Hi Barry, I hope you will forgive my ignorance, but I don't quite follow this. You say your example page is developed as HTML5 that is fully parsed and rendered in most modern browsers (except Internet Explorer). You suggest we view the page in Firefox 3.6 or a similar W3C compliant browser. I only have Internet Explorer installed on my machine, but I thought I would give it a try anyway. I have to say the page looks perfectly OK to me. The links work and everything. Should I be seeing this page incorrectly with my IE8 browser or not at all? If I were to get Firefox or some other W3C compliant browser, would I be able to see it any better? Please help! Derek Boddington

On Monday, November 01, 2010 3:59 AM (UTC+13) Derek Boddington wrote:- > I hope you will forgive my ignorance, but I don't quite follow this. You > say > your example page is developed as HTML5 that is fully parsed and rendered > in > most modern browsers (except Internet Explorer). You suggest we view the > page in Firefox 3.6 or a similar W3C compliant browser. I only have > Internet > Explorer installed on my machine, but I thought I would give it a try > anyway. I have to say the page looks perfectly OK to me. The links work > and > everything. Should I be seeing this page incorrectly with my IE8 browser > or > not at all? If I were to get Firefox or some other W3C compliant browser, > would I be able to see it any better? -------------------------------- Derek, My fault in not explaining that - all browsers are not created equal. I don't intend to turn this into a "browser war", but we live in a world where the majority of internet users are provided with a default browser when they purchase a PC. The PC will invariably have the MS Windows Operating System (O/S) installed, and sitting comfortably within it is the MS Internet Explorer browser. My understanding is that the Windows 7 O/S is also packaged with some alternative browsers, e.g. Firefox, Safari/Chrome, or Opera. The user needs to be aware that they are there to be able to use them. The "alternative" browsers have evolved by keeping abreast of the World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) developed standards in mark-up language (HTML) and Cascading Style Sheets (CSS). The current standard mark-up language is HTML4 coupled with CSS2, and most browsers are now well on the way to being able to present much of what is yet to be standardized as CSS3. When it comes to how a page is rendered (displayed), it comes down to the browser designers interpretation of what is meant in the W3C standards. The browser engines should all behave the same, but because the designed by humans, they don't. Getting back to the page in question - http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/HTML-Convertor/simple-table.html - it was designed for rendering in the W3C standards compliant browsers (Firefox 3.6.1, Chrome 5, Safari 5 and Opera 10.64) and then hacked to ensure that it presented as equally well as possible in the Internet Explorer suite of browsers, i.e. IE5.01 through IE8. This resulted in adding extra mark-up and styling to create pseudo shadows under the two headings on the page. The W3C compliant browsers use the style - h1, h2 {text-shadow : 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em #ac9} to render the shadow. - which is not supported by Internet Explorer. There is another style on the page not supported by IE browsers, but it gracefully degrades. As you are using Internet Explorer 8, here is a page showing an example of the differences - http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/HTML-Convertor/shadow-test.html - and when using IE8, try the following page and note that when you have selected the IE7 link that the page displays correctly. The IE7 link displays the page correctly, as either link does in IE5.01 through to IE7 and in all the W3C compliant browsers. http://countjustonce.com/ie-test/vertical-align-ie8.html IE8 is a browser I don't use, and not only for the above reason The world looks different when viewed through the right "lens". Try downloading and installing either Firefox, Chrome, Opera or Safari. You don't need to select it as your default browser, but I expect in time you will. Barry .

At 06:05 PM 10/31/2010, Barry Carlson wrote: >The world looks different when viewed through the right "lens". Try >downloading and installing either Firefox, Chrome, Opera or Safari. You >don't need to select it as your default browser, but I expect in time you >will. =========== There are many of us who deliberately install multiple browsers so that we can check our sites to see how they display. I have FF, Opera, IE 8 and Windows Safari. I can also check my sites in multiple versions of IE using SuperPreview which is part of Expression Web. I can also check in IE9 by using the cloud feature of SoperPreview. I got Windows 7 on my new desktop and if it had anything except IE installed, it was well hidden. I use FF as my default browser BUT keep IE for those sites that will not work in FF or anything but IE. On my genealogy site, the vast majority of my visitors use IE and about 4.5% are still using IE6. About 20% use Firefox. On my Expression Web site, only 45% use IE with 35% using Firefox. Again about 4.4% are using IE6. On my Genealogy Web Creations site, more visitors use FF (41%) than IE (37%). Viewers using IE6 are higher on this site (6.5%). Chrome, which I do not have installed accounts for about 15%. While many choose not to accommodate IE6 visitors, I still want my site to function properly or as close as possible. pat