In a message dated 98-05-31 11:55:30 EDT, you write: << To: FIANNA-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <006c01bd8cb4$ebd74ec0$8d71440c@hpcustomer> Subject: Re: [FIANNA-L] Fw: common given names Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Early on I learned that an Irish tradition in naming patterns is as follows: first son for the father's father; second son for the mother's father; first daughter for the father's mother; second daughter for the mother's mother; third son for the father; third daughter for the mother; fourth son for the father's oldest brother, there's more but I don't have a reference in front of me >> I found the info on the Irish naming pattern from another list. It goes as follows: 1st son.....father's father 2nd son.....mother's father 3rd son.....father 4th son.....father's oldest brother 5th son.....mother's oldest brother or father's 2nd oldest brother 1st daughter...father's mother 2nd daughter...mother's mother 3rd daughter...mother 4th daughter...mother's oldest sister 5th daughter...father's oldest sister or mother's 2nd oldest sister Sometimes the 4th and 5th step was not always observed. Also, the pattern often broke down when you had the father's and mother's parents having the same name. For example, in my family, the oldest son was presumably named after his paternal grandfather. The second son however, could not be named after the maternal grandfather because he would have had the same name as his brother. But at least, it's a start in trying to solve the family puzzle. Good luck. Janice