Once the issue of Districts is cleared up, it'll be good. The Ancestry search engine is soooo much faster that FreeBMD's, and it doesn't seem limited by "complexity". For instance I could search across all Districts and all Years for forenames containing "Hattam", whereas on FreeBMD I have to narrow it down to registration districts (and there are many of these). It also automatically does substring searches, and not exact matches. It's not worried by periods "." either ... It's also interesting to type in what look to be typo's and see what comes back. Try "Jmaes" or "Jamse" for instance. One other consideration though is that the number of records they quote appears to be the total number of entries, with no double keying consideration. This could be good or bad depending on your viewpoint, but at least it works fast. Mark Hattam

me from this discussion list. Thank you --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.282 / Virus Database: 150 - Release Date: 25/09/2001

This is an important problem that desperately needs to get fixed. I have just been charged £4.50 by the ONS to tell me that the original index does not match the details on the marriage certificate. I know that I have the brides name exactly correct, and the reference number exactly correct, even the surname of the groom is correct, but the ONS won't issue the cert. because the grooms first name is different on the certificate - what will they be like with incorrect districts! Sheelagh ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Parker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: RE: Ancestry > > > > Mervyn Wright wrote..... > > > I have checked the site personally and have had 'Ware, Hertfordshire' > returned as 'Wareham, Hertfordshire'. From previous messages this appears to > be quite a regular occurence. > > I also found the following:- > ***Rochford Essex is listed as Rochford, Lancashire. > > Hope this is corrected very soon! > Many users will be applying for Certs. using VERY incorrect information! > > John Parker > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release Date: 09/10/01 > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > >

Mervyn Wright wrote..... I have checked the site personally and have had 'Ware, Hertfordshire' returned as 'Wareham, Hertfordshire'. From previous messages this appears to be quite a regular occurence. I also found the following:- ***Rochford Essex is listed as Rochford, Lancashire. Hope this is corrected very soon! Many users will be applying for Certs. using VERY incorrect information! John Parker --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.286 / Virus Database: 152 - Release Date: 09/10/01

Hi all, A simple question, 1845B4-S-Z-0001 consists of an image of the letter S, nothing else on the page, what action should I take regarding uploading this page? Tony M

heelagh Hawkins wrote:- Please can every one stop slagging off Ancestry! It has been requested that you move any discussion to the discuss list, and I for one am now getting a little fed up with it all. Both Dave and Graham have assured us that it is all above board, and the whole management team has also issued a statement confirming this. I trust this team impeccably having worked with them for a long time, so I accept what they and trust that they will keep an eye on the situation. Now can we all get back to transcribing please. Sheelagh ----- Whilst I fully agree with Sheelagh Hawkins comments regarding the Free access to our records at Ancestry, I am very concerned over, what I consider, the much more disturbing problem of searches returning incorrect district names. I have checked the site personally and have had 'Ware, Hertfordshire' returned as 'Wareham, Hertfordshire'. From previous messages this appears to be quite a regular occurence. Do you not consider that we should be asking Ancestry to suspend their use of our data until such time as they can guarantee to have resolved the problem. We all know that there are enough errors already built into the index, which we can do nothing about, without adding to them. This can only reflect badly on us as the transcribers because people searching the index at Ancestry will either assume that it is our bad transcription - if they realise the error - or spend time and money trying to obtain certificates from non-existent records. I do feel that we need to take action to protect our reputations. Regards Mervyn Wright --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 18/09/2001

