Teri I'm already on the +PAGE thingy. Test out: http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/FreeBMD_PAGE_Instructions.htm I'll leave somebody else to sort out the "easy" one about periods/full stops??? Allan Raymond [email protected] http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Monarchies_of_Europe.htm FreeBMD - putting birth marriages and deaths on the Internet http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gypsy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 07:52 Subject: Re: The Infamous period...... G'day Graham I'm wondering if it would be a good idea if you set out the rules again in step by step instructions and sent out to all the syndicates co-ords - that way everyone would have the same instructions at the same time and we could quote from 'your' instructions on how to handle a situation when we're asked by a transcriber and not be putting our interpretation of your rules out there. Exactly how you want the full stop to be used Exactly how you want the +PAGE to be used etc Cheers Teri -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 156 Release Date: 25/10/2001 ============================== Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate your heritage! http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog

Hi Brian, Brian Smart wrote: > > In answer to my comment: > > "For my own reasons I did not use the numbering system as in the September > quarter, thus the March quarter has unique numbers for each file." > > > Graham said: > > > > "My feeling about using your own numbering system is that we lose the > > opportunity of matching page to page when we come to match the double > > entry keying of that quarter so I would prefer that we all were > > consistent." > > > It seems to me that nobody has thought through this issue and things have > been left to the Coordinators. This is particularly the case when it comes > to naming files. Naming files is of absolutely no consequence to the central system. It is of consequence to coordinators and transcribers and therefore to SpeedBMD, MacBMD and WinBMD. The PAGE flag has been thought through a lot. There had to be a way of identifying separate pages so that an easy check could be made to see if ranges had ben completed or not and to help sequencing during the double entry. > If definitive rules were specified, we would not be in the position where we > are trying to formulate them after the work has been done. The +PAGE has been in existence since the start and the way we are saying to use it now is no different that that at day one. > One of the obvious problems, from my point of view, is that as a coordinator > I do not know the way the overall system works. While this may not concern > all coordinators, I feel that if I don't know the system I can't be expected > to make rational decisions. The Syndicates list has existed from the start of the coordinators with the express purpose of coordinators asking questions on it and discussing issues. The way the project woprks is that transcribers ask coordinators and cordinators refer back to us where they do not know the answer. This takes the load away from us and stops us being a bottleneck to the process. In most cases this has worked well. If questions are not asked by the coordinators, it is impossible for us to know that things are unclearin certain areas. Please ask questions about the system and we can answer them It became obvious that things were unclear in the +PAGE area and we are trying to clarify it. > As a final comment, given that indexes are used to speed the process of > answering peoples search queries what difference does it make which order > the files are collated? It makes a big difference in terms of double keying. In order to compare your range with the double keyed range, we need to have the records in the correct order. Can I add a plea for the posts to calm downa bit in their content. As we all know, we are all volunteers with other things to do in real life and its better to have a rational discussion than to snap at each other. Everyone, transcribers, coordinators and organiser put a lot of time into the project. From our point of view, we make mistakes and we try to rectify them where we can. Things will inevitably change during the course of a project and have to be adjusted. Syndicates didn't exist at the start of the project for example. Someone has to decide what the ruls are or aren't and that falls on he 4 of us organising things. There will be misunderstandings on both sides and we will do our best to come to a solution that fits the project as best it can. My comments to you about your own page numbering were intended as a view. However, it is more important that there are +PAGE present, than the numbers going after them. The fact that you have used your own numbering system is not a disaster and doesn't invalidate the work you have done in any way. We recognise that the project will have transcribers around who not follow the system, this is one reason why we keep the transcriber's files in their own directories. It allows us to narrow down those files that are lkely to have a particular error and fix them if necessary. We will have to adjust things at times, its the nature of the beast. Apologies if I have been snappy with anyone in this discussion, it was not intentional. Cheers Graham > > Brian Smart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Graham Hart [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: 28 October 2001 14:57 > > To: Brian Smart > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: +PAGE > > > > > > Hi Brian, > > > > Brian Smart wrote: > > > > > > Having moved the following to a different list, could I > > please have an > > > answer! > > > > You may have noticed its been somewhat busy today ! ... and > > answers need > > to be thought out .. I may not be the best person to answer a > > particular > > query ..... etcetcetc > > > > > > > > > > The explanation I was given regarding the need for > > +PAGE,???? on the end of > > > a file was as follows. > > > The data compiler looks for the +PAGE entry to know which > > is the next file > > > in the sequence. I had no problems with that, and it seems perfectly > > > logical. > > > > > > How is the following explained? > > > > > > In the 1845 births there are three strands of numbers all > > starting from 1. > > > Thus unless action is taken to avoid it, there will be > > three files with the > > > same +PAGE number at the end of the file. Although at > > present +PAGE has not > > > been added, two files that show this are 45B3A002 and 45B3J002. > > > > > > If the data compiler can overcome this, is +PAGE really needed? > > > > Yes, without the +PAGE we have no idea where a page starts > > and ends and > > can't easily identify missing pages. > > > > The +PAGE gives us checkpoints for the matching process. > > > > Where there are multiple strands of page numbers, I would have thought > > that the alphabetical sequence would make it clear which was which .. > > when the matching starts, the code should be able to warn > > that the page > > sequence dropped from z back to n or whatever. This can then be > > investigated and checked. > > > > > For my own reasons I did not use the numbering system as in > > the September > > > quarter, thus the March quarter has unique numbers for each file. > > > > My feeling about using yor own numbering system is that we lose the > > opportunity of matching page to page weh we come to match the double > > entry keying of that quarter so I would prefer that we all were > > consistent. However, I am not thinking clearly at the moment > > (headache) > > and have a nagging doubt on this ... Dave is probably better > > positioned > > to answer it when he returns to the fray. > > > > Cheers > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Brian Smart > > > > > > ============================== > > > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > > > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! > >

You know I have to admit, I've been getting a bit lost here at times with all of this BUT (not shouting) I do see what John's trying to say now - I think! See, I download all the files. I then email them out to my team. Obviously I dont email out the blanks sooooooooo, my teams +PAGE numbers are not going to be right are they because there's big gaps in the number sequences to allow for the blank files? I send out 1862B1-0380.tif as the last page before the alphabetical change so that files +PAGE,0380 & +PAGE,0381 - the next file after the blanks is 1862B1-0392.tif ending up with +PAGE,0392 & +PAGE,0393 Oh ooooops. Now what have I done? Cheers Teri -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 156 Release Date: 25/10/2001

In message <[email protected]>, Allan Raymond <[email protected]> writes >John > >Thanks for the comments. > >I changed the Web Page an hour or so ago to say that the Question and >Answers will >be incorporated into the "Rules". > >I will incorporate your suggestions later on today. You may already have addressed this from the rules section on the original page you uploaded: "In the (rare) cases where transcribers are submitting files that start or end mid-page, no +PAGE line should be inserted" Although Dave answers it in one of the Q/As, it might be worth altering it to something on the lines: "In the (rare) cases where transcribers are submitting files that start or end mid-page (ie. there are more untranscribed entries on the page), no +PAGE line should be inserted" -- Philip Powell

In message <[email protected]>, Graham Hart <[email protected]> writes >hi, > >John Slann wrote: >> >> Graham wrote, >> >> We can run through the data in that quarter and identify the +PAGE numbers >> and print out the sequence. This >> can easily highlight missing and odd ones eg. where there is a +PAGE,362 >> followed by a +PAGE,368 in the sequence (from different files, tho) we know >> that some pages are 'missing' and will check back with you. Its quick to >> look and see that these were blank. >> >> Graham you say "quick", but, I am not so sure. For instance pages with a >> large initial only (those denoting a surname change) will appear as blanks. >> Not all have been reported by transcribers and they will show as gaps. Each >> will want investigation, a thorough job means looking at the tiff before, >> the alleged blank, and the tiff afterwards. That will take 5 minutes, 26 >> times to get through the alphabet, say two hours. Then in the case of >> 1846BQ1 there are at least 19 runs of blanks. Similar checking applies, >> but this time only 2 lookups required to look at the tiff at each end of the >> blanks to make sure the sheets either side with data do follow on in an >> alphabetical sequence. Say 3 minutes at least 19 times means another hour. >> That looks like three hours to check for blanks. And (tongue in cheek) can >> I get on the site? > >:)) > >I would have thought it would take longer than three hours :)) ... I >meant quick compared with the original transcription time. It will take >time to clean a quarter and the people doing it will spend some time >doing. > >I meant that 3 hours is not a lot in the scheme of things. There will be >other checking that will take far far longer !.. > >I didn't mean to imply that it would be you looking at the scans, btw. >Cleaning should be done by volunteers, who may also happen to be >coordinators, of course, but not necessarily. I don't see the cleaning >being a role of the cordinator.... > >> I know I do not have to do it all at once but it is not quick. >> >> So Graham, thanks for helping, I feel that progress is being made, but we >> must not minimise the problem (and I must not overstate it!) > >No, I wouldn't minimise it ... but 'quick' is relative :) Perhaps co-ordinators could remind all subscribers of the need to report blanks to them. That may allow for some checking during relatively quiet periods and reduce the load at the end? Just a thought. -- Philip Powell

In answer to my comment: "For my own reasons I did not use the numbering system as in the September quarter, thus the March quarter has unique numbers for each file." Graham said: "My feeling about using your own numbering system is that we lose the opportunity of matching page to page when we come to match the double entry keying of that quarter so I would prefer that we all were consistent." It seems to me that nobody has thought through this issue and things have been left to the Coordinators. This is particularly the case when it comes to naming files. If definitive rules were specified, we would not be in the position where we are trying to formulate them after the work has been done. One of the obvious problems, from my point of view, is that as a coordinator I do not know the way the overall system works. While this may not concern all coordinators, I feel that if I don't know the system I can't be expected to make rational decisions. As a final comment, given that indexes are used to speed the process of answering peoples search queries what difference does it make which order the files are collated? Brian Smart > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham Hart [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 28 October 2001 14:57 > To: Brian Smart > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: +PAGE > > > Hi Brian, > > Brian Smart wrote: > > > > Having moved the following to a different list, could I > please have an > > answer! > > You may have noticed its been somewhat busy today ! ... and > answers need > to be thought out .. I may not be the best person to answer a > particular > query ..... etcetcetc > > > > > > The explanation I was given regarding the need for > +PAGE,???? on the end of > > a file was as follows. > > The data compiler looks for the +PAGE entry to know which > is the next file > > in the sequence. I had no problems with that, and it seems perfectly > > logical. > > > > How is the following explained? > > > > In the 1845 births there are three strands of numbers all > starting from 1. > > Thus unless action is taken to avoid it, there will be > three files with the > > same +PAGE number at the end of the file. Although at > present +PAGE has not > > been added, two files that show this are 45B3A002 and 45B3J002. > > > > If the data compiler can overcome this, is +PAGE really needed? > > Yes, without the +PAGE we have no idea where a page starts > and ends and > can't easily identify missing pages. > > The +PAGE gives us checkpoints for the matching process. > > Where there are multiple strands of page numbers, I would have thought > that the alphabetical sequence would make it clear which was which .. > when the matching starts, the code should be able to warn > that the page > sequence dropped from z back to n or whatever. This can then be > investigated and checked. > > > For my own reasons I did not use the numbering system as in > the September > > quarter, thus the March quarter has unique numbers for each file. > > My feeling about using yor own numbering system is that we lose the > opportunity of matching page to page weh we come to match the double > entry keying of that quarter so I would prefer that we all were > consistent. However, I am not thinking clearly at the moment > (headache) > and have a nagging doubt on this ... Dave is probably better > positioned > to answer it when he returns to the fray. > > Cheers > > Graham > > > > > Regards > > > > Brian Smart > > > > ============================== > > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! >

G'day Graham I'm wondering if it would be a good idea if you set out the rules again in step by step instructions and sent out to all the syndicates co-ords - that way everyone would have the same instructions at the same time and we could quote from 'your' instructions on how to handle a situation when we're asked by a transcriber and not be putting our interpretation of your rules out there. Exactly how you want the full stop to be used Exactly how you want the +PAGE to be used etc Cheers Teri -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 156 Release Date: 25/10/2001

Our emails have just crossed over, I have asked John the same question? Allan Raymond [email protected] http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Monarchies_of_Europe.htm FreeBMD - putting birth marriages and deaths on the Internet http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Carter" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 15:08 Subject: Re: +PAGE Instruction - Temporary Web page John, at 13:31 28/10/2001, you wrote: SNIP >Should we make clear that the rules only apply to scans? Er, excuse me, but who said it only applies to scans? Stephen Revd S H Carter [email protected]

John, at 13:31 28/10/2001, you wrote: SNIP >Should we make clear that the rules only apply to scans? Er, excuse me, but who said it only applies to scans? Stephen Revd S H Carter [email protected] United Benefice of Coalbrookdale, Ironbridge and Little Wenlock http://www.rectorshouse.freeserve.co.uk/benefice/benframe.html

John I may not be thinking straight (I'm in the middle of scraping off the wallpaper in our kitchen), but why is +PAGE just applicable to "scans"? It should apply to transcribing from fiche or films as we still need to know the page number, although for fiche and films we should use the actual page number (assuming it is shown) on the fiche/film as opposed to the tiff on scans.. Allan Raymond [email protected] http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Monarchies_of_Europe.htm FreeBMD - putting birth marriages and deaths on the Internet http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slann" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 13:31 Subject: +PAGE Instruction - Temporary Web page Dear Allan, Thanks for your help with this. I have visited your +PAGE page. Please could we have four more rules rather than questions and answers. The rules should address 1 known blank pages, eg where a transcriber reports a blank tiff or tiffs. 2 the treatment of single giant initial pages 3 that +PAGE is obligatory at the end of the transcription of a complete tiff as a single file. 4 a clear statement of where the +PAGE should be typed. One of my transcribers tried everywhere but the surname field! If one is difficult to reconcile "It is highly desirable that...." with "but this is not obligatory". I would opt not to do it with given the choice, please omit from the rules or make it obligatory. Should we make clear that the rules only apply to scans? There is a general point in all this that we have to take great care to be sure we all share the same concept of what we mean by a page. I have deliberately started to use "tiff" when I am speaking of blanks. From a transcribers point of view it is the tiff that is blank. Hope this helps John ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237

Hi Brian, Brian Smart wrote: > > Having moved the following to a different list, could I please have an > answer! You may have noticed its been somewhat busy today ! ... and answers need to be thought out .. I may not be the best person to answer a particular query ..... etcetcetc > > The explanation I was given regarding the need for +PAGE,???? on the end of > a file was as follows. > The data compiler looks for the +PAGE entry to know which is the next file > in the sequence. I had no problems with that, and it seems perfectly > logical. > > How is the following explained? > > In the 1845 births there are three strands of numbers all starting from 1. > Thus unless action is taken to avoid it, there will be three files with the > same +PAGE number at the end of the file. Although at present +PAGE has not > been added, two files that show this are 45B3A002 and 45B3J002. > > If the data compiler can overcome this, is +PAGE really needed? Yes, without the +PAGE we have no idea where a page starts and ends and can't easily identify missing pages. The +PAGE gives us checkpoints for the matching process. Where there are multiple strands of page numbers, I would have thought that the alphabetical sequence would make it clear which was which .. when the matching starts, the code should be able to warn that the page sequence dropped from z back to n or whatever. This can then be investigated and checked. > For my own reasons I did not use the numbering system as in the September > quarter, thus the March quarter has unique numbers for each file. My feeling about using yor own numbering system is that we lose the opportunity of matching page to page weh we come to match the double entry keying of that quarter so I would prefer that we all were consistent. However, I am not thinking clearly at the moment (headache) and have a nagging doubt on this ... Dave is probably better positioned to answer it when he returns to the fray. Cheers Graham > > Regards > > Brian Smart > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query!

