Hi, Kiwiz Syndicate wrote: > > | Dave Mayall said: > | > > 1) There are cases where there is quite distinctly a period following a > forename, > | > > separate from and different to the row of dots that follow. > | > > 2) The use of such a period would appear to be against some but not all records > | > > on a page > | > > 3) we can conclude that either it means something or is poor typesetting > | > > > | > > We know that a period following a single letter means that the letter is a > | > > contraction of a name to an initial, so I propose a hypothesis that a period > | > > following a forename MAY indicate that there are further forenames not indexed > snip > > I don't know which page Dave is on about but I have checked out a number of typed > pages here; > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/GUS/1868/Marriages/March/DB-01 > 1868M1-0007.tif > 1868M1-0008.tif > 1868M1-0009.tif > > The fullstop/period denotes the end of something not the opposite. My dictionary says > 'Complete cessation'. IMHO the period signifies the end of the forenames, NOT the > possible continuance of. Notice they use a comma after a surname MEANING more > follows. Surely the full stop after Mr. Mrs. St. etc shows it as being a method for indicating a shortened form of the word. It can also be a full stop at the end of a sentence of an expression meaning the end. In this case, the discussion is whether it is being used to indicate that the data immediately preceding it has been shortened in some way. Neither you nor I are able to say for sure that they are not shortened. But we can say that, if the period is indicating that something was shortened, then not transcribing it loses that information from the index. The deision we have to take is whether it can carry informtion or not and we believe it can. > - Contrary to 2) above: There is a period at the end of EVERY Forename on each page > above and if it's not there it's been obliterated. That is a very small subset of pages in the index and you are surely not asking us to extrapolate from 3 scan images to apply it to the rest of the 100 million records ? > - If there are two forenames the period is only entered after the second name. > - Some names have three F'names ie Mary Ann B., the period is at the end (this period > must be entered as it's an abbrev.). Surely this is the whole crux. We are saying that you cannot be sure that the others are not abbreviations as well. I am sure that for certain periods of time the indexes contain a consistent way of indicating abbreviations, but that is unlikely to be consistent across the 60 years and the set of data. > - I tried to find a 4+ F'name example but could not. But I assume they would write it > Mary Ann B C. Maybe someone could give us an example of a name longer than 3 F'names. I think there have been some recently on the admins list. > | Dave Mayall said > | > Now, if my hypothesis is bunkum...snip > > It's worse than bunkum, I think it's a load of hot smelly air to be honest, Dave!. > And we're all downwind :-). no comment. > Logic/common sense has to prevail here at sometime, I'm sure. Yes, but common sense can differ from person to person and someone has to take a decision. Our deiciosn is based on the whole project and what we are trying to achieve. > THE PERIOD is there to say THE END...... and is NOT 'potentially valuable data'. > What say you?. I say a full stop is used frequently to indicate an abbreviation and may be being used in that way in some of these records. Cheers Graham > > Garry > KIWIZ Syndicate Co-ordinator > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237

Surely the GRO could provide the definitive answer to this question? They must hold the records of the instructions issued to their transcribers as to the format they should use when compiling the indexes, where to place full stops, commas etc. and the reasons for doing so. Would it not be worthwhile contacting them? David Gray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hart" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: Re: Dave: Period means the END !! > Hi, > > Kiwiz Syndicate wrote: > > > > | Dave Mayall said: > > | > > 1) There are cases where there is quite distinctly a period following a > > forename, > > | > > separate from and different to the row of dots that follow. > > | > > 2) The use of such a period would appear to be against some but not all records > > | > > on a page > > | > > 3) we can conclude that either it means something or is poor typesetting > > | > > > > | > > We know that a period following a single letter means that the letter is a > > | > > contraction of a name to an initial, so I propose a hypothesis that a period > > | > > following a forename MAY indicate that there are further forenames not indexed > > snip > > > > I don't know which page Dave is on about but I have checked out a number of typed > > pages here; > > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/GUS/1868/Marriages/March/DB-01 > > 1868M1-0007.tif > > 1868M1-0008.tif > > 1868M1-0009.tif > > > > The fullstop/period denotes the end of something not the opposite. My dictionary says > > 'Complete cessation'. IMHO the period signifies the end of the forenames, NOT the > > possible continuance of. Notice they use a comma after a surname MEANING more > > follows. > > > Surely the full stop after Mr. Mrs. St. etc shows it as being a method > for indicating a shortened form of the word. It can also be a full stop > at the end of a sentence of an expression meaning the end. In this case, > the discussion is whether it is being used to indicate that the data > immediately preceding it has been shortened in some way. > > Neither you nor I are able to say for sure that they are not shortened. > But we can say that, if the period is indicating that something was > shortened, then not transcribing it loses that information from the > index. The deision we have to take is whether it can carry informtion or > not and we believe it can. > > > - Contrary to 2) above: There is a period at the end of EVERY Forename on each page > > above and if it's not there it's been obliterated. > > That is a very small subset of pages in the index and you are surely not > asking us to extrapolate from 3 scan images to apply it to the rest of > the 100 million records ? > > > - If there are two forenames the period is only entered after the second name. > > - Some names have three F'names ie Mary Ann B., the period is at the