I have followed this thread with interest. John, you have some great points and I agree with you that the user needs some method for tweaking the templates or at least generating and formatting some of his own. However, a decision was made some time ago that the program would attempt to encourage the less experienced users with some type of access to using ESM's guidelines. The 100 or so quick templates were selected and implemented. Some like them. Others use them and then there are a good many like me who sticks with the older default format. The ESM templates are useful only if you intend to create reports and charts with Endnotes. They then format the data is specific ways and use generally accepted formatting of the documentation structure. Since I don't intend to publish my tree and I don't create a lot of reports and trees with endnotes, I don't use the templates. I understand FTM's desire to provide guidance to the inexperienced user in which template to use, I find it very difficult to navigate; unfortunately, I haven't been able to devise a better way of making it easier. I think you will find that FTM has implemented ESM's templates and will not be changing them. BJ On 1/6/2014 3:50 PM, John Yates wrote: > Russ, > > Well, you seem to prefer to do things manually instead of computerizing > them. > > I prefer to computerize thing so I don't have to do them manually. > What if we carry this to the ridiculous limit: Why use computers at > all since we can do it all manually. > > Proper classification of things also has big payoffs down the road. How > do you think the Green Leaves got so smart? ;-) > > Smart sourcing opens up all kinds of opportunities in addition to > time saving in constructing tens of thousands of source references. > > John > > On 1/6/2014, 5:07 PM, H R Worthington wrote: >> John, >> >> And this is what a Reference Note might look like, using the FTM2014 Template for a City Dirctory: >> >> "U S City Directories, 1821-1989", Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com), accessed 07 May 2012; entry for Joseph Worrell Strode. Citing R. L. Polk & Co's - West Chester Directory 1923-24 (New York, New York; R. L. Polk & Co., 1923) Page 170. >> >> >> Russ >> > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Russ, Well, you seem to prefer to do things manually instead of computerizing them. I prefer to computerize thing so I don't have to do them manually. What if we carry this to the ridiculous limit: Why use computers at all since we can do it all manually. Proper classification of things also has big payoffs down the road. How do you think the Green Leaves got so smart? ;-) Smart sourcing opens up all kinds of opportunities in addition to time saving in constructing tens of thousands of source references. John On 1/6/2014, 5:07 PM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > And this is what a Reference Note might look like, using the FTM2014 Template for a City Dirctory: > > "U S City Directories, 1821-1989", Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com), accessed 07 May 2012; entry for Joseph Worrell Strode. Citing R. L. Polk & Co's - West Chester Directory 1923-24 (New York, New York; R. L. Polk & Co., 1923) Page 170. > > > Russ >

Russ, I am not here to educate you. I suggest you read Elizabeth Shown Mills's book Evidence Explained. And/or have a look at the discussions on the rootsweb TMG list (The Master Genealogist). They talk all the time about new and improved source templates for this that and the other thing. Here is a piece of a recent post there for a City Directory Source: ===== As a lumper, I prefer the source to only be the directory, and I put the page number in [CD] and the details of the family entry in [CM]. Thus I use my generic "published directory" source: FF: [ITAL:][TITLE][:ITAL] [PUBLISHER]<, [LOCATION DETAIL]>, [LOCATION]<, [DATE]><; [VOLUME]>: [CD]<. Cited as [ITAL:][SHORT TITLE][:ITAL]><. [CM]> SF: [ITAL:][SHORT TITLE][:ITAL]<, [LOCATION DETAIL]>, [LOCATION]<, [DATE]><; [VOLUME]>: [CD]<. [CM]> B: [LOCATION]<, [LOCATION DETAIL]><, [DATE]>, [ITAL:][TITLE][:ITAL]<; [VOLUME]>; <[PUBLISHER ADDRESS]: >[PUBLISHER]. <[REPOSITORY REFERENCE]. ><[REPOSITORY]><, [REPOSITORY ADDRESS]><. [ANNOTATION]> I always include a Bibliography, both in SecondSite and reports, so with your data my FF output would only include: City Directory R. L. Polk & Co, Nashville, Tennessee, 1935: page 408. Cited as Polk City Directory. John and Rebecca Doe, ... etc. My Bibliography output would be: Tennessee, Nashville, 1935, City Directory; R. L. Polk & Co. On-line Ancestry.com site, <http://www.Ancestry.com>. Database ... etc. I know you are a "splitter", Teresa, but this might be useful for some other "lumpers" out there. ===== -John On 1/6/2014, 3:36 PM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > I submit to you that the EE Templates do NOT change. > > YOU do NOT have to use the Family Tree Maker / Evidence Explained Templates. > > The Basic SOURCE Elements are the same. > > Please give me ONE example of a TEMPLATE provided by FTM that needs to be changed. What is it now and what should it be. > > Sorry, your example is meaningless to me. > > Thank you, > > Russ > > ___________________________ > > > Mailto:[email protected] > > > ________________________________ > From: John Yates <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 11:42 AM > Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates > > > Russ, > > As I indicated in my previous post, templates do change. So we > should be able to add new ones and change existing ones, not > only different citations based on them. > > However, the *variables* that are used to build the templates should > be very very static and