Ian, My reference to (My )Documents was shorthand for the registry key HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\ShellFolders\Per sonal. So what I meant was that if the output location does not currently correspond to the location in this key (i.e. the output path starts with this path), ask the user if we can move it (see below). As regards moving the folder, I had assumed you would be doing this when the new version of WinBMD was installed not every time WinBMD was run. Doing it at installation makes the decisions much simpler and hence more robust although I appreciate that it will have to be incorporated into the installer. I note that the current version of WinBMD uses InstallShield. Although I have never used InstallShield I would have thought it would provide such capability. As regards the question, how it is phrased will determine how easy people find to answer it. They have already been asked where they want the program to go, so something like "Location for output data files <browse box> (we will move your existing files here)" and then they have to change it if they want the files somewhere else. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Ian Brooke > Sent: 01 February 2009 19:28 > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > It's somewhat more complicated than you suggest " if it does > not start with > (My )Documents, ask " - there are no requirements in Windows > on the name > given to My Documents. The majority of people would leave it > as that but it > really can be called anything and exist anywhere and this is further > complicated by Vista's seemingly bisarre habits in locating > folders, it > certainly would never "start with My Documents" and may not have "My > Documents" in the path. > > I'm not entirely sure about your point on questioning the > user if they want > to move the folder. Do you mean every time WinBMD runs and > finds it's not > under My Documents or just the first time it finds it not > there? Clearly if > it's just the first time then I'm going to need a "question > asked" flag but > asking every time would I think be quite annoying. Are we sure that > transcribers are going to know whether they should be > answering Yes or No to > that questions or are we going to flood the lists with people > asking what > this means and what they should do? > > My purpose in using multiple flags was to try to avoid > problems and I think > I'm still going to have to do that, plus an additional flag about the > question. The "folder created" flag was intended to overcome > a problem if > there was already a folder below My Documents with my > proposed name - it's > very unlikely but possible. The files copied flag was to > overcome a problem > if the machine crashed or closed down between creating the folder and > completing copying all the files (that copy could take some > time). With > those 2 flags I can easily restart at the appropriate point. > > Part of my problem is that I don't have access to a Vista > computer so I > can't check what WinBMD would be showing as the path to it's > folder. It > *should* be the case that if I call the Windows routine to > get the path to > My Documents then that should match what WinBMD has stored as > the starting > part of the path to it's Output folder but that's a guess. > What I'm going > to need to do is produce a version which puts the path into > the ini file and > get someone to try it out and send me the ini after changing > the folder to > be in My Documents. Maybe I can see enough from what WinBMD > is currently > showing as the output folder path on its Files menu. Is > there anyone who > has Vista that could email me what WinBMD is currently > showing as it's > output path. Then create a new folder below My Documents and > switch WinBMD > to use that and again show me what WinBMD says it's path is. > You could then > switch it back to your original folder. > > If your preference is to have spaces rather than underscores > in the folder > name then that's not a problem. My preference is the other > way around but I > don't really mind either way. > > > Ian > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:40 AM > Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > > > >I must say that I had envisaged a somewhat simpler process - but that > > may be because I do not understand your proposals, or the > complexity of > > installing WinBMD! > > > > 1) I WinBMD is not already installed, silently set the > output folder to > > be under (My )Documents > > > > 2) If WinBMD is already installed check the output filename in the > > configuration file - if it does not start with (My > )Documents, ask the > > user if you should move it to (My )Documents and if they > say "yes", move > > the files and change the output filename in the configuration file. > > > > As I understand it WinBMD currently uses a .ini file to store > > configuration data and, I assume, this would not change in the new > > version. Having configuration data in both the registry and > an .ini is, > > from a software engineering point of view, undesirable. > > > > Also my proposal involves less error checking, e.g. if the first > > registry flag is set you have to check if the output folder > is already > > under (My )Documents. > > > > Plainly my proposal conflicts with your "I really don't > want to mess > > about checking where their current folder is and then > dciding whether to > > move it or not, it's probably error prone and overly > complex." But your > > proposal seemed to require you find where the current folder is > > (otherwise how could you move the files from it?). I can't see that > > asking the user if you should move their files for them, > and then not > > moving them if they answered "no", is complex. > > > > Finally, having underscore in a (My )Documents folder seems > to be