Thanks to Pat G. for making me test things out I am now back publishing via EW4. Cheers to you Pat! My best wishes, Jill See website, KNIGHT, DAVIES and for 3 lines of JONES http://www.muirfamily-genealogy-online.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jill Muir Sent: 19 May 2012 09:12 To: freepages-help@rootsweb.com Subject: [FreeHelp] Ongoing publishing problem using EW4 For some reason for about the last 3 to 6 months I have been unable to publish using EW4. I go to publish and a publishing box appears as I used to have in Frontpage. The message says: FTP transmits the user name and pw with encryption. If possible, open the site by using an HTTP URL to help protect it from potential network attacks. If I ignore and OK this I have a Login failure 530. Does anyone know what would cause this? I cannot 'repair' using my CD as I have EW3 with dl update to EW4. Apologies to those who may read this on Yahoo Expression web list My best wishes, Jill See website, KNIGHT, DAVIES and for 3 lines of JONES http://www.muirfamily-genealogy-online.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barry Carlson Sent: 12 May 2012 20:56 To: freepages-help@rootsweb.com; Ronald Mesnard Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] A Different Sort of Linear Background On Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:56 AM (UTC+12) Ronald wrote (in part):- If you prefer to keep to the cutting edge, be prepared to actively maintain it as the standards change with time. Also do not expect half the browsers to work unless your server hosts PHP and you present HTML targeted for the specific browser used. I would just use Photoshop to make gradient images not not have to worry what browsers will work for my site. ---------------------------- I think you may have missed the point. The W3C sets the Standards for HTML and CSS in order to provide a "level playing field" for all browser vendors, which in turn gives some certainity for webpage designers as to how their work will be received. It is up to the browser user to ensure their browser is relatively current, and likewise for the webmaster to ensure that a page will degrade gracefully, or in the case of a very old browser inform the user the page cannot be displayed. The web is full of images which consume large amounts of bandwidth, and PDF files fall into that category. Proper use of HTML / CSS will always be needed to create the backbone, whereas other languages such PHP have their uses, but at the end of the day they all output in HTML. The Freepages servers don't provide PHP; so with limited SSI it is up to the webmaster to use HTML to the best of their ability and provide for any active page manipulation through the use of ender user scripting such as Javascript and like libraries. Microsoft have made a real effort to bring IE10 into line with the W3C standards, and like the other browser vendors, they continually develop new ideas. Some of those will fall by the wayside, while other inovations will become adopted by the W3C and become part of future standards. Evolution no less, and tomorrow's web will be different but somehow the same. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 04:11 AM 5/19/2012, Jill Muir wrote: >For some reason for about the last 3 to 6 months I have been unable to >publish using EW4. ========= Answered on another list. pat

For some reason for about the last 3 to 6 months I have been unable to publish using EW4. I go to publish and a publishing box appears as I used to have in Frontpage. The message says: FTP transmits the user name and pw with encryption. If possible, open the site by using an HTTP URL to help protect it from potential network attacks. If I ignore and OK this I have a Login failure 530. Does anyone know what would cause this? I cannot 'repair' using my CD as I have EW3 with dl update to EW4. Apologies to those who may read this on Yahoo Expression web list My best wishes, Jill See website, KNIGHT, DAVIES and for 3 lines of JONES http://www.muirfamily-genealogy-online.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:freepages-help-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barry Carlson Sent: 12 May 2012 20:56 To: freepages-help@rootsweb.com; Ronald Mesnard Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] A Different Sort of Linear Background On Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:56 AM (UTC+12) Ronald wrote (in part):- If you prefer to keep to the cutting edge, be prepared to actively maintain it as the standards change with time. Also do not expect half the browsers to work unless your server hosts PHP and you present HTML targeted for the specific browser used. I would just use Photoshop to make gradient images not not have to worry what browsers will work for my site. ---------------------------- I think you may have missed the point. The W3C sets the Standards for HTML and CSS in order to provide a "level playing field" for all browser vendors, which in turn gives some certainity for webpage designers as to how their work will be received. It is up to the browser user to ensure their browser is relatively current, and likewise for the webmaster to ensure that a page will degrade gracefully, or in the case of a very old browser inform the user the page cannot be displayed. The web is full of images which consume large amounts of bandwidth, and PDF files fall into that category. Proper use of HTML / CSS will always be needed to create the backbone, whereas other languages such PHP have their uses, but at the end of the day they all output in HTML. The Freepages servers don't provide PHP; so with limited SSI it is up to the webmaster to use HTML to the best of their ability and provide for any active page manipulation through the use of ender user scripting such as Javascript and like libraries. Microsoft have made a real effort to bring IE10 into line with the W3C standards, and like the other browser vendors, they continually develop new ideas. Some of those will fall by the wayside, while other inovations will become adopted by the W3C and become part of future standards. Evolution no less, and tomorrow's web will be different but somehow the same. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To expand a bit on Barry's ".. other languages such PHP have their uses, but at the end of the day they all output in HTML. The Freepages servers don't provide PHP.." I'm just getting into PHP (for a non-Freepages site) and what I've learned explains why Freepages doesn't support it. PHP is a server-side scripting language (as opposed to client-side, such as javascript) and depends on writing to the server -- an obvious security issue, given so many Freepages users of various skill and knowledge levels. As with any programming language, it's easy to create a complete mess by accident. Among the uses Barry refers to is accessing and manipulating server-side databases. (Good for online marketing, but fraught with problems for the host server.) The output isn't necessarily all HTML, that's only the part the customer sees. -rt_/)

On Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:56 AM (UTC+12) Ronald wrote (in part):- If you prefer to keep to the cutting edge, be prepared to actively maintain it as the standards change with time. Also do not expect half the browsers to work unless your server hosts PHP and you present HTML targeted for the specific browser used. I would just use Photoshop to make gradient images not not have to worry what browsers will work for my site. ---------------------------- I think you may have missed the point. The W3C sets the Standards for HTML and CSS in order to provide a "level playing field" for all browser vendors, which in turn gives some certainity for webpage designers as to how their work will be received. It is up to the browser user to ensure their browser is relatively current, and likewise for the webmaster to ensure that a page will degrade gracefully, or in the case of a very old browser inform the user the page cannot be displayed. The web is full of images which consume large amounts of bandwidth, and PDF files fall into that category. Proper use of HTML / CSS will always be needed to create the backbone, whereas other languages such PHP have their uses, but at the end of the day they all output in HTML. The Freepages servers don't provide PHP; so with limited SSI it is up to the webmaster to use HTML to the best of their ability and provide for any active page manipulation through the use of ender user scripting such as Javascript and like libraries. Microsoft have made a real effort to bring IE10 into line with the W3C standards, and like the other browser vendors, they continually develop new ideas. Some of those will fall by the wayside, while other inovations will become adopted by the W3C and become part of future standards. Evolution no less, and tomorrow's web will be different but somehow the same.

this is now sorted thanks: Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 10:33:15 +1200 From: Kit Withers <kit.withers@gmail.com> Subject: [FreeHelp] password problem To: FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com, accounts@rootsweb.com I dont think i have logged on via ftp since 2005. Now my password does not seem to work. Suggestions? The list of allowed files does not include jpg but in one post it implies these are allowed. Is this so? Accounts: when i do get it working again, could i pls have 600 mb?

Microsoft has chosen discord instead of unity. They are hoping that they may gain back their market share by doing just that. The next version of internet explorer will not use adobe product such as flash. I think that alone will cure them of this notion. Very few companies will rewrite their web pages by removing all their very capable Flash objects to bug-ridden Silverlite objects and not be usable by the majority of browsers. Users even now have several browsers on their desk top. Soon they will really need them just to be able to use particular sites. If you prefer to keep to the cutting edge, be prepared to actively maintain it as the standards change with time. Also do not expect half the browsers to work unless your server hosts PHP and you present HTML targeted for the specific browser used. I would just use Photoshop to make gradient images not not have to worry what browsers will work for my site. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 10:06:52 +1200 > From: "Barry Carlson" <barrycarls@gmail.com> > Subject: [FreeHelp] A Different Sort of Linear Gradient Background > To: <freepages-help@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <6125AEA872244129BC6C404744C4EAE9@VirtualXP27465> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > A few months ago, I posted an example of how it is now possible to create > PhotoShop style headings using new properties being developed for CSS3. > Along the same lines, all current browsers now recognise the > "linear-gradient" property and can also implement a "repeating" version of > it by placing commas between each declaration. > > The following is an example of how a green grid is generated on a white > background:- > > body { > background-image: linear-gradient(#ac9 1px, transparent 1px), > linear-gradient(0deg, #ac9 1px, transparent 1px), > linear-gradient(rgba(170,204,153,0.5) 1px, transparent 1px), > linear-gradient(0deg, rgba(170,204,153,0.5) 1px, transparent 1px); > background-size: 100px 100px, 100px 100px, 20px 20px, 20px 20px; > background-position: -1px -1px, -1px -1px; > background-color: #fff; > } > > None of the browser vendors have at this stage committed to the standardized > format, and in the case of the background-image declaration, each > "linear-gradient" will need to be prefixed with a vendor prefix, > e.g. -moz-, -ms-, -o-, or -webkit-. For those that recognise that "0deg" can > be written without the "deg", the bad news is that the Microsoft version > will not render without the "deg" suffix, and as a form of self protection > I've added the "deg" suffix to all the declarations. > > A page showing the above background is at:- > > http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/test/sine-wave.html > > The little animation on the page will only show in those browsers that > support the HTML5 Canvas tag, and if your browser doesn't support the > "linear-gradient" property, the background will be a red grid image.

Microsoft has pretty much always gone their own way when it came to rendering web pages in Internet Explorer. In the early days it was common to see "Best viewed with Internet Explorer" on most web pages. Microsoft had their own version of HTML [ at least there were IE only tags ]. To be honest some of the things you could do with Microsoft's version I sometimes felt should have been standard. It wasn't until Styles came around that some of those things could be easily done across all browsers. I heard something about this a while back. Not using Windows, anything Flash has always been a pain in the ___ as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes it works and sometimes it won't. Usually if the page relies only on Flash I just move on to another page and won't go back. (Wired.com) -- In an abrupt about-face in its mobile software strategy, Adobe will soon cease developing its Flash Player plug-in for mobile browsers, according to an e-mail sent to Adobe partners on Tuesday evening. And with that e-mail flash, Adobe has signaled that it knows, as Steve Jobs predicted, the end of the Flash era on the web is coming soon. Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/tech/mobile/adobe-mobile-flash-wired/index.html For the future I feel that it is best to "Keep It Simple Stupid". The simple things always seem to work in all browsers and all operating systems. Things I did fifteen years ago still work just like they are supposed to. They work just as well in Firefox v15.x as they did in Internet Explorer v1.x. Will pages that use Flash still work fifteen years from now. I dunno, but I'm thinking they won't look as good as they do now on a fifteen year newer browser without Flash support. Just something to think about. On 05/12/2012 09:56 AM, Ronald Mesnard wrote: > > Microsoft has chosen discord instead of unity. They are hoping that they may gain back their market share by doing just that. > The next version of internet explorer will not use adobe product such as flash. I think that alone will cure them of this notion. Very few companies will rewrite their web pages by removing all their very capable Flash objects to bug-ridden Silverlite objects and not be usable by the majority of browsers. Users even now have several browsers on their desk top. Soon they will really need them just to be able to use particular sites. > > If you prefer to keep to the cutting edge, be prepared to actively maintain it as the standards change with time. Also do not expect half the browsers to work unless your server hosts PHP and you present HTML targeted for the specific browser used. I would just use Photoshop to make gradient images not not have to worry what browsers will work for my site. > -- “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”. - Patrick Henry - _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._

Kit asked "I don't think i have logged on via ftp since 2005. Now my password does not seem to work. Suggestions? The list of allowed files does not include jpg but in one post it implies these are allowed. Is this so? Accounts: when i do get it working again, could i pls have 600 mb?" Password suggestion: Password Central, http://passwordcentral.rootsweb.ancestry.com/. They'll e-mail it to you. Yes, it is so. JPEG files, *.jpg, are allowed. They're pretty much a Web standard for images. As to storage size, this is something no one on this mailing list can do anything about. We volunteers have no more authority than you. We all work within Freepages' limits. -rt_/)

