Hi, thanks to those who responded to my "test" as to whether my 1st Wenner submission was received by the list. The consensus seems to be that it didn't get to the list so I will send it again. Forgive me if some of you did receive it the first time. Thank you, Ann It is as follows: I am new to this list and have just recently come across some important clues to my gggrandparents, Louis and Lena (aka Madeline) Wenner, of NYC. I am trying to prove that Lena Wenner was Magdalena KLUMPP before her marriage. All evidence points to this but I've still not found a document giving her maiden name. I saw at my FHC that some films (Groom's/Bride Index films) which may have her children's marriages listed are on indefinite loan at the Pompano Beach FHC. Because another List friend has offered to get these documents for me (should I be able to provide her with certificates numbers) in NYC on Sept. 7, I would like to know if anyone would be going to the Pompano Beach FHC soon and mind doing one or a few (whichever number you wish) lookups for me. My local FHC will not get these films in time for me to give her this information. And, although the FHC in Orange County where my sister-in-law lives also has some of the films, that center is closed until after Labor Day! I live in New Orleans and would be happy to do research in turn for someone willing to help me in FL. If I can find a record providing Madeline's maiden name and it turns out to be KLUMPP, a very kind gentleman in SLC (using the Orsippenbuch of Lauf, Baden) has provided me with Madeline's ancestry into the late 1600's/early 1700's from LAUF, Germany! He and I both feel all evidence so far points to the KLUMPP name. If anyone cares to do this I hope the following explains what I need. I've provided some history first so if you don't want to read the rest hit that Delete button :) and thank you all for taking the patience to read this! And if you know of any living WENNER'S who could be descendants of this family, I would so appreciate your sharing this info with them. Please have them contact me as I have other info I can share with them on this family. First, Louis Wenner (the immigrant-my gggrandfather) and his wife Lena (my gggrm-probably Magdalena, aka Madeline, hopefully Klumpp) had 6 children, some of whom I have a month and year of birth. I will be approximating their year of marriage based on their year of birth and on (some of whom's children's ages I have) the age of what appears to be their first child from various records I've obtained thus far. 1) George, prob. born 1868/69. In 1920 census, taken in January, in Bronx, married to a Josephine. Children: Roger, 25-prob. b. 27 Jul 1893(SSI); died Feb 1975 Arthur, 20 Elsie, 17 Grace, 12-prob. b. 20 Dec. 1907(SSI); died May 1980 1948 letter states he had 5 children, no mention of in 1920 census, where both parents are 51 years old. MY GUESS ON YEARS OF MARRIAGE: 1888-1894 2)Fredrika (aka Ricker) b. 1870/71, died abt. 1936 1948 letter states: married to George Pousson, had 3 children: George, prob. b. 8 Aug 1892( from Soc. Security Index); died June 1980(SSI) Elizabeth, prob. b. 23 Nov 1890(SSI); died Feb. 1981(SSI) Elsie,prob.b. 11 Dec 1894(SSI), died Dec. 1976 or b. 31 Aug. 1901(SSI); died Jul 1975; married to Jack Glasser; have daughter Dorothy In 1948 son George lived with Elizabeth in NYC MY GUESS MARR. YEARS: 1888-1890 3)Louis, my ggrandfather, b. abt. 1881/2; married to Jennie Pauline McCall in SC. Louis (editor/publisher of Gulfport, MS newspaper), as the family legend goes went "north" (I don't believe my grandmother knew where -she was oldest and 12 at the time) to either bring money to someone or obtain money. He was never heard from again. Since he was supposedly a family man with 3 children and one born while on this journey, it's always been suspected that he was murdered somewhere along the way. I don't even know if it was before or after reaching his destination. 4)Bernhard (aka Ben) b. 1873-75 (due to conflict in records); married to Annie, both deceased by 1948; had 2 children, both married by 1948 and living in NYC MY GUESS MARR. YEARS: 1893-1898 5)Theodore (Ted) b. prob. Apr. 1878/79; married to Emma Daughter, Viola, prob. b. 1906/07; died abt. 1944 GUESS OF MARR.:1898-1906 6)Charles, prob. b. July 1882; married to Ida; Daughter, Madeline, 13 or 14 in 1920 census GUESS OF MARR.: 1901-03 FILMS TO LOOK AT: 1) Film 1324912, item 1; Index to deaths Manhattan 1888-1894, Brooklyn 1895, Manhattan 1895. . Names are arranged by year, then month, then alphabetically within each year. 1888-1894 is alphabetical only by first letter of surname, then arranged by date. In this look for WENNER (possibly WeRner), Madeline or Magdalena, or Lena Look in 1888 and 1889 for Manhattan (Louis remarried Augusta Pousson in 1889) So first it appears you must go to 1888, look at each month, under W. Once you get to W's, it doesn't appear that it will be aphabetical by 2nd letter of surname because it is then arranged by date of death. If you find it I would need borough, death certificate number, spelling of name, anything else pertinent to get death certificate. 2)Film 1523078; GROOM Index for 1887-1890 A-V, 1887-1888 W, 1889 W-Wilsnack Looking for WENNER, George to Josephine Looking for POUSSON, George to Fredrika Wenner. 3)Film 1523079; Groom index 1889 Wilson-Wz, 1887-90 Y-Z, 1891-93 A-Z, 1894- 1895A WENNER, George to Josephine WENNER, Bernhard (Ben) to Annie POUSSON, George to Fredrika 4)Film 1523080; GROOM index for 1895 Reckleff-Rz, 1896 R, 1894-96 S-Z; 1897-1899 A-L, 1897 McAdam-Mysicka, WENNER, George to Josephine WENNER, Bernhard to Annie. 5)Film 1523114: 1898-1899 Malynda-Myerson, 1897-1899 N-Z, 1900-1902 A-Engel, Abe WENNER, Bernhard (Ben) to Annie WENNER, Theodore (Ted) to Emma WENNER, Charles to Ida 6) Film 1523115; 1902 Engel, Char- Ez; 1900-1902 F-Zahn, Louis WENNER, Bernhard to Annie WENNER, Theodore to Emma WENNER, Charles to Ida 7)Film 1530370; 1905 Merrel-Mu, 1903-1905 N-Z, 1906-1908 A-D, etc. WENNER, Bernhard to Annie WENNER, Theodore to Emma WENNER, Charles to Ida 8)Film 1379090; BRIDE card Index 1889 Washington-Z, 1890-1892 A-Z, 1893 A- Dyer WENNER, Fredrika to George Pousson for 1889, maybe early (like January 1890) as well. 9)Film 1522995; Groom card Index for 1866-1868 A-Z; 1869-1871 A-Q; 1869-1870 R You will be looking for July 1869 or Aug 1869 for Ludwig (or Louis) WENNER to Magdalena (Madeline, Lena, hopefully Klumpp). The First German Presbyterian record has them married in Aug. 27, 1869 AND baptizing a child Aug. 29, 1869 I hope I haven't totally confused you. And thank you in advance if anyone is able to help me. Again, I would be happy to help you in exchange. Sincerely, Ann