Hi Barry, I hope you will forgive my ignorance, but I don't quite follow this. You say your example page is developed as HTML5 that is fully parsed and rendered in most modern browsers (except Internet Explorer). You suggest we view the page in Firefox 3.6 or a similar W3C compliant browser. I only have Internet Explorer installed on my machine, but I thought I would give it a try anyway. I have to say the page looks perfectly OK to me. The links work and everything. Should I be seeing this page incorrectly with my IE8 browser or not at all? If I were to get Firefox or some other W3C compliant browser, would I be able to see it any better? Please help! Derek Boddington

I followed the Firefox link in IE8.xxx , then I followed the IE5 link with the same browser. What was I supposed to see? Clayton Burton

With the possible introduction of HTML5 as the latest in mark-up languages in late 2011, it is worth mentioning that IE5.01 (a bug fix version) of the Internet Explorer browser was introduced to what was then a very small internet user market in Decmber of 1999. It seems like it was not that long ago, but in terms of the E revolution, it could be 11 light years. However, that same browser is capable of handling the majority of pages that are offered to it in October 2010, and that proves that browser develpment is backwardly compatible. There will always be things that an older browser will never understand, 'cos it was never taught how to! So bearing that in mind, I have a page developed as HTML5 (a future mark-up language) that is fully parsed and rendered in most modern browsers (except Inernet Explorer) and yet is still able to be parsed and rendered 99 percent correctly in the now "ancient" IE5.01 browser. So here it is for viewing in FireFox 3.6 or a similar W3C compliant browser:- http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/HTML-Convertor/simple-table.html and for comparison a screenshot of the page in Internet Explorer 5.01 is available here - http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/HTML-Convertor/sc-ie5-01.png Well there's not much difference, which just goes to prove that a page well designed will degrade gracefully and still be viewable in the browsers of the future. Barry

On Friday, October 29, 2010 12:23 PM (UTC+13) Caroline wrote:- .. from your page http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bristowe/test/html5-attr.html I read: "As browsers are designed to be backwardly compatible, they will continue to handle deprecated mark-up. Documents that use attributes that are not valid in HTML5 will still render correctly, and will validate provided they use a DOCTYPE that supports HTML4 or earlier languages." Therefore do I understand correctly that "everyone should be aware that the styling will no longer be achieved using tags, and CSS must be used to achieve the appearance required" applies only to the use of HTML5? -------------- Caroline, Yes, that is what I intended it to mean. All existing browsers will parse and render code from the "Wayback Machine", and if you continue to write in older languages your page will be readible. Change happens slowly. The downside of HTML5 is that the simple option of using the browser built-in borders in tables will no longer be available. All is not lost, as I have another HTML5 page that makes use of the border="1" option by calling it using javascript. The page is valid HTML5, and is at:- http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/HTML-Convertor/simple-table.html Barry

On Friday, October 29, 2010 6:17 AM (UTC+13) Caroline wrote:_ > Yes - but what advantages does HTML5 bring over and above existing > language? - Caroline ------------------- Caroline The purpose behind HTML5 is to simplify the mark-up and introduce new tags to help with that, e.g. header and footer, to name just two. They are self-explanatory. Over-all, though the semantics surrounding the use of many of the new elements (tags) is often on the heavy side, the intent is to make the page layout more user friendly. Some older elements such as <b> and <i> have been superceded by <strong> and <em>, but the are still available to be used. In fact with styling you can do anything with them, e.g. use them as pseudo <span> tags, or even block level elements etc.. I'll update the list from time to time with snippets from the HTML5 Working Group published data, but in the meantime everyone should be aware that the styling will no longer be achieved using tags, and CSS must be used to achieve the appearance required. Barry

Barry, from your page http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bristowe/test/html5-attr.html I read: "As browsers are designed to be backwardly compatible, they will continue to handle deprecated mark-up. Documents that use attributes that are not valid in HTML5 will still render correctly, and will validate provided they use a DOCTYPE that supports HTML4 or earlier languages." Therefore do I understand correctly that "everyone should be aware that the styling will no longer be achieved using tags, and CSS must be used to achieve the appearance required" applies only to the use of HTML5? Thank you for all your info. Caroline -----Original Message----- From: Barry Carlson <barrycarls@gmail.com> To: FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com; tilburycm@aim.com CC: barrycarlson@xtra.co.nz Sent: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:01 Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] HTML5 - List of attributes that wont be valid On Friday, October 29, 2010 6:17 AM (UTC+13) Caroline wrote:_ > Yes - but what advantages does HTML5 bring over and above existing > language? - Caroline ------------------- Caroline The purpose behind HTML5 is to simplify the mark-up and introduce new tags to help with that, e.g. header and footer, to name just two. They are self-explanatory. Over-all, though the semantics surrounding the use of many of the new elements (tags) is often on the heavy side, the intent is to make the page layout more user friendly. Some older elements such as <b> and <i> have been superceded by <strong> and <em>, but the are still available to be used. In fact with styling you can do anything with them, e.g. use them as pseudo <span> tags, or even block level elements etc.. I'll update the list from time to time with snippets from the HTML5 Working Group published data, but in the meantime everyone should be aware that the styling will no longer be achieved using tags, and CSS must be used to achieve the appearance required. Barry

Yes - but what advantages does HTML5 bring over and above existing language? - Caroline -----Original Message----- From: Pat Geary <pat@the-gearys.com> To: FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:20 Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] HTML5 - List of attributes that wont be valid At 11:48 AM 10/28/2010, tilburycm@aim.com wrote: >What advantages for the amateur webpage author are there, if any, in >trying to use HTML5? ============ If the amateur webpage author has not yet learned how to write valid html/xhtml and use css, I would start there first. Once you have a good background in that, then think about using html 5. Just my two cents. pat Pat Geary - MS MVP Expression Web

At 11:48 AM 10/28/2010, tilburycm@aim.com wrote: >What advantages for the amateur webpage author are there, if any, in >trying to use HTML5? ============ If the amateur webpage author has not yet learned how to write valid html/xhtml and use css, I would start there first. Once you have a good background in that, then think about using html 5. Just my two cents. pat Pat Geary - MS MVP Expression Web ============= A complete site template ready to add to your default templates with instructions on installing and using. http://www.frontpage-to-expression.com/site-templates/ http://www.frontpage-to-expression.com/site-templates/equal-height-site-templates.html

Tough on the older generation of fh-ers ... no teeth, using gums .... What advantages for the amateur webpage author are there, if any, in trying to use HTML5? Caroline Poems written to celebrate Liverpool's 800th anniversary http://www.poem800.com/index.php "Tilberia" http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~cmtilbury "TheTilbury Magazine" http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cmtilbury/ttm/ttm_frontpage.html AlanT's London families, including his globetrotters, & Edward-the-warehouse T http://www.arext.plus.com/ "The Bingham Line" (with HMS Tilbury in WW1) http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~bingham Every path has its puddle. -----Original Message----- From: Barry Carlson <barrycarls@gmail.com> To: FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:59 Subject: [FreeHelp] HTML5 - List of attributes that wont be valid Still cutting your teeth on HTML4 and CSS2? Seems like yesterday that HTML4 superceded HTML3, but like everything, change is inevitable, and HTML5 will soon be with us. When, I'm not sure, but "soon" is a time related variable! The outcome of the introduction of HTML5 will be simpler mark-up, and no need for pesky niceties such as - <style type="text/css"> or <script type="text/javascript"> Those two examples will become just <style> and <script>. However, many attributes that we attach to mark-up, e.g. <table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" border="1"> will no longer be valid when checking a HTML5 document. CSS must be used to achieve similar results. A list of the deprecated attributes can be found at:- http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/test/html5-attr.html Note that the W3C Validator will check documents using <!DOCTYPE html> against the currently developed HTML5 standard. Barry

Still cutting your teeth on HTML4 and CSS2? Seems like yesterday that HTML4 superceded HTML3, but like everything, change is inevitable, and HTML5 will soon be with us. When, I'm not sure, but "soon" is a time related variable! The outcome of the introduction of HTML5 will be simpler mark-up, and no need for pesky niceties such as - <style type="text/css"> or <script type="text/javascript"> Those two examples will become just <style> and <script>. However, many attributes that we attach to mark-up, e.g. <table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" border="1"> will no longer be valid when checking a HTML5 document. CSS must be used to achieve similar results. A list of the deprecated attributes can be found at:- http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/test/html5-attr.html Note that the W3C Validator will check documents using <!DOCTYPE html> against the currently developed HTML5 standard. Barry

Still cutting your teeth on HTML4 and CSS2? Seems like yesterday that HTML4 superceded HTML3, but like everything, change is inevitable, and HTML5 will soon be with us. When, I'm not sure, but "soon" is a time related variable! The outcome of the introduction of HTML5 will be simpler mark-up, and no need for pesky niceties such as - <style type="text/css"> or <script type="text/javascript"> Those two examples will become just <style> and <script>. However, many attributes that we attach to mark-up, e.g. <table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" border="1"> will no longer be valid when checking a HTML5 document. CSS must be used to achieve similar results. A list of the deprecated attributes can be found at:- http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/test/html5-attr.html Note that the W3C Validator will check documents using <!DOCTYPE html> against the currently developed HTML5 standard. Barry

There <base> tag came up in discussion yesterday, and I wonder how many of you have ever heard of it, let alone make use of it when playing with web pages. A few days ago Rosemary Probert posed a question with regard to SSI not working in one of her pages. To check a web page is quite straight forward, you open the page and copy the source code and save it into a new page of your text editor, give it a name and save. Once you open the page, you quickly find if the objects within the page have absolute or relative urls. With absolute urls there is no problem as your browser downloads the images, css and scripts by following the urls provided in each of the links. However, relative paths create a problem in that you need establish what the absolute url for each of the links is and adjust them each manually. That's where the <base> tag can prove very useful, and here is what you need to do. When initially downloaded from the server, the url for the page provided the base url, i.e. everything before the actual filename of the page. Get that url, e.g. http:mydomain.com/directory-one/mystuff/page-1.html (minus page-1.html) and place it in a <base> tag as follows:- <html> <head> <base href="http:mydomain.com/directory-one/mystuff/"> <meta> ... <title> ... </title> </head> Now your browser will go looking along the same path that server originally looked when it delivered the contents of the page. Here are a couple of examples using Rosemary Probert's page:- The first is the page with the relative links - http://countjustonce.com/banbury/rosemary-1a.html The second is using the same page but including - <base href="http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~engcbanb/war-memorials/adderbury/"> http://countjustonce.com/banbury/rosemary-1b.html So there you are - the <base> tag and its uses. In fact it is possible to use it along with javascript to dynamically change the base url and serve for instance a whole lot of different images while still using the same relative links. The practical use is when checking or trying modifications to pages and not wanting to disturb your local files. P.S !important... Always ensure the <base> tag is placed before any CSS or script links in the head of the page. Barry

We can't use swear words in response to news like this <wink> but I bet others here know what I'm saying under my breath. LOL I haven't even gotten CSS basics down! Judy On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Barry Carlson <barrycarlson@clear.net.nz>wrote: > Still cutting your teeth on HTML4 and CSS2? > > Seems like yesterday that HTML4 superceded HTML3, but like everything, > change is inevitable, and HTML5 will soon be with us. When, I'm not sure, > but "soon" is a time related variable! > > The outcome of the introduction of HTML5 will be simpler mark-up, and no > need for pesky niceties such as - > > <style type="text/css"> or <script type="text/javascript"> > > Those two examples will become just <style> and <script>. > > However, many attributes that we attach to mark-up, e.g. > > <table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" border="1"> will no longer be valid > when checking a HTML5 document. CSS must be used to achieve similar > results. > > A list of the deprecated attributes can be found at:- > > http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/test/html5-attr.html > > Note that the W3C Validator will check documents using <!DOCTYPE html> > against the currently developed HTML5 standard. > > Barry > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- -- WASHINGTON COUNTY PA WEBSITES::: http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/~florian/ Coordinator of the Washington County PAGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pawashin/

On Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:14 AM (UTC+13) Lorrie wrote:- > List, > > I found the problem and thought I would share it so others might > benefit. I left out the following code in the <head> of the page. It > broke the paths to the images. What I don't understand is why it worked > if it is commented out. > > > <!--<base href="http://www.midwesternhelicopter.com/">--> > ------------------------ Lorrie, http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_base.asp and http://www.codeave.com/html/code.asp?u_log=5028 and the link is defined in the about.htm page at:- <!--Menu bar table--> <table id="menu"> <tr><!--<a href="/"> leads to the base URL.Keep the / --> <td id="placer1"> Barry

It was just in my last lesson in the HTML book -- 1. use the -- double dash only in comments -- to be safe -- not in a URL 2. a space following the opening and leading the closing double-dash may help the browser recognize the comment. 3. of course, I have no experience with it, yet. Check your text book (W3C?) for "comments" 4. Listen to Barry. He seems to be one of our better informed contributors. Hope this helps. -Richard... On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:00 AM, <freepages-help-request@rootsweb.com>wrote: > > <snip> > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 15:14:03 -0500 > From: Lorrie Laskey <lrmalcom@bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] non-rw website image problem > To: freepages-help@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4CC7368B.80000@bellsouth.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > List, > > I found the problem and thought I would share it so others might > benefit. I left out the following code in the <head> of the page. It > broke the paths to the images. What I don't understand is why it worked > if it is commented out. > > > <!--<base href="http://www.midwesternhelicopter.com/">--> > <%3C%21--%3Cbase%20href=%22http://www.midwesternhelicopter.com/%22%3E--%3E > > > > Lorrie > <snip> > ********************************************** >

List, I found the problem and thought I would share it so others might benefit. I left out the following code in the <head> of the page. It broke the paths to the images. What I don't understand is why it worked if it is commented out. <!--<base href="http://www.midwesternhelicopter.com/">--> <%3C%21--%3Cbase%20href=%22http://www.midwesternhelicopter.com/%22%3E--%3E> Lorrie On 10/26/10 14:30, Lorrie Laskey wrote: > List, > > I want to thank all who responded to my request for browser help. I > have not found the exact problem yet but I have narrowed it down. > Thanks to Barry for his javascript help. > > Lorrie > > On 10/26/10 12:18, Lorrie Laskey wrote: >> List, >> >> I am working on a family member's website to clean up the code and need >> feedback for a specific web page. I have checked it in Opera, Firefox >> and Konqueror on my computer and the page displays correctly. But on a >> Windows computer the button images in the menu do not show up. I don't >> know what browser or OS yet just only that there is a problem with the >> images but in browsershots they are not displaying in IE7 on XP. Don't >> know about IE 6 or 8 yet. Currently I am waiting for browsershots to >> give me that info. >> >> Could someone please check this page in IE 6, 7 and 8 and let me know if >> the images are displaying and of any other problems ? Please state your >> OS when you respond and please respond off line since this is not rw >> website related. >> >> Next, might anyone know what the problem is? This page is to be the >> template for future pages. You'll see that it is built entirely on >> tables but I can't do much about that right now. My goal is to separate >> css from code and clean up the excess code. >> >> An internet search stated that tables might be part of the problem. The >> CSS is in flux as this is a work in process. I am hoping that someone >> else has experienced such a problem. Here is the link. >> www.midwesternhelicopters.com/about.htm >> >> Lorrie >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toFREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>

List, I want to thank all who responded to my request for browser help. I have not found the exact problem yet but I have narrowed it down. Thanks to Barry for his javascript help. Lorrie On 10/26/10 12:18, Lorrie Laskey wrote: > List, > > I am working on a family member's website to clean up the code and need > feedback for a specific web page. I have checked it in Opera, Firefox > and Konqueror on my computer and the page displays correctly. But on a > Windows computer the button images in the menu do not show up. I don't > know what browser or OS yet just only that there is a problem with the > images but in browsershots they are not displaying in IE7 on XP. Don't > know about IE 6 or 8 yet. Currently I am waiting for browsershots to > give me that info. > > Could someone please check this page in IE 6, 7 and 8 and let me know if > the images are displaying and of any other problems ? Please state your > OS when you respond and please respond off line since this is not rw > website related. > > Next, might anyone know what the problem is? This page is to be the > template for future pages. You'll see that it is built entirely on > tables but I can't do much about that right now. My goal is to separate > css from code and clean up the excess code. > > An internet search stated that tables might be part of the problem. The > CSS is in flux as this is a work in process. I am hoping that someone > else has experienced such a problem. Here is the link. > www.midwesternhelicopters.com/about.htm > > Lorrie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

List, I am working on a family member's website to clean up the code and need feedback for a specific web page. I have checked it in Opera, Firefox and Konqueror on my computer and the page displays correctly. But on a Windows computer the button images in the menu do not show up. I don't know what browser or OS yet just only that there is a problem with the images but in browsershots they are not displaying in IE7 on XP. Don't know about IE 6 or 8 yet. Currently I am waiting for browsershots to give me that info. Could someone please check this page in IE 6, 7 and 8 and let me know if the images are displaying and of any other problems ? Please state your OS when you respond and please respond off line since this is not rw website related. Next, might anyone know what the problem is? This page is to be the template for future pages. You'll see that it is built entirely on tables but I can't do much about that right now. My goal is to separate css from code and clean up the excess code. An internet search stated that tables might be part of the problem. The CSS is in flux as this is a work in process. I am hoping that someone else has experienced such a problem. Here is the link. www.midwesternhelicopters.com/about.htm Lorrie

Hi Rebecca, Try this URL: http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/fileman Regards, Heidi Boos-Utley E-mail: hutley@greenhills.net URL: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~heidisfamily ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca Duve" <rjduve@yahoo.com> To: <FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:39 AM Subject: [FreeHelp] Help with user name and password. > Hello, > > I was just signed up with rootsweb, but I am unable to log in for some > reason. > My user name is engel2010. I tried to cut and paste my password but that > didn't > work either. > > > Am I trying to log into the wrong area? This is where I'm trying to log > into: > > users.freepages.rootsweb.com > > Please let me know why my password is not working. > > Thank you, > > Rebecca > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I was just signed up with rootsweb, but I am unable to log in for some reason. My user name is engel2010. I tried to cut and paste my password but that didn't work either. Am I trying to log into the wrong area? This is where I'm trying to log into: users.freepages.rootsweb.com Please let me know why my password is not working. Thank you, Rebecca