In a message dated 7/24/04 3:30:33 PM, [email protected] writes: << I know my particular line [William reportedly moved NC - SC - TN - IL]was said to live near the North Carolina/South Carolina line.>> ________ To which William FRENCH are you descended? I am descended from William FRENCH (SC-KY-TN, or so we think), s/o Joseph and Hannah (Horn) FRENCH. Need to know if we are talking about the same person. If so, I need to know more about NC - SC - TN - IL. Best regards, Hugh

Would one or the other do so if I paid for it? It is so important because it is hard to find male French lines anymore. I know, let Julia talk to them. (Smile) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 5:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRENCH-L] DNA Testing Thank you Julia for your response. I rather figured that he wouldn't, but it was worth a try. Neither of my brother's are willing, and have no male cousins in the French line that would be willing. Guess I'm rather "stuck out". Jo Ann Out going mail is CERTIFIED~ VIRUS FREE. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 481 Released Date: 7/22/04

In investigating URL <http://sc_tories.tripod.com/james_cook's_map.htm> provided by <[email protected]> I found the Pacolet River (NC and SC) on a Cook's Map of 1772. What is needed is a map of properties held in the area in around 1773. Specifically, a map which would show who lived on the Pacolet River and the surrounding counties that existed at the time in both NC and SC. Of course, the search is for properties owned by the FRENCH family. Best regards, Hugh

I don't know where to look for maps of land owners/land location information for the Carolinas. Anyone have experience in locating this type of information? For "Federal Land States" it is fairly easy to obtain the original land owner's names, with exact locations, free of charge, via the internet. Looking at the information from the land deeds -- I believe the NJ FRENCH settled in/around the triangular area defined by the North Pacolet River, Bear Creek and the Province Boundary. I know my particular line [William reportedly moved NC - SC - TN - IL]was said to live near the North Carolina/South Carolina line. It is very possible that a change from NC to SC (or SC to NC) did not mean the family moved, but rather the boundary line changed. It is also possible that some of their land was "on the border." -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 1:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [FRENCH-L] Pacolet River NC > SC In investigating URL <http://sc_tories.tripod.com/james_cook's_map.htm> provided by <[email protected]> I found the Pacolet River (NC and SC) on a Cook's Map of 1772. What is needed is a map of properties held in the area in around 1773. Specifically, a map which would show who lived on the Pacolet River and the surrounding counties that existed at the time in both NC and SC. Of course, the search is for properties owned by the FRENCH family. Best regards, Hugh

Thank you Julia for your response. I rather figured that he wouldn't, but it was worth a try. Neither of my brother's are willing, and have no male cousins in the French line that would be willing. Guess I'm rather "stuck out". Jo Ann Out going mail is CERTIFIED~ VIRUS FREE. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 481 Released Date: 7/22/04

I have been following the research on the French Family and was interested in this about N.Y. Years ago I came across the very early history of New York. It turns out that the party that first settled there had no Dutch among them. They had all been recruited from the French Huguenots (Protestants) who had fled France and taken shelter in Holland. They were the ones who bought the island from the Indians and settled it. When it seemed to be working the Dutch sent in their own administrators and there developed a problem between the two groups. The original French settlers left and started New Rochelle. I wonder if some of them went south also? Tom Thomason

Here is a web link but I hope someone out there will be able to answer you correctly: http://www.familytreedna.com/

On this DNA testing, could my son, be worked in on this? I am a "blood French Line", would there be enough markers to count with him? Since I do not know all the in's and out's on DNA, I am just wondering, Thank's Jo Ann French~Campbell [email protected] Out going mail is CERTIFIED~ VIRUS FREE. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 481 Released Date: 7/22/04

Forgot the URL http://www.upstateforever.org/newsletters/August%20'01%20Newsletter/FourColumn s8_01.htm Julia

The former home of Bayliss Earl (He signed many of the documents that I have seen that pertain to our French line and my Moore line of that area) is on the North Pacolet River in Spartenburg Co., SC. The Col. Charles McDowell was the head of the group that Lafford and his brothers and my Moores served in. So the description below is, most likely, the action of that group. "The property was the home of Baylis Earle (1734-1825) and four succeeding generations of his family. Earle's original residence appears to have been located between the current residence and the river and, according to local historians, was used as a recruiting post for local Patriot militia during the American Revolution. "Earle's Ford," a river crossing located at or near the junction of present-day Highway 14 and the North Pacolet River, was a local landmark and the site of an important Revolutionary War battle on July 14 and 15, 1780. On the evening of July 14, British and Loyalist forces arrived at Earle's farm, crossed the river, and attacked the Patriot forces camped at the top of the wooded hill to the east (near the site of Brannon's Restaurant). The attack was repulsed and the British retreated back across the river, establishing a defensive position at Earle's farm. At daybreak the following day, Colonel Charles McDowell and Colonel Edward Hampton (the son-in-law of Baylis Earle and brother of Wade Hampton I) led a mounted force across the river and attacked the British position, forcing their retreat from the property. This victory, along with other Patriot victories in the area during the summer of 1780, provided the much-needed momentum that culminated in the stunning American triumphs at King's Mountain and Cowpens. " Julia

What a nice reply. My family's DNA shows just that combination that we seem to be a mixture of England, Scotland, Germany, France, and the Nordic variety. Our 37 marker results came in along with updated results of these early migrations. I am sure when David up dates our DNA website those of us who upgraded to 37 test using the same DNA sample, will be posted then. (#119) Our new last 12 markers were an exact match with another member's new last 12, but at the same time moving 5 markers away from another. I certainly hope more French surname members will be able to take these tests too. Anyway, I love the history behind the entire colonial movement of all the families. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRENCH-L] Re: Dutch NJ I have been following the research on the French Family and was interested in this about N.Y. Years ago I came across the very early history of New York. It turns out that the party that first settled there had no Dutch among them. They had all been recruited from the French Huguenots (Protestants) who had fled France and taken shelter in Holland. They were the ones who bought the island from the Indians and settled it. When it seemed to be working the Dutch sent in their own administrators and there developed a problem between the two groups. The original French settlers left and started New Rochelle. I wonder if some of them went south also? Tom Thomason

"During the summer months, the French Broad River is an excellent site for white-water rafting and canoeing. In addition to its natural scenic qualities, the byway also holds historical points of interest. The river was named for the French who settled in the territory during the 1700s." http://www.byways.org/browse/byways/12822/ " Index Meaning of Place Name: French Broad French Broad: River in North Carolina, so named because the country west of the Blue Ridge was held by the French, according to some authorities. Others hold that the river was named by a party of hunters for their captain, whose name was French. The latter part of the name is used descriptively." http://www.sacklunch.net/placenames/F/FrenchBroad.html http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:I1FZkFektUgJ:www.riverlink.org/riverguide .pdf+French+Broad+River+was+named+for&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Julia

In a message dated 7/24/2004 6:16:05 AM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: >> Since Joseph (Jr.) was left on 5 pounds and no property that he was not considered mature enough to do the administrator's job. << Usually if a child was left only 5 pounds (sometimes only one shilling) it denotes the he has already received his portion and is most likely married. <<The sale of the property formerly that of Joseph FRENCH in 1765 could be either father or son. Since Joseph (Sr.) died in 1752, some 13 years had passed before the offer for sale which seems strange. Perhaps the administration record of Joseph's estate (if available) would reveal more. << You don't say who sold this property. If a Joseph sold it, that was Joseph, Jr. and the land that he obtained before his father's death. If James Farrelll sold it, it was part of the estate, but should say "formerly that of Joseph French" but the estate of. It wasn't unusual to have 13 years pass for selling property, especially if there were minor children. Julia

The Pacolet River flows easterly from Hendersonville just north of the NC-SC border and parallel to the border before it takes a south easterly direction into SC where it merges and becomes the Broad River. There is a South Pacolet River in SC which is a tributary of the main Pacolet River. There seems to be a unique weather area and must have been favorable to early settlers to include the FRENCHs. There is still a need to identify the French Broad River and the reason for its name. Best regards, Hugh

In a message dated 7/24/04 12:43:58 AM, [email protected] writes: << My maps show Craven Co. is in NC One county over from Onslow Co. NC. I'm wondering if the person presenting was living in Craven County at that time. >> _________________________ The two Craven Cos (NC and SC) do not seem related. Initially the Carolinas were administered as one. In 1691 the two entities (North Carolina and South Carolina) were established. Craven Co., NC was established in 1714. As <[email protected]> has pointed out SC was divided loosely into four counties (including Craven Co.) which in 1769 (7) and in 1795 (2) were divided into 9 judicial districts at which event Craven Co., SC was disestablished. The term, District, was substituted for county. This remained true until after the Civil War when the term, county, was reintroduced. In 1798 the nine Districts were formed into 24 Districts. [Source: (1) Funk and Wagnall Standard Reference Encyclopedia, (2) The Handybook for Genealogists, USA] Best regards, Hugh

In a message dated 7/24/04 1:03:53 AM, [email protected] writes: << Joseph French died in 1752 [abt 54 yrs old]. He died intestate and the estate was administered by James Farrell, who had married Joseph's daughter Mary in 1751. Why was his son-in-law, James Farrel, the Administrator? Had all of his other sons and son-in-laws moved from the area or died? Joseph FRENCH was quite young when he died. Did he have young children still at home? Could it be his property advertised for sale in 1765? >> ________________ Joseph was about 54. He had been married 30 years. It seems likely that his children would be at most 30 years old. We know son, Joseph, was born after 1722, perhaps as late as 1727, thus he would be around 25-30. The only other birth date for another son, Aaron, is 1739, followed by two additional sons, Francis and David. Aaron was about 13 when Joseph died and the others are presumed younger. So, Joseph did have pre adult children in his household. This would suggest that James Ferrel was the trusted adult to administer Joseph's estate. Son, Joseph (Jr.) who was married in 1749 to Hannah Horn, apparently, was not present nor available for this task. Since Joseph (Jr.) was left on 5 pounds and no property that he was not considered mature enough to do the administrator's job. The sale of the property formerly that of Joseph FRENCH in 1765 could be either father or son. Since Joseph (Sr.) died in 1752, some 13 years had passed before the offer for sale which seems strange. Perhaps the administration record of Joseph's estate (if available) would reveal more. You are doing great work on this matter and I thank you. Best regards, Hugh