very > > unusual. It would naturally be "WinBMD Output Files". > However, if you > > feel it necessary to differentiate the use by having > "Output Files" it > > would seem to me to be more logical to have this under a > "WinBMD" folder > > (i.e. (My )Documents\WinBMD\Output Files). > > > > Barrie > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > >> Ian Brooke > >> Sent: 31 January 2009 22:39 > >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> So here's what I would like to change WinBMD to do: > >> If the folder has not been created (so I would check a > registry flag); > >> Create a new folder under My Documents (I'd like to call it > >> "WinBMD_Output_Files"); > >> Set the registry flag to show it's created. > >> If the files have not ben moved (check another flag) > >> Copy all the files from the existing Output folder to the > >> new folder; > >> Create the 2nd flag. > >> Switch the Output path to use this new folder > >> > >> The existing Output folder could stay where it is and all the > >> files would > >> remain in it?? > >> > >> People could then move this new folder if they really wanted > >> (using the > >> existing Setpath feature on the Files menu). > >> > >> The only minor problem would be if people have installed > >> WinBMD elsewhere > >> (for examply on a drive of their choice) then their output > >> folder would be > >> changed to the new one, although again it's easy for them to > >> switch back. I > >> really don't want to mess about checking where their current > >> folder is and > >> then dciding whether to move it or not, it's probably error > >> prone and overly > >> complex. > >> > >> Any comments? > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:02 PM > >> Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> > >> > Exactly! Just as I have been saying, the *default* should > >> be a folder > >> > under Documents (My Documents in earlier Windows) then, as > >> you imply, it > >> > would be easy for users to find. > >> > > >> > Barrie > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > >> >> Keith Simpson > >> >> Sent: 28 January 2009 18:00 > >> >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > >> >> Subject: re Windows Wish List > >> >> Importance: High > >> >> > >> >> After reading all the messages regarding where files of > >> >> transcripts are > >> >> stored when saved . I would just like to say that a > >> picture is worth a > >> >> thousand words. When I have a new transcriber who is having > >> >> problems I send > >> >> them a screenshot of WinBMD . Along with the screen shot I > >> >> send detailed > >> >> instructions on how to change the default settings to a place > >> >> they would > >> >> recognise more easily. i.e. Storing their TRANSCRIBED FILES > >> >> in the DOCUMENTS > >> >> folder. > >> >> > >> >> So far this has worked and everybody seems quite happy. They > >> >> don't have to > >> >> go searching their hard drives for folders, which can prove > >> >> daunting for new > >> >> users of computers. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Keith > >> >> > >> >> Gandalf Syndicate > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------- > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > >> >> of the message > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > >> of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >

Excuse me butting in. . . I've been following the exchanges between Ian and Barrie with great interest, as I do feel the current default Save Path causes some problems. But I'm not following why we would want to move users' existing files at all. I thought the idea was to define a new default location that was easier to find for new users and "better" from a programmers' point of view, particularly with Vista. But shouldn't it apply only to new users/fresh installs, rather than upgrades? People who are already happily using WinBMD surely already know where to find their files and/or have defined a custom Save Path and don't want it changed. Much of Ian and Barrie's discussion seems to be about the difficulty of discovering the path to a user's current output folder and the mechanism of moving it. Couldn't all this be avoided if the installer checked for an existing WinBMD, and if it found one, left the current settings in place? I'm also wondering whether the installation would fail if, when asked where they want their files moved, users chose their existing output folder, since files can't be "moved" to the same place? Would they be forced to choose another path and then switch back? I'm not a programmer, so may well be missing the point here and am happy to be corrected :-) -- Nowl Archer Barrie wrote on Tue, 3 Feb 2009: >Ian, > >My reference to (My )Documents was shorthand for the registry key >HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\ShellFolders\Per >sonal. So what I meant was that if the output location does not >currently correspond to the location in this key (i.e. the output path >starts with this path), ask the user if we can move it (see below). > >As regards moving the folder, I had assumed you would be doing this when >the new version of WinBMD was installed not every time WinBMD was run. >Doing it at installation makes the decisions much simpler and hence more >robust although I appreciate that it will have to be incorporated into >the installer. I note that the current version of WinBMD uses >InstallShield. Although I have never used InstallShield I would have >thought it would provide such capability. > >As regards the question, how it is phrased will determine how easy >people find to answer it. They have already been asked where they want >the program to go, so something like "Location for output data files ><browse box> (we will move your existing files here)" and then they have >to change it if they want the files somewhere else.

Hi Barrie, Re (My) Documents - thanks for the explain. I don't however intend to use registry keys to locate it, partly because I am unsure if the key is exactly the smae under Vista and future version sof Windows. There is a Windows api routine that I can call that is reliable in Vista and hopefully in Windows 7 and returns the full path to the My Documents folder no matter where it is located and I would use this. Re Installer moving folder. There is no facility to do this in Installshield (at least in the version I have) or in other installers I have looked at. (e.g. Wise) I cannot see how it would work either - we cannot be certain where the folder is located or what it is called so how do we tell the installer what to move? It's also a very 'dangerous' thing to do with the installer - how do we handle it when a folder or file with our name exists under My Documents and how do we tell that the Installer could not create it (when it already exists)? The more I think about this problem the less I like it and the more I am attracted to just telling people how to do it manually. How about I enhance the existing routine that allows people to define a new output folder so that it questions if they also want to copy all their files and/or creates the folder for them? Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > Ian, > > My reference to (My )Documents was shorthand for the registry key > HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\ShellFolders\Per > sonal. So what I meant was that if the output location does not > currently correspond to the location in this key (i.e. the output path > starts with this path), ask the user if we can move it (see below). > > As regards moving the folder, I had assumed you would be doing this when > the new version of WinBMD was installed not every time WinBMD was run. > Doing it at installation makes the decisions much simpler and hence more > robust although I appreciate that it will have to be incorporated into > the installer. I note that the current version of WinBMD uses > InstallShield. Although I have never used InstallShield I would have > thought it would provide such capability. > > As regards the question, how it is phrased will determine how easy > people find to answer it. They have already been asked where they want > the program to go, so something like "Location for output data files > <browse box> (we will move your existing files here)" and then they have > to change it if they want the files somewhere else. > > Barrie > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> Ian Brooke >> Sent: 01 February 2009 19:28 >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> It's somewhat more complicated than you suggest " if it does >> not start with >> (My )Documents, ask " - there are no requirements in Windows >> on the name >> given to My Documents. The majority of people would leave it >> as that but it >> really can be called anything and exist anywhere and this is further >> complicated by Vista's seemingly bisarre habits in locating >> folders, it >> certainly would never "start with My Documents" and may not have "My >> Documents" in the path. >> >> I'm not entirely sure about your point on questioning the >> user if they want >> to move the folder. Do you mean every time WinBMD runs and >> finds it's not >> under My Documents or just the first time it finds it not >> there? Clearly if >> it's just the first time then I'm going to need a "question >> asked" flag but >> asking every time would I think be quite annoying. Are we sure that >> transcribers are going to know whether they should be >> answering Yes or No to >> that questions or are we going to flood the lists with people >> asking what >> this means and what they should do? >> >> My purpose in using multiple flags was to try to avoid >> problems and I think >> I'm still going to have to do that, plus an additional flag about the >> question. The "folder created" flag was intended to overcome >> a problem if >> there was already a folder below My Documents with my >> proposed name - it's >> very unlikely but possible. The files copied flag was to >> overcome a problem >> if the machine crashed or closed down between creating the folder and >> completing copying all the files (that copy could take some >> time). With >> those 2 flags I can easily restart at the appropriate point. >> >> Part of my problem is that I don't have access to a Vista >> computer so I >> can't check what WinBMD would be showing as the path to it's >> folder. It >> *should* be the case that if I call the Windows routine to >> get the path to >> My Documents then that should match what WinBMD has stored as >> the starting >> part of the path to it's Output folder but that's a guess. >> What I'm going >> to need to do is produce a version which puts the path into >> the ini file and >> get someone to try it out and send me the ini after changing >> the folder to >> be in My Documents. Maybe I can see enough from what WinBMD >> is currently >> showing as the output folder path on its Files menu. Is >> there anyone who >> has Vista that could email me what WinBMD is currently >> showing as it's >> output path. Then create a new folder below My Documents and >> switch WinBMD >> to use that and again show me what WinBMD says it's path is. >> You could then >> switch it back to your original folder. >> >> If your preference is to have spaces rather than underscores >> in the folder >> name then that's not a problem. My preference is the other >> way around but I >> don't really mind either way. >> >> >> Ian >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:40 AM >> Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >I must say that I had envisaged a somewhat simpler process - but that >> > may be because I do not understand your proposals, or the >> complexity of >> > installing WinBMD! >> > >> > 1) I WinBMD is not already installed, silently set the >> output folder to >> > be under (My )Documents >> > >> > 2) If WinBMD is already installed check the output filename in the >> > configuration file - if it does not start with (My >> )Documents, ask the >> > user if you should move it to (My )Documents and if they >> say "yes", move >> > the files and change the output filename in the configuration file. >> > >> > As I understand it WinBMD currently uses a .ini file to store >> > configuration data and, I assume, this would not change in the new >> > version. Having configuration data in both the registry and >> an .ini is, >> > from a software engineering point of view, undesirable. >> > >> > Also my proposal involves less error checking, e.g. if the first >> > registry flag is set you have to check if the output folder >> is already >> > under (My )Documents. >> > >> > Plainly my proposal conflicts with your "I really don't >> want to mess >> > about checking where their current folder is and then >> dciding whether to >> > move it or not, it's probably error prone and overly >> complex." But your >> > proposal seemed to require you find where the current folder is >> > (otherwise how could you move the files from it?). I can't see that >> > asking the user if you should move their files for them, >> and then not >> > moving them if they answered "no", is complex. >> > >> > Finally, having underscore in a (My )Documents folder seems >> to be very >> > unusual. It would naturally be "WinBMD Output Files". >> However, if you >> > feel it necessary to differentiate the use by having >> "Output Files" it >> > would seem to me to be more logical to have this under a >> "WinBMD" folder >> > (i.e. (My )Documents\WinBMD\Output Files). >> > >> > Barrie >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com >> >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> >> Ian Brooke >> >> Sent: 31 January 2009 22:39 >> >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com >> >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >> So here's what I would like to change WinBMD to do: >> >> If the folder has not been created (so I would check a >> registry flag); >> >> Create a new folder under My Documents (I'd like to call it >> >> "WinBMD_Output_Files"); >> >> Set the registry flag to show it's created. >> >> If the files have not ben moved (check another flag) >> >> Copy all the files from the existing Output folder to the >> >> new folder; >> >> Create the 2nd flag. >> >> Switch the Output path to use this new folder >> >> >> >> The existing Output folder could stay where it is and all the >> >> files would >> >> remain in it?? >> >> >> >> People could then move this new folder if they really wanted >> >> (using the >> >> existing Setpath feature on the Files menu). >> >> >> >> The only minor problem would be if people have installed >> >> WinBMD elsewhere >> >> (for examply on a drive of their choice) then their output >> >> folder would be >> >> changed to the new one, although again it's easy for them to >> >> switch back. I >> >> really don't want to mess about checking where their current >> >> folder is and >> >> then dciding whether to move it or not, it's probably error >> >> prone and overly >> >> complex. >> >> >> >> Any comments? >> >> >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> >> >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:02 PM >> >> Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >> >> >> > Exactly! Just as I have been saying, the *default* should >> >> be a folder >> >> > under Documents (My Documents in earlier Windows) then, as >> >> you imply, it >> >> > would be easy for users to find. >> >> > >> >> > Barrie >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com >> >> >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> >> >> Keith Simpson >> >> >> Sent: 28 January 2009 18:00 >> >> >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com >> >> >> Subject: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> Importance: High >> >> >> >> >> >> After reading all the messages regarding where files of >> >> >> transcripts are >> >> >> stored when saved . I would just like to say that a >> >> picture is worth a >> >> >> thousand words. When I have a new transcriber who is having >> >> >> problems I send >> >> >> them a screenshot of WinBMD . Along with the screen shot I >> >> >> send detailed >> >> >> instructions on how to change the default settings to a place >> >> >> they would >> >> >> recognise more easily. i.e. Storing their TRANSCRIBED FILES >> >> >> in the DOCUMENTS >> >> >> folder. >> >> >> >> >> >> So far this has worked and everybody seems quite happy. They >> >> >> don't have to >> >> >> go searching their hard drives for folders, which can prove >> >> >> daunting for new >> >> >> users of computers. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >> >> Gandalf Syndicate >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> >> >> of the message >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------- >> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> >> of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >