Mcgaghran and Dolans in same cemetery... http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/leitrim/photos/tombstones/leitrim-carrickatemple/index.html Dolans, Leitrim... http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=13812782&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&query=Dolan&s=leitrimstones DH On 09/03/2015 21:32, Dee Byster-Graham via wrote: > Dave, > > > > Astonished at the numbers of DOLANS there were in Leitrim! > > Had a quick look at records yesterday after new PC installed (Windows 8.1 > character-building!) The main area of Dolan/Magauran activity takes in > Leitram east, Cavan north, and Fermanagh south (approx.). One could draw a > wide circle around those boundaries within the three Counties and find them. > > > > Similar situation to the Border Reevers who controlled both side of the > border - a new way for me to look at Irish families. > > > > Dee. >

Ahhhh. up and running again!! Yes there would be a lot.. Magauran Castle is on side of lake in Co.Cavan BUT the south and West shore of the lake is the county line between Cavan and Leitrim so if you are in a boat on lake you are in Cavan..go ashore there and you are in Leitrim. You were looking for Magaurans with Dolans and you know they used to have a bit of fun with each other, marrying each other, shooting each other etc in the area around the Castle and that some went to Fermanagh. So, Drumreilly C of I g/yard would be nearest church to there and some RC Dolans are buried there. I put some Drumreilly pics on IGP but doubtful if triple plot was one of them as it's not clear enough to transcribe but one stone goes back to 1700's with names/dates on another fairly recent. Again you'll need to be careful because there is a Drumreily Barony and a Drumreilly Barony and these are not one and same!! Simple. :-)) Ballyconnell even has a Magauran.. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/cavan/photos/tombstones/cavan-ballyconnell-coi/target18.html I don't read stones just point camera and click when passing, so only saw it when I got home. The Castle, I reckon, is the homeplace!! (as starting point!). If only you knew of a fisherman in Co. Leitrim who goes around all the lakes in the area..... not much chance of that!! :-)) Dave. On 09/03/2015 21:32, Dee Byster-Graham via wrote: > Dave, > > > > Astonished at the numbers of DOLANS there were in Leitrim! > > Had a quick look at records yesterday after new PC installed (Windows 8.1 > character-building!) The main area of Dolan/Magauran activity takes in > Leitram east, Cavan north, and Fermanagh south (approx.). One could draw a > wide circle around those boundaries within the three Counties and find them. > > > > Similar situation to the Border Reevers who controlled both side of the > border - a new way for me to look at Irish families. > > > > Dee.

G’day Wendy Many thanks for your email. I’m still researching the adventures of my step-father’s first wife, Antonia Lyon-Smith, (1925-2010) in Occupied France during WWII. There is a mention in her MI5 file from an interrogation of Waldemar Lenz, a member of the Gestapo’s Sonderkommando Rote Kapelle, that “an uncle was the Governor of the Bahamas”, so I was looking at her ancestry in order to identify him. She didn’t have such an uncle, and I’ve worked out that the “uncle” belonged to the famous author P.G. Wodehouse, who as part of his conditions as a paroled civilian internee was reporting once a week to the police, the “police station” being the Gestapo at the Rue des Saussaies in Paris. (Wodehouse’s wife was arrested one night for being out after curfew, but instead of being taken to the lock-up, was escorted back to her hotel because the German patrol commander was a Wodehouse fan!) There were several English speakers in the Sonderkommando and so I worked out that there must have been at least one general conversation between Antonia, Wodehouse, Lenz and other English speakers, during which the “uncle” (actually a third cousin) was mentioned by Wodehouse and which was misattributed two years later by Lenz to Antonia. However, in researching Antonia’s ancestry, I’ve come across several trees on-line (no rants please Dave H!) which show that Antonia’s ancestry in North America is extremely interesting and apart from Isaac Hellmuth, includes: General Thomas Evans (1776-1863) who served with Isaac Brock and married into the Ogden loyalist family, one member of whom was Peter Skene Ogden. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Evans_(British_Army_officer) > < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Skene_Ogden > Henry John Boulton < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_John_Boulton > The on-line trees suggest that Antonia’s is descended from Wall Street Dutch, the Spanish Netherlands and early (1640s) colonists of Massachuesttts. What I’m doing now, is fleshing out the documentation to prove the validity of these family trees and prove the connections as there is no one tree on-line that connects the Hellmuth, Evans, Boulton, Ogden families etc, so that I can make reference to it in my proposed book. The unindexed LDS “non-catholic” collection of OPRs for Quebec is helping out here, which is what I was doing last night when I found the Fermanagh stray, as in the 1850s Isaac Hellmuth was the Incumbent of the CofE&I parish of Sherbrooke in Quebec. Regards David Armstrong Maylands Western Australia From: wendy stevenson via Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 12:21 AM To: Dave H ; fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD To David Armstrong David, you mentioned Isaac Hellmuth, who became Bishop of Huron in your post. His family is of London Ontario. What exactly are you looking for? Wendy On Monday, March 9, 2015, Dave H via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> wrote: > On 09/03/2015 12:24, DSA2003 via wrote: > > (Given the discussion about changing religion earlier today, I thought > I’d add that the Incumbent of this parish for whose family I’m searching, > was Isaac Hellmuth, a Polish Jew who converted to the Church of England and > Ireland, and ended his career as Bishop of Huron). > > > > > > David Armstrong > > > > Maylands > > Western Australia --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

