Hello Dee and Y'All Golders ! I too am very interested in the Picts, who they were , where they came from; what their language was like to listen to, and what sort of Music they played and sang to. When you think about it ....they were "The Caledonians " to the Romans, and early in the Roman Invasion , The Picts were just about the only " Bunch" who challenged them. As I understand it, the Britons from further South, had already " thrown ion the towel", and in fact a lot fought on the side of the Romans.Notice I used "Bunch" , not "Tribe " or "Clan", since from what I read , "The Picts" were a conglomeration of separate , and Independent tribes. I would like to see a whole lot more research done into Pictish History....because, lets face it , there must be MILLIONS of us today, who are descended from them. I would like to be able to do a study of :- Facial Characteristics; traditional songs/music; and "traditions", as they are today, in the areas known to once have been Pictish...."Old habits die hard " , don't they reckon ? EXAMPLE:- The West Country way of saying "Yes", or "is that right ?"....."Oh arrgh !".....I wonder how many thousands of years that has drifted over ? I just did a Google on the line :- Pictish Family and Placenames to be found in Scotland today".....all sorts came up......which I hav'nt taken the time to read (yet !)...The two Sites which came up under Wikipedia seem to contain many "References " which , being Highlighted in blue, are " Searchable". Look forward to reading more comments on this subject , when your time and energy allow ! Cheers the 'noo n'all, Bruce Graham -----Original Message----- From: Dee Byster-Graham via Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:43 PM To: 'DSA2003' ; [email protected] Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Hi Folks, Thank you all so much for this discussion of the origin complexities of Pictish, and all related to this area. The whole subject has puzzled me for many years - language, physical appearance, origins etc. For what it is worth, I have always leaned towards the idea that Pictish language was an ancient form of Q-Celtic mainly because of the Ogham script. Is the former belief still in vogue that the Picts invaded Britain at an indefinable time in pre-history? I have not read much about their origins lately, but still puzzling over the real difference in the physical characteristics of my Scottish Mitchells. Despite being descended on the male side from the Norman invaders in 1066 ( Vikings) the differences are huge - small all around 5- 5ft 2ins in height, slight builds, almost black eyes and hair with very fair skin, small feet and hands etc. So different in appearance from the Orkney Viking SNOW family of Ireland and the original Irish of the Dolan, Magauran clans. Also puzzle about the role the ancient Britons played, we must all have that genetic in our makeups! Were in fact the Picts ancient Britons in residence from pre-Neolithic times??? Please keep the conversation going - it's absolutely fascinating! David, thank you also for the interesting links to the newly discovered Viking sites in America - that may very well put a lot of cats amongst the pigeons :) Kindly, Dee. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DSA2003 via Sent: Friday, 1 April 2016 10:40 AM To: Janet Cassidy Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Sigurd Towrie has a useful article on his Orkneyjar website on the subject. < http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/picts/language.htm > Although it’s not settled beyond doubt, it’s generally thought that the Pictish language is Celtic. As Sigurd’s article points out the the Pictish writing system originated in Ireland. David From: Janet Cassidy Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:18 AM To: DSA2003 Cc: [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? Is it thought that the Picts spoke a Celtic language? Janet Sent from my iPad On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:00 PM, DSA2003 <[email protected]> wrote: G’day Janet The Picts who were the inhabitants of Orkney before the Vikings, are generally regarded as a Celtic people. But who were the people who built the Ness of Brodgar Temple, the village of Skara Brae etc, some 5,000 years ago ago is not known. However, the point I was trying to make yesterday with my reference to the Ness of Brodgar and the “origins of the Irish” article, was that new archaeological research is up-ending previous ideas as to direction in which culture flowed in ancient times. Previously, it was taken as a given that things developed in the Mediterranean and moved northwards through Europe. But now we’re seeing that there were great goings-on in the north-west of Europe in prehistoric times and the cultural influences were moving southwards. One line of speculation for the demise of the Ness of Brodgar temple is the advent of the Bronze Age leading to the centre of political/religious power moving south, closer to the sources of tin (Cornwall) and copper (Cork and Kerry) which are needed to make bronze. Back to the Vikings: there is news today that what appears to be another Viking site has been found in Newfoundland, several hundred miles further south from L’Anse aux Meadows which was discovered in the 1960s. < http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/ > < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/science/vikings-archaeology-north-america-newfoundland.html?_r=0 > David Armstrong Maylands Western Australia From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 12:49 AM To: DSA2003 ; [email protected] ; Marge in SoCal Subject: Re: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? LOVE reading about the stuff on Orkney. I was just there this past September. Unfortunately the excavation at Ness of Brodgar was closed for the season, so I'll just have to go back! However the Orkney islanders are/were not Celts. They never spoke a Celtic language. Instead they were influenced by Vikings and Picts. Janet C This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ========================= https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ========================= https://www.facebook.com/groups/FermanaghGold/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dee, Glad no one is thinking this little side-trip into Pictland is off topic. :-) Here's what I just read on the orkneyjar link that David sent: " Theories abound, although these days it is generally accepted that the Picts were not, as was once believed, a new race, but were simply the descendents of the indigenous Iron Age people of northern Scotland." Also here http://www.ancient.eu/picts/ says "Although it was accepted history in the past to date the arrival of the Picts in Scotland to sometime shortly before their mention in Roman history, or to claim a "Pictish Invasion", modern scholarship offers a much earlier date with no full-scale invasion. According to the/Collins Encyclopedia of Scotland/, "the Picts did not 'arrive' - in a sense they had always been there, for they were the descendants of the first people to inhabit what eventually became Scotland" (775). Historian Stuart McHardy supports this claim,***writing <http://www.ancient.eu/writing/>**that "the Picts were in fact the indigenous population of this part of the world" by the time the Romans arrived in Britain (32). They originally came from**Scythia <http://www.ancient.eu/scythia/>***(Scandinavia), settled first in Orkney, and then migrated south." I bet Cunliffe's book _Britain Begins_ would shed light. Janet C On 4/1/16 5:06 PM, Bruce Graham wrote: > -----Original Message----- From: Dee Byster-Graham via > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:43 PM > To: 'DSA2003' ; [email protected] > Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Fwd: Origins of the Irish -- not Celtic? > > Hi Folks, > > Thank you all so much for this discussion of the origin complexities > of Pictish, and all related to this area. > The whole subject has puzzled me for many years - language, physical > appearance, origins etc. > For what it is worth, I have always leaned towards the idea that > Pictish language was an ancient form of Q-Celtic mainly because of the > Ogham script. Is the former belief still in vogue that the Picts > invaded Britain at an indefinable time in pre-history? I have not read > much about their origins lately, but still puzzling over the real > difference in the physical characteristics of my Scottish Mitchells. > Despite being descended on the male side from the Norman invaders in > 1066 ( Vikings) the differences are huge - small all around 5- 5ft > 2ins in height, slight builds, almost black eyes and hair with very > fair skin, small feet and hands etc. So different in appearance from > the Orkney Viking SNOW family of Ireland and the original Irish of the > Dolan, Magauran clans. > > Also puzzle about the role the ancient Britons played, we must all > have that genetic in our makeups! > Were in fact the Picts ancient Britons in residence from pre-Neolithic > times??? > > Please keep the conversation going - it's absolutely fascinating! > > David, thank you also for the interesting links to the newly > discovered Viking sites in America - that may very well put a lot of > cats amongst the pigeons :) > Kindly, > Dee.