Nowl, Thank you for the clarification. I think the situation where someone has problems with certain characters is a temporary issue in the sense that they would upload their next transcription normally and then get any districts file update. However, the situation where transcribers opt to use File Management upload is more of a concern. I would go back to my original suggestion to solve this; the new districts file should be available as a patch, that is an install package that would just replace the districts file when it was executed. I believe this is far safer than expecting users to download a file and then use it to replace the existing districts file. It does, however, considerably increase the effort required to publish a new districts file. The "advertising" looks like a special message that File Management presents to the user when there is a new districts file but it is presented only once otherwise it will will occur so often it will be ignored. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nowl > Sent: 15 February 2009 14:18 > To: FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Revised district lists for WinBMD > > Barrie, I believe Anne is asking if volunteers who upload > through File > Management, rather than WinBMD, will be alerted that a new districts > file is available and be able to fetch it manually. > > Anne mentioned situations when File Management has to be used, for > example when WinBMD won't allow input of certain characters. > But I have > quite a few transcribers who take a batch of pages at a time > and prefer > to upload the lot at once through File Management, as normal > practice. > So yes, I'd think it would be a good idea to advertise when a > new file > is available. > > -- > Nowl > > > Archer Barrie wrote on Sun, 15 Feb 2009: > > >I think that giving the warning when the user next starts > transcribing > >is a very good idea. It had been suggested we give the > warning when the > >file is downloaded but I think your suggestion is better. > > > >I don't understand your reference to manual download. We do > not believe > >that users have ever been advised to edit the districts file. Even if > >they had I am not sure why they would need to manually > download it. In > >fact, with the way the system will probably work, the file would be > >available for download but do we need to advertise this? > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >

The only quick fix would be for me to send a version of the WinBMD program which allows numbers to the coordinator and let him/her give it to the transcribers, they could just save it into their WinBMD folder. The longer this program is used, the more I find that some of the checks that the program is doing are no longer valid . I'm not sure if this is because they have changed with time or if I was simply too rigorous. They were or at least seemed a good idea at the time, even though they duplicate checks that the FreeBMD upload carries out, it seemed better that the transcriber finds errors before trying to upload. I don't really know what the best long-term answer is - to remove them altogether or try to bring them back in line with FreeBMD or something else. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Raymond" <allan_raymond@btinternet.com> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Revised district lists for WinBMD > In addition to keeping the WinBMD standard District Picklist up to date > how are we going to deal with Districts such as "Northumberland North > First" which came into being on 1 January 1937. > > I'm now starting to allocate 1937 to Syndicates and scans are showing > "Northumberland North First" as "Nthhmbld.N.1st". WinBMD doesn't accept > numerals in the District Field and it isn't really on to expect > transcribers to adopt the process in > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#6ah which really was to cover a > possible mistype in the District name? > > Allan Raymond > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com>; > <freebmd-scratchpad@mailman.aldigital.co.uk> > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:34 AM > Subject: Revised district lists for WinBMD > > > I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of WinBMD can be > enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of > date. > > The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are continually revising > the district information on the system but transcribers using WinBMD are > working with an out of date version of this information. The current > proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system it will also > download a new version of the district file if one exists. This means > that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the new districts > list. > > The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by > downloading the new districts list. > > If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like clarification of > the proposal, please let me know. > > Barrie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Barrie, I believe Anne is asking if volunteers who upload through File Management, rather than WinBMD, will be alerted that a new districts file is available and be able to fetch it manually. Anne mentioned situations when File Management has to be used, for example when WinBMD won't allow input of certain characters. But I have quite a few transcribers who take a batch of pages at a time and prefer to upload the lot at once through File Management, as normal practice. So yes, I'd think it would be a good idea to advertise when a new file is available. -- Nowl Archer Barrie wrote on Sun, 15 Feb 2009: >I think that giving the warning when the user next starts transcribing >is a very good idea. It had been suggested we give the warning when the >file is downloaded but I think your suggestion is better. > >I don't understand your reference to manual download. We do not believe >that users have ever been advised to edit the districts file. Even if >they had I am not sure why they would need to manually download it. In >fact, with the way the system will probably work, the file would be >available for download but do we need to advertise this?

Christopher, Could you explain the problem? The information in the district list contains the valid dates for the district and the volume numbers for different dates. So in WinBMD the district picklist appears to be only populated with districts that are valid for the year being transcribed and the suggested volume is the correct one for the year being transcribed. However, you seem to be suggesting that we check this explicitly on upload, so that if the district/volume does not correspond to the district list a warning is given. The problem I see with this is that it is clear people do not like warnings (sounds like something you get if stopped for speeding, perhaps!) and they would get a lot of them if we did this. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Richards > Sent: 15 February 2009 09:12 > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Revised district lists for WinBMD > > This looks like an excellent idea. > > It doesn't totally meet the problem of districts where the > volume number > changes. > > I wonder - when a file is uploaded what checks are made? Would it be > feasible to look at instances of Dudley, Kings Norton and > others where > the volume number changes and flag up potential errors? > > Christopher Richards > > Archer Barrie wrote: > > I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of > WinBMD can be > > enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of > > date. > > > > The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are > continually revising > > the district information on the system but transcribers > using WinBMD are > > working with an out of date version of this information. The current > > proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system > it will also > > download a new version of the district file if one exists. > This means > > that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the > new districts > > list. > > > > The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by > > downloading the new districts list. > > > > If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like > clarification of > > the proposal, please let me know. > > > > Barrie > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >

Anne, I think that giving the warning when the user next starts transcribing is a very good idea. It had been suggested we give the warning when the file is downloaded but I think your suggestion is better. I don't understand your reference to manual download. We do not believe that users have ever been advised to edit the districts file. Even if they had I am not sure why they would need to manually download it. In fact, with the way the system will probably work, the file would be available for download but do we need to advertise this? Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: anne.cruise1@ntlworld.com [mailto:anne.cruise1@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 15 February 2009 09:16 > To: freebmd-scratchpad@mailman.aldigital.co.uk; > freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Cc: Archer Barrie > Subject: Re: Revised district lists for WinBMD > > Hi! > > a couple of thoughts: > > Does the file need to exist somewhere with instructions for > manual download as (after reading mails on editing files) I > believe that transcribers who have edited their file in > Notepad need to upload manually? And a notice on the manual > upload page to say that such a new file exists? And perhaps a > "Click here" to automatically download / install it? > > First access to the revised list should trigger a warning > notice / audible signal to avoid typists who don't always > look at the screen using out-of-date keystrokes and then > having to make lots of changes when Verifying, even if a > notice appears after the download to say that it has taken place. > > -- > Anne > > > ---- Archer Barrie <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote: > > I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of > WinBMD can be > > enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of > > date. > > > > The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are > continually revising > > the district information on the system but transcribers > using WinBMD are > > working with an out of date version of this information. The current > > proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system > it will also > > download a new version of the district file if one exists. > This means > > that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the > new districts > > list. > > > > The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by > > downloading the new districts list. > > > > If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like > clarification of > > the proposal, please let me know. > > > > Barrie > >

