. This info was in the archives! Not the right spot for this! Virginia took off the musical background and the fees. Thank you Virginia for acting so promptly! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: Brenda Pierce To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 2:01 AM Subject: [GAGEN] ? About this This has been on many of the messages I have opened tonight from various mailing lists <sigh>, while appreciative of the index, I am a little confused why we are doing this as the USGenWeb Project Archives? Is this appropriate? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth D. Johnson" <kenjohnsontroymi@hotmail.com> To: <GACOWETA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:24 AM Subject: [GACOWETA] Newspaper Death Reference List Bonnie (Patsy) Harris has generously provided her compiled list of Deaths reported in Morgan County by various newspapers during the years 1842 - 1926. Many of the reported deaths refer to people in neighboring counties. And for a small fee, she will look up and copy the articles for you. See the newspaper data for the charges. Each reported listing provides the name of the deceased, age, residence, the newspaper, date, page & column number, and the first words of the article or obituary. We will forever be grateful to Patsy for this very very valuable database. Ken http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan.htm Click on "Newspapers" ==== GACOWETA Mailing List ==== Search the list archives: http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl - put GACOWETA for the name of the list ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== Got a problem? Contact your RC or ASC at GAGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com

Also, I finally looked at the site - and it is a great source. So I stand corrected on my assumptions. Forgive me, Ken? <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">MK Harrison</A> <A HREF="http://www.gabar.org/directory.asp">State Bar of Georgia Directory</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaworth/">Worth County, GA</A> I love cats because I love my home and after a while they become its visible soul. - Jean Cocteau Copyright © 2003

I replied via my Barrow list stating we only offer free genealogical material........... This is part of the letter he sent me: Dear MK, Thank you for the reminder, I've heard enough the last two days.   Basically, her database is free and gives people the sources to look for these newspaper articles and obituaries.  I wish you had taken the time to look for yourself.  Patsy does offer her services for those who cannot get to Georgia for a small fee, probably not enough to cover expenses.  Mr. Marshall Williams, who is the only employee at the Morgan County Records Archives, is bombarded with requests and he does not have the time for lookups since he is beholden to the County Court Justices and lawyers first.  And this is the ONLY place where ALL of the newspapers in the database are located.  I know from reading your posts on the GAGEN list that you are a fair person.  Please look at her database.   I apologize to you and GAGENWEB for my error in posting her fees to the mailing lists.  It shall not happen again.  My only goal here is to assist the researchers with material wherever it may be found.   I only responded to you and not the GABARROW list.   Best regards, Ken <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">MK Harrison</A> <A HREF="http://www.gabar.org/directory.asp">State Bar of Georgia Directory</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaworth/">Worth County, GA</A> I love cats because I love my home and after a while they become its visible soul. - Jean Cocteau Copyright © 2003

In a message dated 5/21/03 7:53:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, john2936@comcast.net writes: > If each CC ordered one film per month... So part of the selection procedure for County Coordinators should include a D & B too? <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">MK Harrison</A> <A HREF="http://www.gabar.org/directory.asp">State Bar of Georgia Directory</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaworth/">Worth County, GA</A> I love cats because I love my home and after a while they become its visible soul. - Jean Cocteau Copyright © 2003

A visitor to the Tift County site has informed me of a broken link. This is the link for the Georgia Civil War Soldiers Index. It was located at http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/military/gsi/index.html. Does anyone know the current or correct URL for this index? Thanks, R. Nalls CC - Tift County, GA

MK, just a suggestion but I would post a request to this list for the CC to contact you. Some folks pcs were knocked out by the recent weather and due to some servers being offline too due to weather the email may not have been received by that CC. We were out of town for a few days and John and I have both missed a lot of messages lately due to server problems and also having our mail boxes so full that some email bounced over and over. Others may be having the same problems. Gloria :)