end (this period > > must be entered as it's an abbrev.). > > Surely this is the whole crux. We are saying that you cannot be sure > that the others are not abbreviations as well. I am sure that for > certain periods of time the indexes contain a consistent way of > indicating abbreviations, but that is unlikely to be consistent across > the 60 years and the set of data. > > > - I tried to find a 4+ F'name example but could not. But I assume they would write it > > Mary Ann B C. Maybe someone could give us an example of a name longer than 3 F'names. > > I think there have been some recently on the admins list. > > > | Dave Mayall said > > | > Now, if my hypothesis is bunkum...snip > > > > It's worse than bunkum, I think it's a load of hot smelly air to be honest, Dave!. > > And we're all downwind :-). > no comment. > > > > Logic/common sense has to prevail here at sometime, I'm sure. > > Yes, but common sense can differ from person to person and someone has > to take a decision. Our deiciosn is based on the whole project and what > we are trying to achieve. > > > THE PERIOD is there to say THE END...... and is NOT 'potentially valuable data'. > > > What say you?. > > I say a full stop is used frequently to indicate an abbreviation and may > be being used in that way in some of these records. > > Cheers > > Graham > > > > > Garry > > KIWIZ Syndicate Co-ordinator > > > > ============================== > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > >

I emailed them yesterday!!!! Sue E Sussex, UK My Family Tree Website is at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sadovaston ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gray" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Dave: Period means the END !! > Surely the GRO could provide the definitive answer to this question? They > must hold the records of the instructions issued to their transcribers as > to the format they should use when compiling the indexes, where to place > full stops, commas etc. and the reasons for doing so. > > Would it not be worthwhile contacting them? > > David Gray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Hart" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: Dave: Period means the END !! > > > > Hi, > > > > Kiwiz Syndicate wrote: > > > > > > | Dave Mayall said: > > > | > > 1) There are cases where there is quite distinctly a period > following a > > > forename, > > > | > > separate from and different to the row of dots that follow. > > > | > > 2) The use of such a period would appear to be against some but > not all records > > > | > > on a page > > > | > > 3) we can conclude that either it means something or is poor > typesetting > > > | > > > > > | > > We know that a period following a single letter means that the > letter is a > > > | > > contraction of a name to an initial, so I propose a hypothesis > that a period > > > | > > following a forename MAY indicate that there are further forenames > not indexed > > > snip > > > > > > I don't know which page Dave is on about but I have checked out a number > of typed > > > pages here; > > > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/GUS/1868/Marriages/March/DB-01 > > > 1868M1-0007.tif > > > 1868M1-0008.tif > > > 1868M1-0009.tif > > > > > > The fullstop/period denotes the end of something not the opposite. My > dictionary says > > > 'Complete cessation'. IMHO the period signifies the end of the > forenames, NOT the > > > possible continuance of. Notice they use a comma after a surname > MEANING more > > > follows. > > > > > > Surely the full stop after Mr. Mrs. St. etc shows it as being a method > > for indicating a shortened form of the word. It can also be a full stop > > at the end of a sentence of an expression meaning the end. In this case, > > the discussion is whether it is being used to indicate that the data > > immediately preceding it has been shortened in some way. > > > > Neither you nor I are able to say for sure that they are not shortened. > > But we can say that, if the period is indicating that something was > > shortened, then not transcribing it loses that information from the > > index. The deision we have to take is whether it can carry informtion or > > not and we believe it can. > > > > > - Contrary to 2) above: There is a period at the end of EVERY Forename > on each page > > > above and if it's not there it's been obliterated. > > > > That is a very small subset of pages in the index and you are surely not > > asking us to extrapolate from 3 scan images to apply it to the rest of > > the 100 million records ? > > > > > - If there are two forenames the period is only entered after the second > name. > > > - Some names have three F'names ie Mary Ann B., the period is at the end > (this period > > > must be entered as it's an abbrev.). > > > > Surely this is the whole crux. We are saying that you cannot be sure > > that the others are not abbreviations as well. I am sure that for > > certain periods of time the indexes contain a consistent way of > > indicating abbreviations, but that is unlikely to be consistent across > > the 60 years and the set of data. > > > > > - I tried to find a 4+ F'name example but could not. But I assume they > would write it > > > Mary Ann B C. Maybe someone could give us an example of a name longer > than 3 F'names. > > > > I think there have been some recently on the admins list. > > > > > | Dave Mayall said > > > | > Now, if my hypothesis is bunkum...snip > > > > > > It's worse than bunkum, I think it's a load of hot smelly air to be > honest, Dave!. > > > And we're all downwind :-). > > no comment. > > > > > > > Logic/common sense has to prevail here at sometime, I'm sure. > > > > Yes, but common sense can differ from person to person and someone has > > to take a decision. Our deiciosn is based on the whole project and what > > we are trying to achieve. > > > > > THE PERIOD is there to say THE END...... and is NOT 'potentially > valuable data'. > > > > > What say you?. > > > > I say a full stop is used frequently to indicate an abbreviation and may > > be being used in that way in some of these records. > > > > Cheers > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > Garry > > > KIWIZ Syndicate Co-ordinator > > > > > > ============================== > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > > > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ============================== > > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > >