Hi everyone just to update you all on the posting I did back in November regarding the removal of the gravestones and the reusing of the graves in Croydon Cemeteries nr London UK. I asked if I could have a list of the names instead of just grave numbers so as to see if any of my family were among the graves to be reused. They refered it to the Councils Legal department to see if it violated the Freedom of Information Act 2000. My email asking for this list and other concerns was sent on the 10 December 2008. They replied initially and stated that they would reply to me within 20 days. This is their reply. I will not comment as I do not want to influence anyones replies but I would welcome any comments. If anyone wants to reply either on list or off I would appreciate it. Colin Parker ----- Original Message ----- From: Derby, James To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: REQUEST FOR INFORMATION F2008-575 Dear Mr. Parker Thank you for your email dated 10 December 2008 requesting amongst other things the list of names of the graves that is being removed in the cemeteries. We have considered your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and apologise for the delay in replying. We have conducted a search into our records and can confirm that the Council holds the information you have requested. However the Council is unable to disclose this information to you for the reasons set out below. To find the relevant information that you request Council officers would have to sift through copious amounts of data and spend a substantial amount of time putting this in a form that answers your request. The resultant information that Council officers uncover would then need to be examined individually to ensure compliance with the FOIA before disclosure to you. Therefore the cumulative time it would take for Council officers to provide the information you have requested would exceed the "appropriate limit". The appropriate limit has been specified in the Freedom of Information (Fees and Appropriate Limit) Regulations 2004 and for local authorities it is set at £450. This represents the estimated cost of one person spending 2½ working days in locating, retrieving and extracting the information from where it is stored. Under Section 12 of the FOIA the Council is not obliged to comply with your request and we will not be processing your request further. If you are unhappy with the way the department has handled your request under the Freedom of Information Act, you may ask for an internal review. You can do this by outlining the details of your complaint and either: a.. e-mailing us at [email protected] b.. faxing us on 0208 760 5679 c.. writing to FOI Complaints, London Borough of Croydon, Democratic and Legal Services, Croydon, CR9 3JS If you are not content with the outcome of the internal review, you have the right to apply directly to the Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner can be contacted at: a.. Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF Yours sincerely James Derby Corporate Solicitor Legal & Democratic Services London Borough of Croydon Taberner House Park Lane CR9 3JS Tel: 020 8760 5768 Ext. 61359 Fax: 020 8760 5679

Colin wrote: > Hi everyone just to update you all on the posting I did back in > November regarding the removal of the gravestones and the reusing of > the graves in Croydon Cemeteries nr London UK. I asked if I could > have a list of the names instead of just grave numbers so as to see > if any of my family were among the graves to be reused. They refered > it to the Councils Legal department to see if it violated the Freedom > of Information Act 2000. My email asking for this list and other > concerns was sent on the 10 December 2008. They replied initially and > stated that they would reply to me within 20 days. This is their > reply. I will not comment as I do not want to influence anyones > replies but I would welcome any comments. If anyone wants to reply > either on list or off I would appreciate it. A curious response. I would have expected them to already know the identity of the graves (assuming they can be identified) before considering reusing them and that this information would already be stored on a per grave basis and so could easily be transformed into a suitable response. Their response would imply that the relatives paying for maintenance would themselves need to keep the mapping between grave number and their deceased relative as any correspondence would only provide the number. Of course I know nothing about the management of cemeteries and am just looking at it from an information management perspective. Regards, Mark.

Hi Mark Yes I would certainly love to earn even half that amount for that amount of time. The point here is they are reusing between 50 - 75 graves from over 75 years ago. They put the grave numbers at the entrance and at various places within the cemetery about 6 months ago. I asked for the names as numbers do not mean anything to people. this was their reply to my request. To me they do not want graves to be claimed and that is why they make it hard to claim a family grave. As for looking they have transcribed their record books onto computer. I made a comment that they might need to cross check with paper record books before any action is taken as we can never be 100% in transcribing. My own Grandmother can not be traced to a grave and she died with in 1/2 a mile of the cemetery but has no grave not even with her husband who has a grave in the cemetery. They do not check record books now only the computer. I have tried all other cemeteries around this area but I have still not found her. My grandmother could be in one of these graves being reused bearing in mind the time frame. As for any further action I might have luck as the manger promised to look for my family surnames but knowing how they have been in the past I will just pray they do but to fight this they will just laugh at me if I try. I started this in 2005 when on a trip to England I went to my sons grave and while walking to other family graves I found a huge pile of smashed up gravestones. I photographed them and sent it to a local paper who ran a front page story about it. One of the gravestones in the pile was from 1991 and their excuse for this gravestone being in the pile was that it had been put on the wrong grave in the wrong cemetery. Somehow this sounded strange because if I had paid out around 2000 pounds for a gravestone and it never made its way onto my grave I would not wait 14 years to find out where it went too. Also the grave where it was put on the owner would have soon shouted about it. Also they have changed in-perpetuity as well so they can reuse graves quicker. Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Prior" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Freedom of Information Act 2000 > Colin wrote: > >> Hi everyone just to update you all on the posting I did back in >> November regarding the removal of the gravestones and the reusing of >> the graves in Croydon Cemeteries nr London UK. I asked if I could >> have a list of the names instead of just grave numbers so as to see >> if any of my family were among the graves to be reused. They refered >> it to the Councils Legal department to see if it violated the Freedom >> of Information Act 2000. My email asking for this list and other >> concerns was sent on the 10 December 2008. They replied initially and >> stated that they would reply to me within 20 days. This is their >> reply. I will not comment as I do not want to influence anyones >> replies but I would welcome any comments. If anyone wants to reply >> either on list or off I would appreciate it. > > A curious response. I would have expected them to already know the > identity of the graves (assuming they can be identified) before > considering reusing them and that this information would already be > stored on a per grave basis and so could easily be transformed into a > suitable response. Their response would imply that the relatives paying > for maintenance would themselves need to keep the mapping between grave > number and their deceased relative as any correspondence would only > provide the number. Of course I know nothing about the management of > cemeteries and am just looking at it from an information management > perspective. > > Regards, > Mark. > FreeBMD-Admins mailing list - archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/freebmd-admins > FreeBMD http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message