A few months ago, I felt I had come to a dead end looking for non-existent Irish records of my direct line ancestors. I still search for them, but realise what I already have, is probably all or at least most of, what I will ever expect to find. My Fermanagh people were not well off or people of standing. On one side, I have my gg grandparents marriage record + 8 out of their 10 children's baptism records. Because I know both of my gg grandparents would have had brothers & sisters, I am now researching other families with the same surnames, who either lived in the same townland or within a few miles radius. I do this, because I don't know who the siblings are. But I do know with 100% certainty, that they existed. Whilst I have not made any real connections yet, it has certainly been very interesting, seeing evidence of family lines in Fermanagh moving between townlands, marrying their neighbours (& cousins) and immigrating to the US/Canada/Australia/NZ with other family members or their friends who lived close by. I am now going back through shipping records etc.to see who else was on that ship. It is amazing how many other people I have found on these lists, who now turn out to be possibly related in some form or another. I often add these people to my tree, but still with no obvious connection to my validated ancestors in it. I also then research & add their parents, their siblings, their children and so on. I guess I hope that one day in the future, I will find someone else, who has that one bit of info, that can validate a connection. When I visited Fermanagh last year & took quite a few gravestone pictures, I did not just photograph those with my family name. Little did I realise back then, that the graves of some of the others that I took, have now made their way into my tree. Names like Gray/Grey, Wilson, Morris etc. People who married into my main research surname, via the siblings &/or cousins of who I hope to validate as my kin. I just need to find out how they are all related. It takes a lot of time and effort, and I may find down the track, that they are not even related. This post is really just about saying, that I think it is worthwhile to search outside the square, and like DH says, add these groups somewhere. Because I am sure sometime in the future, a line will connect, somewhere.

The same was true in the US. In the "early days" (1600s --1750s) RCs were rare (and discriminated against) , at least outside of Maryland and the Spanish-settled areas (California, Mexico, Florida) and Catholic priests even rarer, so RC immigrants went wherever they could, or got married or had children baptised by the traveling "circuit rider" minister. That's why in Ireland I have found it unusual for Cassidys _not_ to be RC, but in the U.S., especially in the South, there are many who are Protestant. After a generation or two, it was unlikely the family would change back. Janet C. On 3/9/15 11:55 PM, Allan & Kathy Lowe wrote: > i Bonnie > > You’re right! In Canada, in the earliest days of the 1800s, the only church for Protestants was the C of E in the main town, so everyone went into town for marriages and baptisms in that church and everyone was officially C of E. By mid-century, smaller Methodist churches had been built in the smaller towns, so people could be married and baptised closer to home, and many Protestants in Canada were reportedly Methodist. In subsequent decades, other Protestant groups started building churches of their own and Protestant Canadians reported more diverse religious affiliations. > > Kathy

