Billie, The style sheet is wonderful. It is a simple matter to change the complete look of your site. Your tables, links, lists, all the elements of your site will remain constant from page to page. Building a style sheet is not that complicated. I use a little free program called TopStyle which is wonderful as it helps you in the beginning to learn what each element does. For me it was great. But you do have to invest some time into the learning process. Your site is just that. Yours. You can do it any way you want. You can code your styles into your page. Your pages look fine. I like the colors you choose. In the end, it is the data that is the most important anyway. I have found that Pat's templates are built in stone. If you choose to learn, I would suggest playing with one of her templates. It will not fail. I've certainly put them through the wringer over the years....LOL Sheri aka. FamilyTwigs TwigTalk My blog Indiana Trails To The Past Jackson County/INTTTP

This is getting blown all out of proportion. I'm not saying that style elements and CSS shouldn't be used. I have a video series on CSS and Style elements that I picked up. And I have been working on learning more about CSS/style elements when I have some spare time. I have incorporated some style elements into some of my pages to do things you just can't do with standard HTML tags. The web page editor that I use has a built in style/CSS editor but you have to know more about how it works to use it. All I'm saying is that for some things there is a simple HTML way to do it. -- "A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._

Learning how to use cascading style sheets is not for everyone. Why is it useful to keep the style defined in a separate document? here are some reasons: * Once you have a style sheet,. you can use it for many documents; * When you do that, the browser caches the style sheet, which saves download time; * You can change the look and feel of all your documents just by changing the style sheet; * A style sheet language is independent of the HTML language: it can grow separately. * Because it keeps your HTML clean, putting the style in a separate sheet helps you with device independence and access for those with disabilities; * You can have separate style sheets for the printed version of a document. For anyone who is interested in learning more about using Cascading Style Sheets, listed below are just a few of the resources. CSS Tutorial from W3schools http://www.w3schools.com/Css/default.asp complete css guide http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/introduction/key_ideas.html Learn CSS step by step http://www.csstutorial.net/ CSS Beginner Tutorial http://htmldog.com/guides/cssbeginner/ CSS Intermediate Tutorial http://htmldog.com/guides/cssintermediate/ CSS Advanced Tutorial http://htmldog.com/guides/cssadvanced/ If you want every page of your sites to have a different look, then no using style sheets is probably not for you. Yes, there is a learning curve for learning how to both use and write CSS and valid HTML code. No, cleaning up a site that has non standards compliant code and styles all within the page is NOT an easy or quick job. But if you want a site that is easier to maintain and update (especially a very large site) then yes using a style sheet is the way to go. In the end, we each make our own choices and what is right for me is not necessarily right for anyone else. Even a very simple site can benefit from using a style sheet. pat

On 02/28/2011 05:54 AM, Pat Geary wrote: > At 12:29 AM 2/28/2011, Billie Walsh wrote: >> I know the prevailing wisdom is that you should use CSS for that sort of >> thing, but you can do the same sort thing with tables and it takes a lot >> less coding. > =============== > What extra coding Billie? The HTML code is just that clean with NO > style formatting at all. > All of the layout styles and the formatting styles are in the style > sheet which loads once for the entire site. And to change the look of > the site, rather than edit every single page, you edit the one style > sheet. > > Pat But how long is the style sheet? From memory, when I looked at the style sheet last night it took several lines to accomplish the effect. I admit that I'm very bad at reading and understanding how all the styles stuff works but a style sheet is more coding. It's just not contained within the page itself. It still has to be loaded into the browser. I love what you've accomplished. In fact, I'm a little envious. I don't understand how all the styles stuff works. When I learned to do web pages all there was available was Notepad, IE1 and about four pages of printed HTML tags and attributes [ in large type single sided ]. With everything I haven't found time to study and learn CSS/styles. I have been working on it slowly the last few months when I have some time. I don't use the exact same thing on every page. I might do a variation on the theme or if there are different categories I will use the same style on all the pages within the category. As a general rule with the pages I do most there is no change. Once it's done, it's upload and walk away. All I was saying is that you can accomplish the same effect with standard HTML 4.0 table attributes unless you want to use graphics. For graphics you have to use a non-standard table attribute [ background ]. The page I posted only has style elements that were put in by Open Office. I left them in for the effect they gave the data spaces. Kind of different. Heres another page with absolutely no style tags other than what might be there from Rootsweb or the Find A Grave search box. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~arfulttp/cemetery/index.html [ I was doing some playing with colors when I made those pages. ] I know the current thinking is that you have to use style elements to do _everything_ but I see no reason why you can't use standard tag attributes to accomplish something. -- "A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._