There have been many voices and cries asking us to put the past behind us and to move on. Yet, it seems a bit one-sided. Recently I wrote one of you to ask the migration patterns to and from your county..... explained why I needed the info - gave ancestor's names, etc. It happened to be to someone who may not have agreed with the side I took concerning the vote. I have yet to hear from this person. At all. Nada It has been 5 days since I emailed this coordinator and while that isn't an exorbitant amount of time to have passed, I can only base my expectations by the time I take to answer letters. <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">MK Harrison</A> <A HREF="http://www.gabar.org/directory.asp">State Bar of Georgia Directory</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaworth/">Worth County, GA</A> I love cats because I love my home and after a while they become its visible soul. - Jean Cocteau Copyright © 2003

While I didn't see the advertisement you referred to, Laura, I do have a question about the uproar. It is my understanding that we can provide researchers on our sites. On the multitudes of sties I have seen doing this (on USGenWeb) there is a statement that some may charge for their services. That seems fair to me. No, I do not have that on my pages. We are providing genealogical services - free on our sites. And, if you are like me, free to those who ask for our help. However, most of us do not live in the counties we represent...... and while we may have books, microfilm and/or CDs of the records, nothing can compare to actually being there. There may be visitors who want to hire a genealogist and don't know where to turn and would depend on legitimate sites such as the USGenWeb as a source. I believe all transcribed materials of public records should be free. Period. My opinion. The question is what is the worth of the person's time to do so? Until every public record, family file, Bible record, etc. is available online for free, there is a need for researchers. Even those who charge. On my personal website, I state that I will do research for a fee. lol I have yet to charge one.... can't do it. How lucky I am in my life that I don't have to charge in order to eat or supplement my income. Some do. Again - I did not see the ad - so my thoughts are based on assumption - which are always precarious. <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">MK Harrison</A> <A HREF="http://www.gabar.org/directory.asp">State Bar of Georgia Directory</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCode=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaworth/">Worth County, GA</A> I love cats because I love my home and after a while they become its visible soul. - Jean Cocteau Copyright © 2003

I went to that web site and didn't see anything. Has it already been removed (I hope so!) Hugs.. michele

What are you talking about? I have never heard such a thing! Do you know which USGenWeb site is doing this?? michele McDuffie Co ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe & Laura" <DigMyPast@msn.com> To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:49 AM Subject: [GAGEN] Advertising for services > I thought the USGenWeb was for FREE genealogy, but now I get a message that > we are letting people charge for their lookups! And to top it off it is > even advertised as such on a GAGen Archive page! What's up???? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan/newspaper.htm > > Laura > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Regional Coordinators are there to help County Coordinators. Don't > hesitate to contact them should you have any, any question. To find > info on your region visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/regional.html > >

Thanks, Laura for alerting me to this. We're taking care of it.... At 06:49 AM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I thought the USGenWeb was for FREE genealogy, but now I get a message that >we are letting people charge for their lookups! And to top it off it is >even advertised as such on a GAGen Archive page! What's up???? >http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan/newspaper.htm > >Laura > > >==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== >Regional Coordinators are there to help County Coordinators. Don't > hesitate to contact them should you have any, any question. To find >info on your region visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/regional.html Virginia Crilley

I sent the website address with this mail! http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan/newspaper.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Michele Lewis To: GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [GAGEN] Advertising for services What are you talking about? I have never heard such a thing! Do you know which USGenWeb site is doing this?? michele McDuffie Co ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe & Laura" <DigMyPast@msn.com> To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:49 AM Subject: [GAGEN] Advertising for services > I thought the USGenWeb was for FREE genealogy, but now I get a message that > we are letting people charge for their lookups! And to top it off it is > even advertised as such on a GAGen Archive page! What's up???? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan/newspaper.htm > > Laura > > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== > Regional Coordinators are there to help County Coordinators. Don't > hesitate to contact them should you have any, any question. To find > info on your region visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/regional.html > > ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== Confused about Copyrights??? Review USGenWeb's policy on copyrights at: http://www.usgenweb.org/volunteers/copyright.html