Having moved the following to a different list, could I please have an answer! The explanation I was given regarding the need for +PAGE,???? on the end of a file was as follows. The data compiler looks for the +PAGE entry to know which is the next file in the sequence. I had no problems with that, and it seems perfectly logical. How is the following explained? In the 1845 births there are three strands of numbers all starting from 1. Thus unless action is taken to avoid it, there will be three files with the same +PAGE number at the end of the file. Although at present +PAGE has not been added, two files that show this are 45B3A002 and 45B3J002. If the data compiler can overcome this, is +PAGE really needed? For my own reasons I did not use the numbering system as in the September quarter, thus the March quarter has unique numbers for each file. Regards Brian Smart

John Thanks for the comments. I changed the Web Page an hour or so ago to say that the Question and Answers will be incorporated into the "Rules". I will incorporate your suggestions later on today. Regards Allan Raymond [email protected] http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Monarchies_of_Europe.htm FreeBMD - putting birth marriages and deaths on the Internet http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slann" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 13:31 Subject: +PAGE Instruction - Temporary Web page Dear Allan, Thanks for your help with this. I have visited your +PAGE page. Please could we have four more rules rather than questions and answers. The rules should address 1 known blank pages, eg where a transcriber reports a blank tiff or tiffs. 2 the treatment of single giant initial pages 3 that +PAGE is obligatory at the end of the transcription of a complete tiff as a single file. 4 a clear statement of where the +PAGE should be typed. One of my transcribers tried everywhere but the surname field! If one is difficult to reconcile "It is highly desirable that...." with "but this is not obligatory". I would opt not to do it with given the choice, please omit from the rules or make it obligatory. Should we make clear that the rules only apply to scans? There is a general point in all this that we have to take great care to be sure we all share the same concept of what we mean by a page. I have deliberately started to use "tiff" when I am speaking of blanks. From a transcribers point of view it is the tiff that is blank. Hope this helps John ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237

I emailed them yesterday!!!! Sue E Sussex, UK My Family Tree Website is at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sadovaston ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gray" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Dave: Period means the END !! > Surely the GRO could provide the definitive answer to this question? They > must hold the records of the instructions issued to their transcribers as > to the format they should use when compiling the indexes, where to place > full stops, commas etc. and the reasons for doing so. > > Would it not be worthwhile contacting them? > > David Gray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Hart" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: Dave: Period means the END !! > > > > Hi, > > > > Kiwiz Syndicate wrote: > > > > > > | Dave Mayall said: > > > | > > 1) There are cases where there is quite distinctly a period > following a > > > forename, > > > | > > separate from and different to the row of dots that follow. > > > | > > 2) The use of such a period would appear to be against some but > not all records > > > | > > on a page > > > | > > 3) we can conclude that either it means something or is poor > typesetting > > > | > > > > > | > > We know that a period following a single letter means that the > letter is a > > > | > > contraction of a name to an initial, so I propose a hypothesis > that a period > > > | > > following a forename MAY indicate that there are further forenames > not indexed > > > snip > > > > > > I don't know which page Dave is on about but I have checked out a number > of typed > > > pages here; > > > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/GUS/1868/Marriages/March/DB-01 > > > 1868M1-0007.tif > > > 1868M1-0008.tif > > > 1868M1-0009.tif > > > > > > The fullstop/period denotes the end of something not the opposite. My > dictionary says > > > 'Complete cessation'. IMHO the period signifies the end of the > forenames, NOT the > > > possible continuance of. Notice they use a comma after a surname > MEANING more > > > follows. > > > > > > Surely the full stop after Mr. Mrs. St. etc shows it as being a method > > for indicating a shortened form of the word. It can also be a full stop > > at the end of a sentence of an expression meaning the end. In this case, > > the discussion is whether it is being used to indicate that the data > > immediately preceding it has been shortened in some way. > > > > Neither you nor I are able to say for sure that they are not shortened. > > But we can say that, if the period is indicating that something was > > shortened, then not transcribing it loses that information from the > > index. The deision we have to take is whether it can carry informtion or > > not and we believe it can. > > > > > - Contrary to 2) above: There is a period at the end of EVERY Forename > on each page > > > above and if it's not there it's been obliterated. > > > > That is a very small subset of pages in the index and you are surely not > > asking us to extrapolate from 3 scan images to apply it to the rest of > > the 100 million records ? > > > > > - If there are two forenames the period is only entered after the second > name. > > > - Some names have three F'names ie Mary Ann B., the period is at the end > (this period > > > must be entered as it's an abbrev.). > > > > Surely this is the whole crux. We are saying that you cannot be sure > > that the others are not abbreviations as well. I am sure that for > > certain periods of time the indexes contain a consistent way of > > indicating abbreviations, but that is unlikely to be consistent across > > the 60 years and the set of data. > > > > > - I tried to find a 4+ F'name example but could not. But I assume they > would write it > > > Mary Ann B C. Maybe someone could give us an example of a name longer > than 3 F'names. > > > > I think there have been some recently on the admins list. > > > > > | Dave Mayall said > > > | > Now, if my hypothesis is bunkum...snip > > > > > > It's worse than bunkum, I think it's a load of hot smelly air to be > honest, Dave!. > > > And we're all downwind :-). > > no comment. > > > > > > > Logic/common sense has to prevail here at sometime, I'm sure. > > > > Yes, but common sense can differ from person to person and someone has > > to take a decision. Our deiciosn is based on the whole project and what > > we are trying to achieve. > > > > > THE PERIOD is there to say THE END...... and is NOT 'potentially > valuable data'. > > > > > What say you?. > > > > I say a full stop is used frequently to indicate an abbreviation and may > > be being used in that way in some of these records. > > > > Cheers > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > Garry > > > KIWIZ Syndicate Co-ordinator > > > > > > ============================== > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > > > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ============================== > > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > >

At 12:17 28/10/01 +0000, David Gray wrote: >Surely the GRO could provide the definitive answer to this question? They >must hold the records of the instructions issued to their transcribers as >to the format they should use when compiling the indexes, where to place >full stops, commas etc. and the reasons for doing so. If only life were that simple! Instructions may have been issued from time to time - I would hazard a guess that one was issued in the late 1960's or early 70's not to include the abbreviation stop after titles and initials in typed copy as an efficiency measure, and that prior to that time GRO (or OPCS as it became) did so. But even in the Civil Service things are not always well documented but more a matter of custom and practice, and anyway - people don't always follow the rules! Ask our project leaders. Nine times out of ten things only get written down because people are not being consistent, and even then someone will either forget, decide that it should not apply in that case, or fail to read it in the first place (see most of the Discuss list over the past week or two, or consider what most of us were doing about the +PAGE rule). Remember too that we are talking of a very long period over which custom and practice will have evolved. Andrew Hingston <http://www.amhinja.demon.co.uk>

Hi John, the comments are all valuable and the page Allan has put up is a starting point for defining things... we will try tobe as explicit as we can ... Cheers Graham John Slann wrote: > > Dear Allan, > > Thanks for your help with this. I have visited your +PAGE page. > > Please could we have four more rules rather than questions and answers. > > The rules should address > > 1 known blank pages, eg where a transcriber reports a blank tiff or > tiffs. > 2 the treatment of single giant initial pages > 3 that +PAGE is obligatory at the end of the transcription of a > complete tiff as a single file. > 4 a clear statement of where the +PAGE should be typed. One of my > transcribers tried everywhere but the surname field! > > If one is difficult to reconcile "It is highly desirable that...." with "but > this is not obligatory". I would opt not to do it with given the choice, > please omit from the rules or make it obligatory. > > Should we make clear that the rules only apply to scans? > > There is a general point in all this that we have to take great care to be > sure we all share the same concept of what we mean by a page. I have > deliberately started to use "tiff" when I am speaking of blanks. From a > transcribers point of view it is the tiff that is blank. > > Hope this helps > > John > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237

Dear Allan, Thanks for your help with this. I have visited your +PAGE page. Please could we have four more rules rather than questions and answers. The rules should address 1 known blank pages, eg where a transcriber reports a blank tiff or tiffs. 2 the treatment of single giant initial pages 3 that +PAGE is obligatory at the end of the transcription of a complete tiff as a single file. 4 a clear statement of where the +PAGE should be typed. One of my transcribers tried everywhere but the surname field! If one is difficult to reconcile "It is highly desirable that...." with "but this is not obligatory". I would opt not to do it with given the choice, please omit from the rules or make it obligatory. Should we make clear that the rules only apply to scans? There is a general point in all this that we have to take great care to be sure we all share the same concept of what we mean by a page. I have deliberately started to use "tiff" when I am speaking of blanks. From a transcribers point of view it is the tiff that is blank. Hope this helps John

Another point that needs clarification: It is not 'half page' but split page, wrongly named IMHO. The only time +PAGE is left out is when a 300 name page is split into two files. The +PAGE is omitted on the first file only. A rare occurence I'm told. Garry KIWIZ Syndicate Co-ordinator

>The full stop *is* potentially valuable data. I cant' see any possible way a fullstop could be 'potentially valuable data' after a F'name, the decision seems somewhat pedantic to me . Please clarify 'potentially valuable' for me please. Garry KIWIZ Syndicate Co-ordinator

Thanks for your query, I will wait for Dave or Graham to respond with a definitive answer and incorporate on my Web Page. My understanding is the same as yours. One slight thing, you forgot to respond via the DISCUSS list. I have transferred to the correct list. Allan Raymond [email protected] http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Monarchies_of_Europe.htm FreeBMD - putting birth marriages and deaths on the Internet http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Richards" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 28 October 2001 11:58 Subject: Re: +PAGE Instruction - Temporary Web page The files that I have uploaded so far are mostly for part of a page. There aren't many so it is easy to go back and remove the +PAGE from those that don't start at the beginning of a page. This then produces a pink warning saying that a +PAGE is expected. Have I understood correctly that only a file which starts with the first entry in a page should start with a +PAGE and the second +PAGE only goes after the last entry on a page? Christopher Richards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Raymond" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: +PAGE Instruction - Temporary Web page > Hi > > I promised on the SYNDICATE list yesterday to prepare some instructions about > +PAGE. > > I based the instructions from the recent emails on this subject and have included > it on my own Web > Site at : http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/FreeBMD_PAGE_Instructions.htm > > By including this instruction on my Web Site I can do immediate changes. > > This is meant to be the definitive instruction on +PAGE (based on the fact that > the actual advice was given by one of the Project Leaders) until such time as it > appears on the FreeBMD site. > > I welcome comments adverse or otherwise and also if you consider we need to > include further clarification but please send them to the DISCUSS list and not me > personally, I have included a link to the DISCUSS list on Web Page. > > Regards > > Allan Raymond > [email protected] > http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Monarchies_of_Europe.htm > FreeBMD - putting birth marriages and deaths on the Internet > http://FreeBMD.rootsweb.com/ > > > > ==== FREEBMD-SYNDICATES Mailing List ==== > For those in -L mode, to unsubscribe from this mailing list please send the command UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message to - > [email protected] > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > > ==== FREEBMD-SYNDICATES Mailing List ==== Need to get a fast answer to your transcribing problems? Go to the Transcribers Knowledge Base at http://FreeBMD.RootsWeb.com/vol_faq.html ============================== Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history learning and how-to articles on the Internet. http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library