OK, so what is FMP? I'm a wee bit slow today... Thanks, Cliff. On Saturday, March 7, 2015 11:32 AM, Dave H via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> wrote: FMP is free this w/end so a quick search in Alumini Dublinensis will get all the Armstrongs (or whoever!) that attended there... Just do a Print Screen of them for future use. DH On 07/03/2015 16:04, Soopy46 via wrote: > Hmmm I find this very interesting. You state "Geelong West" Is that > Australia? Because my Copelands went there. And Armstrong was my gg grandmothers > maiden name... > > Haven't been around here for awhile..BUT always looking!!!! lol > > Sue in NY ================================== https://www.google.ie/ ================================== http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Dee. Appreciate the input. Best wishes, Ian -----Original Message----- From: Dee Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 10:10 AM To: 'Ian Gammage' ; fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com ; 'Dave H' Subject: RE: FERMANAGH-GOLD Parishes Hi Ian and Dave, Understanding the importance of Religion in searching for ancestors in Ireland is something we do need to emphasise. The situation here is a sad reminder to we Aussies of the early days of our country, particularly in relation to RC and Protestant convicts and early settlers. There were simply none or very few priests or ministers in the early colony until about the 1850's when the situation eased somewhat. By that time, an entire generation (or two if they were first fleet convicts) were born who had no religious instruction except fragments their parents recalled from earlier years in their home countries. Many did not know, or could not remember. In convict times Catholic priests were banned initially, being considered as likely to incite rebellion within the convict ranks. Much of our early documentation does not mention religion at all; having no convict ancestors I am lucky in that our family holds the same religion our great-grandparents brought with them from Ireland, and they arrived in 1862. It sure made my Fermanagh search that much easier. Had they arrived in an earlier time we may never have known their beliefs, if any! Kindly, Dee.

Thanks Dave. I am not wanting to ignore religion. I just have not been able to confirm what religion they are. I did know they were Protestant. Thank you for the additional data of which I was not aware. Best wishes, Ian -----Original Message----- From: Dave H via Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 10:03 AM To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Parishes He would have been United Church of England and Ireland when in Ireland, the Church of Ireland didn't exist until 1870's.. Disestablishment! Religion may not be a key on documents in Australia and neither is it in Ireland!!! Religion IS a key factor when looking for RELIGIOUS records worldwide!! As in Church Marriages etc.... and Yes the Maynes were members of United Church of England and Ireland and their Monument is in a United Church of England and Ireland graveyard in what is NOW a Church of Ireland graveyard... You can of course ignore their religion if you want and walk around every graveyard in Monaghan, but if I was looking for them I wouldn't waste my time walking around RC g/yards in Monaghan because I'd know their RELIGION!!! Arthur Mayne certainly did NOT change his Religion.... DH On 06/03/2015 22:39, Ian Gammage wrote: > Yes understand about religion being critical in Ireland, Dave. However, > religion is not often included in key documents in Australia. Mostly > with mine I don't know the religion. It can change too. Arthur Mayne, > for example, appears as Church of England in Australia though I would > guess he was probably Church of Ireland when in Ireland. > > It is not ignored. Often religion is just not known. > > Cheers, Ian

Found whilst looking for Janet's Thomas McCaffrey. Carole. The Sydney Morning Herald : 20 September 1932 p.7. NEXT OF KIN WANTED of MARY QUIGLEY (nee McCaffrey) late of Drumbargy Belnaleek, County Fermanagh Ireland, who died 9th February 1899. Send notice to J W HANRAHAN Clerk of the Crown and Peace _ Enniskillen, Ireland

Pity he didn't live in present times with all the health products and low fat diets he could have lived to a ripe old age!! :-)) DH On 07/03/2015 09:24, CARELL via wrote: > Robin Armstrong, - a respectable old millwright, residing at Clabby, > near Ballinamallard, died recently in his hundred and sixth year. > At his funeral in Clabby graveyard, some of the fifth generation > of his offspring were present.

