On 26 March I posted this message to the list: Dear List Members: Here is a question for everybody. I am sitting here in Hobart after 18 months of family history research - & lots of fun - wondering how far back it is possible to get in Ireland. With definite records, I mean. So far my earliest record (from a 1868 death certificate in the state of Victoria, Australia) says that the deceased Bridget COLLINS FLANNERY was 80 years old and born in County Clare. It also names her parents Michael COLLINS and Bridget DONNELLAN. So they must have both been born after 1760 and before 1780 or so. So far as a place is concerned the earliest record I have is an entry in the baptism register of the parish of Quin, County Clare for Michael GARVEY in 1828. Now that should not be too hard to beat. I am just curious because I haven't met anyone else who has definite records as early as this. Do tell. Or is this a question we should not ask? Now, I have had several replies and I thought you might like to see these, so I asked the senders if I could send them to the list and they have agreed. Here they are, in no particular order: 1. mwalter@EARTHLINK.NET said: "Earliest records I have are church records from Carland Parish from 1770." 2. Dorothy Howes <dori@sunline.net> saod: "I am researching MARTIN's in County Antrim. I have a gggrandfather born 1801, christened in 1814. His father b. 1752, marr. 1777. All this information was learned from the microfiche at my local FHC." 3.Ellen Naliboff <enaliboff@home.com> said: "I have an 1810 marriage record in Swinford parish, Co Mayo. Co Louth has some records for 1790s which are very difficult to read and in the indexing project there are several families of the surname which I have not sorted out. The Spinning Wheel Entitlement of 1796 yielded one name in Co Sligo and the Religious Census of 1749 another in Sligo. I have been incredibly lucky! 4. "James O'Neall" <oneallj@ncn.net> said: Fortunatly my family - O'Neill - is one of the oldest traceable families in Europe. However saying that one needs to consider that most state records were lost in Ireland in the late 1700's or early 1800's and so what my family has depended upon are the writings of "THE FOUR MASTERS" and "HEREMONS GENEOLOGIES" Heremon was the first king of Ireland and the O'Neills as well as many other families of Ireland are descended from him and his brothers. Ireland High King - the 1st - ruled1698 to 1668 BC Heremon the seventh son of Milesius and Tea (pronounced Cha) and the third and youngest son to have a family. It was he who led the invasion of Ireland and became the first High King. From Heremon were descended the High Kings, Kings, Nobility, and gentry of Connaught, Dairiada, Leinster, Meath, Orghialla, Ossory, of Scotland since the fifth century, of Ulster since the fourth century. Heremon refused to allow the Picts to settle in Ulster. He did allow them to take Tiata De Dancan widows as their wives and from Scotland to pay tribute to the High KingHeremon the seventh son of Milesius and Tea (pronounced Cha) and the third and youngest son to have a family. It was he who led the invasion of Ireland and became the first High King. >From Heremon were descended the High Kings, Kings, Nobility, and gentry of Connaught, Dairiada, Leinster, Meath, Orghialla, Ossory, of Scotland since the fifth century, of Ulster since the fourth century. Heremon refused to allow the Picts to settle in Ulster. He did allow them to take Tiata De Dancan widows as their wives and from Scotland to pay tribute to the High King. The above information was recorded in "HEREMONS GENEALOGIES" Now one has to remember that history is not always an exact science so dates and events are somewhat obscure due to the changing of calendars and methods of recording time. Fortunatly much work has been done on my family roots it is more interesting to me in gathering the many generations of the American O'Neill/O'Neall families. My ancestor arrived in the Americas in 1730." I then asked him about his direct links to this ancient pedigree and he replied: "As far as proving the connection to this line - WELL!!!!! My ancestor Hugh O'Neill came to America in 1730, married Anne Cox and had seven sons and one daughter. To date I have made connection with descendants of four of those eight children. All of these families have been separated for most of these years since the late 1700's early 1800's and it has really been fun exchanging information. One bit of information that has been common to us all is the recounting of our ancestors arrival in this country and his place of birth. He passed on to his children this story and each branch thusfar has recorded the same story: as a mid-shipman on a British Man-O-War, Hugh was anchored on the Deleware River and not liking his berth he deserted over the side of the ship at midnight and swam to shore. Once ashore he changed the spelling of his name (from O'Neill to O'Neall) making the name appear English, to avoid being detected by the British forces as an Irish deserter. He told his children he was the son of Brian John O'Neill of Shanes Castle, County Antrim, Ireland. This is the Clannaboy O'Neill's. His father died when Hugh was very young and an older brother came home from France to take over the estates, his name was John ( Shane An Franca) O'Neill. This John died in 1732. In a pedigree housed in the Dublin Castle Brian John O'Neill's children are listed as John, Henry, Hugh and Sarah. Much is known of John, Henry and Sarah but nothing of Hugh. It is commonly considered by Irish historians and genealogists that this Hugh left home at an early age never to return. This we feel is our connection, but as far as difinitive proof, there is non. We are at this time still attempting to establish our Hugh as the son of Brian John O'Neill. Some of our American O'Nealls attend the O'Neill international Clan gatherings in County Antrim each time they are held presenting what documentation we have to prove our connection. At this point it is still under study. So to our way of thinking we are connected, However any O'Neill/O'Neall of any spelling is descended from Heremon, or so the Four Masters Claim. Constantly searching for the past!!!" I hope the list enjoyed and was educated by these discussions. I certainly was. Thank you. Maria marmarbarandl@trump.net.au