Jan, Lafford's pension application doesn't have the Bible record in it and it isn't quoted. And since they didn't have copy machines back in 1830, even if it were there it would be a hand written copy or only exerpts as I have in some of the pensions that I have ordered. We are talking about copies of the real bible which were submitted with the application to the DAR. Of course, you are correct if they didn't require the proofs, but with a number as high as 336354 I think that it wouldn't have been too long ago. A funny story. Lafford's sister, Sarah French Moore, widow of Hugh Moore said in her application for the Widow's Pension that the family bible had the pages torn out over the years by the children and finally were lost. I can't imagine that happening since they only had 15 children. Julia In a message dated 7/19/2004 9:16:03 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Just a question. What is the advantage of ordering from the DAR versus the National Archives. I have ordered from the National Archives and it gives you much "original" writing on the documents including who applied for the pension, maybe a bible page, maybe a sister, brother or son gives a deposition about where they might have been married, the service your ancestor served, where and also where he was discharged. These are copies of original pages, not what someone typed up. I have also been told that the prerequisites for joining the DAR was quite different in the old days. Now, the documentation HAS to be proven before you can become a member. Just wondering if I'm missing out on something or if the National Archives is the best place to get these documents. They sure are exciting to see in the old handwriting, telling what they were paid, etc. Jan Lund [email protected]