"Any man who can father 20 children, all legal, must have been one hell of a man." Just because a male can father one child or twenty, does not make him a heck of a man. It is how he loves and takes care of the child/children that makes him a man. Darlene

yes perversion occurs, but to list it as one of the major reasons for early marriage is simply false. It was a custom for eligible females in the south of any social or ethnic origin to marry early up until the early 20th century unless, and I use the unless advisedely, the girl was "strange" i.e. wanted something more than marriage, perhaps education, then she usually either never married or married before she was 21. no, the number of "pappies" sexually abusing thier daughters can't be proved by any emperical data, but as i said before, you can always use "sexual abuse" to "prove" a point. . eaad>From: "oneoldog" <oneolddogg@home.com> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:23:29 -0000 > >I am sorry this disgusts you but is a proven fact back then as it is today. >If you knew anyone who had been unfortunate enough to be a victim, you >might >have a different opinion. >Pat in TX > > > >Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse > > > > > > Yep had to throw in that "sexual abuse",,and "property of father"; gotta > > watch pappy at every turn!! Geeze... If you can't think of a reason > > this'un is as good as any I suppose...disgust here > > >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> > > >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages > > >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0400 > > > > > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I > > >think it was to get away from a big family with too many > > >mouths to feed or since women were considered property > > >of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons > > >moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and > > >maybe children from a first wife. > > >I have several lines where the women married very young. > > >Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. > > >Lynda > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

yep, every southern pappy only bred girls to abuse...only a depraved mind would even insinuate this..and yes there are instances of sons fathering children by thier mothers..but to use that as a major reason for marrying young is simply false.. From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:59:22 -0400 > >One of the lines I am researching for a friend had an 11 >year old girl who got married. Her father was listed as the >father of one of her older sister's children. Yes, it does >happen. Whether you like it or not. >Lynda > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Would that be the "southern" women whose families imigrated to NY, etc then moved until they settled in the best place they could find which of course was the south?

25 Oct. 1843 Married;; 17 Oct.1843...by Rev. Payne...William S. Adams of Russell Co. Al. to Miss Julia A.Minter of this city... In New York ,12 Oct. by Rev. Chase..Thomas S.Carr of this city...to Miss Mary Elizabeth Jones of New York... In Greenville,Meriwether Co. 17 Oct,1853...by Rev. L.W.Corbin..Stephen Willis of Greene Co. to Miss Mary Elizabeth ,only dau of Nathan Truitt,esq... In the same place 18 Oct... by Rev. William D.Martin..John Simington of Green Co. to Miss Catharine A. Jossey.. Meriwether Co. 19 Oct. by Rev. William D.Martin...Col A.C.Garry..to Miss Frances C. eldest dau of Major William Low.. DIED LaFayette,Chambers Co. Al. 16 Oct 1843..Mrs. Augusta A.Walker..age 47..relict of the late John Walker of Morgan Co. Al. also at the same place,13 Oct.1843 ,Oscar M.Willis,son of the above..age about 30... Legal notices Muscogee Co. Henry Crew..appiles for letters of adm'r....estate of Margaret Ann Crew...signed N.McLester,ordinary 1 Nov. 1843 MARRIED At the home of Col Van Leonard, 26 Oct. 1843...by Rev.Lovick Pierce..William E.Love to Miss Carolina Louisa,eldest dau of Hon.James S. Calhoun.. At Fort Gaines 15 Oct..by Rev. Mr.Purifoy..Christopher C.Green to Mrs. Ann S.Kirkland... DIED 27 Oct. at his Mother home in Russell Co. Al...John D.Redd..age 45.. At his home in Franklin Co. 17 Oct. Rev.Dozier Thornton..age about 100..leaves widow and many children... Stolen.one horse..from me at Salem,Russell Co.Al. about 1 Sept. I will give $5 reward...signed G.W.Dallas,Salem... Sheriff Sale. Harris Co. Lot # 72,71/3 dist..property of Thomas Bolls..in favor of Robert H.Sledge... Marion Co. Lot # 295/5 dist...property of Charles Toney..in favor of Benjamin Story signed C.R.Lockett,sheriff Meriwether co.. Lot where Nancy Hamilton now lives..7 dist..property of of Moses Hamilton...in favor of William G.Prichard vs Reuben Phillips and Robert C.Fain,executors of the estate of Moses Hamilton,dec'd.. 8 Nov. 1843 Married 31 Oct.1843 by Rev. Noah Smith..Robert W.Greene of Russell Co.Al.to Miss Mary Ann,dau of Samuel Quarles esq..of Stewart Co. 24 Oct.. by Noah Smith ..Thomas Gilbert,Jr. to Miss Elizabeth P. Ramey,all of Stewart Co. Died..William J.Vincent of Charleston SC..in this city... 24 Oct...Mrs M.L.Reed..consort pf Murray Reed..age 30..left one small child... Legal Notices;; Talbot Co. Joel Hough tolls before me H.H.Hammock,JP..0ne horse...appraised by John Childers,Micaajah Long..signed Henry Jones, ordinary. Talbot Co...Thomas P.Jackson tolls before me G.B.Clay JP..one horse,appraised by Seaborn L.Dean... 22 Nov. 1843 MARRIED Meriwether Co. 22 Oct. 1843..by E.LVardeman esq..Pendleton Fuller to Miss Miller.. Mr. Jones F.Miller to Miss Brown..22 Oct.1843 2 Nov....James Porch to Miss Martha O.Spratlin same day and place...Wiley Ellis to Miss Sibby Gilmore.. ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Joseph Nail to Miss Watson 7th Nov in Greenville,bt Hon. James Render.Robert H.Taylor,esq..to Miss Eppsey A. dau. of Thomas E.Hardaway,esq.. ....................... to be cont'

I am sorry this disgusts you but is a proven fact back then as it is today. If you knew anyone who had been unfortunate enough to be a victim, you might have a different opinion. Pat in TX Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse > > Yep had to throw in that "sexual abuse",,and "property of father"; gotta > watch pappy at every turn!! Geeze... If you can't think of a reason > this'un is as good as any I suppose...disgust here > >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> > >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com > >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages > >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0400 > > > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I > >think it was to get away from a big family with too many > >mouths to feed or since women were considered property > >of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons > >moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and > >maybe children from a first wife. > >I have several lines where the women married very young. > >Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. > >Lynda > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >

There was a show on TV, I think yesterday...I usually turn the TV off after the noon news, but anyway, the TV was playing while I was typing on this thing, and I recall them showing 12-13 year-old girls which looked to be 17-20. Jail-bait for young boys...we old codgers know better... Often, the second or third wife was as young as the children of the first wife, because women(and their parents) wanted to avoid the "Spinster stigma" and they may not have been attractive enough to get a man their own age...After the flower of their youth, they begin to wonder if they are ever going to find a mate, so when an older man came along, they jumped at it...and the fathers may have been encouraged by some monetary inducement (dowry). I know that I didn't want to give my prized possessions to the first clod who came along... so I made the guys come talk to me first, before I consented...My late mother-in-law's last two husbands (she outlived both) came and asked me if it was okay, even though I was much their junior...I was the dominant male in that family...and when I ever marry again, I expect to ask the elder son, or elder son-in-law(or whoever is proper) before I marry their mother...It just makes for good future family relations, and if I am not man enough to do that, then I don't deserve her love and affection... Two of my father's aunts never married...The older confessed that the only boy she ever cared for married someone else...I don't know about the younger one since she died when I was about four...albeit I remember playing with her. They were not gorgeous models, but they were attractive looking, as far as the photos I have of them... Call me old-fashioned if you want, I still believe that when you marry, you get the whole family, not just the spouse... Gerry Gieger Look UP! Luke 21:28/Acts 1:11 >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0400 > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I >think it was to get away from a big family with too many >mouths to feed or since women were considered property >of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons >moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and >maybe children from a first wife. >I have several lines where the women married very young. >Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. >Lynda > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

My grandmother married when she was 14, following a few months my daddy. The live in the mountains of KY and sometimes they had to wait for a preacher to show up, (this could take months )so the declared their intentions and just moved in together. Pat in Tx [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages > > > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I > > think it was to get away from a big family with too many > > mouths to feed or since women were considered property > > of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons > > moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and > > maybe children from a first wife. > > I have several lines where the women married very young. > > Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. > > > WOW! I haven > t yet seen one that early. About the earliest I've seen is 15. I would > think that marryin' off the girls would be to attract more workers to the > farm or to keep the boys on the farm. I definitely agree with the children > needing taking care of . . but I have doubts that someone would want a child > taking care of the children... >

"The old coot"......hmmmmm, my own great grandfather, George Abraham "Tobe" Stevens, met his wife to be when she was only five years old and he was twenty five. He stated she was the prettiest thing he ever saw and was gonna wait for her to grow and marry her. He did, too. She was 14 when he married her. At least this line didn't keep marrying it's cousins as in my father's line. It is as I have told it many times, I am my own 5th, 6th, and 7th cousin on my father's side, and am short of proving my mother is my father's own 6th cousin thru her grandmother's line (GREER). ear

Hello all GA listers, I want to thank each of you for your responses on my question about marrying at 11. I'm almost certain that to be her age due to the marriage date of her parents. The man that she married, turned out to be quite a monster. The deal is; they would have married abt 1887/88 due to the first child being born in 1888. However, a cousin found a marriage record of her marrying a man in 1886 with the same first name different last name. We havent quite figured out if he may have gotten into trouble in GA/AL as well, and changed his name, or if she married twice. Now, I personally have not seen this record of the 1886 marriage, and do not know for fact that this is my gg grandmother. According to the 1900 census, she was 24 and had been married for 12 years, which still, only makes her 12. This is my own finding and I have a copy. Due to the fact we have no 1890 census, I cannot compare, and the fact that her husband (my gg grandfather) lost his mind in 1902, I cannot even compare with 1910. Although she remarried before 1904 her next two boys by this marriage always carried my gg grandfathers name. Reason unknown, Unless she just wanted all her children to have the same last name....got me....Anyway, thanks for all the answers, Who knows, maybe one day I'll wake up with a fresh mind, and all the answers will be right in front of me. Here's hoping!! ; ) Again, Thanks to all, for all of your help, Sharla Linex

After the first national recession of 1788-1790 [24 months duration] followed the first national depression of 1796-1799 [36 months duration]. What effect have you found that these two periods affected your GA ancestors. I am sure that if your ancestor managed to stay afloat during these two periods they found the next two hard to manage. 1802-1804 brought 24 months of recession. 1807-1810 brought in 36 months of depression. Followed by six months of recession. 1815-1821 brought in the crusher. 72 months of depression. Look at the lives of your ancestor during these years. Weather, war, and pestilence were not the only factors that made folks want to move. After all is said about the great 1929-1933 depression there were three depression periods before it and they were larger or longer if you will. I have noticed the value of personal and estate in the census to change drastically in some census listings. I have also noticed in the court records the deed traffic picking up at times when economics was a hard taskmaker. The sheriff`s sales pick up after long bouts of recession and depression for many of the families. Oh yes, there were two periods of depression periods that put together another crusher for 1836-1843 for 72 months. 1873-1885 put together 103 months of depression with 1880-1881 quiet. Banks going under made it difficult for the society of that day to buy seed, utensils, and equipment. Barter was the word in those days. I shudder to think what the folks of today would do if a depression showed its ugly head today. Remember, those checks and balances are slowly being turned out. "Too many rules and regulations.." is what I hear these days.(G) Anywho, look at the time periods that you see something is not right and you are puzzled about a reason for a change. Look at the economical picture of the day. John Michael O`Melia 13jo36@BellSouth.net

Good Afternoon, My GrGrandpa John Robinson married a 17 year old girl who died at age 31 of child birth complications with her 15 child. He was 35 when he married the first time. They lived in Carroll County, GA. The following year, at age 63, he married Martha Fain who was 17 at the time. That wedding took place in Cass County, GA where her parents lived. GrGrandma Martha gave him 5 more children including Grandpa William Fain Robinson. Men marrying younger women seems to have been the norm in those days. Any man who can father 20 children, all legal, must have been one hell of a man. Angus "Scotty" Robinson

One of the lines I am researching for a friend had an 11 year old girl who got married. Her father was listed as the father of one of her older sister's children. Yes, it does happen. Whether you like it or not. Lynda

Yep had to throw in that "sexual abuse",,and "property of father"; gotta watch pappy at every turn!! Geeze... If you can't think of a reason this'un is as good as any I suppose...disgust here >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0400 > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I >think it was to get away from a big family with too many >mouths to feed or since women were considered property >of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons >moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and >maybe children from a first wife. >I have several lines where the women married very young. >Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. >Lynda > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

