Hi, I can't find my addy for the site where one types in a location and it is pulled up by State. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I think it's a Gov site. I'm looking for Murdock's Mills. Marsha -- Ford House http://www.cybertrails.com/~meandsteve "Let the redeemed of the earth say so..." Psalm 107:2

The Georgia Roots list is for the discussion of Georgia History and genealogy. Please do not use it for a discussion on sexual abuse!!! Faye

Debbie, Was the 1866 Daniel the first child? If that is the case, I would look at the names of the 1st and 2nd wives being mixed up, because sixteen years or more would be a long time to go before children were born. Had a similar situation on one of my lines and it turned out that the 2nd wife was the mother. Good luck, Tootsie

Good Morning, This is my last message on the subject of 11 year old girls getting married. Permit me to remind everyone that to compare a 11 year old female of today to a 11 year old female who lived 100 to 200 years ago is like comparing apples and oranges. They just won't mix. Even in the early 1920's, when I was a young boy, girls usually carried a far greater responsibility around the house than those of today. Going further back, say to the early to mid-1800's, an 11 year old girl probably did some of the washing, cooking, baby sitting for her younger siblings and perhaps even milking the cow and churning butter. There have been a number of books written on the subject of frontier life. One such author was named Eckhardt. Admittedly his writings are considered semi-fictional but the stories were based on life as it existed in those days. So when we discuss 11 year old girls we have to consider it in the context of those earlier days. If, as a father of several children in those days, I was forced to consider the need of a new wife to replace my just deceased wife who was the mother of several young children, I might not want to marry a woman with a flock of kids from another marriage. It would be the prelude to a bad marriage. I would look for a girl who had never been married and needed to find a man who would care for her as her own parents had done. When I held my first born son in my arms in spring of 1951 I did so in awe at the experience. It made me wonder if this was the way my parents, my grandparents and so on back felt as each new child entered the world? I enjoy the interchange on this subject as long as it stays on an intelligent level. Keep Looking UP. Angus "Scotty" Robinson

Anyone want to guess at this one? My ggg gf, Daniel J. Burke m. Rebecca Hopkins before 1850. On May 9, 1866, she gave birth to my gg gf, John W. Burke. On May 9, 1866 Daniel married Elizabeth Davis. What do you think? Did Rebecca die that morning in childbirth and Ole Dan didn't let grass grow under his feet? I would sure like to know! Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <GA-ROOTS-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <GA-ROOTS-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 6:02 PM Subject: GA-ROOTS-D Digest V00 #256

Could it also be that many years ago by the time you were 20 you were pretty much middle aged. The life expectancy wasn't but about 45 wasn't it. At what age were you considered a spinster?

Be it far from me to argue...Rev. James Wilson West, a circuit riding Baptist preacher in Southern MS, and the son of Shadrach Nelson West, first married Mary Jane Hough who bore him about 13 children before she died...He then married her sister, Charlotte Hough, but soon she died, childless. Afterward, he married a woman named Evans but her children, if any, have not been identified. After she died, he married Annie Taylor and she bore eight more children, although it was commonly reported family lore that he fathered 23-24 children... Polygamy was not accepted, although practiced... >From: BIGGAFIVE@aol.com >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:53:05 EDT > >Since so of us seem to argue with everyone and what everyone says, I would >like to add to this marrying young. It's not really marrying young but it >is >something that also went on back then. My great grandfather not only >married >a young girl but also let her sister come along. He had a total of children >by both of these young ladies. The sister that her really married died >young >and he never married the other sister. They were common law husband and >wife. >She also raised all the children as her own. Now you can argue with this >but >this is a fact. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Be it far from me to argue...Rev. James Wilson West, a circuit riding Baptist preacher in Southern MS, and the son of Shadrach Nelson West, first married Mary Jane Hough who bore him about 13 children before she died...He then married her sister, Charlotte Hough, but soon she died, childless. Afterward, he married a woman named Evans but her children, if any, have not been identified. After she died, he married Annie Taylor and she bore eight more children, although it was commonly reported family lore that he fathered 23-24 children... Polygamy was not accepted, although practiced... >From: BIGGAFIVE@aol.com >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:53:05 EDT > >Since so of us seem to argue with everyone and what everyone says, I would >like to add to this marrying young. It's not really marrying young but it >is >something that also went on back then. My great grandfather not only >married >a young girl but also let her sister come along. He had a total of children >by both of these young ladies. The sister that her really married died >young >and he never married the other sister. They were common law husband and >wife. >She also raised all the children as her own. Now you can argue with this >but >this is a fact. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

If Mary Anne Rick is on this list, would appreciate you contacting me privately about COFFMAN surname. If you know her, would alspo appreciate yuour forwarding my address to her... Thanks... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

I just had to jump in here. My GGrandfather married a 11 or 12 year old. Not sure abt the age as only going by census records. She out lived her husband by many years after giving birth to abt 10 children. The reason for the early marriage no one knows, but they appear to have both had a long life. She was well into her 70's when she died and he was about 70 also. I married at 14, had 5 wonderful children, completed my education and pursued a career. I don't want to see my children marring that young, but it was quite common in my day. By the way I have 12 grandchildren and baby sit for my 1st ggrandson while his mother. There is not anything like holding a newborn baby in your arms to make you feel young again. Barbara of Ca

Linda asks, "at what age, a young woman was considered a spinster". My guess would be 25........and "if" they did marry, stood a better chance of living longer....... Women who married at 15 and gave birth every 10-11 months, looked 50 by the time they were 25, those who survived, because too many died in childbirth, from lack of any medical care or lack of competent medical care. Womens bodies never had a chance to heal after childbirth, and their husbands didn't care.............simple as that. By the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century, not so many women died, as before, in childbirth, they began to die, performing abortions on themselves........or having them done by butchers.......and still women suffered the humiliation of being brood mares without any guidance from their Doctors about simple birth control methods...............and without any compassion or support from their husbands..........I guess how many children, a man, fathered was a sign of manhood, but how many wives died while manhood was proven was of no real importance, just bring on another young flower, with a stong back to take care of the orphaned children of the previous wife and hope that she's fertile.......................the hardships and indignities of many of our ancestral mothers were and still are a disgrace..........how they survived, so many of them, is quite remarkable....and yet, we genealogists, have the most difficulty finding out information about the women of our families.................who had little or no identity and certainly "no worth" except how many babies they could birth...........and frequently, their husbands, in their wills left these strong, hardworking mothers.............a bedstead and a feather bed...

If someone has this information,please post it to the list. Pat in TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby G Sparks" <bgsparks@juno.com> To: <GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: [GA-Roots] Civilian Conservation Corps. (CCC) > I am trying to find a roster of the men who were in the CCC. This was > the Federal program started in 1933 to help the unemployed during the > depression. > > Anyone know of a website where I can find this information? > > Thanks, > > Bobby G. Sparks > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >

I will definately agree with that. Don't you know those women wish they had had birth control all those years ago? I know for a fact that any man of any age was up to "abusing females" and it still goes on today. They always needed help. Joyce Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gubasemia@aol.com> To: <GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 7:14 PM Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying ages > "Any man who can father 20 children, all legal, must have > been one hell of a man." > > Just because a male can father one child or twenty, does not make him a heck > of a man. It is how he loves and takes care of the child/children that makes > him a man. > > Darlene

Since so of us seem to argue with everyone and what everyone says, I would like to add to this marrying young. It's not really marrying young but it is something that also went on back then. My great grandfather not only married a young girl but also let her sister come along. He had a total of children by both of these young ladies. The sister that her really married died young and he never married the other sister. They were common law husband and wife. She also raised all the children as her own. Now you can argue with this but this is a fact.

