Julia iif you are a member of the DAR do you still have to pay for the lookup? Thank you Lillian --- [email protected] wrote: > I, just, went to the DAR website and it says that > they charge $30.00 to > search the document files from DAR applications. So > if anyone wants to split the > cost with me to order Lafford's bible record, I will > order it. > Julia > >

What we need from the DAR records is a copy of some of the documentation that was provided to support the application -- specifically, the copy of the family bible. I have never ordered DAR information direct from them. What would be included for $30.00? It looks like Mable Berry Clark submitted Supplemental information after her original application -- or am I misunderstanding what the following means? Lafford French Bible record cited in DAR National # 336354, Mable Berry Clark, Supplemental for Lafford French. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRENCH-L] Lafford FRENCH family bible I, just, went to the DAR website and it says that they charge $30.00 to search the document files from DAR applications. So if anyone wants to split the cost with me to order Lafford's bible record, I will order it. Julia

Found this information in a family tree posted at the following URL. I have found a gold mine of information included with DAR application on other surnames I research. Has anyone obtained the Mable Berry Clark DAR application -- apparently submitted on the RW service of Lafford FRENCH? Does anyone have the records from the NARA for Lafford FRENCH & wife pension application? Does anyone have copies of the Lafford FRENCH family bible? http://www.genealassie.com/mhh/aqwg09.htm#684 228. Lafford FRENCH was born 1753 in Raritan Landing, NJ. He died 11 Sep 1834 in Rutherford Co., NC. Lafford married Hester FEAMSTER before 1788. [Parents] All of the childrens' birth dates are from the Lafford French family Bible which Mable Berry Clark used for the DAR application. 229. Hester FEAMSTER died 1803 in Cowpens, NC, SC?. [Child] 456. Joseph FRENCH Jr. died in Spartanburg Dist, SC. He married Hannah VAN HORNE on 3 Jan 1749. [Parents] 457. Hannah VAN HORNE was born in Raritan Landing, NJ. [Parents] [Child] 914. Simon VAN HORNE died 1726 in Piscataway, Middlesex Co., NJ. He married Sarah OLDEN. 915. Sarah OLDEN was born 18 Jun 1697 in NJ. [Parents]

Thomas, progenitor of the southern ("west") NJ Frenches, was a founding member of the Chester (now Moorestown), NJ, Monthly Meeting. See the link below for George DeCou's book, "Moorestown and Her Neighbors" - click the index link for "Religious Organizations" for the chapter concerning the Moorestown Meeting. For further information on Thomas French, click on the link marked "Pioneer Settlers" and scroll down to the paragraph on Thomas Ffrench. http://www.westjerseyhistory.org/books/decou1/index.shtml Here are some excerpts from the chapter on the Chester Monthly Meeting: "The first Meeting House in Moorestown erected in 1700 was a small log affair and stood on the northwest corner of Main Street and Chester Avenue. Chester Avenue was called the Great Road or Meeting House Lane in the early Meeting records. The lot on which the Meeting House stood was conveyed by James and Esther Adams to Matthew Allen, John Adams, William Hollinshead, Thomas French, Joseph Heritage, Thomas Wallis, John Cowperthwaite, William Matlack, Sarah Roberts (widow of John Roberts), Richard Heritage, all of Chester Township and Thomas Hooton and Timothy Hancock of Evesham Township trustees of Chester Meeting for fourteen shillings lawful money on Second month 9th, 1700. Money had been subscribed for the purchase of this lot and the erection of a Meeting House prior to the transfer of the land as will be clearly shown by the following entry copied from the records of Chester Preparative Meeting under date of Second month 9th, 1700. "Articles of agreement between John Hollinshead, James Adams, Matthew Allen, John Adams, William Hollinshead, Thomas French, Joseph Heritage, Thomas Wallis, John Cowperthwaite, William Matlack, Sarah Roberts, Richard Heritage, Thomas Hooton and Timothy Hancock in manner following: that is to say whereas the said parties (being all of the people of God called Quakers) having heretofore voluntarily contributed and collected among themselves the sum of Seventy-one Pounds, fourteen shillings (or thereabouts) current money for the purchase of land and for building of a Meeting House thereon for the worship of God in spirit and in truth which said acre of land is already purchased and the said house built accordingly." Debbie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [FRENCH-L] FRENCHs as Quakers All, Historically, it is reported that Thomas FRENCH who was a progenitor of FRENCHs in NJ was of the Quaker belief. The devotion to the faith seemed to last several generations as Joseph (third generation) who married Allee gained permission from the Quaker authority before he married. Whether the religion came with that branch of FRENCHs of NJ who went to SC is not known. We only know that they came out of Quaker stock. Since the sons of Joseph and Hannah (Horn) FRENCH (son are fifth generation) participated actively in the RW, it must be assumed they did so outside of the strictures of the Quaker faith. There seems to be a breaking away from the faith. Whether they joined another church is not revealed. >From this it can be surmised that the Quaker records of NJ (pre RW) >should contain references to the FRENCH clan and its several branches. However, the group who went to SC are likely not to have followed the faith and, therefore, would not be in Quaker records (if any) in SC. Anyone care to comment. Best regards, Hugh

This message wasn't received by the list as it seeems that Michael isn't subscribed. Please reply directly to Michael. Julia In a message dated 7/19/2004 8:02:18 AM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Pardon me for intruding but, there is a fellow in town, an older gentleman, who's name is Lifford French. I was wondering if Lifford (a name I've never heard before) could be a corruption of Lafford? Although I have French's in my ancestry, as far as I can tell he's no relation to me. Regards, Michael Davis Athens, aL -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 7:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRENCH-L] French Familes - Lafford French << [email protected] writes: Hugh, I wonder if a search of the early records in Raritan,NJ would reveal the name Lafford. Perhaps it is the name of a friend, or a minister. >> ___________ Doris, The name Lafford/Leffert is relatively sparse, but not as rare as one would think in the time frame we are taking about. Your idea is worth a try. Best regards, Hugh

All, Historically, it is reported that Thomas FRENCH who was a progenitor of FRENCHs in NJ was of the Quaker belief. The devotion to the faith seemed to last several generations as Joseph (third generation) who married Allee gained permission from the Quaker authority before he married. Whether the religion came with that branch of FRENCHs of NJ who went to SC is not known. We only know that they came out of Quaker stock. Since the sons of Joseph and Hannah (Horn) FRENCH (son are fifth generation) participated actively in the RW, it must be assumed they did so outside of the strictures of the Quaker faith. There seems to be a breaking away from the faith. Whether they joined another church is not revealed. From this it can be surmised that the Quaker records of NJ (pre RW) should contain references to the FRENCH clan and its several branches. However, the group who went to SC are likely not to have followed the faith and, therefore, would not be in Quaker records (if any) in SC. Anyone care to comment. Best regards, Hugh

My French ancestors came direct from England and Richard of Elizabethtown is he. I am sure many Frenchs of Europe are related though. William Penn hired many professional tradesmen from England to help build the colonies. My French family is part of this early settling of East New Jersey: The first settlements in New Jersey were made by the Dutch along the western bank of the Hudson, with one on the Delaware at Fort Nassau; but these settlements were insignificant, and the history of the colony properly begins with the occupation of the territory by the English. New Jersey was included in the grant of Charles II to his brother James, the Duke of York, in 1664. The same year James disposed of the province to two of his friends, Lord Berkeley and Sir George Carteret, and it was named in honor of the latter, who had been governor of the island of Jersey in the English Channel. The next year Carteret began to colonize his new possessions. He sent his nephew, Philip Carteret, as governor, who, with a company of emigrants, made the first settlement at Elizabethtown, so named in honor of Sir George's wife. A still larger number came from New England, especially from New Haven, because of the great dissatisfaction in that colony with its forced union with Connecticut. These Puritans founded Newark and adjacent towns. Carteret granted a form of government in what was known as the "Concessions," which granted religious liberty to Englishmen in the new colony, and a government to be carried on by a governor, council, and an assembly of twelve to be chosen by the people, and no taxes were to be laid without the consent of the assembly. A farm, free for five years, was offered to any one "having a good musket... and six months' provisions,"1 who should embark with the governor, or meet him on his arrival; while those who came later were to pay a half-penny an acre quitrent. The first assembly met in 1668, and the severity of the code of laws adopted plainly indicated the Puritan domination of the colony. After a session of but five days it adjourned, and met no more for seven years. The first quitrents fell due in 1670; but many of the settlers refused to pay rent, claiming to have received their lands from the Indians, the real owners, or basing their right to titles confirmed by Governor Nicolls of New York. The people rose in rebellion, elected an illegal assembly, and called James Carteret, illegitimate son of the proprietor, to be their governor. But Sir George did not sustain his son, and the rebellious government fell to the ground. The settlers, however, quietly tilled their farms and gave little heed to matters of government. Not even the reconquest of New York (which included New Jersey) by the Dutch, in 1673, cause any serious disturbance of the New Jersey farmers. The constant commotion between Carteret and his colony discourage Lord Berkeley, and he sold his interest in the province to two English Quakers, John Fenwick and Edward Byllynge. The latter soon became a bankrupt, and his share passed into the hands of trustees, the most prominent of whom was William Penn -- and thus we are introduced to the most famous of American colony builders. The province was soon after this divided (1676) into two parts: East Jersey, which was retained by Carteret, and West Jersey, which now became the property of the Quakers. The line between them was drawn directly from Little Egg Harbor to the Delaware Water Gap. The year before the division Fenwick had led a few colonists and settled at Salem, but the first important settlement in West Jersey was made in 1677, when two hundred and thirty people sailed up the Delaware and founded Burlington, and within two years several hundred more had made their homes in the vicinity. Two wholly separate governments were now set up, and they were as different as white from black. The stern New England Puritans had settled in East Jersey in sufficient numbers to give coloring to the laws, and in these laws (enacted by the first assembly before the division) we find enumerated thirteen crimes for which the penalty was death. In West Jersey the government was exceedingly mild. A code of laws with the name of Penn at the top gave all power to the people, and made no mention of capital punishment. This was the first example of Quaker legislation in America. When Edmund Andros was governor of New York, in the later seventies, he claimed authority over the Jerseys also, as the property of the Duke of York. He arrested and imprisoned Governor Philip Carteret of East Jersey, but the courts decided against Andros, and the Jerseys continued their own separate existence. In 1680 George Carteret died, and two years later East Jersey was sold at auction to twelve men, one of whom was William Penn.2 Each of these twelve men sold half his interest to another man, and thus East Jersey came to have twenty-four proprietors, and they chose Robert Barclay, a Scotch Quaker, governor for life. Everything went smoothly under their mild government; but this tranquility was soon to end. When James II became king of England he demanded the charters of the Jerseys on writes of quo warranto, leaving the ownership of the soil to the people, and united East and West Jersey to New York and New England under the government of Andros. At the fall of the king and the expulsion of Andros the Jerseys were left in a state of anarchy, and so it continued for more than ten years. The heirs of Carteret and the Quakers laid claim to the colony; and New York made a similar claim. After a long season of confusion it was decided to surrender the whole colony to the Crown, and in 1702 New Jersey became a royal province. Queen Anne, who was now the reigning monarch, extended the jurisdiction of New York's governor over New Jersey, and this arrangement continued for thirty-six years, when in 1738, the two colonies were finally separated. New Jersey, numbering some seventy-five thousand inhabitants in 1760, was settled almost wholly by English people. A few Dutch, Swedes, and Germans were scattered here and there, but no in such numbers as to affect society. The Quakers occupied the western part, while the eastern portion was settled by emigrants from England, New England, and a few from Scotland and the southern colonies. Almost the entire population were farmers. The numerous towns were little more than centers of farming communities. The colony was guarded, as it were, on the east and west by the two great colonies of New York and Pennsylvania, and it escaped those peculiar perils of frontier life with which most of the other settlements had to contend. This was doubtless the chief cause of its rapid growth. New Jersey was also singularly free from Indian wars, the people living on the most friendly terms with the red men, with whom they kept up a profitable trade in furs and game. Footnotes 1One seventh of the land was to be reserved for the proprietors and two hundred acres in each parish for the minister. See Winsor, Vol. III, p. 424.[return] 2The price paid was £3400 sterling.[return] Source: "History of the United States of America," by Henry William Elson, The MacMillan Company, New York, 1904. Chapter VII pp. 146-149. Transcribed by Kathy Leigh. History of the United States of America http://www.usahistory.info/colonies/New-Jersey.html

God, 80 would feel like a cold front here in Louisiana. We are in the upper 80s and 90s and 100% humidity. Researching FRENCH, Nash, HILL, Manuel, Pack, Stroud, BONHILL, Byrne to name a few in Arkansas, Tennessee and points EAst. Rebecca Pack

Julia, I know what you mean about the heat and humidity. . I grew up in greater Kansas City Area. Although as a youth, I do not remember being bothered by it. I go back now to visit family only in spring and fall. Out here on the WN coast, I think we have a heat wave when it reaches high 70's/low 80's. Garland

In a message dated 7/18/2004 10:48:38 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: < By the way, In another correspondence, you mentioned something about the heat in LA.. I can relate to that, we live on the Washington coast. It reached near 80 the other day. Thought we would die. Thanks, Garland > 80? We get to 80 in January sometimes. It has been close to 100 here with high humidity. Julia

Julia, Your "internet" point is well taken. I did not attach much to the Mississippi or Uriah connection, but wandered if you or others had encountered it. It was the additional children names that caught my attention. They, as I said, filled a gap in birth dates. Dates fit, location did not. If the children were born in SC or GA, it would work. One of the names was Thomas, which is a name I asked about some weeks ago....."Thomas" who died on the steamboat trip home from New Orleans at end of war of 1812. That Thomas was with Gideon, Samuel C. and Marshal in the same company from Stewart County. I havn't been able to connect that Thomas to a father, but I "suspect" that he "may" have been a son of Samuel (Jr). Could also have been son of Thomas (Samuel's brother), or unrelated....that's why I asked. By the way, In another correspondence, you mentioned something about the heat in LA.. I can relate to that, we live on the Washington coast. It reached near 80 the other day. Thought we would die. Thanks, Garland

Garland, The Internet is wonderful, but the problelm is that once erronous data gets out there, it is impossible to get it back. Uriah may have had a son named Samuel, but he is not our Samuel and ours was never in MS, although he was, just about everywhere else. We only have our research back to Anson Co., NC where Samuel was on the tax list or serving on a Jury as early as 1748. There were no documents to get us back any farther, but my nephew's DNA matches all the lines in NJ, which proves that we are related to them. Since all my other lines that intermarried with the Samuel French line came from NJ, i.e., Anderson, Moore, and the Lafford French line, I think we can feel very sure that our Samuel or his father came from NJ, too. BTW, the Samuel who married Mary Wayne remained in NJ. I believe that he is the one who has a daughter named, Hope. Julia In a message dated 7/18/2004 8:31:14 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Julia, We share common ggggrandfather....Gideon Richard. What is the NJ line you referred to? Thomas (from DNA project)? What is the South Carolina connection? Samuel (Jr) or the Lafford line that there is so much about? I have big gap between NC and TN for Samuel, have a GA connection, I think? But SC? By the way, I have seen a Rootsweb World Tree that shows Samuel (Jr) as son of a Uriah French of NJ. It shows Samuel Married to Mary Wayne and having children born in Mississippi. These are new names to me and fit in a gap between the names I have, so I find that part interesting. The source shows them born in Lincoln County Missippi, which did not exist at the time, although earlier counties were along the same area of Missippi river.. Are you aware of this? Garland French

Julia, We share common ggggrandfather....Gideon Richard. What is the NJ line you referred to? Thomas (from DNA project)? What is the South Carolina connection? Samuel (Jr) or the Lafford line that there is so much about? I have big gap between NC and TN for Samuel, have a GA connection, I think? But SC? By the way, I have seen a Rootsweb World Tree that shows Samuel (Jr) as son of a Uriah French of NJ. It shows Samuel Married to Mary Wayne and having children born in Mississippi. These are new names to me and fit in a gap between the names I have, so I find that part interesting. The source shows them born in Lincoln County Missippi, which did not exist at the time, although earlier counties were along the same area of Missippi river.. Are you aware of this? Garland French

Yes, Rebecca I am down here in the heat. They say that a cold front came through last night. If so, it cooled us about one degree. My French line came out of NJ to NC to GA to SC to TN to AR. Julia In a message dated 7/18/2004 4:42:51 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Julia, I didn't know you lived in New Orleans. I'm in Lake Charles, LA. My FRENCH came out of Virginia and ended up in Arkansas. Rebecca Pack

Julia, I didn't know you lived in New Orleans. I'm in Lake Charles, LA. My FRENCH came out of Virginia and ended up in Arkansas. Rebecca Pack

Perhaps the desire to participate in the Revolutionary War caused some men to leave the Quaker Society. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 4:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRENCH-L] Lafford/Leffert FRENCH, b. 1753 Perhaps because they married German wives, the religion changed. Here in New Orleans where many mixed religion marriages occur, the religion of children is, always, determined by the mother. Julia In a message dated 7/18/2004 3:55:55 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: There do seem to be a couple of political & religious differences among our early American French's. The Joseph and Richard at Oldwick in Hunterdon christened their children at Zion Lutheran in the 1770's and 80's. My Sussex County Richard used the Lutheran church at Walpack in the 1790's and 1800-1809. Dick French

"Genealogy of the Descendants of Thomas French" by Howard Barclay French, Volume I p 116--Thomas FRENCH and Mary ALLEN, daughter of Judah and Mary ALLEN of Shrewsbury, N.J. p 136--Joseph French, son of Thomas FRENCH and Mary ALLEN mentioned in Minutes of Newton Mo. Mtg., Haddonfield Quarter, 8th and 9th month 1722 regarding application for a Certificate in preparation for marriage. "Joseph French, like his father, sought a wife in East Jersey, and it appears early located in or near Shrewsbury, Monmouth County, where, so far as can be learned, he continued to reside until his death in 1752. He died intestate and the estate was administered by James Farrell, who had married Joseph's daughter Mary in 1751." p 138--Haddonfield Meeting In 1721 the first meeting house. . .was erected on land given by John Haddon, of England. . . . These minutes are still in the custody of descendants of the Haddon family. p 149--the records at the first county seat, Gloucester, were destroyed through the burning of the old court house, in 1786. p 151--at the Burlington Monthly Meeting, Charles French, uncle of above Joseph, in 1707, requested a certificate to [Shrewsbury] month meeting on the account of taking a wife thereto belonging. First name shown, pg 149, was Elinor ________.

Perhaps because they married German wives, the religion changed. Here in New Orleans where many mixed religion marriages occur, the religion of children is, always, determined by the mother. Julia In a message dated 7/18/2004 3:55:55 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: There do seem to be a couple of political & religious differences among our early American French's. The Joseph and Richard at Oldwick in Hunterdon christened their children at Zion Lutheran in the 1770's and 80's. My Sussex County Richard used the Lutheran church at Walpack in the 1790's and 1800-1809. Dick French

Another possibility I found on a website. Allee morphed from D'Ailly: Children of Susanna LaRue Helling and Jan D'Ailly are: 2 i. Jannetje Allee was born ABT 1685 in NJ. + 3 ii. Pieter Allee was born ABT 1688 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. + 4 iii. Abraham Allee was born ABT 1690 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ, and died 8 MAY 1770 in Kent Co., DE. 5 iv. Johannes Allee was born ABT 1693 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 6 v. Susannah Allee was born ABT 1694 in NJ. + 7 vi. Jacobus Allee was born ABT 1699 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 8 vii. Hannah Ann Allee was born ABT 1702 in NJ. 9 viii. Maritie Allee was born ABT 1704 in NJ. 10 ix. Elizabeth Allee was born ABT 1706 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 11 x. Rachel Allee was born ABT 1708 in NJ. 3. Pieter Allee (Susanna LaRue Helling1) was born ABT 1688 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. He married Margritie Alberse Van Voorhees. She was born ABT 1690. Children of Pieter Allee and Margritie Alberse Van Voorhees are: 12 i. Susanna Allee was born 7 APR 1717 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. + 13 ii. Johannes Allee was born 5 FEB 1720/21 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 14 iii. Rachel Allee was born 17 FEB 1722/23 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. + 15 iv. Albert A. Allee was born 15 APR 1725 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 16 v. Abram Allee was born 7 JUL 1727 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 4. Abraham Allee (Susanna LaRue Helling1) was born ABT 1690 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ, and died 8 MAY 1770 in Kent Co., DE. He married Mary Raymond ABT 1729 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. She was born ABT 1690 in NJ, and died ABT 1776. Children of Abraham Allee and Mary Raymond are:+ 17 i. John Allee was born ABT 1720 in , Kent, DE. 18 ii. Mary Allee was born ABT 1732 in , Kent, DE. + 19 iii. Abraham Allee was born ABT 1734 in , Kent, DE. 20 iv. Sarah Allee was born ABT 1735 in , Kent, DE. 7. Jacobus Allee (Susanna LaRue Helling1) was born ABT 1699 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. He married Annaetje Zika. She was born ABT 1710 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. Children of Jacobus Allee and Annaetje Zika are: 21 i. John Allee was born ABT 1735 in Hackensack, Bergen, NJ. 22 ii. Margrieta Allee was born 4 MAY 1752. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 3:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRENCH-L] Joseph FRENCH and wife, Allee. In a message dated 7/18/04 2:34:45 PM, [email protected] writes: << I often wonder when I see your discussions of "Allee" FRENCH if this was just a misreading of Alice. The lower case "i" could look like an "l" and it is easy to mistake a "c" for an "e". >> ______ Kathy, It is a useful thought, however there is another record that lists Joseph's wife as Allee. In a presentation I have seen it as "Alice Allee", but it wasn't documented. Best regards, Hugh

In a message dated 7/18/04 2:34:45 PM, [email protected] writes: << I often wonder when I see your discussions of "Allee" FRENCH if this was just a misreading of Alice. The lower case "i" could look like an "l" and it is easy to mistake a "c" for an "e". >> ______ Kathy, It is a useful thought, however there is another record that lists Joseph's wife as Allee. In a presentation I have seen it as "Alice Allee", but it wasn't documented. Best regards, Hugh