that list change rarely. > > I describe all this here: > http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/GEDCOM/ > > If you are familiar with chemistry, the templates are like compounds, > and the variables are like the elements. > > Variables(Elements): C, H, O, N, ... > Compounds:(Templates): H2O, CO2, ... > > The variables are the building blocks of templates. > The elements are the building blocks of compounds. > > There are about 118 known chemical elements. There were only 103 > when I was young. Pretty static. And all chemical compounds can > be written in terms of formulas (=templates) containing them. > If it can't, a new element is needed. > > A simple analogy, but it makes the point. > > John > > On 1/6/2014, 11:11 AM, H R Worthington wrote: >> John, >> >> To follow up. >> >> I do NOT want to change the Source Template (EE). We have total control of what is in the Reference Note. The Elements of the SOURCE Template are populated for us but the Citation Detail and Citation Text are all ours to complete. >> >> Russ >> >> ___________________________ >> >> >> Mailto:[email protected] >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: John Yates <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:35 AM >> Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates >> >> >> Russ, >> >> Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at >> how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos >> that should show how they do it. >> >> I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that >> the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add >> new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want >> to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at: >> ********************************** >> List information page >> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html >> >> Version 2008 - 2012 >> http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John, Not manually at all. I used the Template Feature. I'm outta here Good luck Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates Russ, Well, you seem to prefer to do things manually instead of computerizing them. I prefer to computerize thing so I don't have to do them manually. What if we carry this to the ridiculous limit: Why use computers at all since we can do it all manually. Proper classification of things also has big payoffs down the road. How do you think the Green Leaves got so smart? ;-) Smart sourcing opens up all kinds of opportunities in addition to time saving in constructing tens of thousands of source references. John On 1/6/2014, 5:07 PM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > And this is what a Reference Note might look like, using the FTM2014 Template for a City Dirctory: > > "U S City Directories, 1821-1989", Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com), accessed 07 May 2012; entry for Joseph Worrell Strode. Citing R. L. Polk & Co's - West Chester Directory 1923-24 (New York, New York; R. L. Polk & Co., 1923) Page 170. > > > Russ > ********************************** List information page http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html Version 2008 - 2012 http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, Don't you think this thread had run its course? If you don't like FTM, I suggest you do not use it. Lawrence On 01-06-2014 15:50, John Yates wrote: > Russ, > > Well, you seem to prefer to do things manually instead of computerizing > them. > > I prefer to computerize thing so I don't have to do them manually. > What if we carry this to the ridiculous limit: Why use computers at > all since we can do it all manually. > > Proper classification of things also has big payoffs down the road. How > do you think the Green Leaves got so smart? ;-) > > Smart sourcing opens up all kinds of opportunities in addition to > time saving in constructing tens of thousands of source references. > > John > > On 1/6/2014, 5:07 PM, H R Worthington wrote: >> John, >> >> And this is what a Reference Note might look like, using the FTM2014 Template for a City Dirctory: >> >> "U S City Directories, 1821-1989", Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com), accessed 07 May 2012; entry for Joseph Worrell Strode. Citing R. L. Polk & Co's - West Chester Directory 1923-24 (New York, New York; R. L. Polk & Co., 1923) Page 170. >> >> >> Russ >> > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John, And this is what a Reference Note might look like, using the FTM2014 Template for a City Dirctory: "U S City Directories, 1821-1989", Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com), accessed 07 May 2012; entry for Joseph Worrell Strode. Citing R. L. Polk & Co's - West Chester Directory 1923-24 (New York, New York; R. L. Polk & Co., 1923) Page 170. Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates Russ, I am not here to educate you. I suggest you read Elizabeth Shown Mills's book Evidence Explained. And/or have a look at the discussions on the rootsweb TMG list (The Master Genealogist). They talk all the time about new and improved source templates for this that and the other thing. Here is a piece of a recent post there for a City Directory Source:

John, The tweaking is not in the SOURCE Elements, but data that CAN BE ADDED in the Citation Details and the Citation Text. Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates Russ, Because they evolve over time. Individual researchers tweak them to their own needs, or the needs of the journals they publish in. New ones are added as the need arises. e.g. Edition 2 of Evidence Explained adds a few new ones. ESM's QuickSheets provide all manner of tweaked ones for different purposes. They are not static over time.