Might we also discuss including some specific alternative district names in the list of searchable districts? Queries that have come in to the FreeBMD-admins 'mail for review' include -St Pancras not searchable before 1901 [ you have to realise that you search on 'Pancras] -London City not searchable before 1870 [you have to realise that you search on 'City of London'] Given that St. Giles usually shows up as Bloomsbury in the 1840s, should Bloomsbury be a searchable district? Similarly, Highworth usually shows up as Swindon from 1838 to 1846, so should Swindon be searchable before 1899 when it became the official name? If you do a search on a moderately common surname (I used WHITE) in 'City of London' , or in 'St.Giles' or 'Highworth' or 'St Pancras' you find that the alternative name is more or less widely used. By all means have 'London City - see City of London (1837-1869)' and so on. I realise that if people are really interested in a district they can follow links to the UKBMD GENUKI pages maintained by Brett Langston, but not everyone thinks of that. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com>; <freebmd-scratchpad@mailman.aldigital.co.uk> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Revised district lists for WinBMD >I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of WinBMD can be > enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of > date. > > The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are continually revising > the district information on the system but transcribers using WinBMD are > working with an out of date version of this information. The current > proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system it will also > download a new version of the district file if one exists. This means > that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the new districts > list. > > The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by > downloading the new districts list. > > If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like clarification of > the proposal, please let me know. > > Barrie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi! a couple of thoughts: Does the file need to exist somewhere with instructions for manual download as (after reading mails on editing files) I believe that transcribers who have edited their file in Notepad need to upload manually? And a notice on the manual upload page to say that such a new file exists? And perhaps a "Click here" to automatically download / install it? First access to the revised list should trigger a warning notice / audible signal to avoid typists who don't always look at the screen using out-of-date keystrokes and then having to make lots of changes when Verifying, even if a notice appears after the download to say that it has taken place. -- Anne ---- Archer Barrie <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote: > I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of WinBMD can be > enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of > date. > > The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are continually revising > the district information on the system but transcribers using WinBMD are > working with an out of date version of this information. The current > proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system it will also > download a new version of the district file if one exists. This means > that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the new districts > list. > > The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by > downloading the new districts list. > > If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like clarification of > the proposal, please let me know. > > Barrie

This looks like an excellent idea. It doesn't totally meet the problem of districts where the volume number changes. I wonder - when a file is uploaded what checks are made? Would it be feasible to look at instances of Dudley, Kings Norton and others where the volume number changes and flag up potential errors? Christopher Richards Archer Barrie wrote: > I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of WinBMD can be > enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of > date. > > The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are continually revising > the district information on the system but transcribers using WinBMD are > working with an out of date version of this information. The current > proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system it will also > download a new version of the district file if one exists. This means > that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the new districts > list. > > The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by > downloading the new districts list. > > If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like clarification of > the proposal, please let me know. > > Barrie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

I am discussing with Ian Brooke how the next version of WinBMD can be enhanced to address the problem of the district list getting out of date. The issue is that the District Aliasing Team are continually revising the district information on the system but transcribers using WinBMD are working with an out of date version of this information. The current proposal is that when WinBMD uploads a file to the system it will also download a new version of the district file if one exists. This means that subsequently the transcriber will be working with the new districts list. The transcriber's locally added districts will not be affected by downloading the new districts list. If anyone can see any issues with this, or would like clarification of the proposal, please let me know. Barrie

Barrie, I understand that you are proposing less work but I can't see how it could safely work. I'm still stuck on the problem that what if a file or folder with our name already exists under My Documents. I can't have the installer create it (because it would fail if there was one there already) and then when WinBMD is first run it could find a folder under my documents and start using it without knowing it may not be the right one. The only safe way is for the installer to create it as it does now under WinBMD and then have WinBMD move it in response to the user clicking the menu option. And Yes I did mean the Define Save Path menu item. The reason I suggested copying the files is simply so the user has all his/her output files together in one folder. Why would we want to have some in the old folder and some in the new one? Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 4:47 PM Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > Ian, > > I am actually suggesting less change! I think the ONLY change that needs > to be made is for the default output folder to be under (My )Documents > for new installs only. > > By the "change folder routine" do you mean File/Define Save Path? If so > I really don't think it should move files. It isn't what it does at the > moment and it is not what the name suggests. If you want to do it I > suggest it should be a new menu item, File/Relocate Output (or some > such). > > Yes, technically all files that may change from user to user should be > under (My )Documents. You would find the path to the .ini file from the > Registry (HKCU) (or move the .ini data into the Registry). > > Barrie > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> Ian Brooke >> Sent: 08 February 2009 22:07 >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> Although I would agree with what you say about it being >> desireable, I'm >> really unsure that moving output files below My Documents or >> wherever really >> achieves anything other than some users being able to locate >> their files, >> and for many their current location below WinBMD is easy to >> find and doesn't >> really affect anything. Also to suggest a technical >> desireability to have >> them below My Documents ignores all the other files which are >> located in the >> WinBMD folder, such as the ini file, the district and names >> files etc, all >> these are updated by WinBMD. If there is a technical need to >> have the output >> files elsewhere then surely that also holds true of these >> other files and >> yet I cannot think of a way to relocate the ini file (as the >> program needs >> to locate it in order to know where it is located) and moving >> the others is >> very difficult. >> >> All I'm really trying to say is that maybe the technical >> advantages of >> moving the output folder are not worth the technical >> difficulties of doing >> it automatically. I think we should go with amending the >> existing change >> folder routine to create the new folder, defaulting to below >> My Documents, >> and copy the files for the user It's easy, almost risk free >> to do and >> allows those users who want to leave it where it is to do so. >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:35 AM >> Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >I am sorry Allan, but the output folder for should NOT be a >> subfolder of >> > WinBMD. It is like that for historical reasons but for the latest >> > versions of Windows (say from XP onwards) it is a >> deprecated location. >> > If users need to move their output folder it should be under (My >> > )Documents which is where almost every other piece of >> software puts its >> > output. This is why users would find it easier to find the files. >> > >> > There are many reasons for using (My )Documents, some quite >> technical, >> > but a simple one is that it works for PCs with multiple >> users. If users, >> > for example yourself, wish to have the output files >> elsewhere that is >> > fine, but the default, and what we recommend, must be under (My >> > )Documents. >> > >> > Barrie >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com >> >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> >> Allan Raymond >> >> Sent: 04 February 2009 14:06 >> >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com >> >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >> I'm also at a complete loss regarding all this discussion. >> >> >> >> If volunteers are unable to find the default Output folder >> >> location for >> >> WinBMD produced files which I happen to maintain should be in >> >> a subfolder of >> >> the WinBMD what chance have they got of understanding the >> >> proposed new >> >> WinBMD requirements. >> >> >> >> We seem to be creating a rod for our back, this discussion >> >> started because >> >> of a suggested requirement to assist volunteers in being able >> >> to locate >> >> their files to send to their Co-ordinators. >> >> >> >> If it was recommended that all files produced by WinBMD were >> >> to be held in >> >> the default subfolder on WinBMD aptly called Output folder >> >> this problem >> >> should resolve itself without all these changes to WinBMD. >> >> >> >> I keep saying I have WinBMD to work on Vista and have no >> >> trouble finding >> >> where the WinBMD files are held C:/WinBMD/Output. >> >> >> >> I believe I have found a solution to the problem why some >> >> volunteers can't >> >> get WinBMD on Vista and fingers crossed I have managed to get >> >> two long >> >> suffering Vista volunteers to get WinBMD to work following >> my simple >> >> suggestion of C:/WinBMD/Output. >> >> >> >> Allan Raymond >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> >> >> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:17 PM >> >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >> >> >> Excuse me butting in. . . I've been following the exchanges >> >> between Ian >> >> and Barrie with great interest, as I do feel the current >> default Save >> >> Path causes some problems. But I'm not following why we >> would want to >> >> move users' existing files at all. >> >> >> >> I thought the idea was to define a new default location that >> >> was easier >> >> to find for new users and "better" from a programmers' >> point of view, >> >> particularly with Vista. But shouldn't it apply only to new >> >> users/fresh >> >> installs, rather than upgrades? People who are already >> happily using >> >> WinBMD surely already know where to find their files and/or >> >> have defined >> >> a custom Save Path and don't want it changed. >> >> >> >> Much of Ian and Barrie's discussion seems to be about the >> >> difficulty of >> >> discovering the path to a user's current output folder and >> >> the mechanism >> >> of moving it. Couldn't all this be avoided if the installer >> >> checked for >> >> an existing WinBMD, and if it found one, left the current >> settings in >> >> place? >> >> >> >> I'm also wondering whether the installation would fail if, >> when asked >> >> where they want their files moved, users chose their >> existing output >> >> folder, since files can't be "moved" to the same place? >> Would they be >> >> forced to choose another path and then switch back? >> >> >> >> I'm not a programmer, so may well be missing the point here >> >> and am happy >> >> to be corrected :-) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Nowl >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> >> of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ian, Please see embedded responses. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Ian Brooke > Sent: 08 February 2009 21:47 > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > Hi Barrie, > Re (My) Documents - thanks for the explain. I don't however > intend to use > registry keys to locate it, partly because I am unsure if the > key is exactly > the smae under Vista and future version sof Windows. There > is a Windows api > routine that I can call that is reliable in Vista and > hopefully in Windows 7 > and returns the full path to the My Documents folder no > matter where it is > located and I would use this. That's fine but I hope that whatever you do will be compatible with previous versions of Windows, particularly XP (which is still the standard for corporates). > Re Installer moving folder. There is no facility to do this in > Installshield (at least in the version I have) or in other > installers I have > looked at. (e.g. Wise) I cannot see how it would work either > - we cannot be > certain where the folder is located or what it is called so > how do we tell > the installer what to move? It's also a very 'dangerous' > thing to do with > the installer - how do we handle it when a folder or file > with our name > exists under My Documents and how do we tell that the > Installer could not > create it (when it already exists)? I am happy for the installer not to move the files, although I don't agree that it is more dangerous than the program doing it or not possible in InstallShield (RenameFile does it). > The more I think about this problem the less I like it and > the more I am > attracted to just telling people how to do it manually. How > about I enhance > the existing routine that allows people to define a new > output folder so > that it questions if they also want to copy all their files > and/or creates > the folder for them? As indicated in another thread, I don't think you should copy the files at all. Creating the folder would be OK since I assume that happen anyway when they saved the next file to the default path. (I am having difficulty understaning how "do it manually" is compatible with the proposed enhancement.) > > Ian > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:00 PM > Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > > > > Ian, > > > > My reference to (My )Documents was shorthand for the registry key > > > HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\ShellF > olders\Per > > sonal. So what I meant was that if the output location does not > > currently correspond to the location in this key (i.e. the > output path > > starts with this path), ask the user if we can move it (see below). > > > > As regards moving the folder, I had assumed you would be > doing this when > > the new version of WinBMD was installed not every time > WinBMD was run. > > Doing it at installation makes the decisions much simpler > and hence more > > robust although I appreciate that it will have to be > incorporated into > > the installer. I note that the current version of WinBMD uses > > InstallShield. Although I have never used InstallShield I would have > > thought it would provide such capability. > > > > As regards the question, how it is phrased will determine how easy > > people find to answer it. They have already been asked > where they want > > the program to go, so something like "Location for output data files > > <browse box> (we will move your existing files here)" and > then they have > > to change it if they want the files somewhere else. > > > > Barrie > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > >> Ian Brooke > >> Sent: 01 February 2009 19:28 > >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> It's somewhat more complicated than you suggest " if it does > >> not start with > >> (My )Documents, ask " - there are no requirements in Windows > >> on the name > >> given to My Documents. The majority of people would leave it > >> as that but it > >> really can be called anything and exist anywhere and this > is further > >> complicated by Vista's seemingly bisarre habits in locating > >> folders, it > >> certainly would never "start with My Documents" and may > not have "My > >> Documents" in the path. > >> > >> I'm not entirely sure about your point on questioning the > >> user if they want > >> to move the folder. Do you mean every time WinBMD runs and > >> finds it's not > >> under My Documents or just the first time it finds it not > >> there? Clearly if > >> it's just the first time then I'm going to need a "question > >> asked" flag but > >> asking every time would I think be quite annoying. Are we > sure that > >> transcribers are going to know whether they should be > >> answering Yes or No to > >> that questions or are we going to flood the lists with people > >> asking what > >> this means and what they should do? > >> > >> My purpose in using multiple flags was to try to avoid > >> problems and I think > >> I'm still going to have to do that, plus an additional > flag about the > >> question. The "folder created" flag was intended to overcome > >> a problem if > >> there was already a folder below My Documents with my > >> proposed name - it's > >> very unlikely but possible. The files copied flag was to > >> overcome a problem > >> if the machine crashed or closed down between creating the > folder and > >> completing copying all the files (that copy could take some > >> time). With > >> those 2 flags I can easily restart at the appropriate point. > >> > >> Part of my problem is that I don't have access to a Vista > >> computer so I > >> can't check what WinBMD would be showing as the path to it's > >> folder. It > >> *should* be the case that if I call the Windows routine to > >> get the path to > >> My Documents then that should match what WinBMD has stored as > >> the starting > >> part of the path to it's Output folder but that's a guess. > >> What I'm going > >> to need to do is produce a version which puts the path into > >> the ini file and > >> get someone to try it out and send me the ini after changing > >> the folder to > >> be in My Documents. Maybe I can see enough from what WinBMD > >> is currently > >> showing as the output folder path on its Files menu. Is > >> there anyone who > >> has Vista that could email me what WinBMD is currently > >> showing as it's > >> output path. Then create a new folder below My Documents and > >> switch WinBMD > >> to use that and again show me what WinBMD says it's path is. > >> You could then > >> switch it back to your original folder. > >> > >> If your preference is to have spaces rather than underscores > >> in the folder > >> name then that's not a problem. My preference is the other > >> way around but I > >> don't really mind either way. > >> > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:40 AM > >> Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> > >> >I must say that I had envisaged a somewhat simpler > process - but that > >> > may be because I do not understand your proposals, or the > >> complexity of > >> > installing WinBMD! > >> > > >> > 1) I WinBMD is not already installed, silently set the > >> output folder to > >> > be under (My )Documents > >> > > >> > 2) If WinBMD is already installed check the output > filename in the > >> > configuration file - if it does not start with (My > >> )Documents, ask the > >> > user if you should move it to (My )Documents and if they > >> say "yes", move > >> > the files and change the output filename in the > configuration file. > >> > > >> > As I understand it WinBMD currently uses a .ini file to store > >> > configuration data and, I assume, this would not change > in the new > >> > version. Having configuration data in both the registry and > >> an .ini is, > >> > from a software engineering point of view, undesirable. > >> > > >> > Also my proposal involves less error checking, e.g. if the first > >> > registry flag is set you have to check if the output folder > >> is already > >> > under (My )Documents. > >> > > >> > Plainly my proposal conflicts with your "I really don't > >> want to mess > >> > about checking where their current folder is and then > >> dciding whether to > >> > move it or not, it's probably error prone and overly > >> complex." But your > >> > proposal seemed to require you find where the current folder is > >> > (otherwise how could you move the files from it?). I > can't see that > >> > asking the user if you should move their files for them, > >> and then not > >> > moving them if they answered "no", is complex. > >> > > >> > Finally, having underscore in a (My )Documents folder seems > >> to be very > >> > unusual. It would naturally be "WinBMD Output Files". > >> However, if you > >> > feel it necessary to differentiate the use by having > >> "Output Files" it > >> > would seem to me to be more logical to have this under a > >> "WinBMD" folder > >> > (i.e. (My )Documents\WinBMD\Output Files). > >> > > >> > Barrie > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > >> >> Ian Brooke > >> >> Sent: 31 January 2009 22:39 > >> >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > >> >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >> >> > >> >> So here's what I would like to change WinBMD to do: > >> >> If the folder has not been created (so I would check a > >> registry flag); > >> >> Create a new folder under My Documents (I'd like to call it > >> >> "WinBMD_Output_Files"); > >> >> Set the registry flag to show it's created. > >> >> If the files have not ben moved (check another flag) > >> >> Copy all the files from the existing Output folder to the > >> >> new folder; > >> >> Create the 2nd flag. > >> >> Switch the Output path to use this new folder > >> >> > >> >> The existing Output folder could stay where it is and all the > >> >> files would > >> >> remain in it?? > >> >> > >> >> People could then move this new folder if they really wanted > >> >> (using the > >> >> existing Setpath feature on the Files menu). > >> >> > >> >> The only minor problem would be if people have installed > >> >> WinBMD elsewhere > >> >> (for examply on a drive of their choice) then their