At 12:29 AM 2/28/2011, Billie Walsh wrote: >I know the prevailing wisdom is that you should use CSS for that sort of >thing, but you can do the same sort thing with tables and it takes a lot >less coding. =============== What extra coding Billie? The HTML code is just that clean with NO style formatting at all. All of the layout styles and the formatting styles are in the style sheet which loads once for the entire site. And to change the look of the site, rather than edit every single page, you edit the one style sheet. Pat

Donna, does your current (older) web page still show up on-line via the url you created? Once you choose one of the many ways to access your freepages account, your new information can simply over-ride your previous creations when you upload them. Or delete them and start over with new file names (remembering to keep an index.html page). I think Pat also has a tutorial on using the FTP "Drag and Drop" method, very easy. If you forgot where the original files are at on your own computer, just make new folders. Thanks for wanting to be simple. Your presentation can probably be accomplished with less than a dozen HTML commands. No dazzle needed. Good luck on your site, and the research. Richard

I know the prevailing wisdom is that you should use CSS for that sort of thing, but you can do the same sort thing with tables and it takes a lot less coding. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~arshartp/cemetery/index.html On 02/27/2011 08:14 PM, Pat Geary wrote: > For those of you who would like to play around with a triple layered > background template that uses CSS for both the layout and styling of > the site see > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/baubles/ > > The style sheet has been heavily commented as well as the templates > themselves. There are three templates included in the package - > > A DWT package which requires FP2003, Sharpoint Designer 2007 or any > version of Expression Web. > > A blank template that can be used with any web editor. > > A blank template that uses server side includes. > > All templates and supporting files are in a zipped package that can > be downloaded from my Expression Web Tutorials site. > > If you have comments or questions, let me know. > > Enjoy!! > > Pat > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._

For those of you who would like to play around with a triple layered background template that uses CSS for both the layout and styling of the site see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/baubles/ The style sheet has been heavily commented as well as the templates themselves. There are three templates included in the package - A DWT package which requires FP2003, Sharpoint Designer 2007 or any version of Expression Web. A blank template that can be used with any web editor. A blank template that uses server side includes. All templates and supporting files are in a zipped package that can be downloaded from my Expression Web Tutorials site. If you have comments or questions, let me know. Enjoy!! Pat

Hi, Donna- Have you considered publishing via WorldConnect? It's really simple: just send in your gedcom file. WC has the best search engine around, and your users can choose how they want the genealogical data presented: 1) an ahnentafel <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=AHN&db=dav4is&id=I00001>, 2) a pedigree <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=dav4is&id=I00001>, 3) a Register report <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=dav4is&id=I00162>, 4) an Outline Descendancy Tree <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=dav4is&id=I07616>, etc etc Start here <http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/>. -R. On 2011-02-27 13:29, Donna K. Vaughn wrote: > Hi to everyone on the list! I am an experienced genealogy researcher, know > my way around the Internet and the computer pretty well...BUT...I have HTML > anxiety. > > Several years ago, I started working on a webpage through Rootsweb > freepages, but dropped the project till now. When I recently tried to > create another one, I was told I already had one and was sent the user name > and password to access it. However, I have no idea where to go on Rootsweb > to try to open it up and resume work on it. Or what to do once I get there. > > I am really just looking for the most basic of webpages, no bells, whistles, > music, animated graphics, or any of that stuff. I just want a simple page > with the surnames I am researching, a little brief info on each one. And a > link to my gedcom file I created with Family Tree Maker. I want the webpage > to come up on Google or other search engines, if someone does a search on > one of my surnames. Really, I am just looking to make some genealogy > connections here to further my research, not bedazzle anyone with an > eyecatching website. :) > > I welcome any suggestions, and thank you in advance for your help! > > Donna -- Regards, Rod Dav4is / P.O. Box 118 / Hyde Park, NY 12538 / USA Little Nine Partners Historical Society Trustee, Webmaster, Lifetime Member http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nylnphs/ Personal website: Genealogy, et Cetera: http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dav4is/

At 01:29 PM 2/27/2011, Donna K. Vaughn wrote: >Several years ago, I started working on a webpage through Rootsweb >freepages, but dropped the project till now. When I recently tried to >create another one, I was told I already had one and was sent the user name >and password to access it. However, I have no idea where to go on Rootsweb >to try to open it up and resume work on it. Or what to do once I get there. =============== Go to http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/fileman/file_manager.cgi Sign in using the username and password you were sent originally. More detailed instructions here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/rootsweb-file-manager.html and download the free ebook http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gearyfamily/rootsweb-freepages-ebook.html Good luck. pat

Hi to everyone on the list! I am an experienced genealogy researcher, know my way around the Internet and the computer pretty well...BUT...I have HTML anxiety. Several years ago, I started working on a webpage through Rootsweb freepages, but dropped the project till now. When I recently tried to create another one, I was told I already had one and was sent the user name and password to access it. However, I have no idea where to go on Rootsweb to try to open it up and resume work on it. Or what to do once I get there. I am really just looking for the most basic of webpages, no bells, whistles, music, animated graphics, or any of that stuff. I just want a simple page with the surnames I am researching, a little brief info on each one. And a link to my gedcom file I created with Family Tree Maker. I want the webpage to come up on Google or other search engines, if someone does a search on one of my surnames. Really, I am just looking to make some genealogy connections here to further my research, not bedazzle anyone with an eyecatching website. :) I welcome any suggestions, and thank you in advance for your help! Donna

-----Original Message----- From: freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of freepages-help-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 26 February 2011 7:01 PM To: freepages-help@rootsweb.com Subject: FREEPAGES-HELP Digest, Vol 6, Issue 62 When replying to a digest message, quote only the specific message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. ***FREEPAGES HELP & FAQ*** http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/FAQ/fpindex.html Today's Topics: 1. Need help with CSS file (J.A. Florian) 2. Re: Need help with CSS file (Patricia Geary) 3. Re: Need help with CSS file (Jill Muir) 4. Re: Need help with CSS file (J.A. Florian) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:09:04 -0500 From: "J.A. Florian" <cageycat@gmail.com> Subject: [FreeHelp] Need help with CSS file To: "LIST_freepages-help@rootsweb.com" <freepages-help@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <AANLkTikkztwZvJReHS-Me4aJcJF2-mRWyMrehuT1679T@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I need help fixing a problem I created before. And help with the CSS file I'm trying to make to correct the problem. I took the CSS file that Pat G. set up for me for another website, and have tried to "plug in" portions from this website/page's CSS. In dir: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3 / There are these zzz_template_css-tidy.htm mcdonald_2.css The 2 images for backgrounds are in the folder "o_f2" along with the "mcdonald_2.css" file. A few years ago, a submitter to my website wanted the section for a town to look slightly different than my regular site's pages. So,I have had pages like this one for this submitter. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3 /faq_marriages.htm Two specific problems with the above page are: 1. I don't like that behind the above (original / old) page which loads a brownish-purple color (a dirty purple -- have I said I hate purples? lol) 2. When I originally did the pages, I just disabled the middle image ("mu25bkgd.jpg") to lose that "picture" in the page. That made the innermost and middle borders be one solid color ("beige1_p3.jpg"), but still have the triple border (outer border is a chocolatey color as an image). Obviously, disabling an image used as a background isn't the way to do a webpage (I just didn't know any other way at the time). And, disabling the middle image leaves numerous "broken links" to that middle image. I tried before to switch to an external stylesheet for this website section, but my CSS file failed every time. I'm trying again. I picked a better matching color (I think) in a #color for the overall background (to show if the butterscotch outermost border image fails). The middle and inner areas have (the re-named) "beige1.jpg" and now have #FAEBD7 as a back-up color overall background color. Problem 1: In Frontpage2000 Normal View, the innermost shows the beige1.jpg but the middle border shows the back-up color. HOWEVER, when I switch to Preview, it shows the beige1.jpg on both. Is there a CSS problem? or a quirk with Frontpage? I *think* the image on the live uploaded page also fails on both the middle and inner borders. Problem 2: Do I have the CSS set up correctly now for all parts of the page? Problem 3: Do I have the HTML set up correctly in my test page? Problem 4: If everything is OK, how do I **easily** take existing content and get it on a CSS styled page? What steps would I need to do? FIRST, back up all existing pages. Then... a) copy header info into CSS template page b) copy content into " " c) make sure _includes work d) name the page the same as the old one to not break links Am I missing anything on these steps? Really want to convert this web section so it's improved and so I get rid of all those broken links to the disabled original image. Hope I explained this right. Judy ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:00:22 -0500 From: Patricia Geary <patgeary@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] Need help with CSS file To: "J.A. Florian" <cageycat@gmail.com>, "LIST_freepages-help@rootsweb.com" <freepages-help@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <201102251600.p1PG0OGV028925@mail.rootsweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed First, I am not sure I would let ANY submitter dictate how my page should look especially if I am using a site-wide template which I do on all sites. That being said, you can override the styles from the style sheet for a particular page by adjusting the styles in the head section of the page which I have done on occasion. That would be the easiest. Will look at the rest later today. pat >A few years ago, a submitter to my website wanted the section for a >town to look slightly different than my regular site's pages. So,I have >had pages like this one for this submitter. >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald >-pa_3/faq_marriages.htm ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:04:24 -0000 From: "Jill Muir" <jill@shottle.plus.com> Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] Need help with CSS file To: "'J.A. Florian'" <cageycat@gmail.com>, <freepages-help@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <7DE89AEBAD6043DC84176DA1AEC1EC93@JILLMUIR> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Judy, I really cannot believe that you have a page set aside for *one* person? Are they likely to return? Isn't it a bit like repainting your garage door or rearranging your flower bed, for one person? Would you do either? ;-)) Gosh! you are accommodating! ;-)) Best wishes, Jill http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ -----Original Message----- From: freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of J.A. Florian Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 3:09 PM To: LIST_freepages-help@rootsweb.com Subject: [FreeHelp] Need help with CSS file I need help fixing a problem I created before. And help with the CSS file I'm trying to make to correct the problem. I took the CSS file that Pat G. set up for me for another website, and have tried to "plug in" portions from this website/page's CSS. In dir: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3 / There are these zzz_template_css-tidy.htm mcdonald_2.css The 2 images for backgrounds are in the folder "o_f2" along with the "mcdonald_2.css" file. A few years ago, a submitter to my website wanted the section for a town to look slightly different than my regular site's pages. So,I have had pages like this one for this submitter. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3 /faq_marriages.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:59:10 -0500 From: "J.A. Florian" <cageycat@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] Need help with CSS file To: Pat Geary <pat@the-gearys.com> Cc: "LIST_freepages-help@rootsweb.com" <freepages-help@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <AANLkTim1maejQSOeUEB19ZJ1Nj2UA60drT6UXERnSwTX@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The "genealogy" web never had an external stylesheet. I always use the wrong words to describe this, but on this website, I only had the style section in the page code, in the HEAD. The problem was back then, I didn't know how to take out or adjust the code for content area's image (didn't know enough HTML or CSS then). So the easiest way for me at first, I just left out one set of "../" going to the center image, which ended up with broken links. On some, I later put the word disabled as a false directory. ../disabled/beige1_3.jpg to distinguish those links in the Broken Links report. So, whichever way they are in my list, I just really want to get it recified now on this section. And, as you so often say, the external style sheet will accomplish that. It involves about 1,450 to 1,500 pages. I hope that once I get this section done with its style sheet, it won't seem as hard to me to create a second style sheet that includes all 3 borders and then I can convert the rest of the website to an external style sheet, too. Or, maybe by then, the 2-colors only will grow on me. ;-) In any event, hopefully I used your "misc" style sheet well enough to make the css sheet for the genealogy site. I just can't see why the center and middle image file isn't working right, since both images (butterscotch and beige jpgs) are in the same directory. I really prefer the beige1.jpg image color to the #hex-color I found. I'm really on a campaign to fix all internal and external broken links. The genealogy website is the big task I have to tackle, along with on just a few broken links on the others. Judy ------------------------------ To contact the FREEPAGES-HELP list administrator, send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the FREEPAGES-HELP mailing list, send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of FREEPAGES-HELP Digest, Vol 6, Issue 62 *********************************************

snip #1................ -rt_/) I'd go further and say that the person who does the work of editing and publishing a site gets to be the dictator of that demesnes and everyone else just has to put up with the choices. (If they don't like it, they can publish their own site.) RE: Agreed, they have a keyboard. I would NEVER ask someone to change their site. My biggest "suggestion" are to people who list data, say, from "Fred's Cemetery". No clue as to the city, county, state, or country. When you enter a page from the back door, make sure that page has all the specific information as to where you are at. snip #2.............-rt_/) The webmaster (really, the web-slave) is like the captain of a ship. He or she shouldn't let the passengers keep changing the course steered or the ship will never get anywhere and may sail into dangerous waters. RE: SLAVE is perfect. Few, if any, complainers are putting in the 40+ hours of "part time" effort per week to produce what you have accomplished. snip #3...........-rt_/) Or, to take another perspective: We, usually on this list, take about technicalities rather than art, but an "artistic vision" should be behind every site and it should be a unified, consistent vision. RE: my job became finding data, then, to present it in a simple manner. Black text on a white background works fine. I'm not here to impress you with web design capabilities. Names and dates are enough. If 1 person in 500,000 sees a connection, email me and we'll exchange the specifics. Giving myself a headache to impress you is not part of the work. Richard

At 03:34 PM 2/26/2011, J.A. Florian wrote: >Pat, > >I appreciate what you've done... but I'm more confused without the >sections commented. > >The zzz_template_css-tidy.htm page has your comments from the "misc" >website. The full URL is ><http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3/zzz_template_css-tidy.htm>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3/zzz_template_css-tidy.htm ================ You cannot use the css from the link I included to work with the template you are trying to fix. You are going to at some point have to spend some time learning exactly how css works. I commented the style sheet extensively so you could match up what is in the style sheet with how it relates to the id and classes from the html code. I did not include all the various includes you are using for search and what have you and I did not recreat the structure from your directory to get the paths to the various images correct. <http://www.css-layouts.org/judy/default.html>http://www.css-layouts.org/judy/default.html Unfortunately right now, I do not have the time to redo the original template. The layered look depends on three different backgrounds The body style calls the first background image whatever you wish it to be and declares a color that is close to it in case the image does not load. This set of style rules styles the middle border and if the path to the image is correct. /* ============================ styles the middle border of the page =========================== */ #outer { background-image: url('images/beige1_p3.jpg'); border: 3px ridge #FF3300; margin: 15px auto; padding: 10px; width: 90%; background-color: #C29381; } /* ============================ styles the inside border of the page =========================== */ #middle { background: #FAEBD7 url('images/beige1_p3.jpg'); border: 3px black ridge; margin: 15px auto; padding: 10px; width: 90%; } These are NOT the same as the ones from the original template but there is enough commenting on the original one that you should be able to match up the three areas that give the three layers of the background. So your first image and color go with the body style rules the 2nd image and color go with the section that is that region of the template The 3rd image and color go with whatever that region is named. Add color borders to the various style rules so you can distinguish one from the other and comment them out or change them once you have it working correctly. pat

Pat, I appreciate what you've done... but I'm more confused without the sections commented. The zzz_template_css-tidy.htm page has your comments from the "misc" website. The full URL is http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3/zzz_template_css-tidy.htm The problem I'm having is the above URL doesn't like something about your (new) default.css or the css file I tried to do based on the CSS you wrote for the "misc" web. --On my expample ( above), it didn't like the center & middle image-as-color. --On your new default.css the above page shows ONLY the dirty-purple background (the overall background that I want changed anyway) and shows none of the triple borders. I don't understand why the page is not working with my attempted css file or your default.css file. I don't need a lot of special stuff for the tables (for example .question etc. wouldn't be used except on one page). The majority of pages have repeating 2-cell 1 row table, separated by a centered * followed by another 2-cell 1 row table and so on. Like on the zzz_template_css-tidy.htm page. On these tables, a newspaper image goes in the left cell; the typed text of the article goes on the right cell. And below the typed text is a 'credit' line for the typist. As an example, see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3/bannister_to_barclay.htm So ideally, I'd like to get http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3/zzz_template_css-tidy.htm to work with the revised CSS file (based on the one you wrote for misc) so I have a template to start using. I really need the commented sections on the page and in the css so I can follow and understand what goes where. The colors I like: The overall background #FAEBD7 The outer border is : butterscotch.jpg The middle and inner borders are both beige1.jpg If I can get one template to work, then I can get started. Thank you, Judy On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Pat Geary <pat@the-gearys.com> wrote: > Judy, I have no idea if this is what you are looking for or not > http://www.css-layouts.org/judy/default.html > > Best I can do for right now. CSS is commented. Tables are extremely easy to > clean up to just a basic table layout using table2 clipboard. Now it even > retains hyperlinks and images. > http://www.expression-web-tutorials.com/table2clipboard.html should work > the same way in fp > > I made no attempt to do anything more than the basic content of this page, > no headers, no search etc. You can get them from one of the orignal > templates or copy what you currently have. I also did not use anything more > than a basic folder setup. > > If you have specific questions about the layout I will try and answer them. > outer and middle div have red and black borders so you can distinguish them. >

Judy reported a CSS problem, apparently arising from trying to accommodate a particular person. She also said she puts the CSS styling in the head section of her pages, rather than an external CSS file. The primary purpose of CSS (cascading style sheets) is to give a website a consistent "look-and-feel". This helps the viewer, by letting them know where they, what they're looking at and where to find stuff. Multiple looks-and-feels defeat that purpose. It seems to me that the most practical approach for consistent look-and-feel is an EXTERNAL style sheet, called in the head of the document. The external style sheet allows any styling changes to be made in one place, rather than in every page. Styling in the doc head should be reserved for adjustments from the overall site styling. And, inline styling should be reserved to only unique, non-recurring uses. The advice of Pat and Jill not to accommodate others' design preferences is well-taken; that way leads to chaos. I'd go further and say that the person who does the work of editing and publishing a site gets to be the dictator of that demesnes and everyone else just has to put up with the choices. (If they don't like it, they can publish their own site.) The webmaster (really, the web-slave) is like the captain of a ship. He or she shouldn't let the passengers keep changing the course steered or the ship will never get anywhere and may sail into dangerous waters. Or, to take another perspective: We, usually on this list, take about technicalities rather than art, but an "artistic vision" should be behind every site and it should be a unified, consistent vision. -rt_/)

Judy, I have no idea if this is what you are looking for or not http://www.css-layouts.org/judy/default.html Best I can do for right now. CSS is commented. Tables are extremely easy to clean up to just a basic table layout using table2 clipboard. Now it even retains hyperlinks and images. http://www.expression-web-tutorials.com/table2clipboard.html should work the same way in fp I made no attempt to do anything more than the basic content of this page, no headers, no search etc. You can get them from one of the orignal templates or copy what you currently have. I also did not use anything more than a basic folder setup. If you have specific questions about the layout I will try and answer them. outer and middle div have red and black borders so you can distinguish them. pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - Expression Web We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ http://www.expression-web-tutorials.com/ Migrating from FrontPage to Expression Web EBook Revised to include EW 3.0 http://frontpage-to-expression.com/

Judy, I really cannot believe that you have a page set aside for *one* person? Are they likely to return? Isn't it a bit like repainting your garage door or rearranging your flower bed, for one person? Would you do either? ;-)) Gosh! you are accommodating! ;-)) Best wishes, Jill http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ -----Original Message----- From: freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of J.A. Florian Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 3:09 PM To: LIST_freepages-help@rootsweb.com Subject: [FreeHelp] Need help with CSS file I need help fixing a problem I created before. And help with the CSS file I'm trying to make to correct the problem. I took the CSS file that Pat G. set up for me for another website, and have tried to "plug in" portions from this website/page's CSS. In dir: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3 / There are these zzz_template_css-tidy.htm mcdonald_2.css The 2 images for backgrounds are in the folder "o_f2" along with the "mcdonald_2.css" file. A few years ago, a submitter to my website wanted the section for a town to look slightly different than my regular site's pages. So,I have had pages like this one for this submitter. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/o_f2/mcdonald-pa_3 /faq_marriages.htm

The "genealogy" web never had an external stylesheet. I always use the wrong words to describe this, but on this website, I only had the style section in the page code, in the HEAD. The problem was back then, I didn't know how to take out or adjust the code for content area's image (didn't know enough HTML or CSS then). So the easiest way for me at first, I just left out one set of "../" going to the center image, which ended up with broken links. On some, I later put the word disabled as a false directory. ../disabled/beige1_3.jpg to distinguish those links in the Broken Links report. So, whichever way they are in my list, I just really want to get it recified now on this section. And, as you so often say, the external style sheet will accomplish that. It involves about 1,450 to 1,500 pages. I hope that once I get this section done with its style sheet, it won't seem as hard to me to create a second style sheet that includes all 3 borders and then I can convert the rest of the website to an external style sheet, too. Or, maybe by then, the 2-colors only will grow on me. ;-) In any event, hopefully I used your "misc" style sheet well enough to make the css sheet for the genealogy site. I just can't see why the center and middle image file isn't working right, since both images (butterscotch and beige jpgs) are in the same directory. I really prefer the beige1.jpg image color to the #hex-color I found. I'm really on a campaign to fix all internal and external broken links. The genealogy website is the big task I have to tackle, along with on just a few broken links on the others. Judy

Judy, I have had a quick look and there are a number of problems. Am currently busy on another project, and if you are happy to wait a couple of days, I will sort out the page. Barry On 25/02/2011 12:18 p.m., J.A. Florian wrote: > Barry, > Over a year ago, Barry, you'd set up a slide show I could use on my > "misc" web. In between other important life events during 2010, I'd > occasionally try to get it to work and could never get it right. I'm > trying -- again -- and I'm still having problems. > I'm still in kindergarten regarding CSS but my best guesses about why > it isn't working is--- > 1. maybe there's a conflict (something I created in placing the code > into the page) with the body code, so it's wiping out the overall css > used on "misc" ? > 2. maybe I put your Slide Show Cross Fade style in the wrong place > when trying to make sure I had the several css files in the right spots ? > 3. I put something in incorrectly which makes the closing HEAD bounce > to above the Cross Fade style (I tried moving the closing HEAD after > the style, but Frontpage2000 pops it back up before the style). > 4. something else (LOL) > Interestly, the URL contents validates --go figure! (WS3 > validator needs glasses-- my page is one blob of maroon! LOL) Also, > instead of my Title on the page, the page shows the beginning of the > script -- then everything else is blotted out by the background > color--- maroon. > It's been months since I did any work on this, but I don't THINK I > changed anything in your css or js files. I did change directories > for where I put your files. > Before adding in your script, Barry, my test page did show the regular > css layout and the slide show box with the first photo you had used. > So, I most likely put the script into my test page incorrectly. > My *bad* attempt is uploaded at: > http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~florian/swpa_recreation/parks/sunset/slide-show/slideshow_test2.html > <http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Eflorian/swpa_recreation/parks/sunset/slide-show/slideshow_test2.html> > If I can get your script placed correctly, I think I can understand > where I'm to enter MY photos to replace your "test" photos. But, so > far, I've been unable to get your script put into the code correctly, > and correctly for the site's css. > It's a mess. Could you take a look? > All files you sent me are in the "slide-show" folder. In that folder > is "images" for your test photos (jpgs). In images is a folder "gifs" > for the one gif you used. But, I haven't gotten any of those to show > on the page that *I* have tried to get situated. > Judy