I thought the USGenWeb was for FREE genealogy, but now I get a message that we are letting people charge for their lookups! And to top it off it is even advertised as such on a GAGen Archive page! What's up???? http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan/newspaper.htm Laura

Instead of pulling together all these ideas and the committee trying to decide which is best or trying to pull together all the suggestions into one revision, why not offer a choice during the vote. The idea would look something like this: Article XX(whatever) currently reads: "bla bla bla bla...." Vote to Change the wording to read: Option 1: "bla bla bla..." Option 2: "bla bla bla..." Option 3: "bla bla bla..." Option 4: Make no change This would let the CCs speak for themselves. This format could even allow the committee to offer their own version as an option instead of the only option. If there are many options without a clear winner, it may be wise to have a run off of the top 2 or 3 options. Respectfully, Jeff Johnson

Not sure whom you wrote, but some like me probably travel and have a busy life outside GaGenWeb, I am also confused as to what you are asking for in re to migration from counties, I do have migration maps from the US from the North, etc. called the Southern Route, I think I may have those online on one of my personal sites, however the migration from county to county in a lot of cases was not because they moved, it was because the boundaries changed - I have folks in Chuck's line that lived in the same place and were in different counties at different times, also look at the Dekalb site, read about that poor man on there. Also, the best way to view any type of migration that way would be to take the maps and do "transparencies then overlay them, or overlay them in PSP - Chuck has done this with Spalding County and has been quite helpful. The railroad was a reason also for migration - here are some of the migration patterns that I have seen thus far - Hall County to Cherokee - Forsyth - Milton - Gwinnett Gwinnett to Fulton or Milton Sorry for ramblings, if there is something you can specifically pinpoint, I'll be happy to assist - as for the vote - you are entitled to your own opinions, I am here to put data online and help researchers in addition to helping anyone here that I can help, personalities need not be involved. With Regards, Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: <TooFem@aol.com> To: <GAGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:52 PM Subject: [GAGEN] Observation There have been many voices and cries asking us to put the past behind us and to move on. Yet, it seems a bit one-sided. Recently I wrote one of you to ask the migration patterns to and from your county..... explained why I needed the info - gave ancestor's names, etc. It happened to be to someone who may not have agreed with the side I took concerning the vote. I have yet to hear from this person. At all. Nada It has been 5 days since I emailed this coordinator and while that isn't an exorbitant amount of time to have passed, I can only base my expectations by the time I take to answer letters. <A HREF="http://mkharrison.com">MK Harrison</A> <A HREF="http://www.gabar.org/directory.asp">State Bar of Georgia Directory</A> <A HREF="http://www.ancestry.com/landing/homelandsweeps2/landing2.html?SourceCo de=3913&iid=3913%3A+Sweepstakes+1">Ancestry.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gabarrow/">Barrow County, GA</A> <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~gaworth/">Worth County, GA</A> I love cats because I love my home and after a while they become its visible soul. - Jean Cocteau Copyright � 2003 ==== GAGEN Mailing List ==== Did your county's courthouse ever meet with a disaster?? Check out GAGenWeb's List and Research Tips at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gagenweb/cchelp/courthouses.htm

This has been on many of the messages I have opened tonight from various mailing lists <sigh>, while appreciative of the index, I am a little confused why we are doing this as the USGenWeb Project Archives? Is this appropriate? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth D. Johnson" <kenjohnsontroymi@hotmail.com> To: <GACOWETA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:24 AM Subject: [GACOWETA] Newspaper Death Reference List Bonnie (Patsy) Harris has generously provided her compiled list of Deaths reported in Morgan County by various newspapers during the years 1842 - 1926. Many of the reported deaths refer to people in neighboring counties. And for a small fee, she will look up and copy the articles for you. See the newspaper data for the charges. Each reported listing provides the name of the deceased, age, residence, the newspaper, date, page & column number, and the first words of the article or obituary. We will forever be grateful to Patsy for this very very valuable database. Ken http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/morgan.htm Click on "Newspapers" ==== GACOWETA Mailing List ==== Search the list archives: http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl - put GACOWETA for the name of the list