John, I submit to you that the EE Templates do NOT change. YOU do NOT have to use the Family Tree Maker / Evidence Explained Templates. The Basic SOURCE Elements are the same. Please give me ONE example of a TEMPLATE provided by FTM that needs to be changed. What is it now and what should it be. Sorry, your example is meaningless to me. Thank you, Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates Russ, As I indicated in my previous post, templates do change. So we should be able to add new ones and change existing ones, not only different citations based on them. However, the *variables* that are used to build the templates should be very very static and that list change rarely. I describe all this here: http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/GEDCOM/ If you are familiar with chemistry, the templates are like compounds, and the variables are like the elements. Variables(Elements): C, H, O, N, ... Compounds:(Templates): H2O, CO2, ... The variables are the building blocks of templates. The elements are the building blocks of compounds. There are about 118 known chemical elements. There were only 103 when I was young. Pretty static. And all chemical compounds can be written in terms of formulas (=templates) containing them. If it can't, a new element is needed. A simple analogy, but it makes the point. John On 1/6/2014, 11:11 AM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > To follow up. > > I do NOT want to change the Source Template (EE). We have total control of what is in the Reference Note. The Elements of the SOURCE Template are populated for us but the Citation Detail and Citation Text are all ours to complete. > > Russ > > ___________________________ > > > Mailto:[email protected] > > > ________________________________ >  From: John Yates <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates > > > Russ, > > Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at > how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos > that should show how they do it. > > I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that > the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add > new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want > to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at: > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ********************************** List information page http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html Version 2008 - 2012 http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-----Original Message----- From: John Okerson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2014 11:18 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: FTMM 3 questions please Does FTMM 3 make good on the promised fully integrated commonality of dataset between Mac and Windows versions? In other words, can one open a Mac product without conversion in a PC and vice versa? Sure does Bye, bye the arcane file migration utility I have been led to believe that FTMM 3 installs a 64-bit version of itself on a Mac, as FTM 2014 does on a Windows PC IF the hardware meets specific minimum requirements. Would SKS list those requirements for me please. I have an associate who is running a Mac Book Pro with only 2 GB of RAM - does she need to upgrade to 4 GB??? FTMM3 is still only 32-bit On my iMac I have Mac OS-10.8.5 running as 64-bit and FTMM3 (which is 32-bit) installed I also have on the same computer Parallels 7 and Win 7 Pro installed 64-bit I have FTM 2014 installed as 64 bit This set up lets me readily compare the same file in both environments, by clicking between tham and yes I accept that Parallels has some overhead that will slow Windows side down a tad. I have 8 GB of RAM on the Mac and 8 GB of RAM on the Windows side With a 7,500 person file and about 200 media items On most reports an charts Win 2014 (64-bit) is about 30~50% faster than FTM 2012 (32-bit) same file on the same computer FTMM3 (32-bit) is about 30~50% faster than FTM 2014 (64-bit) I also like the fact that FTMM3 loads in 2 seconds (program only) I think the main issue with the Windows version over the Mac version is that the Win version has the overhead of MS .NET and also a number of cab files The Mac OS/FTMM3 does not have this baggage and runs better. Mac users would say "of course!!" On that basis if Ancestry.com releases a 64-bit version of FTMM3 it should run even better The other improvement with FTMM3 is that it is almost parity in features with FTM 2014 Missing are historical events, Smart stories, plug in capability and a few other minor omissions, but all of the critical features are all there and mostly run better than in 2014 In terms of RAM IMO 2 GB is too low for any decent sized file in FTM. (I think it is too low for just about anything else as well) I also think the recommendations from Ancestry re FTM are also too low unless your file is only about 100 names These are the Ancestry.com recommendations Family Tree Maker for Windows Minimum Requirements Operating System Microsoft WindowsR XP SP2 / VistaT / 7/ 8 Processor 500 MHz Intel PentiumR II (or equivalent) Hard Disk 639 MB for installation Memory 512 MB of RAM CD-ROM Drive 2 x CD/CD-R. (Some supplemental products require a DVD-ROM drive) Monitor 800 x 600 resolution monitor Recommended Requirements Operating System Microsoft WindowsR XP SP2 / VistaT / 7/ 8 Processor 1 GHz Intel PentiumR III (or equivalent) Hard Disk 700 MB for installation Memory 1 GB of RAM CD-ROM Drive 32 x CD/CD-R (Some supplemental products require a DVD-ROM drive) Monitor 1024 x 768 resolution monitor Family Tree Maker for Mac Minimum Requirements Operating System Mac OS-X 10.5 or later Processor Intel-based Mac Hard Disk Space 500 MB for installation Memory 512MB of RAM CD-ROM Drive 2 x CD-ROM (required for installation) Display 800 x 600 resolution monitor Recommended System Requirements Operating System Mac OS-X 10.5 or later Processor Intel-based Mac Hard Disk Space 500MB for installation Memory 1GB RAM CD-ROM Drive 32 x CD/CD-R (Some supplemental products require a DVD-ROM drive) Monitor 1024 x 768 resolution monitor My Comments My experience with both Family Tree Maker for Windows and Family Tree Maker for Mac is that even the recommended RAM of 1GB is really too low if you want to run a file over 1,000 people. I would suggest that you have at least 4GB of RAM for 32-bit operation (that is the most that 32-bit Windows can use) and 8 GB of RAM for 64-bit operation. Other programs will run a lot better as well with more RAM. Also, Intel Processors i3 or above, e.g. i5, or better still i7 (or equivalent), will also perform much better than the older Pentiums etc. John D Thanks in advance. John Okerson Lakeland, TN

Russ, As I indicated in my previous post, templates do change. So we should be able to add new ones and change existing ones, not only different citations based on them. However, the *variables* that are used to build the templates should be very very static and that list change rarely. I describe all this here: http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/GEDCOM/ If you are familiar with chemistry, the templates are like compounds, and the variables are like the elements. Variables(Elements): C, H, O, N, ... Compounds:(Templates): H2O, CO2, ... The variables are the building blocks of templates. The elements are the building blocks of compounds. There are about 118 known chemical elements. There were only 103 when I was young. Pretty static. And all chemical compounds can be written in terms of formulas (=templates) containing them. If it can't, a new element is needed. A simple analogy, but it makes the point. John On 1/6/2014, 11:11 AM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > To follow up. > > I do NOT want to change the Source Template (EE). We have total control of what is in the Reference Note. The Elements of the SOURCE Template are populated for us but the Citation Detail and Citation Text are all ours to complete. > > Russ > > ___________________________ > > > Mailto:[email protected] > > > ________________________________ > From: John Yates <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates > > > Russ, > > Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at > how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos > that should show how they do it. > > I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that > the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add > new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want > to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at: > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Russ, Because they evolve over time. Individual researchers tweak them to their own needs, or the needs of the journals they publish in. New ones are added as the need arises. e.g. Edition 2 of Evidence Explained adds a few new ones. ESM's QuickSheets provide all manner of tweaked ones for different purposes. They are not static over time. John On 1/6/2014, 11:08 AM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > Sorry, don't understand. > > WHY would I want to tweek a EE Source Tempate? > > Russ > > ___________________________ > > > Mailto:[email protected] > > > ________________________________ > From: John Yates <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates > > > Russ, > > Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at > how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos > that should show how they do it. > > I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that > the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add > new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want > to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at: > > http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/evidencestyle/esm_templates.txt > > See http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/evidencestyle/ > for a description of the format there. In fact, most of my > needs are described there. > > John > > On 1/6/2014, 7:35 AM, H R Worthington wrote: >> John, >> >> Actually, the Family Tree Maker program, since FTM2010 (if I remember correctly) DOES create EE style Templates. They are also in FTMM-3. >> >> Learning how to use them may take a minute, but once you know what the output contains, what the Source Template contains, the Citation information can be entered in the Citation Detail and Citation Text easily. >> >> I am NOT talking about what Ancestry.com gives us, only what Family Tree Maker can do for us. >> >> Russ >> >> ___________________________ >> >> >> Mailto:[email protected] >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: John Yates <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 10:22 PM >> Subject: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates >> >> >> FTM has embraced Elizabeth Shown Mills style source referencing, but >> only in what I consider a third rate way. >> >> Too many clicks to get to them, and too few degrees of freedom to >> tweak them for real life purposes. >> >> My wish is that they get serious about them and do a first rate job >> of implementing them and letting users define their own as in the >> book Evidence Explained and all the QuickSheets showing templates >> for all manner of source types. >> >> The best implementation I have seen, about a year or more ago, was >> by the Legacy program. It has a large set of templates from Evidence >> Explained, prompts you to fill out the fields for that type in a >> nice form style html window, and off to one site it shows the >> result as you build it. I think it has the Full, Short, and >> Bibliographic(List) styles. (maybe only two, I forget). It didn't >> meet all my criteria for such an implementation, but it was the >> best I've seen. >> >> How about doing this in FTM Ancestry? Your source referencing is >> a mess as far as I am concerned. >> >> Anyone else here like a more Legacy like implementation of this? >> >> (will post this also to feedback in a moment). >> >> John >> ********************************** >> List information page >> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html >> >> Version 2008 - 2012 >> http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> ********************************** >> List information page >> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html >> >> Version 2008 - 2012 >> http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

You appear to have page numbering in an FTMM 3 pedigree chart It is available in the Header/Footer menu item in the RH editing panel This includes options s to nominate a starting number to maybe fit in with a book The chart could then be saved and incorporated in to a book c/w page numbers John D -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Yates Sent: Monday, 6 January 2014 1:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [FTM-TECH] Pedigree Chart Numbering in Book Index Is there a way to number the pages in pedigree charts in FTM Mac 3? I have a book with Title Page, Contents, two Pedigree Charts, Kinship Report, and Index. The Index numbered pages seem to pick up properly after the Pedigree Charts, but also point to page numbers in the Pedigree Charts which are not displayed. What is displayed in the Pedigree Charts are pages that begin with Page 1, as it should be because continuing page numbers with the arrows are designed to be from page 1. But, is there a way to have the actual page number in the book *also* appear on the Pedigree Chart pages in the book? If not, can this be put on Ancestry's wish list? It is a much needed improvement. e.g. a check box in the book layout somewhere of whether you want it or not. Thanks, John ********************************** List information page http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html Version 2008 - 2012 http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Russ, Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos that should show how they do it. I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at: http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/evidencestyle/esm_templates.txt See http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/evidencestyle/ for a description of the format there. In fact, most of my needs are described there. John On 1/6/2014, 7:35 AM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > Actually, the Family Tree Maker program, since FTM2010 (if I remember correctly) DOES create EE style Templates. They are also in FTMM-3. > > Learning how to use them may take a minute, but once you know what the output contains, what the Source Template contains, the Citation information can be entered in the Citation Detail and Citation Text easily. > > I am NOT talking about what Ancestry.com gives us, only what Family Tree Maker can do for us. > > Russ > > ___________________________ > > > Mailto:[email protected] > > > ________________________________ > From: John Yates <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 10:22 PM > Subject: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates > > > FTM has embraced Elizabeth Shown Mills style source referencing, but > only in what I consider a third rate way. > > Too many clicks to get to them, and too few degrees of freedom to > tweak them for real life purposes. > > My wish is that they get serious about them and do a first rate job > of implementing them and letting users define their own as in the > book Evidence Explained and all the QuickSheets showing templates > for all manner of source types. > > The best implementation I have seen, about a year or more ago, was > by the Legacy program. It has a large set of templates from Evidence > Explained, prompts you to fill out the fields for that type in a > nice form style html window, and off to one site it shows the > result as you build it. I think it has the Full, Short, and > Bibliographic(List) styles. (maybe only two, I forget). It didn't > meet all my criteria for such an implementation, but it was the > best I've seen. > > How about doing this in FTM Ancestry? Your source referencing is > a mess as far as I am concerned. > > Anyone else here like a more Legacy like implementation of this? > > (will post this also to feedback in a moment). > > John > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John, To follow up. I do NOT want to change the Source Template (EE). We have total control of what is in the Reference Note. The Elements of the SOURCE Template are populated for us but the Citation Detail and Citation Text are all ours to complete. Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates Russ, Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos that should show how they do it. I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at:

John, Sorry, don't understand. WHY would I want to tweek a EE Source Tempate? Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 6, 2014 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates Russ, Yes, but as I said only in a third rate way. If you can, have a look at how Legacy implements ES (Evidence Style). They have some on line videos that should show how they do it. I just had a new look in FTM at this and it still appears to me that the end user can not edit any of the templates to tweak them, add new ones, add any new categories should that need arise, etc. I want to be able to define all of the ones (and more) as at: http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/evidencestyle/esm_templates.txt See http://jytangledweb.org/genealogy/evidencestyle/ for a description of the format there. In fact, most of my needs are described there. John On 1/6/2014, 7:35 AM, H R Worthington wrote: > John, > > Actually, the Family Tree Maker program, since FTM2010 (if I remember correctly) DOES create EE style Templates. They are also in FTMM-3. > > Learning how to use them may take a minute, but once you know what the output contains, what the Source Template contains, the Citation information can be entered in the Citation Detail and Citation Text easily. > > I am NOT talking about what Ancestry.com gives us, only what Family Tree Maker can do for us. > > Russ > > ___________________________ > > > Mailto:[email protected] > > > ________________________________ >  From: John Yates <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 10:22 PM > Subject: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates > > > FTM has embraced Elizabeth Shown Mills style source referencing, but > only in what I consider a third rate way. > > Too many clicks to get to them, and too few degrees of freedom to > tweak them for real life purposes. > > My wish is that they get serious about them and do a first rate job > of implementing them and letting users define their own as in the > book Evidence Explained and all the QuickSheets showing templates > for all manner of source types. > > The best implementation I have seen, about a year or more ago, was > by the Legacy program. It has a large set of templates from Evidence > Explained, prompts you to fill out the fields for that type in a > nice form style html window, and off to one site it shows the > result as you build it. I think it has the Full, Short, and > Bibliographic(List) styles. (maybe only two, I forget). It didn't > meet all my criteria for such an implementation, but it was the > best I've seen. > > How about doing this in FTM Ancestry? Your source referencing is > a mess as far as I am concerned. > > Anyone else here like a more Legacy like implementation of this? > > (will post this also to feedback in a moment). > > John > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ********************************** List information page http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html Version 2008 - 2012 http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, Actually, the Family Tree Maker program, since FTM2010 (if I remember correctly) DOES create EE style Templates. They are also in FTMM-3.  Learning how to use them may take a minute, but once you know what the output contains, what the Source Template contains, the Citation information can be entered in the Citation Detail and Citation Text easily. I am NOT talking about what Ancestry.com gives us, only what Family Tree Maker can do for us. Russ   ___________________________ Mailto:[email protected] ________________________________ From: John Yates <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 10:22 PM Subject: [FTM-TECH] Evidence Style Source Reference Templates FTM has embraced Elizabeth Shown Mills style source referencing, but only in what I consider a third rate way. Too many clicks to get to them, and too few degrees of freedom to tweak them for real life purposes. My wish is that they get serious about them and do a first rate job of implementing them and letting users define their own as in the book Evidence Explained and all the QuickSheets showing templates for all manner of source types. The best implementation I have seen, about a year or more ago, was by the Legacy program. It has a large set of templates from Evidence Explained, prompts you to fill out the fields for that type in a nice form style html window, and off to one site it shows the result as you build it. I think it has the Full, Short, and Bibliographic(List) styles. (maybe only two, I forget). It didn't meet all my criteria for such an implementation, but it was the best I've seen. How about doing this in FTM Ancestry? Your source referencing is a mess as far as I am concerned. Anyone else here like a more Legacy like implementation of this? (will post this also to feedback in a moment). John ********************************** List information page http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html Version 2008 - 2012 http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

FTM has embraced Elizabeth Shown Mills style source referencing, but only in what I consider a third rate way. Too many clicks to get to them, and too few degrees of freedom to tweak them for real life purposes. My wish is that they get serious about them and do a first rate job of implementing them and letting users define their own as in the book Evidence Explained and all the QuickSheets showing templates for all manner of source types. The best implementation I have seen, about a year or more ago, was by the Legacy program. It has a large set of templates from Evidence Explained, prompts you to fill out the fields for that type in a nice form style html window, and off to one site it shows the result as you build it. I think it has the Full, Short, and Bibliographic(List) styles. (maybe only two, I forget). It didn't meet all my criteria for such an implementation, but it was the best I've seen. How about doing this in FTM Ancestry? Your source referencing is a mess as far as I am concerned. Anyone else here like a more Legacy like implementation of this? (will post this also to feedback in a moment). John

(I will put this in feedback to Ancestry as well as here). I realize that Ancestry FTM wants you to post your trees to their site. I do not do that and can't be convinced to. But I would like to place some navigable trees on my personal web site. To see what I mean see: http://jytangledweb.org/somersfamilytree/ and poke around. Reunion generated this tree. So currently when I want to do this, I export a GEDCOM, import it into Reunion, and generate the html file hierarchy. I simply upload the resulting files and voila, I have a site on my own web site like that above. I would love to be able to do this directly in Ancestry. I think it would be a valuable feature for those of us who avoid uploading our trees to vendor sites. (and in my last message I mentioned that my developing little GEDCOM parsing program may be useful for something. With a little bit of programming I could run this on a GEDCOM of choice and generate my own html version that links much like the Reunion one. But I'd rather have it as a publish option right in FTM). How do others feel about it? If you'd like to see it, please ask for it in feedback. John

For the past few years I have a big note in my FTM file of record (sadly) saying not to trust this file. I had numerous cases of the No Spouse Entered bug. See: https://www.google.com/#q=ancestry+no+spouse+entered+bug As most of the data and features seemed to work, yet on occasion I'd end up in a navigation dead end on a person only in the data once, yet could navigate through a non-dead end if I came upon that individual from a different direction. Someone in Australia (I think) volunteered to look at one of my corrupted data files, and he concluded it was damaged beyond all repair and could not even guess how it had happened. I think it happened when some bad merges were done. That they didn't go well wasn't realized at first, so the files got saved as my only "good" copy eventually. I tried exporting/importing as GEDCOM and it persisted. So... I thought it was still in my file. So a few days ago I started a little project to begin writing a little program to parse and lint check GEDCOMs. I was happily making progress when I discovered that some name look ups returned null strings for some spouses. I looked in the FTM Mac 3 program at the individual, and sure enough I saw the [No Spouse Entered] string! At that point it was good and bad news. Good that I now had a simple tool to find them, bad in that in my file of a little over 2000 individuals I found 46 such entries! I started reading on how to fix the problem (see google search above) and it amounts to finding, detaching, and a few handstands while shaking your right foot in the air. Maybe. So I went back to the FTM program and poked and prodded a bit. It used to be that when you added a spouse when that dreaded string was found, it was retained as a bogus spouse. I tried adding a spouse. It behaved. The new spouse appeared, the No Spouse Entered disappeared, and the spouse count was correct, not incremented. So... it seems that No Spouse Entered is now no longer a bug or a problem. Can someone confirm that for me? And if it is now not a problem in FTM Mac 3 (and latest Windows Version) did having it once be a bug harm my data in any way? I am hoping not. In which case I can trust my data file again. And I'd like my day and a half back of programming to parse GEDCOMs. (Although I think it may develop into a solution for what I will request from Ancestry FTM programmers in my next message). Thanks, John

This might be useful in a pinch, but for general use it should be the programmers who solve it. Thanks, John On 1/5/2014, 6:36 PM, John Donaldson wrote: > You appear to have page numbering in an FTMM 3 pedigree chart > > > It is available in the Header/Footer menu item in the RH editing panel > > This includes options s to nominate a starting number to maybe fit in with a > book > > The chart could then be saved and incorporated in to a book c/w page numbers > > > > John D > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of John Yates > Sent: Monday, 6 January 2014 1:52 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [FTM-TECH] Pedigree Chart Numbering in Book Index > > Is there a way to number the pages in pedigree charts in FTM Mac 3? > I have a book with Title Page, Contents, two Pedigree Charts, Kinship > Report, and Index. > > The Index numbered pages seem to pick up properly after the Pedigree Charts, > but also point to page numbers in the Pedigree Charts which are not > displayed. What is displayed in the Pedigree Charts are pages that begin > with Page 1, as it should be because continuing page numbers with the arrows > are designed to be from page 1. > > But, is there a way to have the actual page number in the book *also* appear > on the Pedigree Chart pages in the book? > > If not, can this be put on Ancestry's wish list? It is a much needed > improvement. e.g. a check box in the book layout somewhere of whether you > want it or not. > > Thanks, > John > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ********************************** > List information page > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Software/FTM-TECH.html > > Version 2008 - 2012 > http://ancestry.custhelp.com/app/home > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >