Barry, You did all those CSS tables, which I appreciate. But I'm having such trouble knowing which one to pick for each table. And I don't know how to adjust it as needed. Converting the tables has become a #1 irritant. I'm ready to remove tables from the CSS (into a new file) and leaving all my htlm tables alone. However, thought I'd ask if we can get one table in ext CSS, like the ones I prefer.... See these on the orginial pages http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives1.htm http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives2.htm http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives3.htm What I like:: Can add rows and columns as I need. A whole column can be nearly empty (for future use, or intermittent use). Cells are just the height of text, like Mary Jane Smith.. Name cells just expand as needed. If text is longer than the cell, it just drops to the next line etc. until the text ends. No margins or no big margins around text. Outside border is thin lined, and not dark and bold. Most tables can be 98 to 100% width of the content area. Most of my tables are wide 100%, and extra long (ex. cemetery census). Any ideas to give me hope ? LOL Don't want to still be converting pages here when I'm 150 yrs old. Judy

I've been just sitting here watching and wondering: What's wrong with tables? I'm a big proponent of the K. I. S. S Principle. If the material in question is best suited for a table format why not use one. I admit, in the past tables were vastly over used. I used to put entire pages inside tables. There just wasn't any other way to get what I wanted. Now I can use "container" and "content" to get it. Times change and I changed with them. I haven't really been looking at what Barry has done to reinvent the table format with CSS but it seems to me to be way more complicated than just using a table. I guess what I'm really asking is, "just because it can be done does it really make sense to do it?" Remember - K. I. S. S. On 08/19/2018 11:33 AM, JFlorian wrote: > Barry, > > You did all those CSS tables, which I appreciate. But I'm having such > trouble knowing which one to pick for each table. And I don't know how to > adjust it as needed. Converting the tables has become a #1 irritant. I'm > ready to remove tables from the CSS (into a new file) and leaving all my > htlm tables alone. > > > However, thought I'd ask if we can get one table in ext CSS, like the ones > I prefer.... > > See these on the orginial pages > http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives1.htm > > http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives2.htm > > http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives3.htm > > > What I like:: > Can add rows and columns as I need. > A whole column can be nearly empty (for future use, or intermittent use). > Cells are just the height of text, like Mary Jane Smith.. > Name cells just expand as needed. > If text is longer than the cell, it just drops to the next line etc. until > the text ends. > No margins or no big margins around text. > Outside border is thin lined, and not dark and bold. > Most tables can be 98 to 100% width of the content area. > > > Most of my tables are wide 100%, and extra long (ex. cemetery census). > > > Any ideas to give me hope ? LOL Don't want to still be converting pages > here when I'm 150 yrs old. > > Judy > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/freepages-help > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community > -- "The dog is a gentleman. I hope to go to his heaven, not man's." Mark Twain

I just want the css-conversion pain to end, LOL. I'm not even half done and have a table heavy website. I got to tackle pictures too, which needs a new Ext CSS file I think. One good note: I am getting better with applying CSS, after years of help and years of struggle over it. Barry with his stylesheet, Pat G, Pat A, and others on the list keep teaching me. When I earn a C grade, let me know! LOL

At 01:20 PM 8/19/2018, Billie Walsh wrote: >I've been just sitting here watching and wondering: > >What's wrong with tables? > >I'm a big proponent of the K. I. S. S Principle. If the material in >question is best suited for a table format why not use one. Mobile-friendly has become the standard for user-friendly web sites. As a general rule, tables are used to display data in an organized way and the resulting multi-column tables are difficult if not impossible to make mobile-friendly. That said, while I am still working on converting all of my sites to make them mobile-friendly, genealogy sites are largely data oriented -- census data; birth, marriage and death data; cemetery indexes; etc. Many times the only concise way to display this type of data is using tables. So, even though my sites as a whole use a mobile-friendly design, I still use tables when necessary. And if a visitor is using a small screen device to do his/her genealogy research, s/he'll just have to slide the table around the screen to see what it contains ;-) Pat A.

"...difficult if not impossible to make mobile friendly..." Thanks Pat. I could not agree more. Genealogy sites are generally full of conventionally structured 'Pedigree charts', 'Ancestor Charts' etc. The only way to display them properly is by the use of tables. Some of my charts are nested tables four deep. I can't think how else to display them in a meaningful and recognized way that can be easily viewed by an iPhone user, (say). I can only hope that any visitor who is seriously interested in genealogy research will take the trouble to find a PC with a decent sized monitor or be prepared to do an awful lot of horizontal scrolling! Derek Boddington -----Original Message----- From: Pat Asher <pjroots@att.net> Sent: 19 August 2018 19:00 To: Freepages Web Sites <freepages-help@rootsweb.com> Subject: [FreeHelp]Re: Ext CSS tables At 01:20 PM 8/19/2018, Billie Walsh wrote: >I've been just sitting here watching and wondering: > >What's wrong with tables? > >I'm a big proponent of the K. I. S. S Principle. If the material in >question is best suited for a table format why not use one. Mobile-friendly has become the standard for user-friendly web sites. As a general rule, tables are used to display data in an organized way and the resulting multi-column tables are difficult if not impossible to make mobile-friendly. That said, while I am still working on converting all of my sites to make them mobile-friendly, genealogy sites are largely data oriented -- census data; birth, marriage and death data; cemetery indexes; etc. Many times the only concise way to display this type of data is using tables. So, even though my sites as a whole use a mobile-friendly design, I still use tables when necessary. And if a visitor is using a small screen device to do his/her genealogy research, s/he'll just have to slide the table around the screen to see what it contains ;-) Pat A. _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb.com/listindexes/search/freepages-help Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

At 03:53 PM 8/19/2018, Derek Boddington wrote: >"...difficult if not impossible to make mobile friendly..." > >Thanks Pat. I could not agree more. Genealogy sites are generally full of >conventionally structured 'Pedigree charts', 'Ancestor Charts' etc. The >only way to display them properly is by the use of tables. Some of my >charts are nested tables four deep. I can't think how else to display them >in a meaningful and recognized way that can be easily viewed by an iPhone >user, (say). > >I can only hope that any visitor who is seriously interested in genealogy >research will take the trouble to find a PC with a decent sized monitor or >be prepared to do an awful lot of horizontal scrolling! If you are redoing your site as a whole to make it mobile-friendly, an option that would be particularly effective for pedigree charts would be to save them as PDFs and use your media queries for small screens to show a link to the pdf instead of the html page with nested tables. Your visitor could then print the pdf from their smartphone if the chart contains information they want to copy/investigate/incorporate into their own research. The thing about making tables mobile-friendly is that there is NOT ONE PERFECT METHOD OR ANSWER. There are many alternatives and the "right" one depends on the type of data contained in the table(s). Pat A.

Absolutely nothing. Some information belongs in a table as far as I am concerned. And if I remember correctly, Judy is not making her site mobile friendly so what difference does it make. Tables are not really easy to make mobile friendly. I cheat, I use a Dreamweaver extension to convert them. See https://www.the-gearys.com/blackbird-designs/bd-chart-inventory.html And resize the browser window. Pat G ================= What's wrong with tables? =================

Judy, to me this is exactly the kind of information that belongs in a table. If you are having a hard time know which set of styles to apply to a table, name them something that means or describes what the style is for .3-column-table .2-col-table .4-column-table Pat -----Original Message----- From: JFlorian [mailto:cageycat@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 12:34 PM To: LIST_freepages-help@rootsweb.com <freepages-help@rootsweb.com>; Barry Carlson <barrycarlson@vodafone.co.nz> Subject: [FreeHelp]Ext CSS tables Barry, You did all those CSS tables, which I appreciate. But I'm having such trouble knowing which one to pick for each table. And I don't know how to adjust it as needed. Converting the tables has become a #1 irritant. I'm ready to remove tables from the CSS (into a new file) and leaving all my htlm tables alone. However, thought I'd ask if we can get one table in ext CSS, like the ones I prefer.... See these on the orginial pages http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co -ohio/wash-natives1.htm http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co -ohio/wash-natives2.htm

Pat wrote: Judy, to me this is exactly the kind of information that belongs in a table. If you are having a hard time know which set of styles to apply to a table, name them something that means or describes what the style is for .3-column-table .2-col-table .4-column-table ==================== It isn't that. It's that in Ext. CSS, I don't know how to adjust the CSS tables Barry made to produce what I prefer, like on those pages I showed.. So.... I could just copy all the tables Barry made and pull them out of the CSS file, and let table be my regular old Frontpage tables? (Sorry Barry, I've really tried.) (I already made the page border table into a different name, so I can use Fp "table" without conflicts.) If I can forego converting tables, OMG I would go kiss a camel! I got enough other stuff on the site to fix and folders deep with sub-folders. Plus, I have to clean up tables already. And no, I'm not smart enough to do an even teeny-partial mobile friendly site. I'm using Barry's code he gave a year or two ago to satisfy Google. Judy

Okay, I just removed other tables in CSS. So this <....table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <..tr> <...td width="50%"></td> <...td width="50%"></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="50%"></td> <td width="50%"></td> </tr> </table> Should be just a plain, thin row, table, like the ones I showed. But it isn't. Instead, it looks like I could fit 3 lines in each cell, as if it has padding or margins or whatever it's called. I don't understand why it's behaving like this. The triple borders I named table1 and table2. So a Frontpage "table" cannot be picking up their settings, right? I'm lost. Tempted to make all table pages stay as html only.... and only convert the rest of the site to css. Again, any ideas why table is producing a thing 3x as big as it should?

Judy, you say your cell padding is "3". Should this not be 3px? On 20 August 2018 at 01:10, JFlorian <cageycat@gmail.com> wrote: > Okay, I just removed other tables in CSS. So this > <....table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> > <..tr> > <...td width="50%"></td> > <...td width="50%"></td> > </tr> > <tr> > <td width="50%"></td> > <td width="50%"></td> > </tr> > </table> > > Should be just a plain, thin row, table, like the ones I showed. But it > isn't. Instead, it looks like I could fit 3 lines in each cell, as if it > has padding or margins or whatever it's called. > > I don't understand why it's behaving like this. > > The triple borders I named table1 and table2. So a Frontpage "table" > cannot be picking up their settings, right? I'm lost. Tempted to make all > table pages stay as html only.... and only convert the rest of the site to > css. > > Again, any ideas why table is producing a thing 3x as big as it should? > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe and Archives https://mailinglists.rootsweb. > com/listindexes/search/freepages-help > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Valerie, I'm using an html table. It should work as is. But I'll try the px just in case. From what I've learned about external css, things above in a page can affect things below. Since "table" is now not in the CSS, could this be true about my non-CSS "table"? Used as is on W3 schools Try It, the table's height and borders look fine. OTOH, since "table" wants to be big in cell height, how can I control that aspect if I put "table" into the CSS? judy

Judy, I've just been looking at the page source on your website view-source: http://sites.rootsweb.com/~pawashin//migration-biographies/ohio/jefferson-co-ohio/wash-natives1.htm in which your cell padding and spacing is given as "0", which seems to work - not sure why you appear to have altered it to "3". On 20 August 2018 at 17:53, JFlorian <cageycat@gmail.com> wrote: > Valerie, > > I'm using an html table. It should work as is. But I'll try the px just > in case. > > From what I've learned about external css, things above in a page can > affect things below. Since "table" is now not in the CSS, could this be > true about my non-CSS "table"? Used as is on W3 schools Try It, the > table's height and borders look fine. > > OTOH, since "table" wants to be big in cell height, how can I control that > aspect if I put "table" into the CSS? > > judy >

Valerie, I'll look at it next hour. All my old html tables use padding 0 or padding 3. It will be nice if that is the issue. J