My late Wife, Frances, and I were both 18 when we married, considered young for a guy, but about right for a girl at that time in Texas... God gave us a life beyond our wildest dreams. We had four sons and three daughters, four granddaughters and ten grandsons, but they are not finished...my younger is not married yet; in fact he just graduated from College this past June and has a steady girlfriend...while I do not recommend very young marriages, they can lead to a long and happy life for two committed people...All of mine have married in their 20's...those who finished College before marriage have fared better... Yesterday was Frances' 64th birthday, but she departed two years ago for a much more beautiful place where the roses are always in full bloom, the streets glisten with the purest gold pavement, and there is no night...albeit she was my sunshine and the love of my life, I have a promise that I shall see her again, waiting for me at the entrance... I took flowers to the cemetery yesterday, however, I do not cry any more; in an instant last year, HE took all that hurt away and filled it with the Joy of HIS presence...But I loved her and miss her a lot... Gerry Look UP! Luke 21:28/Acts 1:11 [for a tribute to Frances, see: http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum23/HTML/000010.html] >From: "Sharla Linex" <linex_s@email.msn.com> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Hiram BURDETT/Re: Marrying Ages >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:23:20 -0500 > >Sharon, > > Thanks so much for this info. I too, married very young the first time, >14. >But 11 just seems like such a baby. I'm assuming in AL or GA they had to >get permission for her to marry at that age. Maybe one day I'll find my >answer. > >Thanks again, >Sharla Linex >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sharon <shadri@perry.gulfnet.com> >To: <GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 9:56 AM >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Hiram BURDETT/Re: Marrying Ages > > > > >A man marrying a girl with that much age difference was not uncommon in > > those days. In the 1700s I have a g-g-grandfather marrying a 16 year >old > > and he was 45. They had 11 children! Then in the late 1800s I have a > > grandmother who m. a man 20 years older than she was and her girls each > > married older men. < > > > > And in more "modern" times.... > > My great-grandmother was born 1889 my great-grandfather born 1880 they >were > > married in 1904 which made her 15 and him 24 they had 7 children >[including > > twin girls]. My grandmother was born in 1912, my grandfather born 1907 >they > > were married in 1928 which made her 14! and him 21, they had 8 boys and >2 > > girls [that lived]. I married at the age of 17, [would not recommend >it! > > <G>]... but God has richly blessed me with a wonderful person in my life >for > > 27 yrs now, no children unfortunately. My younger sister is married to a > > fine man 18 years her senior; seems they were made for each other. They >too, > > have no children together. It is her first marriage..he was married >before. > > Sharon > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

My grandfather married his children's "nanny" when my grandmother died. I don't know if anything was "going on" before her death... or if they married because she was living there and it would "look" better. There were 4 young children in the family. They grew to love her as their mother! This 2nd "mother" was very young...but 11?...I've not run into that in my family... Mary in SC That's strange, half my ancestors are WOMEN!! At 11:42 AM 08/17/2000 -0400, lynda wilson wrote: >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I >think it was to get away from a big family with too many >mouths to feed or since women were considered property >of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons >moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and >maybe children from a first wife. >I have several lines where the women married very young. >Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. >Lynda > >

>For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I think it was to get away from a big family with too many mouths to feed or since women were considered property of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and maybe children from a first wife. I have several lines where the women married very young. Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. Lynda< Some very valid points you make Lynda. We forget sometimes I think, that we cannot apply 20th and 21st Century principles to 18th and 19th [or beyond] Centuries. Sharon

For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I think it was to get away from a big family with too many mouths to feed or since women were considered property of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and maybe children from a first wife. I have several lines where the women married very young. Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. Lynda

> Yep had to throw in that "sexual abuse",,and "property of father"; gotta > watch pappy at every turn!! Geeze... If you can't think of a reason > this'un is as good as any I suppose...disgust here I agree! > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I doubt they married of thiere own accord. That's why we see families of the same surnames generation after generation... I think that when families lived so close together and intermarried so much that it was just a given that Betsy Jo and Sid got married because they were close in age and they may have been the only possible match for miles around. They all knew each other and the families were already families. I'm not talkin' them darn big fancy rich folks neither. Diana

> >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I > think it was to get away from a big family with too many > mouths to feed or since women were considered property > of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons > moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and > maybe children from a first wife. > I have several lines where the women married very young. > Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. WOW! I haven t yet seen one that early. About the earliest I've seen is 15. I would think that marryin' off the girls would be to attract more workers to the farm or to keep the boys on the farm. I definitely agree with the children needing taking care of . . but I have doubts that someone would want a child taking care of the children...