I dont think i have logged on via ftp since 2005. Now my password does not seem to work. Suggestions? The list of allowed files does not include jpg but in one post it implies these are allowed. Is this so? Accounts: when i do get it working again, could i pls have 600 mb? -- Kit Withers Tel +64 4 476 9554 Mobile +64 27 304 8076 Email kit.withers@gmail.com Math Stats Research: http://kitwithers.fortunecity.com/research.html D Sc award -Sheba's photo: http://stats.org.nz/Newsletter73/awards.htm Genealogy Research: http://kitwithers.fortunecity.com/genealogy.html Travel: http://kitwithers.fortunecity.com/travel/traveldiaries.txt Sheba's music: http://www.shebawilliams.com http://www.myspace.com/shebawilliams http://www.facebook.com/shebawilliamsmusic

A few months ago, I posted an example of how it is now possible to create PhotoShop style headings using new properties being developed for CSS3. Along the same lines, all current browsers now recognise the "linear-gradient" property and can also implement a "repeating" version of it by placing commas between each declaration. The following is an example of how a green grid is generated on a white background:- body { background-image: linear-gradient(#ac9 1px, transparent 1px), linear-gradient(0deg, #ac9 1px, transparent 1px), linear-gradient(rgba(170,204,153,0.5) 1px, transparent 1px), linear-gradient(0deg, rgba(170,204,153,0.5) 1px, transparent 1px); background-size: 100px 100px, 100px 100px, 20px 20px, 20px 20px; background-position: -1px -1px, -1px -1px; background-color: #fff; } None of the browser vendors have at this stage committed to the standardized format, and in the case of the background-image declaration, each "linear-gradient" will need to be prefixed with a vendor prefix, e.g. -moz-, -ms-, -o-, or -webkit-. For those that recognise that "0deg" can be written without the "deg", the bad news is that the Microsoft version will not render without the "deg" suffix, and as a form of self protection I've added the "deg" suffix to all the declarations. A page showing the above background is at:- http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bristowe/test/sine-wave.html The little animation on the page will only show in those browsers that support the HTML5 Canvas tag, and if your browser doesn't support the "linear-gradient" property, the background will be a red grid image.

Pdfs are a proprietary format 'owned' by Adobe. It has many different versions. Jpgs are only compressed bit maps which are raw data. Either format isn't owned by anyone and have no versions they just are. Both make them as timeless as possible. The storing of text is just for saving information to a CD. Even if you paste raw text into the body of your web page it is HTML. Text and even RTF are not proprietary formats and have no version. > 1. Re: Web page permanency (the cohens) > 2. Re: Web page permanency (the cohens) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:07:15 -0700 > From: the cohens <the.cohens.in.california@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] Web page permanency > To: Warwick Sherring <warwick.sherring@bigpond.com> > Cc: freepages-help@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CABkUD9=65sz2xn7v2a8rzq6b4vCwb6CXVisVoSmPnqo6Taez1Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 4/27/12, Warwick Sherring <warwick.sherring@bigpond.com> wrote: > > > ... > > I agree with you about raw data formats being preferable to proprietary > > formats. > > Not all PDF viewers can view PDFs. jpg seems a more reliable format > to store documents. Standard, wll formatted html is a lot easier to > read than raw text. But the moment you add even css, there will be > antique browsers that may not display the content the way you want. > > So, yes, I agree, the simpler the better, as the content will stay > readable no matter how much technology changes. > > > I think there is always concern about Cloud computing sites, that is why > > I would place my data in at least two Cloud sites.... > > I just learned about Cloud sites, it makes more sense to me to put all > your data at rootsweb and worldconnect (the rootsweb tree site) and > have offline backup in addition to knowing that web.archive.org should > creat a permanent archive of all your pages once it's engines get > around to spidering them. I mean, is there any such thing as a free > Cloud site at this stage of the game, that you can be sure will be > around decades from now? I would not count on two of them, but maybe > one of them in addition to rootsweb for raw data. > > > I take your point about future interest in a family with many dead > > branches, which is why I have commenced placing more photos and articles > > of human and historical interest on my sites, so that the web pages will > > have a more general interest. > > But you never know when someone doing collateral lines may want to > follow through by searching your dead branches to see what happened. > However, I agree that if you put more content of general interest, it > will help your pages float higher up in it's search engine rankings. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:09:31 -0700 > From: the cohens <the.cohens.in.california@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [FreeHelp] Web page permanency > To: Warwick Sherring <warwick.sherring@bigpond.com> > Cc: freepages-help@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CABkUD9=BwzvRLtgpZZH6Vti9PRHm_VFZ7UzNU_5+si52S7yJcg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > LOL, I left out a word. I meant, not all PDF viewers can read all PDF > formats. I have a horrendous time with some PDFs, no way can my > system open them up. That is why I say jpg is more standard and > reliable. > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the FREEPAGES-HELP list administrator, send an email to > FREEPAGES-HELP-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the FREEPAGES-HELP mailing list, send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEPAGES-HELP-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of FREEPAGES-HELP Digest, Vol 7, Issue 42 > *********************************************