I am 64 and would never ever consider touching one of my daughters or my granddaughters...I love them too much. And the thought of raising a teen-age wife impales me... >From: "Jon Lou" <jonlouis37@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:02:28 EDT > > >yes perversion occurs, but to list it as one of the major reasons for early >marriage is simply false. It was a custom for eligible females in the >south >of any social or ethnic origin to marry early up until the early 20th >century unless, and I use the unless advisedely, the girl was "strange" >i.e. wanted something more than marriage, perhaps education, then she >usually either never married or married before she was 21. no, the number >of "pappies" sexually abusing thier daughters can't be proved by any >emperical data, but as i said before, you can always use "sexual abuse" to >"prove" a point. > >. eaad>From: "oneoldog" <oneolddogg@home.com> >>Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >>To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:23:29 -0000 >> >>I am sorry this disgusts you but is a proven fact back then as it is >>today. >>If you knew anyone who had been unfortunate enough to be a victim, you >>might >>have a different opinion. >>Pat in TX >> >> >> >>Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >> >> >> > >> > Yep had to throw in that "sexual abuse",,and "property of father"; >>gotta >> > watch pappy at every turn!! Geeze... If you can't think of a reason >> > this'un is as good as any I suppose...disgust here >> > >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> >> > >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >> > >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >> > >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages >> > >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:42:50 -0400 >> > > >> > >For some reason a lot of southern women married young. I >> > >think it was to get away from a big family with too many >> > >mouths to feed or since women were considered property >> > >of the father, maybe to avoid sexual abuse. Or the sons >> > >moved out and needed a wife to take care of them and >> > >maybe children from a first wife. >> > >I have several lines where the women married very young. >> > >Unfortunately, marrying at 11 is not that uncommon. >> > >Lynda >> > > >> > >> > >>________________________________________________________________________ >> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >>http://www.hotmail.com >> > >> >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Now Ladies, there certainly were cases of sexual abuse then just as there are now, but it was not the major reason for women/girls to marry young... 1.They may have matured earlier; 2.They may have wanted to get out of the house; 3.They could have considered it a good investment; 4.The marriage date may have hinged on when the Preacher filed the certificate...They declared their intentions to the community and lived together...until he came along; 5.The mother of the house may have died and they needed to disperse the children - my ggg-grandparents raised a "ward" which I cannot prove her origins...she shows up as a 3 year-old "pauper" on the first census, then a 13 year-old in the next census, and missing in the next...A descendant of the first husband thinks that her parents both died and no one in the community wanted another mouth to feed. She had several brothers who could work in the fields, but she was too young, so my ggg-grandparents took her in...Her marriage is listed in a Family Bible along with one of her children, although it is known that the marriage did not last and there were actually twin girls, one was never listed...so much mystery...we cannot jump to conclusions or even judge what they did by our standards...Those times were different... BTW - the Biblical story of Jacob and Rachel fits well here... if you calculate the ages, Jacob was 75 when he married Rachel, and she was only seven when he first saw her..."the old coot" >From: "Jon Lou" <jonlouis37@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:54:17 EDT > > >yep, every southern pappy only bred girls to abuse...only a depraved mind >would even insinuate this..and yes there are instances of sons fathering >children by thier mothers..but to use that as a major reason for marrying >young is simply false.. > >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> >>Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >>To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:59:22 -0400 >> >>One of the lines I am researching for a friend had an 11 >>year old girl who got married. Her father was listed as the >>father of one of her older sister's children. Yes, it does >>happen. Whether you like it or not. >>Lynda >> >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

you better belive it. my aunts father was a dirty old man, there was this old man who tired to get us girls in his house, my ex an if you cant trust a father who can you trust,i dont .

Wasn't that the underlying theme of "The Color Purple?" >From: lynda wilson <lwilson@life.edu> >Reply-To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >To: GA-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [GA-Roots] Marrying Ages and Sexual Abuse >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:59:22 -0400 > >One of the lines I am researching for a friend had an 11 >year old girl who got married. Her father was listed as the >father of one of her older sister's children. Yes, it does >happen. Whether you like it or not. >Lynda > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

I am trying to break through one of the may dead ends in my efforts to discover all of the descendants of my immigrant g-g-grandparents. Like most of us, I lack the ability to visit every state vital records office personally so I am asking for your help. Could someone please check the state register for the death of George LAUSCHER? DOB Sept. 1885 in WI DOD After 1944 - place unknown George's parents were Hubert LAUSCHER and Mary Ann STOFFELS. George is not listed on the Social Security death index. He divorced his wife and left his home in MI about 1934 when his youngest son was 3. He is now 70 and never heard from or saw his father again. Since I am not a regular subscriber to all state lists, if you have any information that could help me discover George's death date and resting place, would you please e-mail me personally. In advance, thank you. Janet Mihelich

Good Evening, All our family verbal stories tell us GrGrandpa John was a caring soul. He donated land for schools and burial gounds not only for his own family but for the use of his neighbors. Not one of his children, regardless of which mother they had, went hungry or lacked clothes on their backs. He and his parents lived among the Cherokee Indian nation without rancor. In fact, he was a close friend of several of the noted Indian chiefs of the early 1800's in Northwest Georgia. His Indian name was Yonah. The character and self respect he instilled in his children were passed on to each generation and today we have proudly and reverently passed those same traits on to our own families. I am the father of six children and, as of this date, 13 grandkids and 3 gr-gr-grand children. Again, I repeat, he must have been one hell of man to raise 15 children (five died in infancy) who never suffered from need. Contrary to the way kids are raised today, we were taught to say "Yes Sir or Yes Mam," or say "pardon me" if we wanted to ask a question while grownups were in the midst of a conversation. Expletives were totally unacceptable contrary to the terrible language many children hear in their homes today. Not one of us dared go home and tell our parents that some policeman hit us across the buttocks with a club. If we had, our father would have asked what we did to warrant the club and we would have gotten it twice as bad from our father. There wouldn't be any of that, "How dare he hit my kid." Yes, it takes decent and God fearing parents to raise kids today! Angus "Scotty" Robinson Researching: FAIN, JONES, ROBINSON, ROBERTSON, KIRKSEY, TAYLOR, FRICK, ADAIR, HAMMOND, POWELL, KULBETH (CULBRETH), PENDLETON, and LAVENDER (LAUBINGER).