Emily, Since my last message, I have read Beth McMakin's e-mail to Gary dated 18 Oct 2002 and she mentions members of John ap Evan' family who are on the "Robert and Elizabeth" passenger list but Gwen John is not included as a member of the family. However in her e-mail, dated 15 October 2002 to you , there is a Gwen John, and her children and her husband John Humphrey on the passenger list. Therefore the problem which I am trying to resolve is - Is this Gwen John the daughter of John ap Evan or is it some other Gwen John ? T. A. Glenn in his book claims that she is the daughter of John ap Evan but does not state where he got this evidence from . Opinions and suggestions would be gratefully received !! I have noticed that all the discussions which have taken place on this list since 1999 have not mentioned the very important book "The sufferings of Early Quakers" by Joseph Besse (1753). This book contains a wealth of information about the Welsh Quakers and I wondered if members of the list are aware that it is now available as a facsimile copy .Let me know if you want more details . Elfed.