Hi Bruce, Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I would like to reiterate that: They do give credit to FreeBMD and they have the trsnacribers submitter ids on the site against the records. We specifically asked them NOT to include the emails because we did not feel that people wanted to be spammed more than they currently are by people searching FreeBMD. I am not sure what kind of other credit you were after. Clearly we could insist on them acknowledging all the individual contributors to FreeBMD by name, but I suspect that a lot of people would not like that. They are bound by the same rules as we are with the ONS in that they are not allowed, now or ever, to charge for access to FreeBD. Bruce Dancy wrote: > > Following is a letter I wrote to Ancestry.com: > > I am a transcriber to FreeBMD and have spent many hours doing this very > difficult work reading handwritten pages. I have also subscribed to your > company to use your data base. Now I understand you are using the data > transcribed on your web site and only giving credit to where the data > originated but not to the people who are doing the transcribing and most > difficult part of the job. You might be the sponsor of free BMD but it > does’t give you the right to ignore the hard work that people are doing > for you financial benefit. You must remember that this is just barely 15% > of the data and if you are acting in this manner you might have difficult > suckering more people into your scheme. Thank you very much. > > This is the letter I sent to, Ancestry.com. I would like to be optimistic > as one transcriber put it “It should all come right in the end.” I am > afraid what will happen in the end is Ancestry.com will sell the information > after it has all been transcribed. Personally, i do not believe this will be the case .. and I do not believe that anyone would purchase such an offer given that the records are available for free. It would also be against the agreement with the ONS. > In my opinion this company does not have > the greatest ethics as demonstrated in what they have just done. Ethics is > a word in our time that is not in use in the same sentence as profit. My > question is; are we betting on the right horse? Ancestry requested a copy of the database and agreed it would only ever be free. Their marketing department may be guilty of making the most of the situation but, as a commercial Company, I suspect that is expected and I think you would be hard pushed to find other marketing depts of equivalent companies who wouldn't have done a similar press release. It is up to us to make sure that people are aware that they do not have to join to get the BMD records. Ancestry have been very good to FreeBMD and have been good sponsors. They have not yet done anything to break the agreement. Having said that, we would look for other sponsors if conditions change as would any organisation in our position. > If Ancestry.com withdraws > their financial support in the long hall where does that put FREEBMD? > Who > now does this free information belong to but Ancestry.com to use in any > fashion they wish. The information does not belong to Ancestry.com to do with as they wish. They must comply with the conditions. > Maybe we should be doing this work for the FHC or GRO > and let them be the managers. > Is this action the true colors of > Ancestry.com? Unless I can be convinced otherwise my free transcribing days > are over for Ancestry.com It is the true colours of a commercial organisation. FHCs and the ONS have had the opportunity but are more interested in the actual birth records. The LDS have been aware of the project from the start and we have spoken to them. They have other priorities and so decided not to form syndicates but they were very welcome to be involved. I hope we don't lose any transcribers because Ancestry have effectively given FreeBMD another channel which helps the loading of the server out. They are continuing to support the project and scanning the film, which they purchased and own. I understand the conflict between a Free volunteer project and a commercial sponsor, but we have to face realities. I feel that they are guilty or marketing blurb, but not guilty of charging for the records, not guilty of not giving FreeBMD credit. I do hope you will stay and transcribe for us and just make sure that the message gets out that people can access the records free on Ancestry without joining. Cheers Graham > If you feel so incline to answer me please do it through the digest. Thanks. > > ==== FreeBMD-Admins Mailing List ==== > Need to get a fast answer to your transcribing problems? Go to the > Transcribers Knowledge Base at http://FreeBMD.RootsWeb.com/vol_faq.html > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

ernb wrote: > Stephen BULL m Eve MASON abt. 1850 > Ernest COOK m Harriett ROBBINS between 1894 and 1915 > > There is no mention of the events in the indexes and they have been searched thoroughly by others as well as by me. They may have lived in sin all those years, but have they just not been indexed? > > In the June 2001 issue of F T M there is an article 'A Comedy of Errors, Act 2' which would appear to explain why. Extensive research by Michael Foster of NZ highlights the problems with the registration system. I quote, "Both the records and their indexes are incomplete and far from accurate." As many as one in 40 c19th marriages are 'missing'. He shows instances where whole pages of events have been omitted from the indexes. > > I am wondering if the Free BMD project could not go someway to correcting the records. Am I not right in believing that, over time, there should be an index entry for every page/record in the registers? If the index database is checked when each quarter's indexes have been transcribed, cannot all the missing entries be identified? > > The GRO could then be asked where are, say, Amesbury Births, Vol 5a, entries 243 to 247, etc. > > Or have I misunderstood the way the registers and the Free BMD indexes work? No, you understand it perfectly! Once transcription for a quarter is complete it will be possible to identify many (but not all) references which are; 1) incorrect 2) missing At present, we have no way of filling in the blanks from the GRO, but there are other avenues which might be open to us to reconstruct the missing data. Having said that, where blocks (80 names) are omitted from the index, you would be very unlucky to lose both partners! FreeBMD will, even without extraction of the extra data from the GRO be able to say; page 123; Man-A Man-B Woman-C "3 entries! one person from this page is not indexed" So if one of the men matched, and there is a blank for a female, you might have an avenue to explore. -- Dave Mayall

I was a transcriber for the free BMD project, but family duties have put a stop to my efforts. I am looking after my 90 years old father. He has senile dementia so I am occupied for most of the time. I promise, though, provided you guys leave some for me to do, that I'll be back at it asap. Now to the point of my posting. I am having trouble tracing two marriages. Stephen BULL m Eve MASON abt. 1850 Ernest COOK m Harriett ROBBINS between 1894 and 1915 There is no mention of the events in the indexes and they have been searched thoroughly by others as well as by me. They may have lived in sin all those years, but have they just not been indexed? In the June 2001 issue of F T M there is an article 'A Comedy of Errors, Act 2' which would appear to explain why. Extensive research by Michael Foster of NZ highlights the problems with the registration system. I quote, "Both the records and their indexes are incomplete and far from accurate." As many as one in 40 c19th marriages are 'missing'. He shows instances where whole pages of events have been omitted from the indexes. I am wondering if the Free BMD project could not go someway to correcting the records. Am I not right in believing that, over time, there should be an index entry for every page/record in the registers? If the index database is checked when each quarter's indexes have been transcribed, cannot all the missing entries be identified? The GRO could then be asked where are, say, Amesbury Births, Vol 5a, entries 243 to 247, etc. Or have I misunderstood the way the registers and the Free BMD indexes work? Cheers Ernie Bull Was of Bristol, now W London

Cheers Graham I've calmed down now. Bob Phillips (John Slann Institute of Transcribers) ps If we used Tommy the triceratops we could have 3 bit scans! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hart" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:09 AM Subject: [FreeBMD-News] FreeBMD data available on ancestry.com website. > Hi, > > Ancestry have issued a press release announcing their New Data > Collection for the UK and Ireland. > (http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/news/articles/4741.asp) > > They now carry a copy of the FreeBMD database on their site. Access to > the FreeBMD records on the Ancestry site is free. You have to join to > gain access to some of their other data but this does NOT include the > FreeBMD records. > > Ancestry continued the RootsWeb sponsorship of FreeBMD and we have > always said they could take make the data searchable on their site as > long as they meet our criteria ... i.e. it is available free on the > Internet. > > As they are launching their new UK and Ireland section, they have taken > up this offer and have put a copy of FreeBMD on their site. > > They are NOT allowed to make a charge for FreeBMD. > > We see this as positive in a number of ways: > > 1) Ancestry have sponsored us well in the past and this makes their > commitment to the project that much greater. > > 2) People are now able to search on both the FreeBMD website or on > Ancestry, thus releasing some of the pressure on the FreeBMD website. > > 3) Ancestry have a different search engine and more horsepower, so they > can support a wider variety of queries than the FreeBMD site. > > > We appreciate the concern that this has caused but would like to assure > everyone that FreeBMD remains committed to putting the GRO indexes on > the Internet and searchable for free. We will not allow anyone, and nor > will the ONS from whom we have permission for the project, to put the > FreeBMD data on the Internet and charge. > > > Cheers > > Graham Hart > Ben Laurie > Dave Mayall > Camilla von Massenbach > Corgi the transcribing duck > Arnold the scanning stegosaurus > > > ==== FreeBMD-News Mailing List ==== > FreeBMD is proudly supported by RootsWeb.com and Ancestry.com > http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! > > > ==== FreeBMD-Admins Mailing List ==== > Need to get a fast answer to your transcribing problems? Go to the > Transcribers Knowledge Base at http://FreeBMD.RootsWeb.com/vol_faq.html > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB >

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:38:08 +0100, you wrote: >so I checked some of my own data and one of the first was obviously >wrong. Kings Norton district was represented as Kington, though the >volume and page number were correct. Similarly Chelsea has been >misrepresented as Cheltenham,Walsall as Walsingham. As you can see there >seems to be confusion based on the first four characters of the dictrict >name. > >Is Ancestry aware, yet? Yes. I spotted that they seemed to have mangled the districts on some records as soon as I discovered that they had gone live on this. We are awaiting a response from them on this issue. -- Dave Mayall

Hi, Yes, they are aware .. we raised it with them when Dave found a similar problem this morning. We will push them to use the correct districts as much as we can ... Cheers Graham Peter Hendy-Ibbs wrote: > > Dear Graham et al, > > I, too, have noticed that Ancestry are including FreeBMD on their site > of searchable databsses. However, they seem to have introduced errors. I > was alerted to this by one of my contributors who wrote: > > "I checked some of my submissions (specifically for Hubling) and found > that the > district had been changed from Camberwell (FreeBMD) to Cambridge" > > so I checked some of my own data and one of the first was obviously > wrong. Kings Norton district was represented as Kington, though the > volume and page number were correct. Similarly Chelsea has been > misrepresented as Cheltenham,Walsall as Walsingham. As you can see there > seems to be confusion based on the first four characters of the dictrict > name. > > Is Ancestry aware, yet? > > Peter Hendy-Ibbs > > -- > Researching: IBBS from Hunts/Beds and HENDY from Pembrokeshire > > Transcribing and reformatting for FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com) > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Dear Graham et al, I, too, have noticed that Ancestry are including FreeBMD on their site of searchable databsses. However, they seem to have introduced errors. I was alerted to this by one of my contributors who wrote: "I checked some of my submissions (specifically for Hubling) and found that the district had been changed from Camberwell (FreeBMD) to Cambridge" so I checked some of my own data and one of the first was obviously wrong. Kings Norton district was represented as Kington, though the volume and page number were correct. Similarly Chelsea has been misrepresented as Cheltenham,Walsall as Walsingham. As you can see there seems to be confusion based on the first four characters of the dictrict name. Is Ancestry aware, yet? Peter Hendy-Ibbs -- Researching: IBBS from Hunts/Beds and HENDY from Pembrokeshire Transcribing and reformatting for FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com)

Unsubscribe please. I now have a different email address and have subscribed under that one. Thanks Jane Scarisbrick

>Uh, oh!! I'm beginning to feel like Dustin Hoffman in Rainman! Me too! As per this and Barrie's email, I've understood the syntax of Format.html well enough that my files upload and the data is searchable, but definitely not the semantics! >My difficulty ... researchers who have often collected their data over many years. >It is not possible to tell (and they probably cannot recall) where a new +PAGE started. I have the same problem for my own data and that from friends that I am uploading. Mary

Peter Hendy-Ibbs wrote: > Some of the One-namers are selective, that is they only research a > surname for a particular region (I am guilty here because I do not > record the Stoke-on-Trent Ibbs names), so the names are not true > sequences. Others include related surnames (i.e. related by marriage) > within the same file, so I may have a long sequence of Dutton (for > instance), some random Trewicks, and a small sequence of Goths where > someone has been looking for a specific event. It is impossible for me > to be sure that sequences are complete, and difficult at a practical > level, to search and insert so many +BREAKs. The only files where that > may be achieved is in the few larger files where a contributor has > transcribed every instance of a name - and then I would have to insert > approximately 250 +BREAKs between 1837 and 1900 (and some files go to > 1983)! +BREAK is NOT needed on change of quarter. > I can't change them to Random if they have sequences, and I can't tell > where the BREAKs should be. Rainman meets Catch22? It would seem so :-( We need to deal with these files on a case by case basis. -- Dave Mayall

Uh, oh!! I'm beginning to feel like Dustin Hoffman in Rainman! My difficulty (and I presume the same is true for Peter Abbott and Kevin Sutton) is that I receive files from family researchers who have often collected their data over many years. It is not possible to tell (and they probably cannot recall) where a new +PAGE started. Some of the One-namers are selective, that is they only research a surname for a particular region (I am guilty here because I do not record the Stoke-on-Trent Ibbs names), so the names are not true sequences. Others include related surnames (i.e. related by marriage) within the same file, so I may have a long sequence of Dutton (for instance), some random Trewicks, and a small sequence of Goths where someone has been looking for a specific event. It is impossible for me to be sure that sequences are complete, and difficult at a practical level, to search and insert so many +BREAKs. The only files where that may be achieved is in the few larger files where a contributor has transcribed every instance of a name - and then I would have to insert approximately 250 +BREAKs between 1837 and 1900 (and some files go to 1983)! I can't change them to Random if they have sequences, and I can't tell where the BREAKs should be. Rainman meets Catch22? best wishes :-) Peter On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:27:54 +0100, Dave Mayall wrote: >If your files are ONENAME, then you MUST; >1) Insert a +BREAK if you have included 2 variant surnames (or >different surnames) in one quarter, so; >2) Insert a +PAGE if a sequence of names started on one page and ended >on another >If your files are RANDOM and actually contain sequences of data, they >should be ONENAME -- Researching: IBBS from Hunts/Beds and HENDY from Pembrokeshire Transcribing and reformatting for FreeBMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com)

Peter Hendy-Ibbs wrote: > Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. The frustration felt by some of the contributors > was for the data they have gleaned *prior* to the GRO acquisition dates, i.e. > pre1911/12 for Spouse and Mother and pre-1856 for Age at Death. Ah, OK. > > Would it be reasonable for FeeBMD to incorporate > > > non-GRO, non-verified fields which would not form part of the formal > > > transcription, indexing and verification process? > > > > Short answer.... > > > > Yes, we could incorporate a postems type facility, which would allow transcribers > > to add virtual post-it notes to records that they have information about, and to > > have that information displayed to enquirers. > > > > Longer Answer... > > ... but it will take a while to implement. > > > > Sounds hopeful, though. Although the search and display for such a Post-'em facility > is not a priority it may be useful to incorporate an option to accept and store such > information at a relatively early stage since we are approaching 20% of the target. Search and display is the easy bit! Accept and transfer on rebuild are much harder. -- Dave Mayall

Definitely looks like Format.html should be updated! It would be useful if it had some high level advice - it does rather dive into the detail! It would be useful, for example, to explain when to use ONENAME instead of SEQUENCED and what the difference is ;-) Does a change of quarter have an impact on the explanation? This is where flat file format (+FORMAT) *is* relevant since you can change quarters at random. Barrie > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Mayall [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 17 October 2001 08:37 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Fw: March 1867 Marriages, Page 75 > > > On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:27:54 +0100, you wrote: > > >Hi Dave and Pete > > I've uploaded 5 one name personal files, no +BREAK. 2 > births, 1 marr > >and 2 deaths. All various years. > >I used this as the third line > >+FORMAT,Surname,Firstname,District,Volume,Page,Quarter,Year,Type > >Can you let me know if I need to change them. > > I think I need to write a good explanation of ONENAME, RANDOM, +PAGE > +BREAK > > The +FORMAT is not relevant BTW. > > If your files are ONENAME, then you MUST; > > 1) Insert a +BREAK if you have included 2 variant surnames (or > different surnames) in one quarter, so; > > Smith,John,Ashton,20,123,Mar,1838,M > Smith,Robert,London,2,345,Mar,1838,M > +BREAK > Smythe,Ann,Aberystwyth,27,12,Mar,1838,m > > 2) Insert a +PAGE if a sequence of names started on one page and ended > on another > > If your files are RANDOM and actually contain sequences of data, they > should be ONENAME > > > -- > Dave Mayall >

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:27:54 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Dave and Pete > I've uploaded 5 one name personal files, no +BREAK. 2 births, 1 marr >and 2 deaths. All various years. >I used this as the third line >+FORMAT,Surname,Firstname,District,Volume,Page,Quarter,Year,Type >Can you let me know if I need to change them. I think I need to write a good explanation of ONENAME, RANDOM, +PAGE +BREAK The +FORMAT is not relevant BTW. If your files are ONENAME, then you MUST; 1) Insert a +BREAK if you have included 2 variant surnames (or different surnames) in one quarter, so; Smith,John,Ashton,20,123,Mar,1838,M Smith,Robert,London,2,345,Mar,1838,M +BREAK Smythe,Ann,Aberystwyth,27,12,Mar,1838,m 2) Insert a +PAGE if a sequence of names started on one page and ended on another If your files are RANDOM and actually contain sequences of data, they should be ONENAME -- Dave Mayall