LOL, I left out a word. I meant, not all PDF viewers can read all PDF formats. I have a horrendous time with some PDFs, no way can my system open them up. That is why I say jpg is more standard and reliable.

On 4/27/12, Warwick Sherring <warwick.sherring@bigpond.com> wrote: > > ... > I agree with you about raw data formats being preferable to proprietary > formats. Not all PDF viewers can view PDFs. jpg seems a more reliable format to store documents. Standard, wll formatted html is a lot easier to read than raw text. But the moment you add even css, there will be antique browsers that may not display the content the way you want. So, yes, I agree, the simpler the better, as the content will stay readable no matter how much technology changes. > I think there is always concern about Cloud computing sites, that is why > I would place my data in at least two Cloud sites.... I just learned about Cloud sites, it makes more sense to me to put all your data at rootsweb and worldconnect (the rootsweb tree site) and have offline backup in addition to knowing that web.archive.org should creat a permanent archive of all your pages once it's engines get around to spidering them. I mean, is there any such thing as a free Cloud site at this stage of the game, that you can be sure will be around decades from now? I would not count on two of them, but maybe one of them in addition to rootsweb for raw data. > I take your point about future interest in a family with many dead > branches, which is why I have commenced placing more photos and articles > of human and historical interest on my sites, so that the web pages will > have a more general interest. But you never know when someone doing collateral lines may want to follow through by searching your dead branches to see what happened. However, I agree that if you put more content of general interest, it will help your pages float higher up in it's search engine rankings.

> 1. Re: FREEPAGES-HELP Digest, Vol 7, Issue 39 (Ronald Mesnard) Ronald You can have up to 11 different sites by using sub-directories, such as freepages.family or freepages.history etc. As you have noted I have two web pages and I have a third under construction that I will probably put under freepages.nostalgia. I agree with you about raw data formats being preferable to proprietary formats. I think there is always concern about Cloud computing sites, that is why I would place my data in at least two Cloud sites. I have recently been reading a book on Google and the book details the number of large web oriented companies that have been swallowed up or sunk without a trace in the recent past - this does not fill me with much confidence about web permanency. I take your point about future interest in a family with many dead branches, which is why I have commenced placing more photos and articles of human and historical interest on my sites, so that the web pages will have a more general interest. Regards Warwick Sherring Lismore NSW http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sherring/ http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~sherring/parry/

1. Web page permanency (Warwick Sherring) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:46:05 +1000 From: Warwick Sherring <warwick.sherring@bigpond.com> Subject: [FreeHelp] Web page permanency To: FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4F989ACD.60407@bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Thank you to all the people that contributed answers to my query on web page permanency. Like William Thompson, I have been around computers for a long time. I started off with a computer with no hard drive and programs run off floppy disks and I have seen floppy disks, tape drives and zip drives pass into oblivion, so I have little faith in the permanence of modern technology. I agree that PDF files appear to be a good option, although they have only been around since 1993. Jim Loudon suggested ASCII text files, which I think is a good suggestion as they have been around the longest. I think the suggestion of Cloud storage is a good suggestion, particularly if several sites are used. The distribution of paper copies, to relatives and institutions is necessary and I have found some of my best genealogy information in Public Libraries and FHS libraries. I intend to stick to a simple html/css format and steer clear of Javascript and other add-ons. I also intend to pursue the Wayback Machine web site archival approach through http://archive.org, which is also a good source of genealogy material. Thanks again to everybody. Warwick Sherring Lismore NSW http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sherring/ http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~sherring/parry/ Ron Mesnard Great suggestions! Before I get on, how did you get 2 sites? I have several very different projects with historical interest that I personally hold key artifacts and information. I have scraped one of my original sites for a more critical project. A site I figured would be permanent that featured my g-grandfather came down this year. I cleaned out the Red Murdocks page and put this one up. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~redmurdock/LutherMesnard.html I also have distributed CD and paper print outs to relatives. I am replying because I think you need to make decisions not on how old a format is but which is the most close to the raw data. Raw data will have the best staying power. ASCII is FAR safer than a PDF. ASCII, bitmaps and waves are raw data. RTF and jpg are just one step removed from raw data. These will out last any proprietary files no matter how huge the company that made the format is. I would not use any proprietary formats even PDFs and Doc files made by two monolithic companies will go under eventually. Acid free paper is good for more than a century. For that matter I have 150 year old newspaper clippings still readable. My oldest paper record is 300 yrs old and is still readable. archive.org is also a great idea. I suspect freepages will out-last archive.org but you never can tell. Publishing a book and donating a copy to the LDS library is another route to immortality. Low volume books can be published through Lulu and the like. All that aside, much information loses relevance in a century or two. No one will really care about a picture of someone who's complete line died out a century before. Eye witness accounts of historical events and pictures of ancestors will always have interest. I wouldn't trust Cloud storage. Plus how would you pay to keep your files indefinitely? I have had some very bad experiences with off loaded data to keep it secure. This was Microsoft. One day all my data was gone. They blamed it on me. Later I learned my problem was not isolated a contractor friend of mine told me he knew 5 companies that lost all their data with the same excuse. They blamed the problem on the companies. The contractor was put on indefinite hold when trying to get the data restored. Something happened to one of their data centers and they didn't have off site backups or the backups were also corrupt. I also started with computers before PCs had hard disks. I had 3 different operating systems so I could run the different applications made for the IBM PC. IBM PCs were 3-4K for a dual 360k floppy drive computer with 128 K of RAM, there was no personal computer more powerful than that back then. Clones cost less than half of a comparable PC.

Thank you to all the people that contributed answers to my query on web page permanency. Like William Thompson, I have been around computers for a long time. I started off with a computer with no hard drive and programs run off floppy disks and I have seen floppy disks, tape drives and zip drives pass into oblivion, so I have little faith in the permanence of modern technology. I agree that PDF files appear to be a good option, although they have only been around since 1993. Jim Loudon suggested ASCII text files, which I think is a good suggestion as they have been around the longest. I think the suggestion of Cloud storage is a good suggestion, particularly if several sites are used. The distribution of paper copies, to relatives and institutions is necessary and I have found some of my best genealogy information in Public Libraries and FHS libraries. I intend to stick to a simple html/css format and steer clear of Javascript and other add-ons. I also intend to pursue the Wayback Machine web site archival approach through http://archive.org, which is also a good source of genealogy material. Thanks again to everybody. Warwick Sherring Lismore NSW http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sherring/ http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~sherring/parry/

> ----- Original Message ----- > > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:53:42 +100 > > From: Warwick Sherring <warwick.sherring@bigpond.com> > > Subject: [FreeHelp] Web page permanency > > To: FREEPAGES-HELP@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <4F93AAF6.8080702@bigpond.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > To make my research available to others and to ensure its availability > > after I am 'pushing up daisies', I have created two web pages using html > > and css and I have considered the use of java script at times. > > > > However, on reading a recent transcript of an address by an archivist, I > > was wondering about the safety of straying from straight html/css. > > > > The archivist mainly talked about the problems of retaining material > > recorded on outmoded systems ie tapes and CDs; however he did also raise > > the problem of web pages that make calls to now defunct off-site plug-ins. > > > > I wondered if the more experienced web designers could comment on this > > matter. > > > > Warwick Sherring > > Lismore NSW > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sherring/ > > http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~sherring/parry/wormy You worry too much. Although some technology does go by the wayside CDs will probably have a long life. I suspect for the foreseeable future html and CSS will be grandfathered in to browsers because of legacy sites. Fortunatly, Microsoft who has little reguard for legacy has little power in the web world. I suspect they will be in for a huge suprise because their new browser will not support a good bit of legacy sites. Keeping things simple and not using plug-ins is wise. I would go so far as to say I don't think all the falshy entertaining plug-ins have much place in an informational setting. Someone stated Anglefire went down... http://twentyfifthohio.angelfire.com/page5.html seems to work for me. Often unbelievable treasures end up in the garbage when the genealogist/historian dies. I could tell you about losses I personally know of where even museum grade artifacts got tossed. Putting what you can on freepages is probably one of the best insurance you can do. Ancestry isn't going anywhere. This topic is very timely for me. The favorite site involving one of my ancestors, hosted by the library of UCLA dropped it now I am going to try to re-create it except more to my liking.

On Monday, April 23, 2012 11:20 AM (UTC+12) Greg wrote:- > When these sorts of discussions get started, I am reminded of the > following quote - > > "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." > - Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943 -------------------------------- The concept of personal/home computing hadn't surfaced in 1943, and if Thomas Watson had still been alive in 1973, he'd probably have coined the phrase, "Thirty years is a very long time in computing!" The dawn of the home computer had arrived and within the next decade the genisis of the PC was developed and the likes of Atari and Sinclair PC's reached the market place in the early 1980's. Back to the original question. The Worldwide web consortium (W3C) has the responsibility for ensuring that HTML / XML standards are adopted where proposed by browser designers, and deemed as appropriate. Their provisional proposals are implemented independantly by each browser developer and when finally adopted each browser will provide the same rendering of a given object. Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) fall into the same category. Those standards have evolved over the years and the proposed HTML version 5 is currently being adopted and implemented, but in the process the browsers are designed to accept and render deprecated code from earlier versions of HTML / CSS when encountered. So, the best way of ensuring your webpages are rendered correctly in the future is by making them compliant in either the current HTML version 4 XHTML Strict mode or HTML version 5 - which renders in Strict mode by default when the page starts with <!doctype html>. The W3C Validator is invaluable in checking you have things right. JavaScript is a end-user script language that allows manipulation of your page to ensure for instance; that the page renders correctly depending on the display size etc., and that some of the complex functions associated with form checking etc. can be accomplished prior to forwarding the data to the server. There are a number of JavaScript libraries around, of which jQuery is a notable one, and in general they will be supported well into the future. Other languages are implemented serverside, and at the end of the day they are all designed to input HTML data and ouput HTML data by whatever means they use. Image formats may change in the future, but like HTML, backwardly compatible conversion of formats will ultimately occur to allow their rendering in the format of the day. My advice is do the best you can now and that will pay off in the future. The longevity of your work will of course depend on having continuing server support, and currently those pages hosted by Rootsweb are likely to be available into the future, even if they become hosted by another entity. The Wayback Machine will most likely have a copy if all else fails! Barry

On 23/04/2012 3:26 PM, Barry Carlson wrote: > On Monday, April 23, 2012 11:20 AM (UTC+12) > Greg wrote:- > >> When these sorts of discussions get started, I am reminded of the >> following quote - >> >> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." >> - Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943 > -------------------------------- > > The concept of personal/home computing hadn't surfaced in 1943, and if > Thomas Watson had still been alive in 1973, he'd probably have coined the > phrase, "Thirty years is a very long time in computing!" The dawn of the > home computer had arrived and within the next decade the genisis of the PC > was developed and the likes of Atari and Sinclair PC's reached the market > place in the early 1980's. Then there is Ken OLSEN, and he said - > "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." > > - Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment > Corp., 1977 > The point I was trying to make was that no one, not even those apparently in authority, have any idea what will happen in the future. I am not sure if there is any certainty of the web pages that we create today will still be available in the future. Books may be out of fashion somewhat, but if enough of them are lodged in enough libraries, maybe one will survive. We can only do the best we can with the tools we have (following Barry's advice) and hope that some of it will still be there when our ggggggrandchildren are around to go looking for us. Greg