output > >> >> folder would be > >> >> changed to the new one, although again it's easy for them to > >> >> switch back. I > >> >> really don't want to mess about checking where their current > >> >> folder is and > >> >> then dciding whether to move it or not, it's probably error > >> >> prone and overly > >> >> complex. > >> >> > >> >> Any comments? > >> >> > >> >> Ian > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > >> >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > >> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:02 PM > >> >> Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Exactly! Just as I have been saying, the *default* should > >> >> be a folder > >> >> > under Documents (My Documents in earlier Windows) then, as > >> >> you imply, it > >> >> > would be easy for users to find. > >> >> > > >> >> > Barrie > >> >> > > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> >> >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > >> >> >> Keith Simpson > >> >> >> Sent: 28 January 2009 18:00 > >> >> >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > >> >> >> Subject: re Windows Wish List > >> >> >> Importance: High > >> >> >> > >> >> >> After reading all the messages regarding where files of > >> >> >> transcripts are > >> >> >> stored when saved . I would just like to say that a > >> >> picture is worth a > >> >> >> thousand words. When I have a new transcriber who is having > >> >> >> problems I send > >> >> >> them a screenshot of WinBMD . Along with the screen shot I > >> >> >> send detailed > >> >> >> instructions on how to change the default settings to a place > >> >> >> they would > >> >> >> recognise more easily. i.e. Storing their TRANSCRIBED FILES > >> >> >> in the DOCUMENTS > >> >> >> folder. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> So far this has worked and everybody seems quite happy. They > >> >> >> don't have to > >> >> >> go searching their hard drives for folders, which can prove > >> >> >> daunting for new > >> >> >> users of computers. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Keith > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Gandalf Syndicate > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- > >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > >> >> >> of the message > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ------------------------------- > >> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' > >> >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------- > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > >> >> of the message > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > >> of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:22:18 +0000 > From: <anne.cruise1@ntlworld.com> > To: Archer Barrie <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > > OK, "WinBMD Output" then. Apologies for the carets, it's a notation I use at work when I help out colleagues... > > What does your oblique stroke indicate? A new Folder followed by a new folder inside that, or just the full folder name? You can't use an oblique in a folder name, and I can't understand why you would want to go down two levels to having a folder named WinBMD and a folder inside that called Output. What is going into the outer folder called "WinBMD"? Nothing? Then why create it? And calling it "WinBMD" *may* create problems if someone does a search for "WinBMD" on its own, I suspect. > > Sub-folders can be set up by those competent enough or wishing to file / sort their output files but for the purposes of getting the output into the right location, one folder under "Documents" should suffice. > > -- > Anne > > > ---- Archer Barrie <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote: > > Anne, > > > > Good point! But what does <WinBMD Output> mean? Shouldn't it be > > 'WinBMD/Output'? > > > > Barire > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: anne.cruise1@ntlworld.com [mailto:anne.cruise1@ntlworld.com] > > > Sent: 09 February 2009 20:42 > > > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > > > Cc: Archer Barrie > > > Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > > > > > > HI! > > > > > > Proof-reader hat on: > > > > > > "Many Vista users find it best to store their transcription > > > files in 'Documents' rather than in its default location of > > > 'Program Files/WinBMD/Output'. To do this, first create a new > > > folder in your 'Documents' called <WinBMD Output>. Then, in > > > WinBMD, use File/Define Save Path to specify that folder as > > > the location in 'Documents' to store your transcription files." > > > > > > (On the basis that one should give instructions in logical > > > order of operation...) > > > > > > -- > > > Anne > > > > > > ---- Archer Barrie <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote: > > > > Yikes, no! It is only the output path that should be under > > > Documents not > > > > WinBMD! > > > > > > > > "Many Vista users find advantages in storing their > > > transcription files > > > > in 'Documents' rather > > > > than in its default location of 'Program > > > Files/WinBMD/Output'. In WinBMD > > > > use File/Define Save Path to specify a location in > > > Documents to store > > > > your transcription files; a folder WinBMD/Output is suggested (these > > > > folders will have to be created prior to redefining the path)." > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, it appears that the dialogue box you get for > > > File/Define > > > > Save Path does not allow folder creation. Do we have to > > > explain how to > > > > create folders? > > > > > > > > The issue I have with adding this to advice to 3b is it > > > also applies to > > > > XP so perhaps it should be a separate TKB item referenced from 3b. > > > > > > > > Barrie > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > > > > > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > Jeff Coleman > > > > > Sent: 09 February 2009 11:32 > > > > > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > > > > > > > Might I suggest additional wording for > > > > > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#3b ? > > > > > > > > > > "Many Vista users find advantages in installing WinBMD in > > > > > 'Documents' rather > > > > > than 'Program Files'. If installed in 'Program Files' it can > > > > > be advantageous > > > > > to adjust 'Define Save Path' in the 'File' menu so that files > > > > > are saved > > > > > somewhere in 'Documents'." > > > > > > > > > > (possibly add 'that you will remember' after 'somewhere' > > > in the above) > > > > > > > > > > I feel it would also be advantageous to add something along > > > > > the same lines, > > > > > together with the other advice in TKB 3(b), to > > > > > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/addons/winbmd/ > > > > > > > > > > These do not explain the issue about Vista and its use of > > > > > 'Virtual Store' > > > > > but there is no need to go down that road if either WinBMD is > > > > > installed in, > > > > > or files created are stored in 'Documents'. > > > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > > > > > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:51 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > > > I find I have to send a sheet to new transcribers with the > > > > > absolutely > > > > > > essential information because the FreeBMD help pages > > > have too much > > > > > > information on them. So does my sheet! But by experience > > > > > I have learnt > > > > > > what has to put in more than once for emphasis. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is at that all the information on the > > > FreeBMD help pages > > > > > > needs to be there: but I find I have to be selective in > > > > > what I send to > > > > > > new transcribers. Once they are up and running the other > > > > > problems get > > > > > > dealt with one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christopher > > > > > > > > > > > > Allan Raymond wrote: > > > > > >> Christopher > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Just a thought, why should it be up to Coordinators to > > > tell new > > > > > >> transcribers > > > > > >> how to set up WinBMD. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Why not have this requirement as a standard instruction on > > > > > either the TKB > > > > > >> or > > > > > >> Beginners for Help pages? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Allan Raymond > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >> From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > > > > > >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:12 PM > > > > > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Having read of all the potential problems I think now it > > > > > is up to the > > > > > >> syndicate co-ordinators to tell new transcribers how set > > > > > up WinBMD so > > > > > >> that they save their files in a place where they can find them. > > > > > >> Any other solution seems to suffer from the problems of > > > > > having to find a > > > > > >> way to make sure it will work on Windows 98, XP or Vista - > > > > > which is just > > > > > >> added complication. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Christopher Richards > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Ian Brooke wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> I do tend to agree with most of these views. It seems to > > > > > me to be very > > > > > >>> simple for those users that have trouble locating their > > > > > files to create > > > > > >>> a > > > > > >>> new folder someplace they can find it, for example under > > > > > My Documents, > > > > > >>> or > > > > > >>> under Users on Vista, and just tell WinBMD to use that > > > > > folder. I can't > > > > > >>> really see anyone having serious problems doing that and > > > > > it saves a lot > > > > > >>> of > > > > > >>> potentially risky code for WinBMD to try to do it. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Ian > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >>> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> > > > > > >>> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> > > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:52 AM > > > > > >>> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> Archer Barrie wrote on Wed, 4 Feb 2009: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> I think you have a good point, although one shouldn't > > > > > assume that all > > > > > >>>>> existing users know where their output files are! Users > > > > > can transcribe > > > > > >>>>> without this knowledge, until the day when they need to > > > > > do something > > > > > >>>>> special with the file ... and then its location may be > > > > > problematic. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Thanks for the reply, Barrie, and yes, I see what > > > you mean. . . > > > > > >>>> although > > > > > >>>> it's easy enough to check, since a custom path will > > > be shown in > > > > > >>>> brackets > > > > > >>>> after Define Save Path in the File menu. If there's > > > > > nothing there, the > > > > > >>>> default path is being used (or the VirtualStore > > > under Vista). And > > > > > >>>> there's always Search :-) > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> I think the issue of moving files was sparked by Keith > > > > > Simpson's mail > > > > > >>>>> of > > > > > >>>>> 28th Jan in which he described instructions to change > > > > > the default path > > > > > >>>>> for transcribers who were having problems because > > > of the current > > > > > >>>>> location. I presume it was in response to this that > > > Ian made his > > > > > >>>>> proposal to move files in his mail later the same day. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> I see. . . I didn't get Keith's original post -- the > > > > > lists seem rather > > > > > >>>> flakey lately, I often receive responses to an original > > > > > message that > > > > > >>>> never arrives! Having read it now, I wholeheartedly > > > agree. I do > > > > > >>>> recommend new volunteers change the default Save > > > Path and suggest > > > > > >>>> creating a subfolder in (My) Documents. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I've posted previously on why I think the current > > > > > default output folder > > > > > >>>> location needs to be changed, and (sorry Allan!) agree > > > > > that a subfolder > > > > > >>>> of (My) Documents would be the best place for it -- easy > > > > > to find for > > > > > >>>> new > > > > > >>>> users, conforming to standard practice and solving the > > > > > permissions > > > > > >>>> problems under Vista. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> For fresh installs, either by new users or existing > > > volunteers > > > > > >>>> switching > > > > > >>>> to a new computer, I think this would be a great > > > > > improvement. But if > > > > > >>>> I've followed Ian correctly, there could be huge > > > > > difficulties with > > > > > >>>> existing WinBMD installations, in both determining the > > > > > current output > > > > > >>>> path and in where to put the new default folder. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> What I'm asking is, Is it really worth Ian's time > > > and effort to > > > > > >>>> struggle > > > > > >>>> to make this a global change when for a large proportion > > > > > of upgraders > > > > > >>>> it > > > > > >>>> wouldn't be necessary (and could also be quite annoying)? > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> The only reason I can see for moving files as a result > > > > > of an upgrade > > > > > >>>>> would be because WinBMD is in a better position to do > > > > > it than users > > > > > >>>>> (who > > > > > >>>>> may have difficulty finding them). Against this we have the > > > > > >>>>> complication > > > > > >>>>> of users, who *did* know where their files were, > > > > > forgetting (or not > > > > > >>>>> realising) they had been moved. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> It could well be that I misunderstood the discussion, > > > > > but it seemed to > > > > > >>>> be accepted that moving existing files was > > > desirable. I strongly > > > > > >>>> disagree on that one :-) and could see it causing more > > > > > problems than it > > > > > >>>> solved. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> Moving files to the same location shouldn't be a > > > > > problem. The software > > > > > >>>>> would notice and do nothing. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Ah, that's reassuring, thanks, Barrie. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > > > > > of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > > > of the message > > > > > >

HI! Proof-reader hat on: "Many Vista users find it best to store their transcription files in 'Documents' rather than in its default location of 'Program Files/WinBMD/Output'. To do this, first create a new folder in your 'Documents' called <WinBMD Output>. Then, in WinBMD, use File/Define Save Path to specify that folder as the location in 'Documents' to store your transcription files." (On the basis that one should give instructions in logical order of operation...) -- Anne ---- Archer Barrie <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote: > Yikes, no! It is only the output path that should be under Documents not > WinBMD! > > "Many Vista users find advantages in storing their transcription files > in 'Documents' rather > than in its default location of 'Program Files/WinBMD/Output'. In WinBMD > use File/Define Save Path to specify a location in Documents to store > your transcription files; a folder WinBMD/Output is suggested (these > folders will have to be created prior to redefining the path)." > > Unfortunately, it appears that the dialogue box you get for File/Define > Save Path does not allow folder creation. Do we have to explain how to > create folders? > > The issue I have with adding this to advice to 3b is it also applies to > XP so perhaps it should be a separate TKB item referenced from 3b. > > Barrie > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > > Jeff Coleman > > Sent: 09 February 2009 11:32 > > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > Might I suggest additional wording for > > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#3b ? > > > > "Many Vista users find advantages in installing WinBMD in > > 'Documents' rather > > than 'Program Files'. If installed in 'Program Files' it can > > be advantageous > > to adjust 'Define Save Path' in the 'File' menu so that files > > are saved > > somewhere in 'Documents'." > > > > (possibly add 'that you will remember' after 'somewhere' in the above) > > > > I feel it would also be advantageous to add something along > > the same lines, > > together with the other advice in TKB 3(b), to > > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/addons/winbmd/ > > > > These do not explain the issue about Vista and its use of > > 'Virtual Store' > > but there is no need to go down that road if either WinBMD is > > installed in, > > or files created are stored in 'Documents'. > > > > Jeff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > I find I have to send a sheet to new transcribers with the > > absolutely > > > essential information because the FreeBMD help pages have too much > > > information on them. So does my sheet! But by experience > > I have learnt > > > what has to put in more than once for emphasis. > > > > > > The problem is at that all the information on the FreeBMD help pages > > > needs to be there: but I find I have to be selective in > > what I send to > > > new transcribers. Once they are up and running the other > > problems get > > > dealt with one by one. > > > > > > Christopher > > > > > > Allan Raymond wrote: > > >> Christopher > > >> > > >> Just a thought, why should it be up to Coordinators to tell new > > >> transcribers > > >> how to set up WinBMD. > > >> > > >> Why not have this requirement as a standard instruction on > > either the TKB > > >> or > > >> Beginners for Help pages? > > >> > > >> Allan Raymond > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > > >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > > >> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:12 PM > > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > >> > > >> > > >> Having read of all the potential problems I think now it > > is up to the > > >> syndicate co-ordinators to tell new transcribers how set > > up WinBMD so > > >> that they save their files in a place where they can find them. > > >> Any other solution seems to suffer from the problems of > > having to find a > > >> way to make sure it will work on Windows 98, XP or Vista - > > which is just > > >> added complication. > > >> > > >> Christopher Richards > > >> > > >> Ian Brooke wrote: > > >> > > >>> I do tend to agree with most of these views. It seems to > > me to be very > > >>> simple for those users that have trouble locating their > > files to create > > >>> a > > >>> new folder someplace they can find it, for example under > > My Documents, > > >>> or > > >>> under Users on Vista, and just tell WinBMD to use that > > folder. I can't > > >>> really see anyone having serious problems doing that and > > it saves a lot > > >>> of > > >>> potentially risky code for WinBMD to try to do it. > > >>> > > >>> Ian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> > > >>> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:52 AM > > >>> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Archer Barrie wrote on Wed, 4 Feb 2009: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> I think you have a good point, although one shouldn't > > assume that all > > >>>>> existing users know where their output files are! Users > > can transcribe > > >>>>> without this knowledge, until the day when they need to > > do something > > >>>>> special with the file ... and then its location may be > > problematic. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> Thanks for the reply, Barrie, and yes, I see what you mean. . . > > >>>> although > > >>>> it's easy enough to check, since a custom path will be shown in > > >>>> brackets > > >>>> after Define Save Path in the File menu. If there's > > nothing there, the > > >>>> default path is being used (or the VirtualStore under Vista). And > > >>>> there's always Search :-) > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> I think the issue of moving files was sparked by Keith > > Simpson's mail > > >>>>> of > > >>>>> 28th Jan in which he described instructions to change > > the default path > > >>>>> for transcribers who were having problems because of the current > > >>>>> location. I presume it was in response to this that Ian made his > > >>>>> proposal to move files in his mail later the same day. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> I see. . . I didn't get Keith's original post -- the > > lists seem rather > > >>>> flakey lately, I often receive responses to an original > > message that > > >>>> never arrives! Having read it now, I wholeheartedly agree. I do > > >>>> recommend new volunteers change the default Save Path and suggest > > >>>> creating a subfolder in (My) Documents. > > >>>> > > >>>> I've posted previously on why I think the current > > default output folder > > >>>> location needs to be changed, and (sorry Allan!) agree > > that a subfolder > > >>>> of (My) Documents would be the best place for it -- easy > > to find for > > >>>> new > > >>>> users, conforming to standard practice and solving the > > permissions > > >>>> problems under Vista. > > >>>> > > >>>> For fresh installs, either by new users or existing volunteers > > >>>> switching > > >>>> to a new computer, I think this would be a great > > improvement. But if > > >>>> I've followed Ian correctly, there could be huge > > difficulties with > > >>>> existing WinBMD installations, in both determining the > > current output > > >>>> path and in where to put the new default folder. > > >>>> > > >>>> What I'm asking is, Is it really worth Ian's time and effort to > > >>>> struggle > > >>>> to make this a global change when for a large proportion > > of upgraders > > >>>> it > > >>>> wouldn't be necessary (and could also be quite annoying)? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> The only reason I can see for moving files as a result > > of an upgrade > > >>>>> would be because WinBMD is in a better position to do > > it than users > > >>>>> (who > > >>>>> may have difficulty finding them). Against this we have the > > >>>>> complication > > >>>>> of users, who *did* know where their files were, > > forgetting (or not > > >>>>> realising) they had been moved. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> It could well be that I misunderstood the discussion, > > but it seemed to > > >>>> be accepted that moving existing files was desirable. I strongly > > >>>> disagree on that one :-) and could see it causing more > > problems than it > > >>>> solved. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Moving files to the same location shouldn't be a > > problem. The software > > >>>>> would notice and do nothing. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> Ah, that's reassuring, thanks, Barrie. > > >>>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > > of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ian Brooke wrote on Sun, 8 Feb 2009: >Also to suggest a technical desireability to have >them below My Documents ignores all the other files which are located in the >WinBMD folder, such as the ini file, the district and names files etc, all >these are updated by WinBMD. If there is a technical need to have the output >files elsewhere then surely that also holds true of these other files and >yet I cannot think of a way to relocate the ini file (as the program needs >to locate it in order to know where it is located) and moving the others is >very difficult. I just installed WinBMD on a new Vista PC yesterday, and deliberately chose to let in install into Program Files to see what would happen. The .ini, district, supp_district and name2 files do indeed get copied and "aliased" to a folder under the user's VirtualStore. It's useful to be aware of this in case you want to back up your settings; the current working copies are the ones in the VirtualStore, *not* the ones in WinBMD's Files folder. Changing the Save Path works absolutely fine still, so I think what you suggest below is the best solution for everyone. >All I'm really trying to say is that maybe the technical advantages of >moving the output folder are not worth the technical difficulties of >doing it automatically. I think we should go with amending the >existing change folder routine to create the new folder, defaulting to >below My Documents, and copy the files for the user It's easy, almost >risk free to do and allows those users who want to leave it where it is >to do so. -- Nowl

I should perhaps mention that two volunteers who were experiencing "Run time error 429 etc" problems when installing WinBMD on Vista PC overcame their problem when I mentioned they should try installing WinBMD in its own created folder C;/WinBMD. Apparently they were using the default Program/WinBMD. I've always had WinBMD in its own folder C;/WinBMD but have just deleted WinBMD and reinstalled it in Program files and it works fine for me. So there is still a mystery why a handful of volunteers can't install WinBMD on their Vista PC. Allan Raymond ----- Original Message ----- From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List Yikes, no! It is only the output path that should be under Documents not WinBMD! "Many Vista users find advantages in storing their transcription files in 'Documents' rather than in its default location of 'Program Files/WinBMD/Output'. In WinBMD use File/Define Save Path to specify a location in Documents to store your transcription files; a folder WinBMD/Output is suggested (these folders will have to be created prior to redefining the path)." Unfortunately, it appears that the dialogue box you get for File/Define Save Path does not allow folder creation. Do we have to explain how to create folders? The issue I have with adding this to advice to 3b is it also applies to XP so perhaps it should be a separate TKB item referenced from 3b. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Coleman > Sent: 09 February 2009 11:32 > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > Might I suggest additional wording for > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#3b ? > > "Many Vista users find advantages in installing WinBMD in > 'Documents' rather > than 'Program Files'. If installed in 'Program Files' it can > be advantageous > to adjust 'Define Save Path' in the 'File' menu so that files > are saved > somewhere in 'Documents'." > > (possibly add 'that you will remember' after 'somewhere' in the above) > > I feel it would also be advantageous to add something along > the same lines, > together with the other advice in TKB 3(b), to > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/addons/winbmd/ > > These do not explain the issue about Vista and its use of > 'Virtual Store' > but there is no need to go down that road if either WinBMD is > installed in, > or files created are stored in 'Documents'. > > Jeff >

Yikes, no! It is only the output path that should be under Documents not WinBMD! "Many Vista users find advantages in storing their transcription files in 'Documents' rather than in its default location of 'Program Files/WinBMD/Output'. In WinBMD use File/Define Save Path to specify a location in Documents to store your transcription files; a folder WinBMD/Output is suggested (these folders will have to be created prior to redefining the path)." Unfortunately, it appears that the dialogue box you get for File/Define Save Path does not allow folder creation. Do we have to explain how to create folders? The issue I have with adding this to advice to 3b is it also applies to XP so perhaps it should be a separate TKB item referenced from 3b. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Jeff Coleman > Sent: 09 February 2009 11:32 > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > Might I suggest additional wording for > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#3b ? > > "Many Vista users find advantages in installing WinBMD in > 'Documents' rather > than 'Program Files'. If installed in 'Program Files' it can > be advantageous > to adjust 'Define Save Path' in the 'File' menu so that files > are saved > somewhere in 'Documents'." > > (possibly add 'that you will remember' after 'somewhere' in the above) > > I feel it would also be advantageous to add something along > the same lines, > together with the other advice in TKB 3(b), to > http://www.freebmd.org.uk/addons/winbmd/ > > These do not explain the issue about Vista and its use of > 'Virtual Store' > but there is no need to go down that road if either WinBMD is > installed in, > or files created are stored in 'Documents'. > > Jeff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > > Raymond > > > > I find I have to send a sheet to new transcribers with the > absolutely > > essential information because the FreeBMD help pages have too much > > information on them. So does my sheet! But by experience > I have learnt > > what has to put in more than once for emphasis. > > > > The problem is at that all the information on the FreeBMD help pages > > needs to be there: but I find I have to be selective in > what I send to > > new transcribers. Once they are up and running the other > problems get > > dealt with one by one. > > > > Christopher > > > > Allan Raymond wrote: > >> Christopher > >> > >> Just a thought, why should it be up to Coordinators to tell new > >> transcribers > >> how to set up WinBMD. > >> > >> Why not have this requirement as a standard instruction on > either the TKB > >> or > >> Beginners for Help pages? > >> > >> Allan Raymond > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:12 PM > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> > >> Having read of all the potential problems I think now it > is up to the > >> syndicate co-ordinators to tell new transcribers how set > up WinBMD so > >> that they save their files in a place where they can find them. > >> Any other solution seems to suffer from the problems of > having to find a > >> way to make sure it will work on Windows 98, XP or Vista - > which is just > >> added complication. > >> > >> Christopher Richards > >> > >> Ian Brooke wrote: > >> > >>> I do tend to agree with most of these views. It seems to > me to be very > >>> simple for those users that have trouble locating their > files to create > >>> a > >>> new folder someplace they can find it, for example under > My Documents, > >>> or > >>> under Users on Vista, and just tell WinBMD to use that > folder. I can't > >>> really see anyone having serious problems doing that and > it saves a lot > >>> of > >>> potentially risky code for WinBMD to try to do it. > >>> > >>> Ian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> > >>> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:52 AM > >>> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Archer Barrie wrote on Wed, 4 Feb 2009: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I think you have a good point, although one shouldn't > assume that all > >>>>> existing users know where their output files are! Users > can transcribe > >>>>> without this knowledge, until the day when they need to > do something > >>>>> special with the file ... and then its location may be > problematic. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Thanks for the reply, Barrie, and yes, I see what you mean. . . > >>>> although > >>>> it's easy enough to check, since a custom path will be shown in > >>>> brackets > >>>> after Define Save Path in the File menu. If there's > nothing there, the > >>>> default path is being used (or the VirtualStore under Vista). And > >>>> there's always Search :-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I think the issue of moving files was sparked by Keith > Simpson's mail > >>>>> of > >>>>> 28th Jan in which he described instructions to change > the default path > >>>>> for transcribers who were having problems because of the current > >>>>> location. I presume it was in response to this that Ian made his > >>>>> proposal to move files in his mail later the same day. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> I see. . . I didn't get Keith's original post -- the > lists seem rather > >>>> flakey lately, I often receive responses to an original > message that > >>>> never arrives! Having read it now, I wholeheartedly agree. I do > >>>> recommend new volunteers change the default Save Path and suggest > >>>> creating a subfolder in (My) Documents. > >>>> > >>>> I've posted previously on why I think the current > default output folder > >>>> location needs to be changed, and (sorry Allan!) agree > that a subfolder > >>>> of (My) Documents would be the best place for it -- easy > to find for > >>>> new > >>>> users, conforming to standard practice and solving the > permissions > >>>> problems under Vista. > >>>> > >>>> For fresh installs, either by new users or existing volunteers > >>>> switching > >>>> to a new computer, I think this would be a great > improvement. But if > >>>> I've followed Ian correctly, there could be huge > difficulties with > >>>> existing WinBMD installations, in both determining the > current output > >>>> path and in where to put the new default folder. > >>>> > >>>> What I'm asking is, Is it really worth Ian's time and effort to > >>>> struggle > >>>> to make this a global change when for a large proportion > of upgraders > >>>> it > >>>> wouldn't be necessary (and could also be quite annoying)? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> The only reason I can see for moving files as a result > of an upgrade > >>>>> would be because WinBMD is in a better position to do > it than users > >>>>> (who > >>>>> may have difficulty finding them). Against this we have the > >>>>> complication > >>>>> of users, who *did* know where their files were, > forgetting (or not > >>>>> realising) they had been moved. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> It could well be that I misunderstood the discussion, > but it seemed to > >>>> be accepted that moving existing files was desirable. I strongly > >>>> disagree on that one :-) and could see it causing more > problems than it > >>>> solved. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Moving files to the same location shouldn't be a > problem. The software > >>>>> would notice and do nothing. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Ah, that's reassuring, thanks, Barrie. > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >

Might I suggest additional wording for http://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#3b ? "Many Vista users find advantages in installing WinBMD in 'Documents' rather than 'Program Files'. If installed in 'Program Files' it can be advantageous to adjust 'Define Save Path' in the 'File' menu so that files are saved somewhere in 'Documents'." (possibly add 'that you will remember' after 'somewhere' in the above) I feel it would also be advantageous to add something along the same lines, together with the other advice in TKB 3(b), to http://www.freebmd.org.uk/addons/winbmd/ These do not explain the issue about Vista and its use of 'Virtual Store' but there is no need to go down that road if either WinBMD is installed in, or files created are stored in 'Documents'. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > Raymond > > I find I have to send a sheet to new transcribers with the absolutely > essential information because the FreeBMD help pages have too much > information on them. So does my sheet! But by experience I have learnt > what has to put in more than once for emphasis. > > The problem is at that all the information on the FreeBMD help pages > needs to be there: but I find I have to be selective in what I send to > new transcribers. Once they are up and running the other problems get > dealt with one by one. > > Christopher > > Allan Raymond wrote: >> Christopher >> >> Just a thought, why should it be up to Coordinators to tell new >> transcribers >> how to set up WinBMD. >> >> Why not have this requirement as a standard instruction on either the TKB >> or >> Beginners for Help pages? >> >> Allan Raymond >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> >> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:12 PM >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> Having read of all the potential problems I think now it is up to the >> syndicate co-ordinators to tell new transcribers how set up WinBMD so >> that they save their files in a place where they can find them. >> Any other solution seems to suffer from the problems of having to find a >> way to make sure it will work on Windows 98, XP or Vista - which is just >> added complication. >> >> Christopher Richards >> >> Ian Brooke wrote: >> >>> I do tend to agree with most of these views. It seems to me to be very >>> simple for those users that have trouble locating their files to create >>> a >>> new folder someplace they can find it, for example under My Documents, >>> or >>> under Users on Vista, and just tell WinBMD to use that folder. I can't >>> really see anyone having serious problems doing that and it saves a lot >>> of >>> potentially risky code for WinBMD to try to do it. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> >>> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:52 AM >>> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Archer Barrie wrote on Wed, 4 Feb 2009: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think you have a good point, although one shouldn't assume that all >>>>> existing users know where their output files are! Users can transcribe >>>>> without this knowledge, until the day when they need to do something >>>>> special with the file ... and then its location may be problematic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Thanks for the reply, Barrie, and yes, I see what you mean. . . >>>> although >>>> it's easy enough to check, since a custom path will be shown in >>>> brackets >>>> after Define Save Path in the File menu. If there's nothing there, the >>>> default path is being used (or the VirtualStore under Vista). And >>>> there's always Search :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think the issue of moving files was sparked by Keith Simpson's mail >>>>> of >>>>> 28th Jan in which he described instructions to change the default path >>>>> for transcribers who were having problems because of the current >>>>> location. I presume it was in response to this that Ian made his >>>>> proposal to move files in his mail later the same day. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I see. . . I didn't get Keith's original post -- the lists seem rather >>>> flakey lately, I often receive responses to an original message that >>>> never arrives! Having read it now, I wholeheartedly agree. I do >>>> recommend new volunteers change the default Save Path and suggest >>>> creating a subfolder in (My) Documents. >>>> >>>> I've posted previously on why I think the current default output folder >>>> location needs to be changed, and (sorry Allan!) agree that a subfolder >>>> of (My) Documents would be the best place for it -- easy to find for >>>> new >>>> users, conforming to standard practice and solving the permissions >>>> problems under Vista. >>>> >>>> For fresh installs, either by new users or existing volunteers >>>> switching >>>> to a new computer, I think this would be a great improvement. But if >>>> I've followed Ian correctly, there could be huge difficulties with >>>> existing WinBMD installations, in both determining the current output >>>> path and in where to put the new default folder. >>>> >>>> What I'm asking is, Is it really worth Ian's time and effort to >>>> struggle >>>> to make this a global change when for a large proportion of upgraders >>>> it >>>> wouldn't be necessary (and could also be quite annoying)? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> The only reason I can see for moving files as a result of an upgrade >>>>> would be because WinBMD is in a better position to do it than users >>>>> (who >>>>> may have difficulty finding them). Against this we have the >>>>> complication >>>>> of users, who *did* know where their files were, forgetting (or not >>>>> realising) they had been moved. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It could well be that I misunderstood the discussion, but it seemed to >>>> be accepted that moving existing files was desirable. I strongly >>>> disagree on that one :-) and could see it causing more problems than it >>>> solved. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Moving files to the same location shouldn't be a problem. The software >>>>> would notice and do nothing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Ah, that's reassuring, thanks, Barrie. >>>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Raymond I find I have to send a sheet to new transcribers with the absolutely essential information because the FreeBMD help pages have too much information on them. So does my sheet! But by experience I have learnt what has to put in more than once for emphasis. The problem is at that all the information on the FreeBMD help pages needs to be there: but I find I have to be selective in what I send to new transcribers. Once they are up and running the other problems get dealt with one by one. Christopher Allan Raymond wrote: > Christopher > > Just a thought, why should it be up to Coordinators to tell new transcribers > how to set up WinBMD. > > Why not have this requirement as a standard instruction on either the TKB or > Beginners for Help pages? > > Allan Raymond > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:12 PM > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > Having read of all the potential problems I think now it is up to the > syndicate co-ordinators to tell new transcribers how set up WinBMD so > that they save their files in a place where they can find them. > Any other solution seems to suffer from the problems of having to find a > way to make sure it will work on Windows 98, XP or Vista - which is just > added complication. > > Christopher Richards > > Ian Brooke wrote: > >> I do tend to agree with most of these views. It seems to me to be very >> simple for those users that have trouble locating their files to create a >> new folder someplace they can find it, for example under My Documents, or >> under Users on Vista, and just tell WinBMD to use that folder. I can't >> really see anyone having serious problems doing that and it saves a lot of >> potentially risky code for WinBMD to try to do it. >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> >> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:52 AM >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List >> >> >> >> >>> Archer Barrie wrote on Wed, 4 Feb 2009: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I think you have a good point, although one shouldn't assume that all >>>> existing users know where their output files are! Users can transcribe >>>> without this knowledge, until the day when they need to do something >>>> special with the file ... and then its location may be problematic. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Thanks for the reply, Barrie, and yes, I see what you mean. . . although >>> it's easy enough to check, since a custom path will be shown in brackets >>> after Define Save Path in the File menu. If there's nothing there, the >>> default path is being used (or the VirtualStore under Vista). And >>> there's always Search :-) >>> >>> >>> >>>> I think the issue of moving files was sparked by Keith Simpson's mail of >>>> 28th Jan in which he described instructions to change the default path >>>> for transcribers who were having problems because of the current >>>> location. I presume it was in response to this that Ian made his >>>> proposal to move files in his mail later the same day. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I see. . . I didn't get Keith's original post -- the lists seem rather >>> flakey lately, I often receive responses to an original message that >>> never arrives! Having read it now, I wholeheartedly agree. I do >>> recommend new volunteers change the default Save Path and suggest >>> creating a subfolder in (My) Documents. >>> >>> I've posted previously on why I think the current default output folder >>> location needs to be changed, and (sorry Allan!) agree that a subfolder >>> of (My) Documents would be the best place for it -- easy to find for new >>> users, conforming to standard practice and solving the permissions >>> problems under Vista. >>> >>> For fresh installs, either by new users or existing volunteers switching >>> to a new computer, I think this would be a great improvement. But if >>> I've followed Ian correctly, there could be huge difficulties with >>> existing WinBMD installations, in both determining the current output >>> path and in where to put the new default folder. >>> >>> What I'm asking is, Is it really worth Ian's time and effort to struggle >>> to make this a global change when for a large proportion of upgraders it >>> wouldn't be necessary (and could also be quite annoying)? >>> >>> >>> >>>> The only reason I can see for moving files as a result of an upgrade >>>> would be because WinBMD is in a better position to do it than users (who >>>> may have difficulty finding them). Against this we have the complication >>>> of users, who *did* know where their files were, forgetting (or not >>>> realising) they had been moved. >>>> >>>> >>> It could well be that I misunderstood the discussion, but it seemed to >>> be accepted that moving existing files was desirable. I strongly >>> disagree on that one :-) and could see it causing more problems than it >>> solved. >>> >>> >>>> Moving files to the same location shouldn't be a problem. The software >>>> would notice and do nothing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Ah, that's reassuring, thanks, Barrie. >>> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Ian, I am actually suggesting less change! I think the ONLY change that needs to be made is for the default output folder to be under (My )Documents for new installs only. By the "change folder routine" do you mean File/Define Save Path? If so I really don't think it should move files. It isn't what it does at the moment and it is not what the name suggests. If you want to do it I suggest it should be a new menu item, File/Relocate Output (or some such). Yes, technically all files that may change from user to user should be under (My )Documents. You would find the path to the .ini file from the Registry (HKCU) (or move the .ini data into the Registry). Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Ian Brooke > Sent: 08 February 2009 22:07 > To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > Although I would agree with what you say about it being > desireable, I'm > really unsure that moving output files below My Documents or > wherever really > achieves anything other than some users being able to locate > their files, > and for many their current location below WinBMD is easy to > find and doesn't > really affect anything. Also to suggest a technical > desireability to have > them below My Documents ignores all the other files which are > located in the > WinBMD folder, such as the ini file, the district and names > files etc, all > these are updated by WinBMD. If there is a technical need to > have the output > files elsewhere then surely that also holds true of these > other files and > yet I cannot think of a way to relocate the ini file (as the > program needs > to locate it in order to know where it is located) and moving > the others is > very difficult. > > All I'm really trying to say is that maybe the technical > advantages of > moving the output folder are not worth the technical > difficulties of doing > it automatically. I think we should go with amending the > existing change > folder routine to create the new folder, defaulting to below > My Documents, > and copy the files for the user It's easy, almost risk free > to do and > allows those users who want to leave it where it is to do so. > > Ian > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Archer Barrie" <Barrie.Archer@uk.fujitsu.com> > To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:35 AM > Subject: RE: re Windows Wish List > > > >I am sorry Allan, but the output folder for should NOT be a > subfolder of > > WinBMD. It is like that for historical reasons but for the latest > > versions of Windows (say from XP onwards) it is a > deprecated location. > > If users need to move their output folder it should be under (My > > )Documents which is where almost every other piece of > software puts its > > output. This is why users would find it easier to find the files. > > > > There are many reasons for using (My )Documents, some quite > technical, > > but a simple one is that it works for PCs with multiple > users. If users, > > for example yourself, wish to have the output files > elsewhere that is > > fine, but the default, and what we recommend, must be under (My > > )Documents. > > > > Barrie > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> [mailto:freebmd-syndicates-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > >> Allan Raymond > >> Sent: 04 February 2009 14:06 > >> To: freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> I'm also at a complete loss regarding all this discussion. > >> > >> If volunteers are unable to find the default Output folder > >> location for > >> WinBMD produced files which I happen to maintain should be in > >> a subfolder of > >> the WinBMD what chance have they got of understanding the > >> proposed new > >> WinBMD requirements. > >> > >> We seem to be creating a rod for our back, this discussion > >> started because > >> of a suggested requirement to assist volunteers in being able > >> to locate > >> their files to send to their Co-ordinators. > >> > >> If it was recommended that all files produced by WinBMD were > >> to be held in > >> the default subfolder on WinBMD aptly called Output folder > >> this problem > >> should resolve itself without all these changes to WinBMD. > >> > >> I keep saying I have WinBMD to work on Vista and have no > >> trouble finding > >> where the WinBMD files are held C:/WinBMD/Output. > >> > >> I believe I have found a solution to the problem why some > >> volunteers can't > >> get WinBMD on Vista and fingers crossed I have managed to get > >> two long > >> suffering Vista volunteers to get WinBMD to work following > my simple > >> suggestion of C:/WinBMD/Output. > >> > >> Allan Raymond > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> > >> To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:17 PM > >> Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > >> > >> > >> Excuse me butting in. . . I've been following the exchanges > >> between Ian > >> and Barrie with great interest, as I do feel the current > default Save > >> Path causes some problems. But I'm not following why we > would want to > >> move users' existing files at all. > >> > >> I thought the idea was to define a new default location that > >> was easier > >> to find for new users and "better" from a programmers' > point of view, > >> particularly with Vista. But shouldn't it apply only to new > >> users/fresh > >> installs, rather than upgrades? People who are already > happily using > >> WinBMD surely already know where to find their files and/or > >> have defined > >> a custom Save Path and don't want it changed. > >> > >> Much of Ian and Barrie's discussion seems to be about the > >> difficulty of > >> discovering the path to a user's current output folder and > >> the mechanism > >> of moving it. Couldn't all this be avoided if the installer > >> checked for > >> an existing WinBMD, and if it found one, left the current > settings in > >> place? > >> > >> I'm also wondering whether the installation would fail if, > when asked > >> where they want their files moved, users chose their > existing output > >> folder, since files can't be "moved" to the same place? > Would they be > >> forced to choose another path and then switch back? > >> > >> I'm not a programmer, so may well be missing the point here > >> and am happy > >> to be corrected :-) > >> > >> -- > >> Nowl > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > >> of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > FREEBMD-SYNDICATES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >

Christopher Just a thought, why should it be up to Coordinators to tell new transcribers how to set up WinBMD. Why not have this requirement as a standard instruction on either the TKB or Beginners for Help pages? Allan Raymond ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Richards" <cmr1chards@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <freebmd-syndicates@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List Having read of all the potential problems I think now it is up to the syndicate co-ordinators to tell new transcribers how set up WinBMD so that they save their files in a place where they can find them. Any other solution seems to suffer from the problems of having to find a way to make sure it will work on Windows 98, XP or Vista - which is just added complication. Christopher Richards Ian Brooke wrote: > I do tend to agree with most of these views. It seems to me to be very > simple for those users that have trouble locating their files to create a > new folder someplace they can find it, for example under My Documents, or > under Users on Vista, and just tell WinBMD to use that folder. I can't > really see anyone having serious problems doing that and it saves a lot of > potentially risky code for WinBMD to try to do it. > > Ian > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nowl" <owl.news@zen.co.uk> > To: <FreeBMD-Syndicates@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: re Windows Wish List > > > >> Archer Barrie wrote on Wed, 4 Feb 2009: >> >> >>> I think you have a good point, although one shouldn't assume that all >>> existing users know where their output files are! Users can transcribe >>> without this knowledge, until the day when they need to do something >>> special with the file ... and then its location may be problematic. >>> >>> >> Thanks for the reply, Barrie, and yes, I see what you mean. . . although >> it's easy enough to check, since a custom path will be shown in brackets >> after Define Save Path in the File menu. If there's nothing there, the >> default path is being used (or the VirtualStore under Vista). And >> there's always Search :-) >> >> >>> I think the issue of moving files was sparked by Keith Simpson's mail of >>> 28th Jan in which he described instructions to change the default path >>> for transcribers who were having problems because of the current >>> location. I presume it was in response to this that Ian made his >>> proposal to move files in his mail later the same day. >>> >>> >> I see. . . I didn't get Keith's original post -- the lists seem rather >> flakey lately, I often receive responses to an original message that >> never arrives! Having read it now, I wholeheartedly agree. I do >> recommend new volunteers change the default Save Path and suggest >> creating a subfolder in (My) Documents. >> >> I've posted previously on why I think the current default output folder >> location needs to be changed, and (sorry Allan!) agree that a subfolder >> of (My) Documents would be the best place for it -- easy to find for new >> users, conforming to standard practice and solving the permissions >> problems under Vista. >> >> For fresh installs, either by new users or existing volunteers switching >> to a new computer, I think this would be a great improvement. But if >> I've followed Ian correctly, there could be huge difficulties with >> existing WinBMD installations, in both determining the current output >> path and in where to put the new default folder. >> >> What I'm asking is, Is it really worth Ian's time and effort to struggle >> to make this a global change when for a large proportion of upgraders it >> wouldn't be necessary (and could also be quite annoying)? >> >> >>> The only reason I can see for moving files as a result of an upgrade >>> would be because WinBMD is in a better position to do it than users (who >>> may have difficulty finding them). Against this we have the complication >>> of users, who *did* know where their files were, forgetting (or not >>> realising) they had been moved. >>> >> It could well be that I misunderstood the discussion, but it seemed to >> be accepted that moving existing files was desirable. I strongly >> disagree on that one :-) and could see it causing more problems than it >> solved. >> >>> Moving files to the same location shouldn't be a problem. The software >>> would notice and do nothing. >>> >>> >> Ah, that's reassuring, thanks, Barrie.