Yes understand about religion being critical in Ireland, Dave. However, religion is not often included in key documents in Australia. Mostly with mine I don't know the religion. It can change too. Arthur Mayne, for example, appears as Church of England in Australia though I would guess he was probably Church of Ireland when in Ireland. It is not ignored. Often religion is just not known. Cheers, Ian -----Original Message----- From: Dave H via Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 9:22 AM To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Parishes Well it's been said over and over and over again RELIGION is the key but people still totally ignore it in their posts!!!! People won't read the advice given in posts!! How is one to advise anyone as to best possible location/church/graveyard when people just can't be bothered including the RELIGION of whoever they're looking for????? RELIGION is key for finding certain records in Ireland!

Hi Ian and Dave, Understanding the importance of Religion in searching for ancestors in Ireland is something we do need to emphasise. The situation here is a sad reminder to we Aussies of the early days of our country, particularly in relation to RC and Protestant convicts and early settlers. There were simply none or very few priests or ministers in the early colony until about the 1850's when the situation eased somewhat. By that time, an entire generation (or two if they were first fleet convicts) were born who had no religious instruction except fragments their parents recalled from earlier years in their home countries. Many did not know, or could not remember. In convict times Catholic priests were banned initially, being considered as likely to incite rebellion within the convict ranks. Much of our early documentation does not mention religion at all; having no convict ancestors I am lucky in that our family holds the same religion our great-grandparents brought with them from Ireland, and they arrived in 1862. It sure made my Fermanagh search that much easier. Had they arrived in an earlier time we may never have known their beliefs, if any! Kindly, Dee. -----Original Message----- From: fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:fermanagh-gold-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ian Gammage via Sent: Saturday, 7 March 2015 8:39 AM To: Dave H; fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Parishes Yes understand about religion being critical in Ireland, Dave. However, religion is not often included in key documents in Australia. Mostly with mine I don't know the religion. It can change too. Arthur Mayne, for example, appears as Church of England in Australia though I would guess he was probably Church of Ireland when in Ireland. It is not ignored. Often religion is just not known. Cheers, Ian -----Original Message----- From: Dave H via Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 9:22 AM To: fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD Parishes Well it's been said over and over and over again RELIGION is the key but people still totally ignore it in their posts!!!! People won't read the advice given in posts!! How is one to advise anyone as to best possible location/church/graveyard when people just can't be bothered including the RELIGION of whoever they're looking for????? RELIGION is key for finding certain records in Ireland! ================================== https://www.google.ie/ ================================== http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dee, did you ever decide where tour Dolans came from?? I was looking through all my photos taken years ago and there is a triple plot for Dolans at the C Of I at Drumreilly... In Co. Leitrim BUT in walking distance of Magauran's Castle in Co. Cavan.. Do you have names/dates from more recent times?? It's just a photo showing 3 g/stones in same plot, some is legible some is not as it was just a general snapshot so not on IGP. Dave On 07/03/2015 02:08, Dee wrote: > Yes, this particular practice was used for many years in penal times. > I like your description of 'neutralisation', very apt. > > Life was horrible for the convicts, but no less sad for the families they > left behind who were forced into near starvation in many cases, with fathers > and husbands actively encouraged to partner convict females in the Colony > and forget their original wives. > > Dee.

Janet According to Nsw state records there is a convict named Thomas McCaffrey tried in Donegal 1793. Arrived on Brittania II Also 2 others pre 1860 arrivals. Most immigrations I could could see on ancestry were post 1860. Select Surname Firstname Age Ship Year Arriving Remarks Copy MCCAFFREY Thomas 35 Escort 1858 Sydney and/or Newcastle Reel 2138, [4/4795]; Reel 2477, [4/4974] MCCAFFREY Thomas 35 Mangerton 1855 Sydney and/or Newcastle and family Reel 2137, [4/4792]; Reel 2471, [4/4952] By the way, I have been researching the convicts transported on Hercules II in 1830 from Fermanagh that were involved in the Macken fight. There is a Patrick McCaffrey b 1809. This is the same ship my three CASSIDY brothers (Thomas, Phillip and Edward) were transported on. Their trial was on the same day as the fight at Macken. I suspect there might be a connection. There is a reference to a Patrick Cassidy being possibly involved at Macken but I can't seem to find out any more about him. http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch Veronica

For a lot of them they were given a ticket home but didn't have the strength for the journey... By the time they did they had missed the boat. Some sent tickets home for their family but family couldn't be found, some wives married again to survive. I wonder what percentage actually came home. But even with all this they would have known their religion and followed that after release in many cases and, as such, a sign of what religion they were in Ireland. Dave On 07/03/2015 02:08, Dee wrote: > Yes, this particular practice was used for many years in penal times. > I like your description of 'neutralisation', very apt. > > Life was horrible for the convicts, but no less sad for the families they > left behind who were forced into near starvation in many cases, with fathers > and husbands actively encouraged to partner convict females in the Colony > and forget their original wives. > > Dee.

We all need something to live for! On 07/03/2015 01:58, Dee via wrote: > Oh dear! > All this talk of yummy choccy biccies. > And I gave up chocolate for Lent. > > Dee:)

http://cdn.bbcmagazinesbristol.com/bbcwhodoyouthinkyouare/bonus_content/issue_66/5_Co_Fermanagh_Teachers_1826_27.pdf Co. Fermanagh Teachers......1826. Parishes - Clones, Drumkrin, Galloon, Bohoe, Cleenish, Killassher, Belleek, Drumkeeran, Magheraculmoney, Devenish, Innis Mac Saint, Rossory, Trory, Aghavea, Aghalurcher, Derrybrush, Derryvullen, Enniskillen, Enniskillen and part of Tempo, Magheracross, Tomregan....all spellings as listed. Carole.

You'd be amazed what one has to do on FG to actually get a choc biccie.. and not just a promise of one!! Anyway I'm looking at the Pedigree on http://www.scribd.com/doc/75988391/Sedborough-Mayne-of-Ireland 100's of names so you can see how hard it would be to find one of them among that lot.. photos of their little cottages in Ireland too. You're only back to 1614 but the other Pedigrees should get them back in time in England. Surely yours is among that lot!! One "heavy duty" family even in Oz!! Dave On 07/03/2015 00:34, Ian Gammage wrote: > > Glad they gave you Choc Biccies. I have some in the fridge too. > > Cheers, Ian

Plenty of stuff on line for them, for example http://www.scribd.com/doc/79225901/The-Echlin-Erskine-Sinclair-Mayne-families-of-Ireland

It's at Drumsnat g/yard.. could be one at Aghadrumsee too and I think Tyholland. This is them here.. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Aughnamallagh_House,_Monaghan_-_geograph.org.uk_-_897268.jpg On 06/03/2015 23:47, Killyfole and District Development Association via wrote: > Ian, > > The reason I ask is that name is one that came into the Clones Civil Parish > area during the plantation. > > In 1614, 1000 acres was granted to John Sedborough. In 1629 to was bequeathed > to his daughter Barbara and husband John Mayne. The estate was based in an > area called "Mount Mount Sedborough" but that name has since died out > (although a local lough retains the name) and reverted to the older, probably > the original name of Rateen or Golan. > > The family have a plot in Magheraveely - http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/photos/tombstones/fermanagh-magheraveely/target55.html > > But something makes me think there is a vault in St Marks, Aghadrumsee which > is associated with them too (Id need to check this) > > Do any of these names jump out at you? > > Clive > > On Saturday 07 March 2015 09:39:22 Ian Gammage via wrote: >> Yes understand about religion being critical in Ireland, Dave. However, >> religion is not often included in key documents in Australia. Mostly with >> mine I don't know the religion. It can change too. Arthur Mayne, for >> example, appears as Church of England in Australia though I would guess he >> was probably Church of Ireland when in Ireland. >> >> It is not ignored. Often religion is just not known. >> >> Cheers, Ian > > ================================== > > https://www.google.ie/ > ================================== > http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/placenames/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to FERMANAGH-GOLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Anything on these pages and ANY PHOTOGRAPHS on internet sites are my intellectual property. You are free to copy and to redistribute UNMODIFIED copies for non-commercial purposes without restriction from me, provided consent has been requested AND granted! Small quotations ("fair use") should include a citation that includes reference to URL to which I have contributed and to which I claim shared copyright to under the 90 year rule. Any other use should be consistent with normal international copyright law! Those with some legal expertise may wish to examine the extensive Copyright Law Materials from the Legal Information Institute of the Cornell Law School.

Well I spend half my summers in Monaghan.. in Aughnamallagh and the Maynes owned Aughnamallagh House where I spent time in the Kitchen now and then... (at least I got choc biccies there!!!) :-)) They attended St Patrick's C of Ireland.. which used to be St Patrick's United Church of England and Ireland. On 06/03/2015 23:23, Ian Gammage wrote: > Thanks Dave. I am not wanting to ignore religion. I just have not been > able to confirm what religion they are. I did know they were Protestant. > > Thank you for the additional data of which I was not aware. > > Best wishes, Ian

I fully understand that Dee but a lot did follow their religion/beliefs down the generations through their families, in that "they knew" they were RC in Ireland despite all the efforts to "neutralize" them... Great program on recently about Port Arthur including how those in solitary couldn't even see anyone but the Priest/Minister when at church. Certainly there are many many people looking for kin in Ireland not just on FG around same time as yours and in vast amount their Religion would be known yet the Religion is omitted on posts.. Dave. On 06/03/2015 23:10, Dee wrote: > In convict times Catholic priests were banned initially, being considered as > likely to incite rebellion within the convict ranks. > Much of our early documentation does not mention religion at all; having no > convict ancestors I am lucky in that our family holds the same religion our > great-grandparents brought with them from Ireland, and they arrived in 1862. > It sure made my Fermanagh search that much easier. > Had they arrived in an earlier time we may never have known their beliefs, > if any! > > Kindly, > Dee.

Ian, The reason I ask is that name is one that came into the Clones Civil Parish area during the plantation. In 1614, 1000 acres was granted to John Sedborough. In 1629 to was bequeathed to his daughter Barbara and husband John Mayne. The estate was based in an area called "Mount Mount Sedborough" but that name has since died out (although a local lough retains the name) and reverted to the older, probably the original name of Rateen or Golan. The family have a plot in Magheraveely - http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/photos/tombstones/fermanagh-magheraveely/target55.html But something makes me think there is a vault in St Marks, Aghadrumsee which is associated with them too (Id need to check this) Do any of these names jump out at you? Clive On Saturday 07 March 2015 09:39:22 Ian Gammage via wrote: > Yes understand about religion being critical in Ireland, Dave. However, > religion is not often included in key documents in Australia. Mostly with > mine I don't know the religion. It can change too. Arthur Mayne, for > example, appears as Church of England in Australia though I would guess he > was probably Church of Ireland when in Ireland. > > It is not ignored. Often religion is just not known. > > Cheers, Ian

One place I reckon where they might be found in Alumni Dublinensis.. they were "well to do" as in Ministers, Doctors, Lawyers etc... and it's free at the moment on FMP. On 06/03/2015 22:44, Killyfole and District Development Association via wrote: > Do you know where your Arthur Mayne came from? Any family stories about them?

He would have been United Church of England and Ireland when in Ireland, the Church of Ireland didn't exist until 1870's.. Disestablishment! Religion may not be a key on documents in Australia and neither is it in Ireland!!! Religion IS a key factor when looking for RELIGIOUS records worldwide!! As in Church Marriages etc.... and Yes the Maynes were members of United Church of England and Ireland and their Monument is in a United Church of England and Ireland graveyard in what is NOW a Church of Ireland graveyard... You can of course ignore their religion if you want and walk around every graveyard in Monaghan, but if I was looking for them I wouldn't waste my time walking around RC g/yards in Monaghan because I'd know their RELIGION!!! Arthur Mayne certainly did NOT change his Religion.... DH On 06/03/2015 22:39, Ian Gammage wrote: > Yes understand about religion being critical in Ireland, Dave. However, > religion is not often included in key documents in Australia. Mostly > with mine I don't know the religion. It can change too. Arthur Mayne, > for example, appears as Church of England in Australia though I would > guess he was probably Church of Ireland when in Ireland. > > It is not ignored. Often religion is just not known. > > Cheers, Ian