Here is a book review about it: Russell Shorto fires a powerful salvo in the war of words over America's origins. Forcefully contesting the ingrained notion that English settlements set the mold for American values, he mounts a convincing case for an alternative scenario, in which the Dutch-sponsored colony of New Netherland, and particularly its capital of New Amsterdam, played a decisive role in anticipating the social patterns and ways of thinking that have since come to define this country. In Shorto's words, "Manhattan is where America began." To substantiate his claim, Shorto, an accomplished journalist with two previous books to his credit, has crafted an entertaining and enlightening work that brings into focus the long submerged and perennially distorted history of the colonial Dutch. Admittedly building on the findings and insights of a generation of scholars that has meticulously documented the Dutch imprint on the Mid-Atlantic region, Shorto aims to extract a meaning from this distant past for the present. Dutch Manhattan, in his eyes, was the true progenitor of the global city that is the heart of America today, the city where people of remarkably diverse backgrounds peaceably coexist. By telling its story, Shorto hopes to lay bare the genius of America. Shorto's book operates on three levels. First and foremost, it offers a sweeping narrative of Dutch colonization in North America from Henry Hudson's voyage of exploration in 1609 (Hudson was an Englishman who worked for the Dutch) to the surrender of New Netherland to the English in 1664. The nuanced rendering of the interaction of European settlers and Native Americans over the decades is particularly welcome, since it demonstrates how seamlessly Indians were woven into the fabric of the city's history. Shorto's scope, though, is anything but provincial, as he deftly shows how the fortunes of New Netherlanders were linked to developments around the Atlantic and beyond. He makes clear how the intensifying rivalry between the Dutch Republic and England over the lucrative international trade reverberated across the ocean, not only in New Netherland but also in the neighboring Puritan colonies of New England. The transatlantic reach of the narrative is matched by its vivid close-ups of people and places. Readers are transported to the world of the 17th century, as Shorto, with an eye for telling detail, evokes the sights, sounds and smells of Amsterdam, Leiden, the Hague and London, as well as the streets of New Amsterdam, and probes the personalities of enigmatic historical figures, ranging from Henry Hudson, Oliver Cromwell, Charles II, the Duke of York (later James II), George Downing, and Willem II, Prince of Orange, to Peter Minuit and Peter Stuyvesant. Readers also find themselves absorbed in what can only be described as a plot, revolving around two strong men with conflicting visions of the future of Dutch North America. Director-General Peter Stuyvesant, a minister's son and seasoned military man, representing the powers that be, exhibits unswerving loyalty to his employer, the Dutch West India Company. Conceiving of the world in terms of dogma and duty, Stuyvesant stands in marked contrast to his opponent, Adriaen van der Donck, a young lawyer of good family, newly embarked on an as yet undefined career in the wilderness. Cast by Shorto as the epitome of the modern-forward-looking, inclined to tolerance and committed to the virtues of free trade-Van der Donck vaults to prominence as the ideologue and political leader of the colonists, as they clamor for a voice in government following the debacle of an Indian war started by Stuyvesant's predecessor. The story unfolds on both sides of the Atlantic and intersects with the drama of the Anglo-Dutch struggle for empire. Its recurrent theme is that the New Amsterdam model of an open society rooted in free trade, unfettered opportunity and a live-and-let-live mentality set the course on which the nation would eventually embark. The Island at the Center of the World is more than a grand narrative. It intentionally goes behind the scenes to comment on the raw material of history, in this case the 17th-century Dutch colony's records. Hereby hangs a fascinating and cautionary tale, of the incredible survival of these records over the centuries through fire, flood and war, and of repeated unsuccessful attempts to procure accurate English translations until the 1970's, when a linguistics scholar named Charles Gehring commenced the herculean (and still continuing) labor of translating these documents. The neglect of the Dutch colonial roots of American history, Shorto stresses, is in no small measure attributable to the recurring failures to make this massive corpus of Dutch records available in English. Once Gehring's translations started appearing, a major hurdle to giving the Dutch credit for their accomplishments was removed. The stage was set for a fresh look at the nation's origins. This brings us to the third and most profound level of Shorto's book. In essence, it is a meditation on historical memory. The author's eagerness to puncture the protective gauze of Anglophilia that has encircled most accounts of America's history, popular and professional, is justifiable. Having assembled a mountain of evidence documenting the crucial role of the Dutch in the power struggles that shaped the 17th-century Atlantic, Shorto has every right to urge that New Amsterdam be moved to center stage in future versions of America's beginnings. But in his zeal to elevate the tolerant Dutch to a place of honor in our national historical memory, he has smoothed over too many of New Amsterdam's rough edges and overlooked the alien character of the distant past. Africans were enslaved in New Amsterdam, and the Dutch were the premier players in the transatlantic slave trade. Despite the practice of religious toleration in Amsterdam, Peter Stuyvesant, strict Calvinist that he was, did persecute the Lutherans and the Jews, and even ordered a Quaker missionary to be whipped publicly in New Amsterdam, a fault for which Shorto roundly condemns the New England Puritans. But this, after all, was the 17th century, when the notion of human equality was in its infancy. Shorto need not shy away from Dutch shortcomings. Yet his determination to show how the seeds of tolerance have flowered in 21st-century New York causes him not only to make too much of the precedents etched in New Amsterdam, but to misconstrue their significance. Surely, the small Dutch city's diversity is of note, especially when compared to its counterparts in the colonial world, but to conflate diversity and modern-day pluralism is to make an unwarranted conceptual leap. Telescoping history in this way does not serve Shorto well, and detracts from an otherwise edifying survey of New Amsterdam and its place in the world of the 17th century. Joyce D. Goodfriend Joyce D. Goodfriend, professor of history at the University of Denver, is author of Before the Melting Pot: Society and Culture in Colonial New York City, 1664-1730 (Princeton University Press -----Original Message----- From: Donald Hartwick [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 1:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [FRENCH-L] Re: Dutch NJ A new book, "The Island at the Center of the World", is based on recent discovery and translation of Dutch settlement documents. Author' s name Shorto.

A new book, "The Island at the Center of the World", is based on recent discovery and translation of Dutch settlement documents. Author' s name Shorto.

South Carolina County Boundaries during the Period 1682-1785 During most of South Carolina's colonial history, the colony was divided into only four counties as shown in the following map. County boundaries in the South Carolina backcountry were only vaguely defined. In particular, land tracts lying in the area between the Broad and Saluda Rivers were, in some land records, stated to be in Craven County, and, in other records, to be in Berkeley County. It should be noted, that even though these four counties had been established, all official record keeping was performed in Charleston until 1785. Also, until 1769, the courts met only in Charleston. Formation dates for the four counties are as follows: Craven 1682 Berkeley 1682 Colleton 1682 Granville 1710 http://sc_tories.tripod.com/county_boundaries_1682-1785.htm

Pacolet River Byway http://www.byways.org/browse/byways/12835/