Certainly is confusing as my Methodist married in Presbyterian in Toronto but thankfully because of write up on early Methodism in Canada I found the baptism of child, so they returned to religion they were in Ireland. http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/oldies.htm and links is where I found mine. DH On 10/03/2015 03:55, Allan & Kathy Lowe via wrote: > Hi Bonnie > > You’re right! In Canada, in the earliest days of the 1800s, the only church for Protestants was the C of E in the main town, so everyone went into town for marriages and baptisms in that church and everyone was officially C of E. By mid-century, smaller Methodist churches had been built in the smaller towns, so people could be married and baptised closer to home, and many Protestants in Canada were reportedly Methodist. In subsequent decades, other Protestant groups started building churches of their own and Protestant Canadians reported more diverse religious affiliations. > > Kathy

Dave, I totally agree with everything that you are saying. I think I worded the last paragraph in my post incorrectly. The problem with ancestry is, that with their 2 week free access periods, people start a tree, who then just copy info from other trees, and then it is copied again and again and again by others doing the same. These people don't research at all, they just copy others info, which more than often has been copied as well. I have seen trees with the only source or citation in it, being another ancestry tree. It is ridiculous. My tree is private also, and just like you, there is no way in the world that I will ever put it up for public view on ancestry either. I don't want all my hard work & research, plus the $100's ($1000's) of paid for BDM records taken from my tree without my knowledge or approval. If I share something like a purchased BDM with someone, I always ask them not to upload onto a public tree, unless the info is freely available on the internet or elsewhere. What I meant before, is why would one put up a tree with incorrect information to learn info, when it just contributes to all the other ridiculous trees that are there already. I guess I did not realise that comments made on the list, were about making a *private* tree to learn from. I wrongly interpreted that it was advice given to build public trees with that info. All the family members at the top of my tree are theory. They are theory because there are no records I have found yet to prove them. That is another reason why my tree is private. I don't want my theory people to be copied by others, because I don't even know they exist !!

Dave, Astonished at the numbers of DOLANS there were in Leitrim! Had a quick look at records yesterday after new PC installed (Windows 8.1 character-building!) The main area of Dolan/Magauran activity takes in Leitram east, Cavan north, and Fermanagh south (approx.). One could draw a wide circle around those boundaries within the three Counties and find them. Similar situation to the Border Reevers who controlled both side of the border - a new way for me to look at Irish families. Dee.

People should remember that The Belfast Newsletter was first published as a broadsheet giving names of people who had migrated and had managed to get letters back with a passing ship mid Atlantic. It would also carry notices like seeking information on so and so last heard of in Lurgan. If anyone knows him tell him to contact his parents. I just don't remember when it was first published but over the years it became The Newsletter, because it spread out throughout the six counties. Now it is just called Newsletter and is THE paper in which most Deaths are published daily. The Belfast Telegraph is annother Daily Newspaper and is quite different from The Daily Telegraph which is annother paper published daily. All those papers carried new from abroad gleaned from overseas publications in Australia, New Zealand and in america. We have all seen notices saying something like "Local papers please copy" when announcing an event. Viola --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

One has to be like a cat burglar, if front door is firmly shut look for another point of entry..... On 09/03/2015 22:53, Christina Hunt via wrote: > This is the way to go. > I am also researching people who were witnesses at Baptisms and Marriages.

This is what I've been advising for years... if at a g/yard researching the X family then take heaps of photographs because further down the road you may find they married the Y family... So one gets to a brick wall attacking the X family and gets stuck but often by researching the Y family one often rediscovers the X family popping up somewhere.. You now have photos 'of use' without having to go back to g/yard. Many go..take their 3 photos and walk off... only to make new discoveries later. In Monaghan one day I took over 450 photos as everything is closed, records can't be got etc.. now I go back through them instead of having to go back and look for a g/stone. Some are on IGP which I check first, then go through sticks etc to see if I have a g/stone on them, new discoveries made only last week via photos. I just go around snapping everything then onto next g/yard then look at them when I get home...and then again when needed. DH On 09/03/2015 22:32, Robyn Ritchie via wrote: > When I visited Fermanagh last year & took quite a few gravestone pictures, I > did not just photograph those with my family name. > Little did I realise back then, that the graves of some of the others that I > took, have now made their way into my tree. Names like Gray/Grey, Wilson, > Morris etc. > People who married into my main research surname, via the siblings &/or > cousins of who I hope to validate as my kin. I just need to find out how > they are all related.

exactly my piont Dee, forget about counties!! On 09/03/2015 21:32, Dee Byster-Graham via wrote: > Dave, > > > > Astonished at the numbers of DOLANS there were in Leitrim! > > Had a quick look at records yesterday after new PC installed (Windows 8.1 > character-building!) The main area of Dolan/Magauran activity takes in > Leitram east, Cavan north, and Fermanagh south (approx.). One could draw a > wide circle around those boundaries within the three Counties and find them. > > > > Similar situation to the Border Reevers who controlled both side of the > border - a new way for me to look at Irish families. > > > > Dee. > > >

My First Post for many (many) months. FMP - I really hate this website, and let my sub lapse in Jan this year, because I felt I did not get any value from it, and also that the FMP website is very hard to circumnavigate sometimes.. And I thought I was tech savy. BUT. They recently released Australian NSW Wills from the 1800's to around 1950's. To get a transcription agent in NSW Australia, to obtain a copy of a will, costs $A 40.00 minimum for one (1) will. Unless you can get to the NSW records office yourself in Western Sydney - which is located in the middle of nowhere, to look & copy the record yourself. So for the price of what it would me to obtain copies of 5 or 6 wills, I actually can obtain unlimited copies of wills in all my family lines, for a much less cost, by subscribing to a sub to FMP. This I see as good value. FMP also have some great UK Parish records, that one can download, from scans of original registers. I have not delved into their Irish records that much, because I agree, many are available free from other sites. But as much as I hate FMP, I have certainly found & downloaded records that ARE NOT AVAILABLE elsewhere - free or paid for, and found the value to be good. FG Listers need to evaluate what their requirements are and what they hope to achieve in their subscription, before out laying the $$$ to FMP. ANCESTRY - I also keep my sub, because sometimes, I actually find some pretty serious researchers who may or may not have a connection to some of my family lines. I have contacted a few people via the ancestry.com message system; those who are serious in their research have replied. Those who are not, have not replied. It sorts outs the people who are genuinely interested in their research. It's not a huge deal. On MANY occasions, I see ancestry trees that are copied from others, and again and again. With no research done, no records and no citations. And also with incorrect info. I don't bother to try and correct someone with 50,000 in their tree. BUT sometimes I come across others, where people are ultra generous, who have done the hard yards and share everything. And it has helped me break a wall or add something to my own lines. Whilst we all appear to be guarded, me also included, it is those trees where people who have done the hard yards and have *shared* freely, that we all learn something to help us out on our own. I so often read on this list, that some lister's just build imaginative trees to try and learn * hints * for their own trees, but aren't willing to put their own trees public online, so others can learn from them. At the end of the day, I still don't get it.

and moved a lot!! On 09/03/2015 21:37, Viola Wiggins via wrote: > Members of the Police or military in Ireland were often only listed in the Census records with their initials, age, county of birth, religion and occupation prior to enlisting. > Viola.

On 09/03/2015 10:54, Robyn Ritchie via wrote: > I so often read on this list, that some lister's just build imaginative > trees to try and learn * hints * for their own trees, but aren't willing to > put their own trees public online, so others can learn from them. > At the end of the day, I still don't get it. On 09/03/2015 DAVE REPLIES: Build using guesstimates if you are stuck at a brick wall and think POSSIBLES might be related! Stick them together as a unit!! Keep it PRIVATE because it is not true and you don't need it copied. Look for Hints for these as part of a unit.. prove/disprove theory!! Put them on tree to get more accurate Hints as the Search looks for them as associated names and one gets LESS but MORE ACCURATE HINTS!! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SHARING OR NOT SHARING. It is Private, probably inaccurate, and can't cause any harm as no one can copy it and make it something it is not! It is a responsible way of doing it instead of doing it as Public tree! Instead of being stuck with a few individuals put them as a unit and see what shows up, that's all! BUT I am still unwilling to put my trees public online, so others can learn from them.... which translates to ROBS THEM! DISTORTS THEM OR BASTARDIZES THEM!!!!!

There was two Catherine Johnstons listed in Killesher in 1901 census. One in Carrigan, working for Wm Strathearn, aged 49 Married, but husband not present. And one in Croaghram, widow, aged 86 her unmarried two sons are with her BUT A William Johnston, 45, wife Elizabeth 45, daughter Kathleen, 10, and son John James aged 7 Also step children named CRAWFORD Thomas, 22, Robert 19. Anne Jane 17. And Elizabeth aged 14. All Ch of I. In 1911 Johnston Wm, Elizabeth, Kathleen and John are living in house 16 Croaghrim. Md 20 yrs 2 born and both alive. No sign of the Step children, but they could have moved to another area. If people fall off the Radar, search for death, marriage if female, or migration. Remember Members of the Police or military in Ireland were often only listed in the Census records with their initials, age, county of birth, religion and occupation prior to enlisting. Viola.

Yes and it was my advice to start a PRIVATE tree using guesstimates etc! Why? Because if one does, then clicks on the leaf at CENTRE of a person's PROFILE page they get much more accurate hints! Simply because the search might be of that person BUT with the associated names of parents, siblings etc that one does not get by just searching by an individual name. It runs with associated names on tree!! DH On 09/03/2015 20:40, Robyn Ritchie wrote: > I guess I did not realise that comments made on the list, were about making > a*private* tree to learn from.

On 09/03/2015 20:40, Robyn Ritchie wrote: > What I meant before, is why would one put up a tree with incorrect > information to learn info, when it just contributes to all the other > ridiculous trees that are there already On 09/03/2015 Dave replies: Simple... they put their bits up hoping someone contacts them to give them their genealogy instead of doing it themselves!!! Like everyone.. I had to one that got away! No Ancestry hints..nothing. Then I found him, got Will of father in law on PRONI, went to Library for their Ancestry and newspapers, got them all up to mid 1900's (4 generations) including all the kid's marriages. kids, Census, Phone Books, newspaper items... source after source after source... then stuck them on my Ancestry tree where I got a pile of Hints (after putting them in!)... One was of a tree where they stuck their snippet up to be discovered, no sources just the bit they knew!! Now they are waiting for someone to contact them to give them stuff as they are certainly not searching!! If they were they'd get a Hint for each person from my Private tree!!! With Ancestry... one should get a choice of searching only trees with sources!

Hi Bonnie You’re right! In Canada, in the earliest days of the 1800s, the only church for Protestants was the C of E in the main town, so everyone went into town for marriages and baptisms in that church and everyone was officially C of E. By mid-century, smaller Methodist churches had been built in the smaller towns, so people could be married and baptised closer to home, and many Protestants in Canada were reportedly Methodist. In subsequent decades, other Protestant groups started building churches of their own and Protestant Canadians reported more diverse religious affiliations. Kathy From: Bonnie Anderson Sent: Monday, March 9, 2015 12:48 PM To: Allan & Kathy Lowe ; FER-GOLD Subject: Re: FERMANAGH-GOLD religion Something to consider in areas of early Ontario (Canada West, then Upper Canada) where settlement was just opening up, the priority was to clear the land of trees, build a log cabin and a shelter for farm animals to protect them from the cold winters; building a church would come later. The nearest church was a long distance away with bad roads to get there. So when the itinerant Methodist ministers, aka "circuit riders" came by it provided the opportunity to baptise the children and marry the couples. Some might have stayed Methodist, some might have eventually return to their original church. --- Just a thought. Bonnie Anderson Kitchener PS: My Irish people arrived in Canada in 1850. By 1853, they had acquired land in the newly surveyed township of Artemesia in Grey County. Coincidentally, the area has the headwaters of a number of rivers, so the land is very marshy. An Irish friend told me "If anyone could, a Fermanagh man could farm it." On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Allan & Kathy Lowe via <fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hi Dave I suppose that rural Ontario was far enough away - though it was the original Protestants who emigrated! Thanks for the info. Kathy

Recorded at C of I.... but even my Methodists records are in C of I, births/baptisms of kids, burials etc as the C of I was the only state recognised Church record keeper. On 09/03/2015 20:34, Margot Jorgensen via wrote: > Although I have been unable to prove a connection between "my" Armstrongs > living in the townland of Lisrace during the early 1800's, baptized in the C of I Clones, and very clearly > recorded as Methodists in Canada after 1842